SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hey I finally figured out how to use quotes :)

Mpb I get your point. But I can tell you the other BS's pain is the LAST thing on their mind..

You say this as if forgetting that I am a BS and I know what the pain of a BS is all too well. Believe it or not, the other BS's pain WAS on my mind, and was certainly not last.

mindbody:

I related to a lot in your post, about differing levels of A pain and how one can feel like they were disregarded by more than just their spouse. Thanks for sharing.

Mpb- yay on quotes!! Took me forever...

What if someone lost their job after having an affair because someone turned them in, directly impacting family. Who's to blame then?

Here's what it boils down to mpb:

As long as you take the position that others should behave as you do, you are going to be disappointed and stuck. By your logic, I did not cut off anyone while driving, therefore, I shouldn't have been cut off. I did not break into anyone's car and steal their Ipod in their front yard, therefore, mine should not have been stolen. I didn't molest children so I shouldn't have been molested. I did not call the OWs house phone or email her husband therefore, he shouldn't have called mine or emailed me. This is life with other humans. People don't always act the way you do or even have the same moral perspective. Sometimes, it hurts you.

When people wrong someone, sometimes innocent people get hurt. It's not a vendetta against you, personally. When a murderer murders, the family often has to hear the vitriol directed at the murderer. Your wife injured her and she lashed out at your wife. You were collateral damage just as I was. You have the right to be hurt by that. You get to make the decision as to how you proceed.

1. You can call the betrayed wife and tell her that her behavior hurt you. She might apologize. She might tell you that your wife deserved it and you should be mad at her for inviting it. She might just say "screw you".

2. You can realize that your wife took a lot of risks concerning how you would be affected and proceeded anyway knowing there was risk that you would deal with: possible STDs, possible vitriol from a betrayed spouse, possible violence from a betrayed spouse, finding her injured or dead body after her attempted suicide. You can focus on how you move forward from that and whether or not your wife is a healthy person for you to be with.

3. You can let it go and focus on either repairing your marriage or getting out of it.

4. You can stay stuck mad at a person who was also collateral damage of your wife and her husband's selfishness but who chose to do something about it rather than self-examine and consider. To me, this is the least productive of all your options because it doesn't help you heal and instead keeps you focused on the wrong.

5. You can walk around holier-than-thou because you took the high road but then you have to do it every single time or you don't get to keep that attitude. Ever cut someone off who did nothing to you? Nope, no holier-than-thou attitude for you.

I'm sorry that the betrayed wife's actions hurt you just as I'm sorry that your wife's actions hurt you. Sometimes, it sucks to be human.

rachelc

What if someone lost their job after having an affair because someone turned them in, directly impacting family. Who's to blame then?

I'm not sure I understand your question entirely, in that I'm not sure how someone could be turned into their employer for having an A, although I assume that such a scenario exists if there was a policy on the matter. I would say that the person turning in the WS would have played a significant part in the hardships that were to follow for the innocent family, yes.

Tearsoflove:

I agree with a lot of what you say in your post and acknowledge that I will have to grow up and accept that this was how BS chose to respond, while maintaining respect for her privacy in the future. I do take exception to one passage in particular however:

5. You can walk around holier-than-thou because you took the high road but then you have to do it every single time or you don't get to keep that attitude. Ever cut someone off who did nothing to you? Nope, no holier-than-thou attitude for you.

I'm not using my lack of invasiveness post-discovery as a way of elevating myself above the BS ethically. I am saying I wish she would have left us alone as I left them alone. It's not meant to be self righteous. Imagine being picked on at school and responding by saying that you are in pain and wished everyone would just leave you alone, as you are not bothering them. I see nothing sanctimonious about that.

[This message edited by mpb1974 at 3:45 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)]

My apologies, mpb. My last comment was meant to be humorous. I wish jokes conveyed better in text. I was picturing the soup nazi on Seinfeld saying "No soup for you." I guess I could have used an emoticon to try to convey it but I really just don't like them much. I have often been in trouble for something coming out differently in text than I intended. I should know better but sometimes I still think I can pull it off.

[This message edited by Tearsoflove at 4:07 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)]

Mpb- you are a person of great empathy. I really wish you well on your journey of reconciliation and I hope your pain is kept to a minimum...

Honestly...I hate to go here, but I really think for the most part that this is a gender issue.

This woman reacted out of pain and love. Very emotional as most of us women are. Because, well we are from Venus. She is a woman. She is different. She is going to act different.

You are a male. You do feel. You are in pain. You are emotional. But, are you as emotional as she is? Do you focus on something else entirely? Like Respect perhaps. Your issue is about the respect she lacked for you at the expense of her pain.

Is she justified? Is she right? Are you right?

No, she isn't justified to hurt you too. But,s he probably never thought she was.

You can argue on here forever about this. Everyone reacts differently. She reacted to her loss of love. You sound like you are reacting to your loss of respect. From your wife, from the BS.

Yes, it sucks that you AGAIN was an after thought to another human being when it came to the BS getting want she wanted. To vent.

Yeah, you wanted to do the same thing. But refrained. Thinking on a linear time line. She vented. How was she to know you were never going to react the same way? She took the first move. How could she give you the same courtesy after she made the first move?

I understand it hurts to be dragged through not only your pain, but the other BS pain as well. But, I bet a big part is...she really didn't think it would cause you pain to vent on WW. Honestly, if I did that to my fWH AP...it never would have occurred to me that her BF would have been upset too.

I did vent. I sent her a private FB msg and a personal letter. I talked to her face to face. I did notify her BF months after the affair ended. When my rage subsided. I was very gentle and reassured him of the positive things that his WGF said about him. But, children also did play a big part. She had a 9yr old daughter, that I didn't want to hurt as well as her BF.

You bring up her posts about building her husband up. Well, I can honestly say that while my husband was in the dog house big time and I couldn't even stand to say "I love you". I posted crap like that all the time on FB. Why? To show the OW that she didn't wreck my world. Even if my world was wrecked. Because, I guarantee the woman was finding ways to FB stalk me and how my M was going. (She had a manipulative new BFF girl boss) That was my way of throwing it in her face that she lost. We are fine. My husband loves me. Even when the sight of my fWH at the time disgusted me.

Would you have been okay if she sent your WW a private letter instead?

[This message edited by hopefulmother at 10:06 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)]

As an after thought...you are right.

A lot has to do with her being a mother. Just think about her being and reacting like a mother bear. Does a lone bear often attack a hiker? Usually not. What we do see is a mother bear attacking...even chasing (when hikers aren't even threatening their young) a hiker. I think there is another level of rage that overcomes mothers that are cheated on. Mama bear instincts.

Is it right? Probably not. Maybe it is nature based. A chemical thing. A built in mechanism.

Just curious...but was your WW continuing to contact the OM during the BS backlash?

People are responsible for their actions. We can still have sympathy for their emotional state while holding them accountable.

Good point Stillgoing. We hold our WS for their actions, even when their actions were usually the case of the emotional pod person.

This is the R forum so there is so much we can say. I can say though I'd cross as many lines as I could legally if I could get my hands on the AP. And when I actually found out I was ready to cross even some illegal lines.

I can relate with what the BW did. I cannot relate with having an affair. And, yes - both the WS and the AP are responsible.

I do not believe in a Mystical Sisterhood of the Ya-Ya BS Pants.

If the other BS in your equation crosses your lines (addresses your children, your parents, your boss, calls your house, sends you mail -- I don't care what it is, it's *your* line. You can draw it wherever you want) -- then you can eat their fucking lunch just like you would your WS's (if you're so inclined).

There's that old saying "hurt people, hurt people". So do hurt dogs. You know what you do with a hurt dog that's hurting people?

You take it out and fucking shoot it.

(Not that I'm advising anyone to shoot anyone. It's a metaphor. Don't be stupid.)

My points:

1. Compassion is not a bottomless well. It's usually too shallow to cover all the sins of the WS, let alone some other, blundering stupid bint.

2. The way most of us keep from resorting to murder is that we have boundaries that protect us from the infringement of idiots -- even the emotionally distraught idiots who are so red-eyed that they're just breaking things to express their rage and pain (see point #1). Protecting yourself from unnecessary harm is the *point* of boundaries. Boundaries don't care who the idiots are (wife, uncle, neighbor, drowning swimmer, etc.), just that they be kept at arms' length before their stupidity hurts a bystander.

But don't take advice from me. If there'd been a BW in my situation, I'd have made a date to fuck her brains out and then hoped she gave me an STD to give back to my wife. That has a nice karma to it.

Unrelated: Did you know you can't buy vials of STDs anonymously via the internet?

Well, not the *legal* internet, anyway. Not any place you'd willingly put in your credit card number.

[This message edited by wincing_at_light at 10:36 PM, April 23rd (Wednesday)]

For the record: I'm impressed that you managed to muster up compassion for your wife's suicide attempt shortly after D-Day. Says good things about you.

Way back in the day, my biggest concern would have been how to make it look like an accident before the authorities arrived so I could get both the satisfaction of being free and have the insurance pay off.

I'd probably still be grouchy about the whole thing if I'd ended up with a dead cheating wife who had managed to cost me half a million dollars on her way out of the world on top of everything else.

(We're happily reconciled, btw.)

Now WAL is funny. I'm taking notes. I will get better at this...well, probably not.

You come across as a very measured guy.

I've read all 5 pages in one go - there was a lot to read so if this has already been asked and I missed it then I apologise.

You knew the other betrayed spouse. There had been a friendship there.

Why did you not phone or email her directly just once and make her aware of how her behaviour was affecting you?

It may have been all that was needed. None of us are perfect and sometimes - especially in the midst of trauma - we need to have things pointed out to us.

WOW...mpb1974.

I held back before posting a response. First, I do not, by choice, have children. Being childfree, does not affect how I choose to handle situations. If it did, both parties would have been murder victims because, I would have no children to be concerned about.

My decision as to how and when I responded to donkey's infringement into my life, was MY choice. By it willingly and with malice entering into an A with my H, whatever happened to its life well....

I must disagree that reactions are Mars vs. Venus. In my situation, I waited before I responded. My response was tactical and thought out.

Each person's journey is their own. Some BS have put a bullet in the AP and others may ignore the A all together. The spectrum is varied.

The point for us BS is to find healthy ways to heal. When I first discovered the A, healing was out of the question. I could only feel hurt and pain. I am sure that when BS contacted your W, it was during the time that she was experiencing shear pain.

mpb, it's been a year since the last contact. You are an empathetic person. Read some of the posts here and look at the progress that many of the betrayed spouses make in a year. Instead of having resentment toward the BW, pray that she and her children are healing too.

You're in pain and I'm sorry.

You are not the bad guy here (DUH!) and you do not deserve any of this even for a nanosecond.

So Hugs and Support all around.

However - gentle 2 x 4 - I think what people are trying to point out, that by focusing on the BW of the AP, you are doing the EXACT same thing as that BW - focusing on another person who is not responsible for your pain.

There is 1 person who owed you a duty - your WW. SHE broke that vow with AP. You can chose to hate AP or not (I personally think you have grounds) but your WW was the one that owed you a duty and broke it.

The shit storm that rained down after she did - including the AP's BW ill timed reaching out/lashing out - is all caused by your WW actions. She is responsible for the domino affect of her bad acts.

The suicide attempt was surely horrific for you - but I don't think it absolves your WW of being the person who caused your distress at the root of it. The BW contacting your family is just a ripple reaction to the rock your WW tossed into the pool of your marriage.

I regularly read but rarely post. I was having a hard time reading the amount of posts invalidating your feelings here (as any instruction to see things differently is). It seems there are quite a few defensiveness buttons being pushed, even as you are the one being accused of being defensive (see: Freud's projection). I believe your feelings are entirely valid mpb1974. It is a credit to you that you haven't acted on them and only supports what you have been arguing. Of course the other BS's feelings are also valid. It isn't surprising many BS's here can empathise with those feelings myself included. That people see those feelings as fair reason why she should not be held accountable for her actions (even mentally, as you are doing/feeling) is IMO wrong. You, as all victims of the hurtful actions of others, do not need to 'understand', to 'empathise', to 'see things differently', 'look elsewhere' because you have not/are not doing anything wrong. Let others hold those empathic feelings - the pained must attend only to their own. She, as all of us, is free to choose to act but not free of the consequences of that choice. For the other BS (or any BS) - expressing their rage to the person who has wounded them is a fair call - call the OP and read them their pedigree by all means. But to act carelessly toward those innocents surrounding an OP (be they adult or child) is not justified by the pain. When we are betrayed we tell our WS that regardless of what they felt at the time (dissatisfied, unappreciated, lonely etc.) they CHOSE to act in a selfish manner that considered only their own feelings, their own pain, their own whatever, and this is true. It is no less true for a BS. Anything else is hypocritical.

(Edited for clarity)

[This message edited by Akire at 7:07 PM, April 24th (Thursday)]

You, as all victims of the hurtful actions of others, do not need to 'understand', to 'empathise', to 'see things differently', 'look elsewhere' because you have not/are not doing anything wrong. Let others hold those empathic feelings - the pained must attend only to their own.

I was one who recommended cultivating empathy, because it is a productive way to move past the feelings of resentment, not because his feelings are wrong or misguided. It is very easy to get stuck in resentment.

This thread has been stuck in my head for two days and I may have to change my mind.

When you think about it, the BS's actions towards the WW employ the same mechanisms as those who embark on an affair - they can't handle their painful feelings so they act out, possibly hurting others, to make themselves feel better. The main impetus does not include anything else other than alleviating their own pain.

I have waxed on about people owning their shit, facing their feelings and not hurting other people. A wayward should move towards this. But shouldn't a BS also? I've said it doesn't really matter what happens to a person to get to that spot, they have a responsibility to act like an adult.

However, as SisterM pointed out - what this BS did really wasn't that bad - at least in my opinion. The WW in this case got an earful. And her BS was caught in the crossfire. Sure, there are a lot more grievous actions this hurting BS could have taken - shit my husband did something illegal. But those painful feelings that justified revenge - well that's just what it was - pure justification that "I get to hurt this person because they hurt me." When we justify our actions based on another person's actions, we're in a heap of trouble.

I would not feel as this OP does and of course that doesn't negate what he's going through. I would not be hurt, I would let my husband own it and take it. Nor do I think what this BS did was all that bad. But it IS a signal that she hasn't healed...

sorry, just ruminating - and WAL came out of retirement for this thread!

I have waxed on about people owning their shit, facing their feelings and not hurting other people. A wayward should move towards this. But shouldn't a BS also? I've said it doesn't really matter what happens to a person to get to that spot, they have a responsibility to act like an adult.

I basically agree that everyone should "own their own shit" including BSs who act out in pain. If that woman were on SI defending her right to be lashing out in extreme ways and having it spill over onto the rest of OW's family, I would probably give her a 2x4.

But the world is full of people who act out in pain and to some degree we do better to just accept it than to spend hours wishing someone we have no control over would own their own shit. I think it is a kind of a waste of energy for a BS to still be feeling so strongly about this situation A YEAR LATER. She has not contacted either him nor his wife for a year.