SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

IUH

Craig is right. How are you supposed to move away and leave your jobs??? That is not the answer.

IUH. Remorse is a very difficult thing to measure.Right now there is no way to tell if she is afraid the end is REALLY near, or if she truly is sorry. However, there is not much time left and you need a consistant pattern of behavior.

It appears she has no intention of leaving for the Canadian since once she did sign the papers she could have told you she was spending the week end with him and there would have been nothing you could do that you already had not done.

The big thing now is does she want to be with you or is she scared of being alone.

I have suggested it before, but you CAN ANSWERall of your questions for $450 with a lie detector test. If she is truly remorseful and REALLY wants to be with you and is telling you the truth, she should be MORE than willing to do that now. Especially if she is acknowledging she understands how terrible she has been.

I would simply tell her YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE SHE IS TELLING YOU EVERYTHING ABOUT THE ENTIRE THING , and that she over the last three months has given you no reason to believe anything. i strongly believe that if she passes the test that you will be able to then be interested in MC to try to find out why.

She has no reason or right to be resentful for you to be asking for that. I know if you believe that it will be easier for you to start to head to where there can be some trust.

[This message edited by Badhurt at 1:10 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)]

I understand you have a hard time believing her, so many lies, but isn't this the second time something like this has happened.

I feel for you brother. I hope things get better for you soon.

IUH

I have followed this thread from the beginning, but this is my first post on it. Your comment that your WW said that she wanted to move away struck a chord with me. Prior to DD1, my WW burst into the room and said that we had to sell our home and move out. My response was WTF are you talking about, and with that she was gone out of the room. I chalked it up to her being frustrated with the continual upkeep required with a 150 year old house. It turns out that OM was a local cop in our small town.

Your WW's comment may suggest a different OM is more local than Canadian OM, or your WW suspects that your neighbors are aware of her A.

IUH, you pretty much have this D process and the fate of this M under your control. You also seem to have your emotions in check and under control as well, so much so that I think you have the strength to do what I'm going to suggest.

Engage in a conversation with her, but do all of the listening up front. Ask her to give reasons why she would want the both of you to move away and start over. I think the truth in situation is in that conversation waiting to come to surface. Grab a pen and paper. If it helps, also bring your VAR and hide it nearby to record this conversation. Now, when she lists off reasons to move and stay in the M, you write those down. Verbally repeat those points in summary while writing it down. Have her expand on each of the reasons by asking "why do you think/feel/see it that way?" This will validate to her that you are listening, but pay attention to what she is saying and write down anything that grabs your attention. The trick here is to listen, not argue our counter any of her points (no matter how ridiculous she may may sound) but record, record, record. When she is done, THEN go back over those points with her. It's now her turn to hear your perspective on each point and expand on them if necessary. At the end of this conversation when you look over those notes you may be able to see a pattern emerging from her thoughts.

Now, the hardest part in all of this is to show no emotion at all while you listen. She will be gauging your reaction and adjusting her words accordingly. If she can't gauge you, the reasons and the story will change.

The end result is to have her feel safe enough to tell you the truth, without her feeling you will use that against her. Whether you feel the truth actually does have any affect on your decision to stay the course is entirely up to you. But you do deserve the truth and you have her practically begging you for another chance. She may either show remorse or regret, but there is a clear motivation behind her wanting to stay in it and I think you have a chance to find out what that motivation may be. No matter what, you still have your requirements of her that she needs to meet.

After all, there's plenty of time between now and D being official. Might as well make something of it.

Your WW's comment may suggest a different OM is more local than Canadian OM,

Her comments certainly do look like that. That was my first thought also.

It is impossible to play human lie detector every day, it really wears a person down.

I think a polygraph is needed, or at least the threat of one.

I can see no logical reason to quit jobs and move away.

That doesn't mean all comments have to be logical though.

Disagree. She may be mixed up now, but I don't think she's a player like that. Moving is a fantasy that everything will be just fine if only they'd move away from the scene of her unhappiness. Not realistic, but an understandable thought. That house is a "trigger" for her. Besides, I think IUH proved himself a pretty good detective and would have seen signs of a local A.

His problem isn't the house, its what is his W's true state of mind re the marriage.

I need time, if I were married to anyone else I'd be gone, I want to see him naked, ILYBIDLY, I want you, I don't know...... enough to drive a sane man mad.

It is hard to give advice to you - you have done little wrong since the beginning. I am unclear about one thing: what is she still lying about? Are there still gaps between what she says and what you know?

I'm not sure if she is lying anymore (don't think she is).

We have always talked about moving, way before this started. The move would be to get closer to my family actually and both of our friends. I'm still not really considering this, mainly because i don't think our relationship can ultimately survive everything she has done. But I'm keeping my ears open and listening to what she is saying now.

IUH

it is obvious from what you have just said and in the last few posts that it may be true that she has done too much damage to you to want to be with her anymore. That cannot be denied, especially with what you have listened to her say in her own words.

The question to me is not is she lying now, probably not. But there have been a lot of lies in the past few months.

I am guessing you could get a job if you moved. Not sure if her being around her friends would be so comforting to me. One of her friends played a major role somehow in all of this, either as the instigator or the wing man.

You are doing right by listening, AND STAYING ALERT. it appears she has a tough road to deal with getting you to want to be with her after what she has done. no one to blame for that but herself, and don't make any excuses for her.

She did it all.

I think you might need to have a serious talk now. Yes, another one. Not sure if you want to mention the VAR. But I think you need to ask her what was so special about this guy. Heck, maybe I would tell her about the VAR. At this point it doesn't really matter much. Tell her you heard her breakup with the POS and how she was begging for more time. How he was saying that it's over because she hasn't divorced her husband. That's a really damaging conversation. She said some horrible things. I guess at this point I would tell her that you heard them. And then ask her, why you should believe what she's saying now? Why you shouldn't just leave her for her POS, since obviously that's what she wanted.

I don't know IU. I'm at a loss. I never thought this would happen to you. I thought you were doing things right. I thought she would wake up. I can't believe she lost her marriage for this nonsense in Mexico.

Finally, I think you need to ask yourself, do you still love her, want her? Ultimately, what matters most is what YOU want. She wants to stay. You've got a lot of leverage. You can make her do 50 pushups a day, or whatever you want right now. The question you need to answer is, do you want her.

Keep listening and remember what else you heard. Any explanation from her? Back and forth and back and forth......

Those who have reconciled are in general happy they have done so. So it's a good goal. But why is she talking the talk of remorse now when the game is almost over.?

I initially thought the idea of lie detector was absurd. But now I'm not so sure it is. Without truth, you'll never know if any R is genuine or false.

Tell her what you know? Not yet. Just gives her time to fabricate her reasons....I felt bad telling OM it was over....I was just venting to gf's..etc.

It's time for her to lay her cards on the table. Tell her you are having extreme difficulty deciding what to do because of not only what she almost did, but because of her being hot and cold on reconciliation. How can I know you will be happy with our marriage next month or the next time some,stud wants to give you more Than the time of day? Listen to her answer. This isn't about moving, this is about two people staying married in good and bad times.

You've known her a long time and should be,able,to get a read on the situation with her. If you think you want to stay married it's worth a try. The polygraph,,she must understand,,is so you don't torture yourself,with doubt. If she passes, fine. If not, your case,will proceed. If equivocal, that's the problem.

[This message edited by Schadenfreude at 10:18 PM, July 9th (Wednesday)]

IUH

Interesting new post in Reconciled about lie detectors. Mostly from the WS perspective. I think you may want to read it. First time I've seen multiple responses about lie detectors that just didn't say there was a parking lot confession immediately before the test. These are mostly from WS's who had told the whole truth and the test confirmed to BS.

IUH

Read that thread that was just suggested to you about lie detector. It helped the BS believe. And the other important thing is that the WS was anxious and willing to do it because they were telling the truth.

I believe if you could know what she is telling you was the truth on a lot of things it would help you either way.

Mike suggested disclosing the VAR . That's a tough one because if you do it won't work again, but it is getting to point as he said it might now matter. It might help her understand why you can't believe her after hearing what you have heard.

She might better understand why you are asking for lie detector test.

Can't see any other way you can believe the whole story and forgive what she has done:

Hi IUH, how did the weekend go?

IUH

Just bumping

Hope you are still out there and are Ok

Weekend was good. She tells me how sorry she is everyday now and has started to ask if there is anything she can do for me almost every day.

She purchased a bunch of books the other day for her to read and a few that we can read together about affairs and marriage. I read one already, "how to love", but didn't tell her I read it. I want to see if she will read all of these without me first to see what her dedication looks like.

IUH

That sounds good. But the thing I am concerned about for you is that all of this change occurred AFTER her Canadian boyfriend and her had a falling out. Of course, she does not know you heard all of that on VAR.

What it all books down to is how YOU feel about:

(1) believing her timeline and that nothing more happened

(2) that you are NOT Plan B

(3) that she LOVES you and is committed to you, or this will happen again.

Nothing new on VAR I am guessing in discussions with gf.

It is going to be a long time before you can trust her if you decide to stay married to her. You need to make that clear to her so she does not think everything is back to normal. The new normal is that she lied, cheated, and put you through hell and she will have to put up with whatever you need to feel safe and cannot resent it or feel trapped.

She is still friends with her wing woman on this and girls trips anywhere should be off the radar for a long time

Buying books is a good sign. Actually reading, them, though would be a better one. Has she asked to go to MC again? Would you go if she asks?

Has she discussed her variable attitudes about you and being married to you yet?

She had told me a hundred times ow she has no idea why she was so undecided about our relationship after 9 years. She says she doesn't have any explanation other than she completely screwed up and wants to work things out and figure out what/how it happened.