SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

SisterMilkShake

Thanks, Incarnate. As you are 30 y.o. man, I would imagine you can't relate to the question.

Au contraire. I have had performance issues... I'm somewhat overweight, i smoked for a number of years, and there was a time where, while I wouldn't say that my drinking was out of control, I definitely wasn't controlling it to the extent that I maybe should have been. Sometimes, soldiers are a little less apt to stand at attention while the general is being neglectful.

My main point of it was that a faked orgasm wouldn't really do anything, in the cases where my performance DID suffer, to alleviate that. In fact, without going into TMI TOO much (we're all adults here, honestly, and we've already conga-lined right over THAT distinction, IMO), last night, my wife and I were being intimate with each other. Her favorite position is doggystyle, and it is how we generally tend to default, especially if she wants to just kind of relax and not put too much work into it (she's tired/on the verge of PMS, etc..).

Unfortunately, part of what I found during some recent Trickle Truth was that of the times she was sexual with her AP, 95% of the time (or more, or less, she hasn't told me about any other positions, but she hasn't really told me much), it was doggystyle... so even though that was one of our staple positions, I now hold a negative connotation about it. I started to get a little angry, because the sight of my wife ready and willing SHOULD be enough to captivate my interest and positive emotions, whereas part of me wanted to be like, "No, this is how you gave yourself to the OM, I'm not going to participate in this with you like this," and my soldier started to follow indirect orders and stand down.

A faked orgasm wouldn't have helped that in the slightest. What helped was that I had to mentally change my perceptions to where I was reclaiming territory. She told me that AP was somewhat selfish in bed and never got her off, so it became my goal to do so. My arousal was, at that moment, hinging on hers. If she was aroused, and she was enjoying herself, then it was proving that i was indeed the better man, that this territory was indeed mine, and that i was indeed the victorious party. Call it caveman-esque, call it brutish, call it misogynistic to think of her like territory or property, but when she treats herself like she is just property, in the heat of the moment, I don't have a problem playing by her rules. In the end, she is my wife, I adore her more than I adore drawing breath, and if this is a way I can work through our mutual pain, then I will, and with extreme prejudice.

As you age, though, your body goes through some wonderful changes. <sasrcasm> It hasn't nothing to do with desire. You may find things different as you age.

I am already finding that out the hard way, no pun intended... I can't drink and I don't heal like I did when i was in my early 20's... damnable wasted youth.

But, maybe, if you can fast forward (30 years) to the older Incarnate that may have some issues in that department. If you could stay hard by your partner faking an orgasm, as opposed to you taking a pill, would that be so offensive? Do you feel that would be deceptive? Do you feel maybe the faking an orgasm is for the 'greater good" and doesn't diminish the authentic intimacy you still do share?

If, at some point in the future, my staying hard were to hing on whether or not I perceived her having an orgasm, and she were to give me that perception, I would be thankful and hurt at the same time. I would be thankful for her consideration for me, that she would go through the effort of taking care of me, at perhaps the expense of her own pleasure, but I would be hurt that I was insufficient at that juncture to make the fantasy a reality. It's like if she were to be unhappy or unsatisfied in our marriage, but she stayed just to make me happy. I would be happy to have her, as that is what i want, but it would hurt that the happiness is not genuine.

Does that make sense?

What made it feel like that to me was the bit about you not being made to feel Wayward for faking an orgasm. None of us here have made that distinction about you personally, and I know that I would feel like it would be out of my personal boundaries to do so.

I am so sorry about this. This is from the other thread. Posters there feeling that faking is lying and lying is lying. That it is hypocritical of me and all kinds of yadda, yadda, yadda.

I am so very, very sorry that any Menz felt I was posting that this is what they were saying. I wasn't clear. It is my fault for the misunderstanding. Mea culpa!

No apologies necessary. I know that sometimes I carry emotion over from unrelated topics, or partially related topics, and my reactions may be a tad strong. I think we are all intelligent enough to understand that this website, of all websites, is filled to the brim with very emotionally charged people... sometimes those emotions can get the better of us and run loose at the reins.

No harm, no foul.

Im not going to debate whether it is..or is not ok..to fake an orgasm. What works for one couple, may not work for the other..

However..Im curious...can't you tell when a woman is faking an orgasm? I mean, can't you feel that the vagina isn't contracting and she is faking it? Or can you really not tell?

Gawd.

DragnHeart

Hi Menz. What does your partner do that makes you feel loved?

Sex, hugs, saying they love you? Doing things with you that you enjoy?

I feel loved when my wife says she loves me. i haven't heard those words come out of her mouth since mid July last year. I can tell that her reaction, sometimes, is to say it, but she pointedly stops herself... and that makes me feel particularly unloved.

If I were to get hugs, I would feel loved, but I don't get them anymore. I have to pry kisses out of her as well, or she just stands there and let's me give her a quick kiss as I'm heading out the door. it makes me feel like she's just waiting for it to be done so she can go about her business, which is almost more painful that nothing at all. it's making me not want to hug or kiss her, because of what she is doing to it.

What makes me feel loved, anymore, is when she is actually being honest with me, when i know that it is not what she wants to do.

I want to know what men are in to when they watch porn. I don't mean specific acts. It's hard to explain, but are they in to THAT WOMAN who is on the screen and responding to HER (eg. She's hot...I want to do her), or is it the idea of it being ANOTHER WOMAN (I'd love to be with someone other than my partner, but not necessarily that woman), and not related at all to which specific woman is on the screen, or is it seeing ACTS that they enjoy or would like to try (That looks like it would feel great), or is it SEEING SEX that makes them feel turned on just because it's sex and they can imagine it more easily with a visual (Oooh, sex! I like sex)?

(For an example, I don't watch porn very often but when I do, I don't have any interest in any of the people taking part. I'm not aroused at all by looking at their bodies or how they look and I don't imagine myself with any of them. The parts that I find physically stimulating are close ups on cunnilingus and penetration because I can imagine very easily how it feels to me. I have no interest in being with anyone else when I watch porn...my interest is in having those specific acts done to me.)

[This message edited by AutumnGlow at 10:47 AM, January 10th (Saturday)]

AutumnGlow

I want to know what men are in to when they watch porn. I don't mean specific acts. It's hard to explain, but are they in to THAT WOMAN who is on the screen and responding to HER (eg. She's hot...I want to do her), or is it the idea of it being ANOTHER WOMAN (I'd love to be with someone other than my partner, but not necessarily that woman), and not related at all to which specific woman is on the screen, or is it seeing ACTS that they enjoy or would like to try (That looks like it would feel great), or is it SEEING SEX that makes them feel turned on just because it's sex and they can imagine it more easily with a visual (Oooh, sex! I like sex)?

Excellent question!

I don't watch a whole lot of porn, tbh. Most of what I DO watch is with the wife. For a long while, she had more of a porn habit than I did, which really wasn't saying much, since I didn't really have one...

For me, I have fantasies and such that really, really turn me on, that involve my wife, that i could never, ever do in real life. My wife expressed an interest in BDSM style activited about five years ago, and I recoiled hard at first, but after some time, i was able to find enjoyment in what we did, and even find new territory in that realm that *I* found appealing. An example would be a 'public disgrace/use' fantasy. Basically, put her in a public situation where any number of the faceless/irrelevant patrons of the establishment/environment could do whatever they wanted.

I would never do this. I COULD never do this. if she begged me to let her do this (she has expressed that this fantasy is a turn on for her as well) I would say no, and if she insisted, it would be a dealbreaker. Even though it would just be in the realm of experimental/kinky sex, and would have no bearing on our actual emotional relationship, it would become a stumbling block for me and thus for us, and it would cause things to end.

This is where porn comes in. We can watch this take place to a willing party who enjoys it immensely, and we can watch the REST of the willing parties participate in a completely consensual expression of our mutual fantasy without having to cross the threshold of that fantasy ourselves.

Now, if I watch porn myself, for my own... uh... purposes... then I find a situation/fantasy/scenario that I find appealing, and may have fantasized about in the past, or that I would be excited to find myself in in the future, and observe that, replacing the the necessary parties with whoever I wish (myself with the male party, whatever).

I am objective enough to understand that I am not the only man on the face of the planet. I am also realistic enough to know that I am not model or porn start level of attractive. I'm no Chippendale's Dancer, if you know what I mean. I have solid, rugged Norse features, I am broad shouldered and barrel chested, the barrel extends, unfortunately, to my stomach... I am a somewhat fuzzy man (my daughters say I am fuzzy like their teddy bears... I'm not quite THAT bad, I think... >_>), I am of average height, and my anatomy is adequate by not jaw-dropping.

I personally think that the package I come in is pretty okay... but I'm no Adonis. Just like I find my wife attractive, beautiful, sexy, and wonderful... but there's just something about Michelle Trachtenburg or Elizabeth hurley that is just... dayum.

The world is full of beautiful people. These beautiful people are nice to look at.

The world is full of people having sex. Some of these people are not attractive.

Some of the beautiful people don't mind being seen having sex, and I don't mind seeing them. I don't think of it as infidelity, nor do I think of it as a wandering mindset, nor do I actively want to seek out that particular actress (or a different woman who looks like her) and attempt to have sex with them.

One can look at a painting without being tempted to purchase or steal it. One can also watch porn without wanting to actually be involved with the actors.

If watching porn hurt your wife..would you stop?

Would her feelings be more important than being able to watch your fantasies play out onscreen?

confused615

can't you tell when a woman is faking an orgasm? I mean, can't you feel that the vagina isn't contracting and she is faking it? Or can you really not tell?

I cannot speak for the other Menz, but I know that I absolutely can tell. My wife has maintained her 'structure' despite having had five kids, and her muscle tone is pretty good... part of being a very active mom and a belly dancer to boot. If she is faking it, honestly, it's not terribly tight, it doesn't have the same grip, and it just feels like she is wriggling about a pivot point on my groin. When she does actually have a real orgasm... well, she has some pretty damn good muscle tone.

If watching porn hurt your wife..would you stop?

Would her feelings be more important than being able to watch your fantasies play out onscreen?

Without hesitation. I have an active imagination and if I needed to take care of something without onscreen visualization... well, I didn't have the internet as a teenager, so it wouldn't really be a problem

SisterMilkShake:

If it means the difference between a flaccid or hard dick, do you still have a problem with faking, menz? Or, would you prefer to take a pill? *shrug*

Actually, yes, I would still have a problem with faking. Me being me the emotional connection is very important. There are a variety of non-penetrative things that will bring my partner to orgasm. In real life, sometimes we both orgasm, sometimes I don't, sometimes she doesn't, and sometimes we just wind down and cuddle. Note that I'm climbing the stairs to The Bus here, but what I related has been the course of my life.

confused615:

However..Im curious...can't you tell when a woman is faking an orgasm? I mean, can't you feel that the vagina isn't contracting and she is faking it? Or can you really not tell?

Every man has different penile sensitivity and every woman different muscle tone and specific reactions that vary.

Most often I can tell, up in the 90+% range, but sometimes the orgasm comes quicker than normal, or slower, or just differently, and there's some question.

In many women for instance, there is flushing, erect nipples, and contractions in the vagina or abdomen/stomach area. Well, one or more of the above signs. I had one female partner who remained very quiescent and merely let out a single "uh" sound.

edit: typo

[This message edited by devotedman at 12:09 PM, January 10th (Saturday)]

DragnHeart:

Hi Menz. What does your partner do that makes you feel loved? Sex, hugs, saying they love you? Doing things with you that you enjoy?

This is exactly The Five Love Languages territory, isn't it?

But my answer(s): Many things at different times in different situations.

Sex, sure, but really exploring bodies, exploring new things to do, re-doing what we've done just to be comfortable. Cuddling after.

Spontaneous physical touch, coming up and holding my hand, caressing me. Holding hands while walking, standing near or touching hips when in groups, that sort of thing.

Learning new things together is really fun. Day trips, too.

Cooking together. Very sexy to feed your partner bits for taste testing or just for spontaneous bonding.

Spending quality time together talking about our day, our lives, our dreams. Doing things that I like to do, or inviting me to do things that she likes to do just to have me there.

All those things are wonderful to me. But I'm different than everyone else, so take with a grain of salt.

[This message edited by devotedman at 12:08 PM, January 10th (Saturday)]

Thanks so very much Incarnate, devotedman and Brandon. Interesting thoughts. I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.

SisterMilkShake, you've very welcome. Sometimes I can be a role model and sometimes I'm just a horrible warning to others.

confused615, your other question:

If watching porn hurt your wife..would you stop?

I have rarely watched porn with a partner. Like, once or twice. I would much rather be doing interesting things than watch actors fake doing interesting things. So, I absolutely would stop. I would, in fact, rather not do it at all.

EDIT: the implicit assumption of your q bothers me, personally. If <some activity> hurt the woman you love most in the world would you stop <some activity>. Well, yes. Except breathing. My xWW objected to me doing that but we didn't love each other at that point, so... I kept it up. Why would continuing a hurtful activity be acceptable? We might talk about why it hurt and she might be okay after discussion, opinions do change, but if it continued to hurt SO then activity gets chucked out. Priorities!

EDIT2: My pleasure is not worth the pain of another human being. Ethics 101.

Would her feelings be more important than being able to watch your fantasies play out onscreen?

Absolutely, a piece of celluloid or tape doesn't care for me, my partner does (well, the most recent one doesn't, but you know what I mean). Since my fantasies always involve the person I'm involved with I don't watch them play out, I play them out. Like flirting; beginning the act of seduction at dinner out and finishing at home; a little caress of the back of the neck as promise of things to come; talking, inching closer, a light kiss, then standing to lead to the bedroom...; These are the types of fantasies that bond. I like bonding, so mine tend towards bonding. Not bondAGE, but bondING emotionally.

[This message edited by devotedman at 1:06 PM, January 10th (Saturday)]

I want to know what men are in to when they watch porn. I don't mean specific acts. It's hard to explain, but are they in to THAT WOMAN who is on the screen and responding to HER (eg. She's hot...I want to do her), or is it the idea of it being ANOTHER WOMAN (I'd love to be with someone other than my partner, but not necessarily that woman), and not related at all to which specific woman is on the screen, or is it seeing ACTS that they enjoy or would like to try (That looks like it would feel great), or is it SEEING SEX that makes them feel turned on just because it's sex and they can imagine it more easily with a visual (Oooh, sex! I like sex)?

I used to watch porn a lot. Way to much actuality. I don't watch porn anymore and the thought that I once enjoyed it kind make me feel sick. The main reason is I now see porn as abuse. It seems that most the people involved are victims of some sort. the other reason is it was wrong and distracted me from my W. I look at it now like a betrayal. I went cold turkey and have not missed it. I watch it from my early teens until my mid forties.

The reason I did watch was the sex acts. It had nothing to do with the Woman however I would find ones that appealed to my taste. I also noticed that the acts had to be progressively worse (sick). I explained porn use to my wife as men are visual, at least that was the case for me. I always felt it was wrong or demeaning but at the end watching a gang bang or sex party turned me on. I have started going to church and exploring my spirituality and porn has no place in my program.

This is exactly The Five Love Languages territory, isn't it?

I guess so. I did the love languages survey thing and found d I didn't agree with mine. I didn't like the questions mainly focusing on gift giving. But anyways, I don't know WH love language so its been hard to know what to do for him since he is impossible to get to talk.

As for the faking orgasism. Yes I have. And its a direct result of WH A's. I have lost all attraction and passion towards him. Sex is robotic. Boring. Its like I figure if he gets it from me even if I don't want to then maybe he won't go to someone else. Not the case apparently...

Thing is because intercourse was always painful I never get off during intercourse (problem resolves by surgery). He uses toys. I get off. Then he gets off during intercourse. That's as boring as it can possibly get! It wasn't always like that. DS was conceived in the car on a back road lol

Now whether or not he ever knew I faked it I don't know but there were times I was to physically or mentally exhausted to even fake it. Those times I would tell him there's just no wind that's going to get this ship to move. Those times he would get upset and not bother going himself and just end up being miserable. At least faking it he would get off too and not be upset. Ya I know its lying but when HE won't talk or work out the issues surrounding his A's and at least try to make ME feel loved and wanted what can he expect?

Sorry.....vented a bit

the implicit assumption of your q bothers me, personally

Well..Im sorry it bothers you. My question was based on my own personal experiences with my FWH..we fought over porn for years...I was fine with it for a long time..until he started hiding it from me(why hide it when I am ok with it??) and he became too tired for sex with me(yet was yanking it to porn every day).

He knew it hurt me..deeply..yet I was told "it has nothing to do with you" and to "get over it." He didn't stop..so I gave in..and watched hours of porn with him every damn Saturday night...which also involved hours of sex. This was going on right up until dday.

Didn't matter..he still chose porn over me.

That's why I asked.

confused615,

I'm sorry, I think that we miscommunicated.

The implicit part that bothered me was the seeming assumption that the question had to be asked. Bothered not as in "I am upset with you" but bothered as in "having to ask the question of whether or not a spouse should engage in known hurtful behavior".

In other words, I was hoping that you weren't being put in that position.

These words:

he became too tired for sex with me

indicate that he was becoming distant, non-intimate, from the porn use. That is a real danger of porn use. Porn becomes a poor substitute to true intimacy.

I'm a sucker for intimacy. I love talking, being with, my SO (whomever that may be).

"it has nothing to do with you" and to "get over it."

A spouse not being intimate, choosing something else over us, has everything to do with us. His following comment was dismissive and demeaning.

His separation from intimacy was quite evident to you. Of course you were hurt. I'm sorry that you went through that. I went through the loss of intimacy myself recently and it really hurts.

I hope that we're more on the same page? I wasn't bothered by you, but for you.

I understand..now. Thanks devotedman.

Thanks menz for answering my questions. I asked them because I wanted to hear the opinions of other men. And it really was that simple.

I only had the opinion of my husband and the guys I was with before him. It takes all kinds and you are gracious enough to answer our questions, so thank you.

However..Im curious...can't you tell when a woman is faking an orgasm? I mean, can't you feel that the vagina isn't contracting and she is faking it? Or can you really not tell?

I have been told by my H that he feels more lubrication, it gets wetter aftr my O

However..Im curious...can't you tell when a woman is faking an orgasm? I mean, can't you feel that the vagina isn't contracting and she is faking it? Or can you really not tell?

I can't really tell. The only way I know for sure is when she can't handle me touching her nipples or other areas anymore. If she o's then she becomes too sensitive for touch in the fun places.

Different with different women. My first wife I could always tell when she faked it.