SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Waitedtoolong made a singular point: You can never unsee what you saw.

That's a bitch.

Don’t let alimony delay you from filling if that’s where this is going. Talk to a few lawyers and see what they recommend.

I am new to this forum.

Whatever you final decision of D or R, please consider the following:

1. Do not save the M for the kids sake. There is nothing more damaging to the kids than to be in a distrustful relationship which will eventually become toxic.

2. Do not save the M by holding on to the past memories of how happy both of you were in the early days of the M. That part of the marriage is lost forever with WW's cheating.You have just found out that WW is not the same person that you married and the mother of your kids.You are now in a new stage of the M after DD and you need to ask yourself if you want and can seriously be in this relationship with WW for the rest of your life.

3. You need to get a time line of the cheating. You need this for your own sanity, otherwise there will always be some nagging doubt on how long the PA, what they did, where they did it, who initiated it etc. I agree that she may not be telling the full story and this may not be her first PA. The speed at which this affair started indicates that she knew what she wanted and went for it. If you manage to get a timeline from WW, then a poly is good way to determine if she is telling the truth.

4. You need to explain to the kids the M problems you are having with WW minus the gory details. Kids are very perceptive and they know when things are not right. You will need to prepare them for the eventuality of a D.

5. If WW have to come back to the house, then full exposure to OBS and neighbors may provide some deterent to future hookups. But then again there is nothing stopping them going underground with their PA.

Whatever you decide, your future happiness is paramount. When you are happy, the kids can then be brought up in a safe and happy environment.

Wishing you all the best.

Matt, I've been thinking about you today.

I agree with your attitude of taking back your street, your neighborhood. Make yourself more visible. Be out and about with your normal neighborly interaction. You have every reason to be proud of yourself.

You taken important decisive steps at the outset. This will be a long game however so think in strategic terms (you've alluded to doing this a bit with the issue of her working and your close hold on this).

Keep assessing your long, strategic view and goals. That can be the thing by which you evaluate what you plan to do tactically. It slow you down a bit and moves you from a reactionary, emotion driven tactic, to one that is in the best interest of your strategic goals.

And it's ok if you see your goal changing in your mind. The strategic goal is the long game, the 50,000 foot view. Good to visit/revisit that from time to check it against your plans and the results your getting from them.

Ask yourself, "Is what I am planning to do get me to my ultimate goals? In what way? Is there an alternative? What do I know? What do I not know?"

If you divorce it's up to you with the house. People are speaking from their own experience when they say move. They would trigger in every room in the house. People have gotten rid of cars because OM sat in them. Burned mattresses... it's really up to what triggers you. If you are fine with it then stay and own the neighborhood.

I told her this morning that she needs to work enough to support herself, I know she can easily do it. She works one day a week, she only needs to work two more. She started to make excuses about the kids, etc. I told her it’s not negotiable. If she’s expecting a second chance, she needs to be able to provide for herself. I told her I need scanned proof of her pay stub to know she’s putting in the extra hours.

I'm appalled she would even try to argue this knowing you witnessed what she was doing in her spare time. She was spending it tearing those kids lives apart. I don't know how you could reconcile with her if she didn't work full time. It would be better for the kids to be in after-school care for a few hours than to give her that freedom back. I'm not saying this as a punishment for her or revenge for you. I'm just saying it will be hard for you to go to work everyday knowing she has the day off with that neighbor right across the street if she is staying home.

Matt, given these horrible circumstances, you are doing great. Kudos for being so swift and decisive.

Keep posting - this is a great place to receive support no matter what "phase" you are in when dealing with infidelity. We're here for you when you're up, down, in the middle...the whole shitty rollercoaster of emotions.

PISD (Post-Infidelity Stress Disorder) is a real thing; be mindful of its symptoms. Think about getting EMDR therapy in the future to help reduce the horror of what you saw (you can never "unsee" it, but it can become less debilitating to your soul).

I think that you are making the right decision at this point, Matt. Here's the thing - your M is dead. Period. Some people on this board have D'd and remarried after the WS did a complete and total turnaround (rare, but it happens). But for now, keep on the road that you're traveling, take care of YOU and your kidlets, and lean on friends, family and us.

Sending strength...

Lala

I met Dan’s wife this morning. Just as I thought, his version does not add up to my wife’s. Dan claims my wife was the aggressor. She made the initial coffee date and took the lead on sex. His reason for the affair was feeling lonely because his wife travels frequently. He told his wife that the affair was physical and he had no emotional attachment to my wife. He said they had sex every day, Monday to Friday except when the kids had off from school for holidays or I was home. I believe him over my wife’s 3-4 times a week.

Dan told his wife that he kept fucking my wife because it was easy and on demand. According to him, he’s my wife’s first affair. I don’t know how to believe that.

Dan’s wife wants to save their marriage. She doesn’t want to be alone or raise their kids alone. She believes that he hasn’t cheated before. She actually blamed herself a little bit for working as much as she does. She said he gave up his job to stay home with the kids.

She doesn’t think he’s still seeing my wife. He’s been transparent with his phone and email. He FaceTimes her during the day to check in. She said she can deal with this affair because it’s only physical. If Dan had feelings for my wife, she doesn’t think she could forgive him.

I’ll keep talking to her to make sure nothing else happens.

Matt

Dan’s wife response are typical newly-betrayed spouse responses. It’s all the AP fault, it’s all better now, it was only physical and it’s OK as long as there were no emotions. And Dan has promised never to do this again…

Frankly it doesn’t matter who initiated the first coffee visit. Heck… your wife should be able to drink coffee with anyone she wants and it shouldn’t lead to extramarital sex. She should be able to shrug off any come-on from any man at any time. She should have the sense to remove herself from situations that could lead to infidelity. If she wanted to.

The same applies to Dan.

The affair isn’t your wife’s fault or Dan’s fault. It’s THEIR fault and neither can escape the accountability.

And nothing you get from him or her right now is true. Not really. His story is based on saving his marriage. Her story is based on saving her marriage.

Maybe the only thing true is that this isn’t about emotions or feelings. It’s about validation and power. So yes – OM doesn’t “love” your wife and probably had no intention of doing more than having sex. Probably the same with your wife. But does that make what they did any easier to deal with?

I still think you need the truth. Not as Dan sees it, but as your wife lays it out in a detailed confession. Go back to what I suggested earlier. I don’t know of a single way that’s better to get some base to build your decision on.

Bigger, I don’t think I’ll ever get the truth. Honestly, it’s not going to make a difference at this point anyway. She’s desperate to save the marriage so she will continue to lie and minimize. Talking to Dan’s wife tells me that neither will own up to it.

There isn’t a snowballs chance in hell to reconcile without the truth.

Are you deciding to divorce?

If she has nothing to lose and the options are:

The TRUTH or divorce.

Followed by: the TRUTH will be verified by a poly in the next 10 days.

Followed by: No matter what you tell me NOW I will give serious consideration to reconciliation, but no matter what you DON’T tell me NOW it will probably lead to me giving up on this marriage once it’s out there.

Make it clear to her that IF you decide to reconcile then it’s not to go into the old marriage. Her infidelity killed that. IF you decide to try to reconcile then it’s to create a better marriage and you refuse to go there with some secrets. She has to be totally honest if she even wants a chance.

If you aren’t willing to do this and/or if she refuses… Based on 12 years on this site… you don’t have the slightest chance of reconciliation.

Dan's wife really needs to poly that MFer

I think divorce is my only option. Even with all the truth, I will never trust her. I don’t want to spend the rest of my life wondering if she’ll do it again. I know it might sound childish, but why should she get to fuck around and keep her marriage? I know it’s not a popular sentiment, but I think waywards who are gifted with reconciliation are getting away with their affairs.

Sounds like Dan’s wife is in full denial / rugsweep mode. I don’t want Matt’s wife reading here without his approval but Dan’s wife would do well to read SI heavily.

I know it’s not a popular sentiment

It's neither popular or unpopular...opinions on R or D weigh on the situation. In yours, most people will recommend D.

Like I said, your M is dead. Your WW may change for the better post-D; she may not. IMO, that's not your problem at present; you are working on getting out of infidelity...that is priority #1.

Regarding Dan's wife - it is what it is. You can certainly suggest SI, but I would not push things. NC is best at this point.

Dan’s wife is definitely in denial. I don’t think she’s going to address it beyond what he’s told her. I feel sorry for her, but it’s up to her to deal with her marriage in a way that works for her.

I don’t think he’ll face any consequences. He’s a stay-at-home parent who’s been out of the workforce for years now and that didn’t stop him from jeopardizing his marriage and possibly finding his ass out on the street.

I believe him over my wife’s 3-4 times a week.

I do, too, given that waywards tend to minimize the "amount", the greater number of the two quoted amounts is closer to the truth. I'll bet if you hadn't caught your WW in the act but confronted her with your neighbor's eye witness account she likely would have minimized it to "we only just kissed". That scenario has been posted many times by many members.

Regardless, you know your own deal breaker terms better than anyone here. You have no obligation to give your WW an opportunity at R, especially since all you are observing from her is her begging and pleading instead of just taking full accountability for her actions. Regardless of R or D, having witnessed them in action will take a hell of a mind scrub. You should get into some IC as soon as you can to help with this. As for marriage, its just a contract. She violated it. If the road to R requires that the death of the marriage be officially buried with a divorce process before you can even consider R then so be it. It has been done by members here as well. D isn't a permanent banishment for your WW since your children will pretty much guarantee you will be in touch with her for some time. Now, the D process takes time anyway before it is finalized so might as well get that started now than later. If she were the slightest bit remorseful for her actions she would understand you filing for D and why. Right now, she is in self preservation mode, minimizing as much as possible to suffer the least amount of consequences. Let's see how she handles herself and the situation once she gets served. Let's see what motivate her the most, entitlement or empathy.

I think divorce is my only option. Even with all the truth, I will never trust her. I don’t want to spend the rest of my life wondering if she’ll do it again.

Are you sure that's not emotion alone speaking?

You can't predict the future. Trust can be rebuilt. I've trusted my W for 3+ years. It's not the blind trust it used to be, but the problem was trusting blindly in the first place.

I don;t spend even a particle of my energy wondering if my W will cheat again, except when responding to posts which ask the question.

If she does, I'll be fine.

I know it might sound childish, but why should she get to fuck around and keep her marriage?

In my case, because I like her a lot and because she really turns me on. Also, losing our M would hurt me tremendously. The A hurt enough; I don't want to add to my pain, if R has a high-probability for success.

I know it’s not a popular sentiment, but I think waywards who are gifted with reconciliation are getting away with their affairs.

Yup. My W's A was pretty depressing - sex on the floor of a cold office, in a car, etc. - and she couldn't eat or sleep enough during her A. IMO, she didn't get away with much.

It sounds like your W got a lot of good sex. I haven't been in that sitch, so I don't know what I would do if I were in it.

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I'm not arguing for R, believe it or not. I'm arguing that D is NOT your only option. I'm asserting that if you let yourself see D, R, and waiting to let the dust settle as options for you now, you'll make a better decision for yourself.

Not only that, if you pick from multiple viable options, you'll be able to better withstand the pressures during the difficult times that come when you carry our your decision.

If you see D as your only option, it's too easy to see yourself as a Victim in a Drama Triangle (web-searchable), and IMO it will be harder for you to thrive after implementing your decision.

MATT,

Dan's wife has only complicated matters with her poor attitude.

Have you seen an attorney yet ?

You've fulfilled your obligation to his wife and now you know where she stands. Frankly it is none of your business if this is his first, second or thirty-fifth affair so really that is irrelevant to your situation and it isn't a surprise that if she is deciding to R immediately like this that she is going to start demonizing and blaming your WW as the aggressor and assigning more blame to her than to her WH. Did you point her to this site as somewhere she can come for advice?

I don't think you owe her anything else unless you find out that your WW continues to have contact with him. If you are intent on D then I do think it would be good for you to tell her that as your WW will probably reach out to him to continue the relationship if she becomes convinced you are moving on. She might do that even if you offer R but in the case where you are divorcing it isn't something you can control or worry about. I would let her know your wife is going to be a free agent though and then leave her to manage this tragedy as she sees fit. You have enough to do getting yourself out of infidelity and can't take on her problems as well.

hope your wife will give you a written timeline of the A. and take a poly on it.

You could send it to the OBS.

Hope you get a good attorney.

Sorry for your situation. You are handling it as best as you can.