SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Well, waiting for the plane to UK. Looking forward to seeing family who care about me.

She came back from walk, more calmer. Understood my actions, but said this was the final straw. Does not think we can recon, D is only option.

Didn´t follow 180 and said nothing is final, we can repair if you want to, but it will take time, told her I am one of the few who has stood by her, know she has baggage but I am good guy (sorry, I know wrong thing to do).

Would have probably been better off telling the wall.

Feeling guilty now as I said some harsh things, but keep reminding myself I am not to blame and did nothing wrong.

Just sad that I have gone away on a bad note. Would have preferred her to miss me.

Can we still recon after this? I am sure folks here have gone through worse, but hard to see hope.

Good sign is I am starting to wonder what is the point of recon and do I want to.

Like many here, she has my heart, but is it worth it?

Anyway, going to try to forget and take a break from this crap.

Sorry for rambling, need to vent

Don‘t sweat her reaction. It‘s exactly what to expect.

Of course she lashes out at the one destroying her fantasy. Of course she lashes out when wounded. Give her time to calm down and fantasy gives way to reality.

Her threats to divorce and all that are still empty threats. Sure she can file but there is a process that she has to go through. It’s not as if when you come back it will all be over (or even started). In most Scandinavian countries then both spouses have to sign the divorce petition and have a signed statement from a priest or MC that reconciliation has been tried and didn’t work. You have to hand in a custody agreement as well as a division of debts/assets agreement. Yes – she can hand in some of these papers without your signature but that only initiates a rather long legal process with added costs. She won’t do that. She will wait and during that time she will calm down. The system tends to frown on it when one spouse tries to speed the process or sidestep procedures needlessly.

Now go and try to relax in the UK. Don’t worry about the last conversation. I think it’s good that she knows your stance: R is still possible at the moment if she commits. Can you reconcile after this? Well why not? It’s only a question of what you want to do and what she wants to do.

I have kicked her when she is at her lowest, she feels betrayed, that I have been manipulating her, she can trust no-one (has she not been listening to me over the past few weeks!), our marriage has no chance now, this was the worst thing I could do.

but said this was the final straw

These are the words of someone who will not take responsibility for her self and her actions, cannot move beyond herself to see another, she is at the centre of every solar system - solipsism. This kind of deflection and button-pushing may be one of the reasons why you might be overly prone to guilt (beyond what is clearly a kind and caring nature that you have.)

Wishing you a great and peaceful time here in the UK.

Ozzy good luck!!

Sounds like you are doing everything right!!

Stay positive.

Been in UK for 2 days, feel sooo much stronger now I am away from the old environment. Would recommend a few days away to anyone.

WW called on Sunday evening, why don´t I realise it is over and she is in love with OM (I do, but the door is still open if you want recon), She is getting scard of me (WTF?), and will I be stalking her and throwing stones at the window of her new place (!!!). How will I be when I meet OM and he with our kids (Ahh, come on, push the knife harder). I replied in 15 years, I have been most laid back, friendly, caring guy ever. If she chooses not to see that and just my recent anger, take out a court injunction. Pointed out it has only been 3 wks since DDay, and my reaction has been quite mild compared to some.

Felt crap on Monday am, and over-analysing everything. Met an old female friend of mine in the afternoon and it was amazing to have a relaxed, rational, humourous comversation with the other sex. Forgotten what it was like, and I can see how an EA starts when you are outside of the real world. Difference is how strong you are and whether you encourage. My afternoon ended with "great to see you after all these years, take care". Could have gone further, but this is the difference between us and them.

Told my Mum and gave brother the full story. Both incredibly supportive and gave me alot of strength.

Contact with WW is minimal. I think reality is kicking in. Called last night, problem with TV in bedroom, stressed. Talked her through how to fix it. Txt last night, Goodnight best man I know + goodnight darling, we have lovely boys. I replied goodnight.

Called me in pm for help with work, said sorry, I know I shouldn't be doing this. Short replies from me, talked about boys, I talked business of separation and think she thought that strange. Had I contact OMW? Said I txted to say you knew. Silence afterwards, definitely fishing. Small talk, I gave short replies. Sounded low (what a shame).

Felt uneasy inside after a good day. For newbies here, this is why you should use the 180 and minimise contact or they will always be tugging your heartstrings and making you feel crap.

This hovering she is doing is not good and I find that absence makes my heart grow stronger (if you know what I mean).

Staying strong and great to have people around me that care.

Felt uneasy inside after a good day. For newbies here, this is why you should use the 180 and minimise contact or they will always be tugging your heartstrings and making you feel crap.

Not only that, but you are not letting her miss you (or appreciate what life as a single mom without her bestfriend will be like. She absolutely should not be calling you for work help. What is there to miss if you are still there for her in the ways she wants you to be there but she gets to throw the marriage away? I wonder if some of the advice you are getting is giving you false hope and frankly I agree with your WS in that you come off as in denial and desperately holding on after she's made it clear that she wants out you are still talking R(which is why she comments about stalking her and not accepting that she loves OM) You can still hope for & leave the door open for R and it might happen of course, but maybe don't talk about it anymore. Try to appear stronger rather than as desperately waiting in the wings in case OM throws her under the bus. Consider reading the 20/20 hindsight of what I wish I'd done post for strength and insight. 180 is for you. I remember when I had no choice but to go the 180 route because my h was in a treatment center and basically not allowed outside contact. I couldn't believe the peace I felt and the strength I gained during that 6 weeks period in time. If your gut is telling you that engaging her in conversation is wrong, listen to your gut. It will help you in the long run and in the process might even end up opening her eyes to the harsh reality as to what life without you might be like. Good luck!

[This message edited by alluringillusion at 5:16 PM, September 21st (Tuesday)]

Push away her conversations when they turn about issues that frankly don‘t concern you.

Like her first conversation. Good answers would have been:

You are totally free to do whatever you want.

How I react to OM is no concern of yours.

How you interact with kids when they are in your care is not something I can impact.

Regarding work:

You should refer her to OM. He is in her organization isn’t he? Tell her that you can’t be in that part of her life anymore. That she has to adapt to the idea that you are not available as a friend or part-time husband.

Be careful talking separation issues. If you don’t want to separate then allow her to initiate all separation steps unless she actively sees OM. If she does that then you step things up.

Ozzy- All in all I think you are doing great. Yes – you can start asserting yourself and being firmer. Yes – you definitely should start letting her know your recovery train is leaving the station and she better start running to jump on board. But so far you haven’t closed any doors and the progress is OK. Now try not to phone or contact her for some days.

Thanks for the advice, and this is what I have been thinking about.

Found out reason why she was fishing about OMW. Spoke to her last night after I called my sons - OM is so jealous of me contacting OMW that he has gone running back to her with his tail between his legs - her words, not mine.

So to all newbies - Yes, contact OMW, you may get conflict from your spouse, but it does bring things into the open.

She talked about separation, was it good. I said no, bad on kids, us and finances but until she is willing to work on marriage, then necessary. Still not willing, so separation going ahead.

Finished off with her saying we will always be good friends, I said no, that comes as part of the package of being a husband and I have been fired from that position. If you do not want recon, then we are two former business partners with a mutual interest in our children, not each others new businesses.

She was obviously taken aback by that.

My view now is follow advice and not to talk about future, let her initiate this.

Still feeling good, there is a world out there!

Ah, the "we can be friends" speech. She leaves you hanging for 8 months, leaves to be with her lover in another country while you have no real idea what they were doing or talking about, comes back and tells you that she loves him more than you, is going to be hurting her kids, accuses you of making it worse by talking to the OM's wife BUT she is your friend.

I think some WSs have this need to make themselves look like the good guy by acting ever so nice while they stick the knife in. That way they can tell everyone how amicable it all is.

You are doing all the right things, so stick to the plan. Keep the faith, baby!

By the way, I sent you a pm about a similar case I know of if you want more info on how that worked out.

Ozzy,

I‘m going to look into my crystal ball and see her next actions:

She’s going to press on the “why can’t we be friends” issue. She will imply you are being mean and boorish on this issue. Your response (IMHO) should be on the lines of

a) How many divorced friends does she have where the W and H are still good friends? Amicable – great. Can set aside differences to be at family gatherings – great. Can talk rationally about children’s goals and progress – great. But “friends”? Chances are none.

b) This is just an inevitably. It’s not something you are doing intentionally or out of spite. It’s simply something that case after case shows and proves: people that divorce drift apart.

c) This divorce is not a joint decision. It’s not as if you wanted this. So you have to remove yourself from her in order to heal. It’s not revenge, spite or being petty. It’s simply personal survival.

She’s going to go into how you drove off OM.

a) Avoid talking about OM. Avoid talking about OMW. If she persists then point out that all you did was talk to his wife. You never placed any pressure on the wife nor the OM. Your wife should ask OM about his commitment to the relationship to her and not question you. If she insists then you should try to be firm in letting her know that she is risking this marriage and the future of the children on a fantasy. But never allow her to pull you into an argument over this.

Ozzy – I am EXTREMELY goal oriented. I see what you are going through as a war. When fighting a war it’s not important to win each and every battle. Sometimes it can be strategically good to lose a battle AS LONG as you win the war. [George Washington lost MOST of the battles he took part in – BUT he won the important ones and thereby the war]. So what I am going to suggest WILL sound as if you are giving ground… but it isn’t.

When and if you reconcile you two HAVE to do all the work required. Part of that is her total admittance of her fault in having an affair. Part of that is recognizing the pain she caused. Part of that is remorse and regret. BUT NONE OF THAT is necessary right now when getting her to open up to reconciliation. To start reconciliation basically the ONLY requirement is that the affair is over. If done correctly the other factors will be dealt with at the right time and pace.

So do think of a recovery plan. What can you suggest that will make her see a path back as feasible? What can you offer that will make her feel she can come back without having (initially) to shoulder the total blame for what’s going on? No – it’s not a selling out – it’s losing a skirmish or giving ground to set up a bigger, more strategically important victory.

Some suggestions:

On reflection you regret how you allowed your marriage to reach this stage and fully acknowledge your part in that.

Financially you two are reaching stability – would be such a shame to throw that away.

Your children and the love you had in the beginning deserves you give it a shot.

edited to add:

One final thing: Never offer the path back unless she asks for it! She has to tell you that even if she wants back she can’t see a way or something like that. I learned as a cop (and have had this confirmed nearly daily as a manager) that people have a hard time admitting they are wrong or caused something to go astray. Once you offer them a “clean” way to confess they will (Yes – the car skidded but only because of the rain as Bigger pointed out – not because I was driving like a maniac)

[This message edited by Bigger at 12:49 PM, September 22nd (Wednesday)]

Well, still in UK. Went to see a friend. Very happy couple, perfectly matched. I think because of this, I felt very low, crap about my sitch.

Spoke to wife in afternoon about kids, she is finding week without support hard. Told her I felt crap inside and lost without her. She has missed me but thinks this chapter in her life is closed. Told her not to think she cannot turn around from the road she is taking. She thinks it is too late.

I just said "That is your choice, and you have to work out where you want to go".

Hard to be on this rollercoaster as you all well know. Just got to focus on the future - she is moving out, nothing I can do. Look after my boys and myself. Just very hard when you can see so much that we had, and she cannot.

Just venting, will pick myself up tomorrow. Thanks a million for the advice Bigger. You are keeping me focussed.

Its hard accepting the fact that they have moved on and you havent. thats where I am. I want her to see what she is leaving behind, But I can't turn her head and make her see it. You know the old saying you can lead a hors to water, but you can't make it drink. our WS's will need to see it for themselves, meanwhile all we can do is sit and wait, hoping and praying that they see it before it is to late.

OK. you did a slight backslide on the 180, but at least she knows how you feel. You now know that trying to reason with her is a waste of time, at least now. So stay on the 180 and be strong. Women love strong men so project strength. Even if it does not help in the long run for her return (which by now you may not even want) but it will certainly help your mental well being. It is still very early in this game so don't get discouraged. Stay on your path.

She has missed me but thinks this chapter in her life is closed.

Translation: The OM is talking to me and stringing me along telling me to "just wait" for him.

I have now read through all the pages of this post and have to comment.

Yes, you often have appeared weak and in desparate need of her. Yes you have not stood up to her. In the early period after DDay for me -- I doubled, tripled - probably quadrupled the mistakes you have made. I just kept trying to tell her why I was worthwhile. I was pitiful!

And the response I got was just what you have gotten. Month after month.

So what happened? I finally got fed up with "pleading my case". I finally decided -if you can't see what a good deal I am and treat me accordingly - then go out into the world and see just how lovely it is to be alone.

And I started telling her that. And as I was talking the talk - I started walking the walk. And the more I did that, the better I felt about myself. And the better I felt about myself, the more she noticed the change in me; and that started to worry her.

Because she started realizing that I was getting close to just not giving a shit. And she started to fear that if I reached that point - that the choice would no longer be hers. That I would find someone and leave her. And deep in her heart, she knew she didn't want that.

And that is when the changes started for the positive.

It was difficult to start talking the talk and walking the walk. I was so fearful at first that I would drive her away for good.

Looking back now -- I can see that the fear made me seem so weak that I looked like the weak and uninteresting person she tried to portray me as in her screwed up mind/fantasy world. I also have come to see that if she had never changed course and we had separated, hard as it might have been, it would have been for the best. Because having to live in constant fear and always be pleading for her to see me as worthy was NOT a life.

So be strong. Let her have to contemplate life on her own. Let her know that you will be fine and can make a new life for yourself. The effect on her, hopefully, will surprise you.

1985, you give very good advice. In the words of Fight Club, it is only when you have lost everything that you are truly free.

It is scary, and sometimes I wonder why I am holding out so much (comfort zone, memories of what we had, kids), but you are right.

A common human trait is we always want what we can´t have.

We just need to remember this once in a while

Well, back in Iceland after a week in the UK and feeling low already. Out of 7 days away, had 2 weak ones and 5 when I felt good. Saw WW this morning and we have talked on phone during the day. FANTASTIC to see the kids again though :)

She had a tough week with the kids, worried about moving out, finances blah, blah. Missed me, but not enough to stay and work on M!

While I was away, I wrote up 54 reasons not to stay married and 7 to stay married! Why do we have this devotion??

As racttrac said, we so much want to turn their head and show them what they are doing, hold them in our arms, make them see how they are hurting their family, but it always falls on deaf ears.

Going to sit down with the boys tonight and talk to them.

I swear WW thinks this is one big adventure, but I know and she has said she is shxting herself and feels crap when she thinks about moving out of the home.

Had to really bite my tongue and avoid digging during every conversation with comments like "This is your choice", "You choose this rather than work on your M with a man who you say is the best man you know" "You´ve known about this for 3 months, and now you worry about money? Maybe you shouldn´t have bought all those clothes and played golf all the time during the summer" "You made you bed (with someone else) and now you have to lie in it"!!

Really going to have to take those anti-bitterness pills regularly! Working on a balance between compassion and detachment.

Just venting here, nothing has changed in our sitch, but am going to have to read the 180 every hour this week!

Actually Ozzy you should not hesitate to make it clear to her that all that is happening is due to her decisions. That’s basically what it all boils down to – there is no law of nature or irrevocable force making this happen. Just like her decisions to date have caused this situation, as well as your decision not to share her then all that is needed to reverse this is a decision. Just be careful that when you do tell her this you do so in a matter-of-fact sort of way. Your comment about the golf and money spending for example would be counter-productive.

Hope all goes well telling the boys.

Ozzy – very soon you will have to step things up a notch. Once you talk to the boys the best path is to make clear and decisive decisions. For them it’s better to have a clear picture of what’s going on.

Well, the punches just keep coming!

Evening out this coming Friday, WW has known about this for weeks (just me going). She moves out on Friday. Reminded her I would be out, and the general feeling has always been she stays home as I will get in very late. Says ok.

Calls back 20 minutes late, arranged for niece to babysit, and niece will sleep over so I can stay out late.

Asked WW if she could not just stay one more night in house she has lived in for 6 yrs. Sorry, first night in flat, want to organise things. I said fine, will be home by 11pm as no way is niece sleeping over. WW thinks I am being stubborn. Short ending is she is planning to go downtown with friend to cheer herself up and did not want to cancel this to look after her kids for one more night!

Talked to kids on Monday night. WW appeared to have pretty much told my S12, so S9 was the challenge. Mum/Dad not getting on, need space, Mum moving out. Look on his face then was fright. WW said don't worry, still family and will see each other every day. S9 says phew, some of my friends parents separate and they don't see each other for days. Stared hard at WW. Short ending - felt like she had sugarcoated the whole thing and after she acted like Wow! That was easy, now I can start my new life with no guilt! I felt bad and am worried for the boys over next few weeks. Selfishly that she has again got off with a free pass, but thinking of the kids, it was a good way to lay the the groundwork.

WW called yesterday pm, worried about money, getting a fidge. I offered to buy a cheap, nasty one and she take ours (gift from her sister). WW getting stressed, tried to turn collapse of M on me, my fault. I stayed calm and remembered BIGGERS advice.

Cut to last night, (WW been friendly last 3 days, I have followed 180 as these actions and my time in UK has got me out of my fog and seen her for what she is) and she is going out.

As I walk past the open bedroom door, I see her going into her knicker drawer and then pulling her hand out and looking guilty. I do not react. A few months ago she asked me not to go into her drawers as they were private.

Yes, it's like telling a child not to eat too many sweets. I am guilty and invaded her privacy while she was out!

On top of her sexy lacey lingerie was a wallet/folder. Carefully opened it and found the equivalent of over 4,000 dollars in Norwegian kronurs, a bank slip confirming the withdrawl of this money from OM's account dated 6th April and his credit card (still active).

I was stunned. All this panic about money. her saying moving out so hard, will struggle with money. My God! I know this is not the worst that has happened, and I am sure I can read worse stories, but she has basically been leading me on since April.

Maybe there is an explanation (looking after the cash for him), but I don't think so. WW of 15yrs is basically a prostitute!

How can the spouses look us in the face after so many loving yrs, hardships, children, births, deaths etc. and point blank stab us in the back?

Sine April she has said she has been trying, we have been very physically active since then, held hands, talked.

Even now when I threatened D the other day, she had a look of panic.

Lots of nasty plans last night as to what to do with the money. I was clever enough to photograph the card, cash and receipt, but ultimately, I am going to keep quiet and will use this later if I need to.

Considered calling OMW, but WW is moving out, so cannot see a benefit there (except to be a good human and expose her H).

Good news is, these blows help me see her as the selfish, manipulative, lost, self centred cold bitch she is, and not the wife I fell in love with.

Thanks to her actions, the 180 is very easy to follow now and I cannot wait until this cancer moves out tomorrow.

Sorry for the long post, bit of therapy for me.

(((ozzy344)))

Phew. What a piece of work your wife has turned out to be. No wonder you are stunned.

I wish there was something I could say to ease your pain.