SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I feel for ya Ozzy. It's like we're the responsible adult keeping it all together while they are out acting like teens. Yet, the bomb they dropped on our lives have left us in shambles and we're barely able to keep us together let along our children.

It sounds like you're keeping it all together pretty well in front of your boys and you will see in time that that was pretty important. So, good job Dad!

Now, that your boys are probably safely asleep you are allowing yourself to really feel the feelings and they suck! Trust me, I know.

Tomorrow is a new day, let's see where it leads you. I hope you get some good news but this tends to be a long and drawn out process that doesn't resolve itself very quickly. Hope you get a decent nights rest. Please keep us posted.

Hi, met OM´s wife today, met her before socially, she is the same as me, a wreck. Had a good talk, both agreed very theraputic. Stories match up. She is not sure she wants H, but like me scared for the future. We agreed to keep in touch. Lovely person, why do our spouses do this after 10 plus years of marriage? Get it out of your system after the first few years and decide.

Her WS is on the fence, wants M but making no effort to save M. Having his cake and eating it.

W calling during the day, why? Friendly, had time to think in Norway. Talked about non-A related work thing. Basically company car that she is using and may have to give back. Gave advice, said she will have to talk to OM about his as he is in charge of finance.

Sadly I rose to the bait and said, talk to your boss about it and he can contact OM. NC with OM She was suprised by this!!!

Said if you want recon, must stop talking to OM, your boss can do this (who knows the situation).

Said if we lose car, will have to buy new one - do I have any money hidden away otherwise we can't get new car. Replied she should have thought of this before she got into this mess. Her answer was "Ohh, that was a dig, twist the knife further" When do they realise the crap we are going through and accept responsibility?

Separation is on the horizon, saddest thing is we will not tell the kids the real reason why, so I'm also painted as the Dad that broke up the family. Ain't life a bitch - and then you marry one!

Apart from that, been a good day - swimming, S9 went to party, afterwards we played mini golf and had pizza.

Another day done, gotta keep remembering the future will be brighter.

Sounds like she is very much in the fog and only thinking about herself.

If she's been in an EA for 8 months and it has gone to PA, it's not over by a long shot no matter what she says.

I've been there, the trickle truth, etc., I would be willing to bet the PA started earlier than she tells you now.

Not only do you have the emotional rollercoaster of finding out, you're going to end up going through a period of wondering if you know eveerything and then finally getting enough to know what you need to do for yourself.

Good luck, there's lots of support here along with a few 2x4s to wake up yourself, you need to.

~LL

Just a short note:

Said if we lose car, will have to buy new one - do I have any money hidden away otherwise we can't get new car.

Tell her that there is an old and established term for people that exchange sexual favors for financial gain.

Nah... don‘t tell her... But this does cut into a core issue. If you two decide to reconcile then getting a new job will become a major issue.

It‘s up to you to keep things logical.

If you two divorce I certainly hope you both act as good co-parents. I hope you set aside personal differences to make and take the best decision at each and every time for the kids. But you have to make one thing clear to her: you won‘t be friends.

Think about it. You probably know people that have divorced. They might be amicable but it‘s an extremely rare case where they are FRIENDS. That‘s because we divorce people we are not compatible with. We detach to ease the pain. So if she tells you that you are her best friend then firmly tell her “no”. You will be nice and amicable but friends…. No.

Same with car. If you separate and divorce then whether she can afford another car in lieu of the company car isn’t your issue. You certainly won’t be driving around in it.

Same with finances. If you separate you split the finances.

Same with work advice. How she goes about keeping the car or getting compensated for losing it is irrelevant to you if you separate.

So on all these issues simply tell her: Until you decide on what path you are on these issues don’t concern me.

I don’t get the reason for why you are going to ignore the truth. Why you are shouldering the blame for breaking up the family. You SHOULD be very vocal on this: We are separating because WW is having an affair with [put name of OM here]. The kids should be told at the appropriate time in the appropriate way.

I KNOW this all sounds harsh and hard but it’s honestly put out there with the pure intent of INCREASING your chances of saving this marriage.

Every instict is telling me she is having a total fling this weekend. Her texts, in and of themselves, seem to imply that.

In your heart, do you really believe they are just "talking?" If not, no matter what she tells you, you know what to do.

Get strong, get healthy and be there for your kids.

Well, the bitch is back! Came in around 12.30am last night. Wasn´t planning on having a conversation with her at that time of night, so just said "did you work out what you needed to work out". Reply was yes. Put simply, She is choosing her feelings for OM over our marriage.

Care for me, friends but cannot work on marriage as I can´t change these feelings. Not going to run away into the sunset together, but these feelings are too strong. Wanted a PA while over there but out of respect for me, did not (irrelevant issue now).

Tried logic of - not can´t change feelings but don´t want to, choosing to destroy family because you want these feelings in your head and not try with me, friend + caring love + good physical relationship + family = spouse, but not, still way in the fog.

Before I came on website, I was thinking what do I do now, but Bigger has already answered what my feeling is. We cannot be friends and I have to detach big time.

I did say to her that if her feelings were strong enough to make it financially hard for us and emotionally scar our boys, maybe she should tell them about her feelings.

Tempting thing to do, but in reality this would just hurt our children to get back at her.

This is going to be hard not being friends but still under the same roof, but I am going to stand by what I committed to last week - she is not over him, she loses me.

Still on the separation path, she just has to find a place. 6 long days until I go to UK for a break and see my family.

Shaking with anger but at least I have my closure.

So Sorry Ozzy.

I suspected this may happen if she was allowed to go to see OM before making the decision on R or D...

Her going and being in close proximity has likely only strengthened her feelings for OM.

Oh, and she did have sex with him over there, but you know that though don't you. You cannot believe her.

It is now extremely important that you do not have any unprotected sex with her, just in case she is pregnant to OM, you would not want her to be dumped by OM and then try to pass off OM baby as yours. It is much easier if there is no way you could have impregnated her!

Take care.. look after yourself.

PR

[This message edited by PhoenixReborn at 3:16 AM, September 13th (Monday)]

Ozzy,

I‘m sorry things turned out like this.

However it’s not the worst possible outcome. Remaining where you were is indefinitely worse. Remaining in infidelity is the absolutely worst possible outcome of all. Now at least you have the ability to KNOW you can move out of infidelity.

It’s a bit like being lost in the desert. All around you see nothing but sand and dunes. All of a sudden you see smoke miles away in the horizon. OK – you have a long and tough walk ahead but at least you have a goal to reach.

Do NOT take my advice as meaning you should be cold and revengeful. It’s more that you should be realistic and pragmatic. You don’t have to stop talking to your wife right now BUT each and every time she starts talking about issues that SHOULD be discussed with a husband and friend you gently remind her you have been fired from both posts.

Now – one thing you should definitely do is tell the OMW about your wife’s decision. Your wife would NOT decide to do this unless influenced by what OM said or did not say. There can be a world of difference between what his wife hears and what your wife heard.

About the kids. No – there is no need to paint their mom as a home wrecker. That does not mean you should hide the truth forever. In the following weeks you have to take extreme care to protect and shelter the kids. Talk to their schools and their teachers. Get the help and support you are entitled to. Iceland has a great social support system and you should utilize that to the max.

Whether she had sex with OM in Norway or not… Ozzy – it’s a moot issue. Don’t spend time worrying about it.

I'm kinda wondering if it really isn't already over for you Ozzie, and that you needed to do this in order to have one final slap in the face.

Good Luck

Hang in there, we are all here for you.

Thanks for your time Bigger, head still throbbing but I have calmed down slightly.

You are absolutely right, and no, although it would give me short term satisfaction, I am not going to be cold towards WW, but as you say, not a husband or friend.

She spoke on phone after my post, wanted me to understand that her feelings towards OM are same as mine towards hers. I am sure she is not telling the whole story concerning plans for the future. Email followed hour later - please don´t make this harder than it is.

Will talk to OMW tomorrow, want to let the dust settle today.

Sorry for the blow by blow account, but it gets things off my chest a bit.

Feeling at the moment is file for D, but I know a trial separation is better for the children, and I have to put them first before what I want. Thanks everyone for being there.

Email followed hour later - please don´t make this harder than it is.

Ohh..she doesn't know what hard is....you have made this way too easy for her....

Goodbye is short and to the point.

Ozzy, sorry to hear that your weekend came to a crappy end with the return of your WW.

Please take with a pinch of salt what she says about not having a PA whilst away in Norway with him. Feel she may be keeping the truth there. Can't believe that they just talked and have decided to go forward together without anything physical happening.

You sound a strong guy who knows in his heart, even if the head is a bit slower in reacting, what has to happen now. You are a strong person who cares deeply for his kids and wife and I know you will do your upmost to protect your boys from this horrible mess which is about to engulf you all.

Do keep in touch with OMW. You may find you will both help each other in your move forward.

Keep posting and try to 180, 180 with your WW. Your getting tons of sound advice from some very knowledgeable posters such as Bigger and Aliveagain.

Sending you big hugs

Here is my reply to her "it´s hard for me email". Maybe this will help others in a similar situation..

You have consistently avoided and made no attempt to work on our relationship, choosing to nurture your feelings for OM instead of your feelings for me.

I don´t think you are telling me the whole story about your futures.

I love you but I cannot share you. This love will not last forever if you do not work on it and continue to see/be in contact with OM.

I still think we can reconcile in the future, but this belief will get less each time I hear of you contacting OM.

You say you love this family and your boys, how have you shown this?

In the near future, we are going to have to tell our boys that we are separating. I hope your feelings are strong enough to be able to look them in the eye and deal with their emotions.

At some point, they will want to know more than just “Mum and Dad have grown apart“ (this conversation will never be started by me – it is between you and them). I hope you will be able to look them in the eye when you explain the feelings you have for OM are stonger than your family.

I will be civil and fair, but for the moment, you have lost your husband and best friend.

Bigger - Thanks for some earlier advice on what to say, I´m finally starting to use it! :)

Sorry to hear, Ozzy but Bigger is right (again) at least you know where you stand and you can make some informed, thoughtful decisions. Being in limbo is a million times worse for everyone.

However, I don't think it's over just yet. She just came back from spending a few days with OM and I'm sure it has been played up in her mind as an exciting, new adventure with a man who is so in love with her that he is willing to throw it all away. In actuality, many of these affairs it's just a man or woman cheating on their spouse, period. Nothing more. I'm interested in what OMW is going to tell you. I have a feeling it won't be as clear cut as what your wife told you. Especially, as time goes by and he gets on with his life and realizes that he really doesn't want all the hassles that divorcing his wife to take on with your wife would require.

Just focus on the kids and keeping them away from this mess. Keep things civil with your wife and see how it goes these next few days.

"Don't make this harder than it has to be."

Just get out the K-Y jelly and apply it to yourself, I guess.

Are you f'in kidding me?

Ozzy, looks to me like you've made it way too easy. At this point in the process, nice guys finish last.

Why are you sharing space with this woman? What is it that you think you owe her? To have you and your kids' home used as a launching pad for her to out and get fucked by some jerk who's already cheating on his own wife?

180. Conversations limited to parenting. Kick her to the curb, seek custody of your children, and get some popcorn, and watch what happens.

Get out of infidelity now. The earlier you act the less heartache you will have in the future. Set an example for your kids.

180. Time to get medieval.

I can only endorse Biggers words wholeheartedly; be friendly but distant - certainly not friends.

I would like to recommend that you seriously consider filing for divorce as soon as she moves out. If you just do nothing she will stretch this thing out as long as she can while she 'tries out' the OM.

Get that clock ticking on your marriage; don't give her indefinite time to act as the OM's mistress while you sit at home pining and wondering if she will ever come back. Meanwhile she is introducing your kids to the OM hoping that he will take on your role one day soon.

File now, keep the pressure on her; don't wait until she files after the OM moves in. Don't let her be the decision maker and set the pace while you passively wait for the execution of your marriage.

Publicize the affair and her destructive decisions to friends and family; make sure that they realize that the impending divorce is her fault, as is the damage to your children's lives.

Remember if she wakes up and embraces reality, [like the OM going back to his wife], you can always cancel the divorce proceedings if you so wish. It may take a year or so to divorce, don't unnecessarily waste time on a separation which solely benefits your wife.

Above all get angry; you have been disrespected and humiliated. Don't be a victim any longer.

Ozzy

I hope I can my strategy for you across in a clear and concise way. If anything is unclear – let me know.

IMHO she has had the affair. It’s probably ongoing. Whether she has sex with OM once again or one hundred times again really isn’t an issue. The ONLY issues in my mind are what YOU want. What you want is limited by several factors: Obviously by what you want, then by what you can get and last by what you settle on.

I have this theory that affairs can be split into active and inactive infidelity. Active is when the affair is ongoing – physically, emotionally and so on. Inactive is when there is little or no contact between the AP but the WS is still thinking the affair is a valid option. I have a feeling that’s where your wife is.

I also have another theory. Actually it’s not mine (any more than most things I put forth). It’s the theory that affairs are seldom – if ever – about the OP. Your WW is not in love with the OM because he’s so great. She’s in love with the emotions that having the affair with OM offer her. This is why messing directly with the OM won’t work but messing with WW emotions might. That’s why trying to tell her OM isn’t committing, isn’t’ doing this or isn’t doing that won’t help. She has to see for herself that OM is what he is.

OK – with me so far?

Then I also have this theory: Right now your WW feels guilt, hurt and shame for her actions. So she interacts with you to ease that guilt. To ease the guilt she will try to cause conflict to get you to react negatively – sort of to justify her own actions: “see how Ozzy reacts – this is why the marriage was doomed”. Eventually this will lead to her emotions turning from guilt to compassion and then to pity. Once it reaches pity state there is no return.

So… don’t fall into her trap of negative confrontation. Deal with this in a detached matter of fact sort of way.

Be realistic on all options: How to divide finances, debts, commitments, custody. Don’t give way on realistic and necessary causes BUT don’t enter arguments about non-issues.

For example: if she starts talking about how you neglected her (or vice-versa) then QUICKLY tell her “That is interesting and IF we decide to reconcile then that’s something that we really have to look into BUT since the affair is ongoing there is no purpose, gain or need to enter this discussion”.

Don’t initiate any relationship issues. Be very clear on that you are at the moment willing to work on things but ONLY if the affair is over. While she’s in the affair then you are soldiering on.

Ozzy – this is the time you have to start thinking of yourself. Seek help. You don’t have family around but what about friends? You need to vent, to let off steam. This is exactly the time you start jogging, the gym, taking walks… Make sure you eat. Make sure you tend to yourself.

I know that the emotional and welfare needs of the children need to come first; however, if they are used to mum being away for work, and so therefore not present in the house, I would be tempted to insist on an immediate out-of-house separation, so she goes and stays with a friend now, with a visitation schedule agreed.

Otherwise, I agree with a complete 180, and only kids and finance discussed.

I'm sorry she has chosen to chase a fantasy vision of herself untrammelled by the everyday of bills and laundry etc. and emotionally dependent on another man instead of real fulfillment (seeking the answers of fulfillment within). The attachment to the idea of OM (or rather her idea of herself) is the opposite of the liberation she feels she needs, it is still not self-definition.

Have you provided/ suggested any reading for her that might cause her to ponder upon the fantasy aspects of her choices? And how an A feeds a need that is perceived rather than specific?

Articles/ books suggested could be suggested to her out of genuine concern for her 'state of mind', so that she does not suspect you are 'enlightening' her for your own sake merely.

Edited to add this as an example:

'Romantic affairs lead to a great many divorces, suicides, homicides, heart attacks, and strokes, but not to very many successful remarriages. No matter how many sacrifices you make to keep the love alive, no matter how many sacrifices your family and children make for this crazy relationship, it will gradually burn itself out when there is nothing more to sacrifice to it. Then you must face not only the wreckage of several lives, but the original depression from which the affair was an insane flight into escape.

People are most likely to get into these romantic affairs at the turning points of life: when their parents die or their children grow up; when they suffer health crises or are under pressure to give up an addiction; when they achieve an unexpected level of job success or job failure; or when their first child is born—any situation in which they must face a lot of reality and grow up. The better the marriage, the saner and more sensible the spouse, the more alienated the romantic is likely to feel. Romantic affairs happen in good marriages even more often than in bad ones.'

[This message edited by Edie at 1:45 PM, September 13th (Monday)]

been following this one... sorry it's turned out this way, Ozzy, but I agree things are far from settled as yet.

I hate to sound any discordant note with another respondent, but IMO ozzy has already done far too much cajoling and persuading. We saw how that turned out.

In my personal experience, appeals to academic authority initiated by the heavily-invested BS are about as effective and welcome as appeals to religion or fate coming from WS ("Meeting OP was fate/God's plan for me," e.g. ). It has the distinct flavor of "I'm losing the argument here, so I'm gonna pull rank and let you debate my Big Bad Authority instead."

I'm in favor of the complete 180 here, with neither begging nor negativity on ozzy's part, but simply the strong message of "OK, I am moving on" (which is far better demonstrated than said).