DoneGone,
Edith was absolutely cruel to me for the 20 months or so during the affair. I am still astonished. She had some clearly messed up thinking and was clearly addicted to the attention, riskiness, and romance.
But she has made it clear in many ways, and I see it in their texts and emails, that she loved me very deeply and would not let him say anything negative about me. He got zero traction making derogatory comments about me. It wasn't that she didn't love me, it's just that she felt she needed "more". More attention, more talking, more texting, more romance, more love. She just wanted me to provide more than I possibly could. She had resentments and anger about stuff in the past, but that was primarily because I couldn't provide attention and companionship to her level of expectation.
So when she was caught with a PA (not just an EA) her world came caving in and she faced losing me, finally. When she saw me preparing for divorce, she changed. She admitted that she never really considered that I would divorce her. The thought just never really crossed her mind that I would find out about the PA and the result would be losing the love of her life, me.
Waywards, especially mine, check out of a world of logic and consequences. Their midbrains take over the frontal lobes and reasoning goes out the window. Some really think the A is an addition to the love they currently have.
Now Edith realizes that what she was doing was destroying the best part of her world. She feels it's a matter of time before I throw in the towel, because what she did was beyond what I can overcome. She hopes not, but she is conceding that I may not make it.
What I have seen of your thread, your WW really, like mine, affaired down. That guy she had is really scum of the gutter. Mine is more polished and has a silver tongue and speaks eloquently. Yours has a 7" piece of meat and talks dirty. To each his own... My wife looked for the attention and romantic words, yours seems to have looked for the attention and dirty talk. What is the difference? Choice of words?
Perhaps the difference is the demeaning nature of the exchange regarding the spouse. Like you, I sat down and had dinner with my wife and the OM. We talked and exchanged ideas as Edith looked on and smiled. His texts to Edith were complementary of me afterwards.
But both were just a means to exert influence and power. Complementing me put Edith at ease, that OM wasn't a bad guy, that he was kind and considerate, which fed into the mystique that he was "compassionate and loving." Your wife's OM's comments exerted power and domination, which fed into the mystique that he was "powerful and masculine".
Of course, both sets of comments are just manipulations. They were ego kibbles and placed the OM in position to have sex with our wives later.
Early on Edith's OM wrote:
"[NP5] didn't surprise me by what he wanted to talk about, which was good. I listened carefully as he put forth his thoughts, and likewise he listened calmly as I put forth mine. I appreciated his sensitivity and willingness to continue a family rapport with me. I let him know how important it is to me that [DD2] is allowed to develop, and how much I treasure you. I didn't promise to follow one exact code of rules, but did let him know I do not want to interfere with the solid, happy, long-term cohesiveness of your family. My sense is that he was satisfied and reasonably assured by my responses. I also feel I would be amenable to getting to know him more in the future. I hope you are having a good day. I'll touch in with you frequently."
This was to put her at ease because his trap was not yet fully set. She hadn't fully fallen into the fog. She was not yet addicted to his attention. Sadly, I was not able to convince her to stay away from him. She believed the OM over her loving husband.
Redsox:
But there was a line my ws never crossed - at no point did she ever say anything negative about me. I think about the difference between my own case and DG's - and maybe that is the line. Had I read something like DG I don't think I would have R's either.
The disrespect the OM and WWs show the BH is absolute. They take which is sacredly and uniquely ours, trampling on the children's lives in the process. What could be more disrespectful? The fact that DoneGone's OM said the things he did were manipulations to project an image of himself that is a fantasy, just like Edith's OM. DoneGone's wife bought that fantasy, as did Edith, because they wanted to believe it.
I cannot say that I haven't countered every derogatory comment made about Edith. Many of you on SI have choice names for her. I rejected them many times, but not always. I was angry and upset. I believe much of Edith's anger over SI was that I didn't counter the bad thinks people said. Maybe not so much that they weren't true, but that I didn't dismiss or stand up for her. I am sure at times I said those things myself. This is what most galls you, perhaps, DoneGone. That your wife engaged in the degradation, the disrespect of you as a person and your character.
So as I look to my own decision and look to yours, I can't help but ask myself, how and why are we choosing differently? What choice is more wise? If I look at just me, it would be better to D, perhaps. When I consider my children and even my wife, I see us best served by trying to R.
Again, Redsox:
NP5 - my situation is similar to yours. I don't know what message I sent to my children through R. I thought they would learn two things:
1. That in life it is not so much how badly you mess up - we all do - but rather how we react when we do mess up. My wife convinced me through her actions of her nobility. It's a strange word to use to for a ws - and yet it applies to her behavior in the aftermath. I am not minimizing A - it is not just another screw up either. Yet it was impossible to deny the change.
2. That marriage is a commitment - and you do the best you can to hold onto it.
I hope my children have learned instead that you put up with bad behavior and abuse.
If I were to D now, my children would see me putting up with abuse and disrespect (prior to the affair) and then tremendous betrayal and then me punishing her for her stupid actions. This is appropriate and just.
If Edith and I can successfully R, then I can show them that people (Edith) can make stupid mistakes, can take the consequences, can make amends in some way, can repair the damage, and can forgive. This also can be appropriate and just.
But I think the key here is consequences and making amends. If my children do not see the consequences, the WW's change, the WW's amends, then the BH's forgiveness looks like weakness and rugsweeping. It's all got to be in there. For you, DoneGone, certainly she has seen consequences now. Do you see no way for your WW to make amends? For me and Edith, I have delayed giving her much in consequences and she has been slow in making amends. Without that, how can there be forgiveness and reconciliation? The problem I face now is that most consequences I see land primarily on my children, ages 16-5. Perhaps that is where the difference really lies.
