SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Good questions nuance.

She just refuses to label it as an affair. Even though I told her ALL signs point to it. I even asked her if she thought it was cheating. She said she didn't know.

And funny you should mention the tables-turned scenario, because I asked her that tonight. She said she would be really hurt. That's a bit different than around D-Day when she said she wasn't sure how she would feel if it were me carrying on like that. I guess that is progress?

She said she is committed to fixing things. Seems remourseful. Says she wishes it never happened. But again - Actions speak louder than words.

My husband "only" had an EA. I know the pain. I know the incredible pain and anger.

I know how many times I read other stories here and tried to make myself think I should consider myself lucky.

I know betrayal is betrayal.

Yes, I could be dealing with a totally different, and worse, situation. My pain was/is still my pain and it still hurt/hurts.

Your wife knows what she did was wrong. The word "affair" is a word that tells everyone how wrong she was. Keep reading the healing library. Read the book NOT JUST FRIENDS by Shirley Glass. Try to get your wife to read it. It is one of the best at spelling out relationships. Even if your wife won't read it, you will get a lot from it.

Breathe. Drink water. Eat. Get some exercise. You will get through this.

hey LD...so sorry you're going throught this crap.

My WW had a "mostly" EA. If you want you can read about it in my profile. Some WSs do not "get it", especially when it comes to EAs. It is much easier on them if they minimize and justify their actions...."I didn't betray my husband since I didn't sleep w/ OM"...or, "My husband has been a jerk (insulting in from of parents) so what's the harm in talking to someone who is "nice" to me (OM)". It is bullshit.

Many WSs snap out of this crazy thinking...some do not. Mine has not.

A couple things that you will hear often on these forums is:

1) No matter what was going on in the M, the A was not your fault.

and...

2) You can only control your own actions. You decide what you need to R...you decide how much crap you are going to take.

good luck my brother,

jc

gettherefromhere:

You are correct. A betrayal is a betrayal. Whether they label it an affair or not. Not sure why I want to get her to admit it. But for some reason, I think it would help.

You are the 3rd person to suggest Just Friends - so I think it is time to buy a new book. Thank you!!

Just Crushed:

I sent you a Private Message.

Hey Lost Dad---You must look at her ACTIONS---not the words coming from her mouth

She has disrespected you, and still is---she is blame shifting, minimizing, and probably still lying to you

She treated her own H, you horribly at the wedding, refusing to dance with you, did she dance with others???

She thrice went behind your back to keep things going in the EA, after being caught----she speaks out of both sides of her mouth

You need to read the wayward forum, and see what spouses who are REALLY trying to win back their family are doing, and thinking

You need to lay this out to your wife, and it has to be hardball----she does not get to get pissed off about what you are going thru---she doesn't get to get pissed off about anything, as long as you don't abuse her

You need to lay out your boundaries, with dealbreaker consequences that you will actually put into effect. There is no give on anything you do from now on---she plays by your rules, or tell her D. is on the table

Yes she may be put thru trying times dealing with a special needs child, but you are out there working to keep the family in comfort, and proper living conditions----what else does she want????

This attitude of hers has to stop now, and you must let her know, in no uncertain terms---SHE NEEDS TO DO THE HEAVY LIFTING TO CONTINUE THIS MGE.

LD,

Unless DNA is to prove otherwise, than that is YOUR special needs child also, and you didn't mention anything about YOU straying.

Blameshifting is blameshifting, and excuses are excuses; your WW needs to realize what she has actually done.

As for your needing to know all details and needing your wife to truly realize her betrayal--that is very normal(what is normal anymore?) for BSs on this forum. I believe you need it for yourself so you can start to comprehend all that has happened--again very normal in my opinion. Don't cave to her one bit; if you need that information, she damn well better give it to you.

BTW, I also have a special needs child, and I, like you, did not stray.

jnj express:

You know, I really wanted to tell her that lastnight. She apologized before I could. I wanted to tell her she is in no position to get pissed with me right now.

I pretty much dragged out of her things that I had done in the past so we can dig real deep and get to the root cause. I took it like a man and she wasn't throwing it in my face. It's because I asked her.

But the bonus is that I told her about this site. I told her that here she could meet people in the same boat. She signed up. I'm hoping it will open her eyes to a whole new world. I think we're heading in the right direction. Don't worry, I won't let my guard down. She is going to know that I'm laying boundaries and one tiny slip will lead me right to the big D.

She knows I'm not going to hang around and be disrespected like and hurt all over again. If she does, I'll know she really doesn't love me anymore.

I find myself obsessing about her affair only when I am not with her. When we're together, we're trying to live normal again. It also comes back to me being the only one to suggest or initate that it is time to talk.

I'm all sorts of F-ed up this week. And I was doing so well before. WTF??

[This message edited by LostDad1974 at 9:42 PM, August 31st (Tuesday)]

UPDATE:

Great talk lastnight. She's answering all questions I have about the A. Not sure if she understands why I feel the need to ask such detailed questions. Not sure if she's ready to label it an A yet. Hopefully, we'll explore that with our new MC next week.

I also laid some boundaries out that I can't be lied to anymore...about anything! If so, it just isn't going to work.

She says she f-ed everything up and she is going to work hard to fix it.

I talked about my love for her and how it has changed drastically. We need to learn how to fall in love with each other all over again. She didn't respond too much to those comments, nor did she respond when I told her that she doesn't seem sexually attracted to me anymore.

We did another chapter in His Needs, Her needs today (which I recommend to anyone going through what we are)

The chapter dealt with sexual compatability. Instead of finishing the chapter, we decided to put some of those practices to good use - if you know what I mean ; )

All steps in the right direction?

Tomorrow we celebrate our 11th anniversary.

Best wishes to all - and have a great holiday weekend!

[This message edited by LostDad1974 at 4:13 PM, September 3rd (Friday)]

jb3199:

No, I have not strayed. I have had urges, but I have never acted on them - mostly because of the life my W and I built together. It meant too much to me.

Our daughter has a seizure disorder which has affected her since she was 5 months old. Because of that, she became very clingy to my W, to the point where my wife can't even leave the room without a melt-down. She has been doing great over the years with proper meds and therapy. She even started kindergaten this year! Interestingly enough, if you saw my previous post, we had a great conversation. My W said that she feels I have become resentful, even jealous of the attention she gives the kids. I thought that was very interesting. Not sure if it's true - I mean my kids are my world. But I guess it's worth exploring.

Thanks for your support and I wish you and your family my best.

[This message edited by LostDad1974 at 10:11 PM, September 3rd (Friday)]

Your last point definitely should be explored, and maybe tied into possible FOO problems your wife might have had

You should explore her relations with her parents, and their relations with each other---that might throw some light on WHY she felt the need to stray----if you don't wish to do it---have your counselor probe the issue

Hey, jnj express:

You mentioned FOO problems. What does that stand for?

As far as her parents - as I mentioned before, she is an Adult Child of an Alcoholic. as we discovered in MC. I've been doing a lot of research on this topic and she carries many of the characteristics of an ACOA.

Her parents were good friends I would say, very comfortable with each other, but often did not sleep in the same room or show any type of affection for each other. I guess in their own way they did, but that is not what I am looking for in a marriage.

F_amily O_f O_rigin

The whole nature vs. nuture, emotional and physical upbringing, etc.

I’m going to recommend Not Just Friends also.

The good thing is that you two are already into reading self-help books and it sounds as if you are both actively open for them. It’s also good that you started on the His Needs – Her Needs because if there is a single fault with reading NJF it’s that the WS sometimes feels the whole situation is loaded on her. With the base that HNHN might offer you then JNF will be a great next step.

Thanks for the clarification, jb3199!

NJF is on my shopping list, Bigger. Thank you!

I just had a couple thoughts. My WH had EA for a while first. For men, it doesn't usually stay EA and I have to say that for the OM she was seeing, I don't see him being that deep emotionally. The way she is being so disrespectful/not remorseful and is still in the fog, I think maybe it went farther than she wants to admit. I am also concerned (as I know this feeling) that you are scared to go down this road. Maybe that is why you are wanting the details. Do you feel deep in your gut that it probably became PA or that she has lied about some things. My WH did for a while. The only way for me to get to the truth was to question over and over and catch the little lies as he constradicted himself. It was horrible.

I also see myself in you. You want to address the marriage issues and rebuild the marriage, but this can't happen until she is truly out of the fog, honest and open, transparent and wants it herself. The hardest thing I am still dealing with is that I can't do things for him and I can't make decisions for him. He has to. It hurts and is painful and it takes that awful four letter word. TIME

I really hope I am wrong, but I really think you need to just sit back and think all these things through and start over with your quetions, suspicions, etc... I hate this for you. I truly do.

On another note. I have a son who had a lot of miner medical issues from birth to kindergarten. They were minor but there were a lot and it was ongoing. I got to a point where I was wore out and emotinally felt like I was doing it by myself. We moved and I started working and kinda let the bag drop in my husband's lap. I knew I did, but he was home so much more than I was that I thought he could deal with it. I also felt in a way he needed to be forced to deal with the fact that he may be mildly behind others b/c WH didn't want to face facts and reality. I think this pressure and his dad dying last year were some of our issues. It is tremendously stressful and exhausting. The thing to remember is though, that it is still not an excuse for an affair.

Good Luck. I really hope I am wrong. I really really do. It is just my gut making me nervous for you and I just want you to be careful. She has lied so much to you in the past that it is way early in the ballgame to accept that EA as truth quite yet. I hope so. Just be careful.

Your wife may be acting out against her alcoholic parents in some way---only an expert counselor can dig into that, but that might explain your wife's need to seek another man----she may just be filling a need that was brought on thru her FOO

Dr. Bonnie Weil----is a PH -D in her field, and claims to have R. 98% of her marital patients based on clearing up problems that were due to FOO----Just a thought for when you go into counseling

LostDad -- I'd echo everything that gardenmom just said. Waywards frequently lie to protect themselves and their As. They're also typically inclined to focus exclusively on everything you've ever done wrong in the marriage, often angrily. This is all textbook behavior for someone who's still in the fog. And it makes them very hard to reach via conventional MC, much less heart-to-heart talks.

My WW, for instance, used MC as an opportunity to justify her EA and to paint me as the bad guy. (Didn't help that we had a shitty therapist; I had my best luck doing basically the opposite of what he told me to do.) Anything that smacks of self-justification is a sign that your WW is still fogged. And as GM notes, it can take a looooong time for the fog to lift.

Only other thing I'd caution you about is doing your best to restrain your anger and disrespectful comments toward her. Yes, your emotions are perfectly natural and entirely justified. That doesn't mean you should express them to her in their rawest form. Come here to vent and let off steam, then go back to your WW with a more measured and considered version of what you need to say. Anger, sarcasm and general unpleasantness have a way of confirming waywards' exaggerated criticisms of you; best not to give them further ammunition if you really want to R.

gardenmom:

Thanks for reaching out and I am sorry you are going through a similar situation. I want nothing more than to believe it never turned into a PA. Only she knows the truth. If it did happen, I would hope she would share it with me before it's too late. As I stated in my first post, when I saw their last communication, all signs pointed to the fact that they never did. Maybe I caught it in time.

In the meantime I am keeping my guard up. We go to a new MC on Friday and I really hope this one works out for us. Best wishes.

jnj express:

We're discovering everyday that our parents made us who we are. It is up to us to change. Thanks again for your continued support.

survivorman:

Fortunately, my WW has not used MC to justify her EA. I also have a lot of issues I need to work out. I tend to catastrphize little situations - now more than ever. I'm sure that makes me less than appealing. I know that does not excuse her behavior, but if I can fix it, it will be that much quicker to R. I am still willing to fight for my M. Sometimes I do find myself being disrespectful. It is not intentional and I am working on it. Thank God for SI. This has been a great tool for helping me heal. Thanks for your thoughts. Best wishes.

[This message edited by LostDad1974 at 6:58 PM, September 9th (Thursday)]

Having another rough day. I've been tempted to reach out to the OM. Just to tell him what a piece of shit he is. Here is what I came up with if I decide to send it. I sure could use some thoughts on this:

I’m not sure why I am reaching out to you, but I’m going to get a few things off my chest. Whether you choose to read it or not is up to you. And don’t respond, because I really don’t care what you have to say at this point.

First, (WW) is just as much to blame for this as you are and I am dealing with her in my own way. So don’t say “she started it” like my 8 year old son would say. You said that to me before – but interestingly enough, the first and last texts to her were both from YOU.

I didn’t get the chance to tell you everything because you left Facebook in the middle of our conversation the night I caught you guys talking shit. It’s funny how you told me to “man-up” when you couldn’t even take what you deserved and ran off to avoid the situation. In my world, a real man doesn’t fuck around with another man’s wife.

A real man would have honored another man’s request to stop all contact with his wife. Instead you made excuses instead of saying, “Dude, you’re right. I fucked up and it won’t happen again.” But you didn’t. Again, she may have contacted you again, but you fucking responded.

You said you never did anything with my wife because you have morals. Does telling your best friend’s brother-in-law’s wife you want to “rail her so hard” constitute you having morals? Pretty fucked up morals if you ask me.

In reality, you took advantage of a broken woman. Her and (her sister) still had their mother’s death fresh on their minds, but I bet you never thought about that. I bet you never once said, “this is wrong and you should be spending this time fixing your marriage and fixing yourself. Not messing around with another guy.”

To me, it boils down to this. You used my wife to stroke you own ego. You apparently have no self-esteem or you wouldn’t have needed my wife to get your fix. You can pound your chest all you want and say to your pals, “Look, I can get another man’s wife.” So for that reason, you’re crap in my eyes. And pretty much in (WW)’s eyes because she realized what she’s put at stake. She may not know what she wants yet, but it certainly isn’t someone like you. She certainly doesn’t want a dude who has two kids from a failed relationship who still lives with his mother. I hope you can feel good about the crap you helped put our whole family through. And I hope you someday experience the fucking hurt and grief you put us through.

[This message edited by LostDad1974 at 8:52 PM, September 9th (Thursday)]