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What I'm thinking is that if Buck can successfully find remorse for his own cheating behavior, maybe he can empathize with his fWW. Once there's empathy, new understanding can grow, maybe even new respect. It's not about rubbing his nose in it or anything like that. I honestly think that this might be a path toward saving his marriage. What would it hurt for him to try it?

I really do get that, CT…and I don’t necessarily disagree with you.

But there is one caveat. What is the marriage NOW that he would be trying to save? One where he basically gets paid without having to show up for work?

Do you get my point? How he would be even less inclined/motivated to try to save THIS marriage?

At least one of them has to start with authenticity. However that looks and at whatever the cost. That’s the real challenge here.

If it was easy for him to leave, he'd have left by now though, don't you think?

I do think that. But I don’t think it’s the current state of the marriage that’s holding him(though admittedly, it’s hard to quit that kind of job.)

My speculation is that it’s guilt. That’s why he chose the word “irony”…basically a good thing that’s spoiled by something bad. To borrow the lyrics - rain on your wedding day, a free ride when you’ve already paid.

It’s also that idea of deferred payment (avoidance). There’s almost always a cost to authenticity - as well as inauthenticity. Based on my own experience, you can think if you just keep holding off long enough you won’t eventually have to pay it.

[This message edited by truthsetmefree at 6:32 PM, July 30th (Friday)]

CT, the truth is I could never really replicate what she did to me. The way I see it, I "cheated" on an unfaithful spouse. One that destroyed a pretty damn good marriage for foolish and childish reasons. I was a completely devoted spouse that was betrayed, she was not. She destroyed another family, I did not. She was an accomplice in a fucking horrible DV incident, I was not. She handled d day completely different from me too (blameshifting, gaslighting, minimizing, trickle truth, all the standard shit). As to your tit for tat, she could absolutely cheat at any time for any reason, she has in the past. I do not control her, I control me. I would simply leave. I have no tolerance for any of that bullshit anymore. I also am not responsible for her reaction to my actions. She's an adult.

Truthsetmefree, you pretty much hit the mark on how I feel. I do feel guilt. I also feel the loss of the M. This is not how I envisioned our lives playing out years ago. It's sad. I've known her since I was 21 and she was 20. We've been married 28 years...

And I now feel relief about my decision to D. It really is like a weight has been lifted off of my shoulders.

And I now feel relief about my decision to D. It really is like a weight has been lifted off of my shoulders

I really think this is the best decision. You really have no respect for her by what she did, and no respect for yourself for staying, and the way you are treating her. I get it. I was in your shoes. My guess is even if you don’t say this or might not agree, you probably have lost some self respect for the RA’s

Just be prepared for the shit show you are going to face. Your WW is going to plead, bargain, and promise she will devote her life to you. It may sound easy to blow off, but the experience of me finally pulling the plug was as painful as finding out about the affair. Having my wife, who was and is a good person, seeing her 30 marrige go down in flames and watching her howl in pain is drilled into my head. I was sick over it a long time. I’m sick now thinking about it.

The best thing is if you could break the cycle of contempt, you might still stand a chance. I think that if I had an RA it might have helped me in that front. I felt my EX got away with it. Yours hasn’t. You got your pound of flesh.

But if you can’t break that cycle, divorce is the best thing. I feel for you. This will be the worst MC session ever.

Does she have any idea that this is coming?

Well, it won't be news to you that I don't agree with your assertion that it's not cheating if you've announced yourself. Like I said, if instead of going behind your back, your WW had belligerently got in your face and said, "I'm going out to fuck this guy and I don't care what you think about it", I doubt you'd be quite so sanguine about your own position. That said, I think you're making a fantastic decision. Your wife might be unhappy about it at first, but hopefully she'll find her tribe and be much happier than she was while married to a man who had contempt for her. That just can't be a great way to live.

Good luck going forward.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 8:06 PM, July 31st (Saturday)]

The way I see it, I "cheated" on an unfaithful spouse. One that destroyed a pretty damn good marriage for foolish and childish reasons. I was a completely devoted spouse that was betrayed, she was not. She destroyed another family, I did not. She was an accomplice in a fucking horrible DV incident, I was not. She handled d day completely different from me too (blameshifting, gaslighting, minimizing, trickle truth, all the standard shit). As to your tit for tat, she could absolutely cheat at any time for any reason, she has in the past. I do not control her, I control me. I would simply leave. I have no tolerance for any of that bullshit anymore.

So that would have you leave? Her cheating again? WHAT DOES YOUR CHARACTER SAY ABOUT YOU BY STAYING, AND PUNISHING HER? Buck, the above description of her wayward behavior is plainly laid out by you, in detail. Yet you just 'cheated on a cheater'. I hate saying this, but man, it sounds wayward.

Again, I'm chiming in with WWTL about the contempt, resentment, and lack of respect you hold for your wife. She broke the marriage, but you stayed in a punishing role without letting her try to fix the marriage. And if it was unfixable, which I totally get, you didn't end the marriage. The issue isn't forgiving your wife; the issue is not forgiving her AND acting like you did. If you aren't willing to try to shelf the contempt, there's no way that this marriage has a chance to improve. I'd almost be willing to bet the ranch that if your wife stood up to you, said FUCKING ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, I'M OUTTA HERE IF THINGS DON'T CHANGE, your outlook on reconciliation might be a lot different.

And Buck, I'm not saying any of this to pile on you; I'm saying that I believe if you put yourself on her level, or damn close to it, things could possibly improve. But it looks like you will NEVER put your actions in the same league.

There are many cautionary tales in the Bible about adultery starting in genesis. Why is that? Not because it pisses people off. Not because it hurts. Not because it is dangerous.

It is because it destroys hearts, minds and souls. Forever. Sure some people can live with it. Some people can train themselves to cope. But who here has ever said they are so much happier, so much healthier, so much stronger because the person they loved fucked another? Even people in open marriages come here and lament.

Sometimes the only option is divorce. In you case Buck, I think if that is where you are, then you are choosing wisely.

It is because it destroys hearts, minds and souls.

It also destroys social coherence, eroding social capital. If “everyone did it” we would descend into anarchy because trust and honor would be impossible virtues to maintain.