SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I can only speak for me, but I find it funny you would say "everyone" has a point where they would cheat, they've just not reached.

Not quite what I said. I said I believe that everyone has the potential to cheat, under the right (or wrong) circumstances. Close, but not the same thing. And, much like you, I am a BS, and I had many opportunities to cheat. I didn't. In the middle of my XF's slut-fest I was offered NSA sex by a much younger and much more attractive co-worker. I turned her down. However, it is notable that so many people who do cheat genuinely thought they never could. They believed that as strongly as you do. Yet they did.

There are some where it's so offensive that it would never be considered. I view it like I would stabbing someone. It is something that I would never be able to bring myself to do.

Really? You couldn't stab someone under any circumstances? How about to save your life? Or to save your wife's life? Or your child's?

Never and always are very long words. And seldom true.

I had breast augmentation 1 1/2 years ago. My H is the WS, not me. I have never cheated on him and have no interest in any other guys. I had the surgery to make me feel better about myself, and to please him. He's still making the payments. If I wanted to cheat, I had plenty of opportunity, boob job or no. There are plenty of other ways to attract, and keep, guys than with just boobs (tho I will admit that it certainly does help!).

I have implants. My Ex would make it a huge on going issue to let me know I was just very lacking in that area. I listend to that and more for 14 years. He had low self esteem and I guess he felt like I should too. Well after my divorce I got implants. I may show them to the rest of the world if I want to but there is 1 person (my X) that will never have the chance to see them. I love them!!!!!

[This message edited by worried_lady at 12:04 AM, September 22nd (Wednesday)]

Really? You couldn't stab someone under any circumstances? How about to save your life? Or to save your wife's life? Or your child's?

Oh hell yeah....I could kill someone (if our lives were in danger), I just couldn't cheat on them.

Identify any group of people---any group)--and you will find people within that demographic who have voids they are willing to attempt to fill with infidelity.

If we were to follow all patients who had their gall bladders removed in 2009, for example, I think we could come up with some startling statistics about the incidence of infidelity post-cholecystectomy.

But really---the two would be completely unrelated.

I think it likely that the connections between infidelity and procedures such as breast augmentation and bariatric surgery are similarly tenuous.

The incidence of divorce post bariatric surgery is high. It doesn't appear as though the incidence of infidelity is higher than in the general population, however.

Why is the divorce rate higher? Sometimes, there's greater impetus to leave a relationship that was bad. Sometimes, the person finds his/her voice. Often, s/he learns to value him/herself enough to leave a relationship that is (and has been) unfulfilling or, worse, abusive.

(And no, there are NO circumstances in which I would be unfaithful. I would kill to protect my children, to be sure---but the only similar situation relating to sex I can think of is rape. And I don't really view rape as infidelity--it is violence.)

Someone said something along lines of changing their appearance FIRST to attract others. I personally think it's the opposite; I think the attraction comes after and it makes them want more (i.e. to look better, start makes other changes, notice new 'friends'). That's how it was in the situations I know IRL. The appearance totally changed first; then the newfound attention got out of control.

Palerider,

thanks for the link.

I noticed that one of the questions was 'earliest use of hair color'! I laughed out loud at that one. Wasn't expecting it.

However, it is notable that so many people who do cheat genuinely thought they never could. They believed that as strongly as you do. Yet they did.

No direct offense, but your not really changing what you basically said and that was what I was addressing was this statement:

I believe that everyone has the potential to cheat, under the right (or wrong) circumstances.

I pretty sure you didn't mean it to be challenging or offensive, but sorry some of us took it that way.

That's call generalization and in some cases transference.

It's like someone who says "Hey everyone steals under the right circumstances and if you say you don't your a liar."

Now you are really entitled to your own opinion, and I have no problem with that, but I was saying don't lump me (and some others) into that opinion.

For example you know how hard it was going 22 years as a virgin when everyone around me was having sex and bragging about how 'great' it was?

Not to mention how submerged the world of TV, movies, and advertising makes it seem if your not sleeping with someone there is something wrong with you.

I loved it when everyone first starting saying that everyone was having sex and when I said "I'm not" they first laughed at me and said I was lying because everyone was doing it. I challenged them to name one person I was doing it with in high school. Then they laughed at me as one of the few virgins in school.

Then I asked one question, why would I be honest enough to sit and tell them that I wasn't having sex in high school, subject myself to all their insults and pranks, if I didn't deeply believe it in?

It was the same in college. Everyone was sleeping with everyone. Thankfully I lived close enough I could drive to the campus so I didn't have to stay in dorms, but the pressure to sleep around was even greater then than at any time. I mean "EVERYONE" was doing it.

Yet I was still driven enough to stay that way because I don't, and never have, believed in premarital sex. But that is "ME". If someone else believes in it, then its not MY place to tell them they are wrong. I don't walk around smacking them with a bible saying where they are going for being a sinner. While most of my beliefs comes from pretty strong religious background, I don't sit and examine someone elses life. Mine is pretty screwed up and I have enough on my plate as it is.

But this belief was strong enough that I didn't ever engage in it and never would, regardless of what my stupid WW did. That may be why there is a gulf between us because I believed her lies and felt such a betrayal on multiple fronts, but I still refused to do it for years before I met her and I still find it just as deplorable to consider doing it now.

So when you insist on claiming that "everyone" as you said in your original post would do it given the right circumstances, to me that says that everything I went through, every slight, insult, ribbing, joke, or ordeal in my life that I believed in and backed was a lie because you're saying that I've just not met that one temptation I can't resist yet, and I call bull, because resisting this daily is who I am.

Just like there are people who can't swim due to a fear or water, or who can't climb stairs due to a fear of heights. Some can get over these fears, others no matter how much help and counseling they get still can't get past them. Its part of who they are and they can't let it go.

The ability to cheat is not in me and I embrace that, and regardless of what you say I will never do it, and if you don't believe me you are free to do so, but then I'll have to start to wonder about transference again .....

Really? You couldn't stab someone under any circumstances? How about to save your life? Or to save your wife's life? Or your child's?

I have a 2nd Degree brown belt in Tae Kwon Do. I boxed for a number of years. I also practiced Shao Lin (form of Kung Fu) as well as Judo.

If I can't disarm or stop someone without resorting to "stabbing" them then I'm already screwed.

I've been in more fights growing up that one should in my neighorhood, and later as while I was doing martial arts than you can imagine. I was ranked third in the tri-state area. I've been jumped, teamed up on, and backed in a corner in fights. Yet I've never resorted to doing "anything" to win.

I've even taken the short end of a beating because I couldn't make myself do lasting damage to someone even in anger.

So to answer you question "No I have been in those situations before and I "STILL" have not resorted to doing whatever it takes to win." The one time I hit someone in anger in 6th grade I still have guilt over. I was so much stronger than other kids at my age and that fear is still with me because a single punch gave him such a black eye that it was swollen closed with in the hour and that fight was right before school started and I had to look at his face during the day and on the way home. I'm 41 and I still feel guilty over that even now.

It's who I am. Period. I learned martial arts to learn to control the situation and "not" do lasting damage to anyone for any reason.

So I guess that is what I'm trying to tell you.

I have people telling me all the time that they can't understand why I fight to disable and not to harm. Some have said that they don't believe me until I show them. I would rather leave a hostile situation/area than stand and prove my right to be there.

But like I said, I'll defend myself. I've trained in enough martial arts I "Can" stop almost all attackers, but I will not "stab/shoot/or maim someone" because of any situation.

So yes there will never be "any" circumstances where I would feel I could do that. Just because you don't believe me again doesn't make it not so.

PS: The way I feel right now I might find myself still debating the wisdom of stopping an attack on my WW if it was by some of the BW/BGF's.

I'm not saying that I wouldn't stop a lasting harmful attack, but there were times early one where the fantasy of some of the BW/BGF's getting their revenge on her happened and I just walk away and let them.

edit: sorry for the t/j. I'll stop now.

I don't believe I'll change any minds of folks determined everyone can/will cheat, but I just wanted to answer one last point.

[This message edited by JustSoTired2 at 8:40 AM, September 22nd (Wednesday)]

I have implants. My Ex would make it a huge on going issue to let me know I was just very lacking in that area. I listend to that and more for 14 years. He had low self esteem and I guess he felt like I should too. Well after my divorce I got implants. I may show them to the rest of the world if I want to but there is 1 person (my X) that will never have the chance to see them. I love them!!!!!

It surprises me how many are making this such a personal thread. No one is saying, "If YOU get implants, then YOU will have an affair!"

The original poster had the idea that people with cosmetic surgery have an increased potential for infidelity. I agree, and here's why.

Whether it be implants, or gastric bypass or whatever, cosmetic surgery is exactly that -- "cosmetic!" ... designed to return or improve appearance. Regardless of the reason it's performed, that's what it does -- improves appearance and restores confidence. Does anyone disagree with this?

Persons with an improved appearance and confidence will typically attract an increased amount of attention from others. Does anyone disagree with this?

Admittedly there are people at both ends of the infidelity spectrum -- those who would NEVER EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES have an affair (we've heard from a few) and those who are born cheaters and will have affairs no matter what. The HUGE majority us fall somewhere in between. Does anyone disagree with this?

When attraction and attention from others increases, whether it be in intensity or in frequency, there are more opportunities for infidelity, more temptations for infidelity, and more willing partners for infidelity. And with all this there will be an increased number of good meaning people succombing to these opportunities, temptations and potential affair partners.

Does that make sense to anyone?

I had breast enhancement surgery and it didn't make me want to go out and cheat on my H!

No direct offense, but your not really changing what you basically said and that was what I was addressing was this statement:

No, I’m not changing what I said, I’m trying to clarify it.

I pretty sure you didn't mean it to be challenging or offensive, but sorry some of us took it that way.

No, I didn’t. I meant it as a statement of my personal opinion.

That's call generalization and in some cases transference.

Generalization is the proper way to make general statements. In fact, I know of no other way to do that.

It's like someone who says "Hey everyone steals under the right circumstances and if you say you don't your a liar."

No, it’s not. Particularly the “If you say you don’t you’re a liar” part. I neither said nor implied any such thing. You read that into it yourself. Why?

Now you are really entitled to your own opinion, and I have no problem with that, but I was saying don't lump me (and some others) into that opinion.

You, and everyone else on the planet, are automatically lumped into an opinion that includes everyone. No way around that. Why are you taking the most generalized statement possible so very personally?

For example you know how hard it was going 22 years as a virgin when everyone around me was having sex and bragging about how 'great' it was?

In fact, I do. I lost my virginity at 24.

Not to mention how submerged the world of TV, movies, and advertising makes it seem if your not sleeping with someone there is something wrong with you.

Ditto.

I loved it when everyone first starting saying that everyone was having sex and when I said "I'm not" they first laughed at me and said I was lying because everyone was doing it. I challenged them to name one person I was doing it with in high school. Then they laughed at me as one of the few virgins in school.

Ditto.

Then I asked one question, why would I be honest enough to sit and tell them that I wasn't having sex in high school, subject myself to all their insults and pranks, if I didn't deeply believe it in?

Ditto.

It was the same in college. Everyone was sleeping with everyone. Thankfully I lived close enough I could drive to the campus so I didn't have to stay in dorms, but the pressure to sleep around was even greater then than at any time. I mean "EVERYONE" was doing it.

Everyone? That’s precisely the same generalization you are taking issue with me about.

So when you insist on claiming that "everyone" as you said in your original post would do it given the right circumstances, to me that says that everything I went through, every slight, insult, ribbing, joke, or ordeal in my life that I believed in and backed was a lie because you're saying that I've just not met that one temptation I can't resist yet, and I call bull, because resisting this daily is who I am.

Again, you’re changing the words I wrote, which alters the meaning. Why?

What I wrote, exactly, was this:

I believe that everyone has the potential to cheat, under the right (or wrong) circumstances. (In fact, I think that people who say they would never cheat may be in greater danger of doing so, because they may not erect boundaries against it, since they don't think it's a danger.)

That carries a very different meaning than the one you are assigning it. The word potential being key. If, as I believe, everyone has the potential to cheat, given the right circumstances, then it follows that the only people who won’t cheat under any circumstances are those who aware of their own potential and prepare for it. Meaning that even those who will not cheat have the potential.

The ability to cheat is not in me and I embrace that, and regardless of what you say I will never do it, and if you don't believe me you are free to do so, but then I'll have to start to wonder about transference again .....

Then we will simply have to disagree. However, my post was not about you any more than it was about everyone on Earth, myself included, as I am also covered by the word “everyone”, so transference is a non-starter. Perhaps you should wonder instead why you are taking such personal affront to a general opinion?

I have a 2nd Degree brown belt in Tae Kwon Do. I boxed for a number of years. I also practiced Shao Lin (form of Kung Fu) as well as Judo.

The similarities between us are startling: I have a black belt in Kenpo, boxed for a number of years, studied escrima and (briefly) Han-bai kung-fu. I am larger than average, and having lifted weights for 26 years am stronger than average. None of this makes me invincible, puncture or bullet-proof.

If I can't disarm or stop someone without resorting to "stabbing" them then I'm already screwed.

No, you're screwed if you can't disarm or stop someone without stabbing them, and can't or won't stab them.

I have attended the funeral of a black belt who thought he could disarm a mugger who was armed with a knife. I’ve seen a number of black belts lose bar fights against “untrained” street fighters, and I’ve seen so many martial artist made absolute fools of while sparring with boxers that I will bet on the boxer or the street fighter every single time.

If someone is threatening the life of someone I love, and I have access to a weapon, I’ll use it. My job is to protect them by any means possible, not to show them how well trained and tough I am.

I've been in more fights growing up that one should in my neighorhood, and later as while I was doing martial arts than you can imagine. I was ranked third in the tri-state area. I've been jumped, teamed up on, and backed in a corner in fights. Yet I've never resorted to doing "anything" to win.

I've even taken the short end of a beating because I couldn't make myself do lasting damage to someone even in anger.

So to answer you question "No I have been in those situations before and I "STILL" have not resorted to doing whatever it takes to win." The one time I hit someone in anger in 6th grade I still have guilt over. I was so much stronger than other kids at my age and that fear is still with me because a single punch gave him such a black eye that it was swollen closed with in the hour and that fight was right before school started and I had to look at his face during the day and on the way home. I'm 41 and I still feel guilty over that even now.

It's who I am. Period. I learned martial arts to learn to control the situation and "not" do lasting damage to anyone for any reason.

So I guess that is what I'm trying to tell you.

I studied for the same reason. However, in a case where the life of someone I love is in danger, that is a whole different scenario, and in a situation like that, I will do and use anything to “win”.

So yes there will never be "any" circumstances where I would feel I could do that. Just because you don't believe me again doesn't make it not so.

I didn’t say I didn’t believe you, I asked some questions that I thought might change your answer. You still haven’t really addressed them: Could you stab someone to save your child’s life?

PS: The way I feel right now I might find myself still debating the wisdom of stopping an attack on my WW if it was by some of the BW/BGF's.

I'm not saying that I wouldn't stop a lasting harmful attack, but there were times early one where the fantasy of some of the BW/BGF's getting their revenge on her happened and I just walk away and let them.

LOL! I know the feeling!

I don't believe I'll change any minds of folks determined everyone can/will cheat, but I just wanted to answer one last point.

Not in my case anyway. But it’s not personal. Please don’t take it that way.

[This message edited by ThatWasFun at 5:50 PM, September 22nd (Wednesday)]