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Just Found Out :
Moving forward

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bufffalo ( member #21854) posted at 9:01 PM on Sunday, March 27th, 2011

She originally wanted an open marriage and you weren't attractive to her at all. With some of your pressure, this was changed to a marriage of convenience, without the 'open' factor, but with no sexual interaction between you two.

I dunno....id say she's pretty close to that "open marriage" she was wanting back in October (if my memory is correct)....no? If not...please correct me.....if im wrong..sorry..im confused somewhat, OK?

Lets see....."IF" my FWW had 2 affairs that i knew of - in the span of a few months, wanted an "open" marriage, wanted elective cosmetic surgery, wanted me to keep kids for 10 days or any other time she went "ridin", of course the other BSs wernt to know...as i was to keep "the secret", wanted my full financial support, and......left on a nearly 2 week trip on motorcycles (yeah...im a biker redneck) to Sturges as the only woman with 3 of my biker friends...(see where im going with this, bro??)...my riding friends would think i was a "chump"...

I promise you that if left alone with my wife for that long...i wouldnt trust any of my friends - married or not - at all....and knowing that she screws around does not help your situation at all.....dude im sorry.

Do the wives of the 3 guys shes on that trip with know of her transgressions??? Do they even know that your wife is there???

I think that she's "humpin' your leg"..........

Feb.....im sorry, dude....but i gotta agree with squiffle and somewhat worried ....

Dude....i understand having a wife that cheats...it sucks. But to have it go on this long without consequences is a pattern...this i dont understand.

She is still disrespecting you and your marriage....you cannot control her actions - but you can control your reactions to her adverse behavior.

If you change nothing - nothing changes......

JMO...

Bufffalo

[This message edited by bufffalo at 4:27 PM, March 27th (Sunday)]

DDay 9/25/2008

BH-me

posts: 6172   ·   registered: Dec. 1st, 2008   ·   location: Texas
id 5151611
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 Feb 8, 2011 (original poster member #31137) posted at 10:38 PM on Sunday, March 27th, 2011

I'm not sure I want to fight for my marriage anymore.

I think I'm leaning towards fighting for custody.

That's why I "let her" go on the trip. I wanted her to leave me with all three kids for 10 days.

If she de-fogs and wants to R, the trip won't make any difference in the long run...if it turns out she really is as bad as some of you think and she tags one or more of them while "down there", then better it happen now than after 6 months of "R".

That said, bufffalo, thank you for the fencepost (felt bigger than a 2 x 4)...

I had so much resolve to blow things up right after she left, but my lawyer advised against it strongly, saying the timing would be seen as spiteful and be detrimental in separation/custody discussions.

D-Day see username
and maybe March 11, 11
ME: 45 yr old BH
Her: 40 yr old WW
3 kids
married 11 years
Who is this woman in my house?!

posts: 717   ·   registered: Feb. 9th, 2011   ·   location: canada
id 5151730
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bufffalo ( member #21854) posted at 12:45 AM on Monday, March 28th, 2011

I think I'm leaning towards fighting for custody.

Good for you, bro.....i did that once too....and got the kid, house, retirement, washer, dryer, etc.....and did it as quick as i could BEFORE the cheatin bitch "sobered up".....KWIM??? (happened some 20 years ago - and NOT the wife that got me to SI...its all in my profile)...

Sorry for the 2X4.....just hate see'n ya get jacked around....thats all......

Good luck in gettin' your kids...dont happen very often - but it can and does happen...

I had so much resolve to blow things up right after she left, but my lawyer advised against it strongly, saying the timing would be seen as spiteful and be detrimental in separation/custody discussions.

I hope for your sake he/shes a good attorney....me personally - i use a female, nine-headed bitch - all nine heads spinning - she is a snake - and fast!!

I'm not sure I want to fight for my marriage anymore.I think I'm leaning towards fighting for custody.

Sorry....i was thinking that you wanted the affiars to be over...and your wife back...

Good luck....

Bufffalo

DDay 9/25/2008

BH-me

posts: 6172   ·   registered: Dec. 1st, 2008   ·   location: Texas
id 5151913
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 Feb 8, 2011 (original poster member #31137) posted at 2:37 AM on Monday, March 28th, 2011

OK, in keeping with my overall cowardice, I just broke up with my wife by e-mail...

Just got the kids to sleep.

Sorry about the Skype. I had things on my mind, but couldn't say what I was thinking...

It's been a busy few days, but I have had a chance to think. There's been an ongoing battle about my future between my head and my heart for weeks now. Without you around, my head is winning. Without your random hugs and smiles to distract me, I am objectively seeing the cheating and lying (both before and after I found out) and lack of respect, but even worse hearing your words over and over justifying your affairs saying that you were never attracted to me, zero physical attraction, always felt like this, etc...and then you're constantly asking for "Open" or "best friends raising kids together" or "I'll do what you want, BUT understand that I still want to have sex with other men and I'll always be unhappy." These are all things you've said more than twice.

I still want nothing more than I want us to be a family again, but at some point I have to listen to what you're saying, respect it and process it. More than once I've thought that divorce is deep down what you want, but that you needed to push me into doing it.

I know that after I came back from the lawyer's with the letter of separation that you did tell me that you were wrong about the never, zero, always...but that just means I was lied to, either when you were justifying your affairs to me, the marriage counsellor, my S, and who knows else, or when I was talking about separating, and you wanted to avoid it.

This is the worst and hardest decision I've ever had to make in my entire life, but I brought the letter home, told you about it, and you've read it. I think that's legal. I will e-mail my lawyer and tell them to give you more time to respond because of your trip. I haven't decided whether to keep him or not. Perhaps we can work out our own arrangement. I started working on a couple of spreadsheets but didn't get very far.

March 23, 2012 is a long way away. I don't want a divorce. I really don't want to do to our three beautiful kids what your parents did to you, but by the time that date gets here, we'll know, one way or the other, and we'll be able to move on.

I know that e-mail is a terrible way to communicate this, and that you're 1500km away, but I tried to do it in person the day I got back from the lawyer's and you wouldn't let me.

I am not giving up, but the way we are now isn't working.

Strange as it may seem to sign off like this...Love,

BH

D-Day see username
and maybe March 11, 11
ME: 45 yr old BH
Her: 40 yr old WW
3 kids
married 11 years
Who is this woman in my house?!

posts: 717   ·   registered: Feb. 9th, 2011   ·   location: canada
id 5152059
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Tahiti ( member #11551) posted at 2:59 AM on Monday, March 28th, 2011

Feb,

Good for you. I don't thing you were cowardly.

You said what had to be said.

Sometimes it is better not to do things face to face.

How she reacts to this will be pretty telling.

Stay strong and stay true to you and your kids.

Tahiti

posts: 539   ·   registered: Aug. 3rd, 2006   ·   location: Long Island, New York
id 5152092
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hitbyatruck ( member #23769) posted at 3:48 AM on Monday, March 28th, 2011

That is not being a coward at all. You got all your feelings out without her being able to interupt.

This way she can read it over and over, it might make sense to her. You weren't angry in the letter, you are reacting to all she has done.

Hang in there. You never know what is going to happen next.

Married 1998. 2 kids. First discovery 3/2009. Multiple affairs, porn addiction. one failed attempt at R. Nested for over a year. Divorce final 8/2015. XH is now married. I am engaged!

posts: 3329   ·   registered: Apr. 27th, 2009
id 5152155
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maria_2011 ( member #31506) posted at 3:49 AM on Monday, March 28th, 2011

It does not read like a break-up letter to me. It looks like a clear statement of your pain, what she has done to cause it, and the steps your going to take for you and your kids - stating further that this is not your desire.

This is you taking control, and putting the ball in your wife's court. So far you have been reacting to her manipulations.

You have taken control, GOOD FOR YOU!

As a women I hope she really reads the letter, to read the pain, love, and hope behind your decsion.

I STRONGLY suggest that you anticpate several responses from your wife - come up with all the posible scenarios and come up with your response for each one.

Don't get caught unprepared for your first contact with her.

posts: 91   ·   registered: Mar. 14th, 2011   ·   location: California
id 5152157
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bufffalo ( member #21854) posted at 5:01 AM on Monday, March 28th, 2011

OK, in keeping with my overall cowardice,

Bro....you are not a coward. This is NOT your fault.....you have zero blame in your wifes decision to cheat.

you did NOT cause it, you canNOT control it...and you damn sure cant fix it...you can however control your reactions to her adverse behavior....living with a wife that is openly dating others is a dealbreaker for most of us - sooner or later....

Nice letter, bro...(as sad as it is) i know its hard....but again - not your fault.

You have drawn a line in the dirt - like Travis at the Alamo....you set your limitations and conveyed them to her....I totaly understand - its a bitch, it sucks - but sometimes you gotta do shit like this....because the alternative is worse - as you well know....

You hung in there alot longer that most - me included......No, i didnt want a divorce - but wanted to share a foggy, cheatin' wife even less....a mans' gotta know his limitations...

Be firm....dont waver....look out for you and your kids....you're a good guy, bro - and you dont deserve her bullshit...

My FWW on DDay said..."ILYBINILWY"...she wanted to "seperate, but not divorce"...she wanted me to "move out - but wanted me to move into the guest house" (we have a ranch with 2 houses on it)....she even offered to pay me to look after her portion of our assets - horses, cattle, rent property, etc....(It took lookin' at divorce papers - literaly - to get her outta the fog)...bro some cheaters get outta the fog - some dont. Expect rain, but pray for sunshine....again sometimes this shit aint your fault...and this is NOT your fault.

Bro...hold your head up - YOU WILL SURVIVE!!!! If divorce is in your future - know that you went beyond a normal effort to save your marriage.... shit happens that is not in your control...it just does.

She may eventually get out of her fog, and want to be your wife again - you have no control over that. Until she does...180....take care of you and your kids...work with your lawyer....

Keep us posted,

Bufffalo

[This message edited by bufffalo at 7:35 AM, March 28th (Monday)]

DDay 9/25/2008

BH-me

posts: 6172   ·   registered: Dec. 1st, 2008   ·   location: Texas
id 5152220
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 Feb 8, 2011 (original poster member #31137) posted at 10:06 AM on Monday, March 28th, 2011

WW

I am lonely.

I don't remember ever sayign zero physical attraction. That simply can'tbe. The physical attraction is not what it should be and goes back to the beginning which is what I meant by never been there but I never said the word zero. Someone might have put that word inmy mouth but sayhing the words "zero physical attraction" is not my words. I never uttered those words. The issue has always been there but Iwoul d not say zero.

I wish you were still there. I miss you...talking to me, enjoying the kids....

I replied...

I am lonely too.

Did I put a word in your mouth? Maybe you said "never been any", I don't remember... I do remember how it felt, ....

You practically begged me to stop living in denial and "understand" you. I have done as you have asked, and this is where it has led us.

You wish I was still here? I am still here, with all three kids. I haven't left. We need to talk about that when you get back.

Believe me, I am completely heartbroken over this. I thought we would last forever, and you know I would have done anything for the person I thought you were and the relationship I thought we had.

[This message edited by Feb 8, 2011 at 4:23 AM, March 28th (Monday)]

D-Day see username
and maybe March 11, 11
ME: 45 yr old BH
Her: 40 yr old WW
3 kids
married 11 years
Who is this woman in my house?!

posts: 717   ·   registered: Feb. 9th, 2011   ·   location: canada
id 5152356
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Cabrona ( member #9596) posted at 11:30 AM on Monday, March 28th, 2011

Why are you letting her quibble over words? Zero attraction or not enough attraction to keep her from screwing around and justifying it? What the hell difference does it really make?

Personally, I think her "lack of attraction" is just a LAME excuse for being a selfish bitch who wants to have her cake and eat it too. She is emotionally immature, and treating you like an old toy.

Do not back down from not accepting her bullshit.

"The truth is, everybody is going to hurt you... you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." —Bob Marley

posts: 626   ·   registered: Jan. 30th, 2006   ·   location: Caribbean
id 5152395
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Jiltedwife777 ( member #31221) posted at 11:31 AM on Monday, March 28th, 2011

Believe me, I am completely heartbroken over this. I thought we would last forever, and you know I would have done anything for the person I thought you were and the relationship I thought we had.

Good one! You let her know that she is NOT the same person, and this person who she has become is not acceptable.

Me - 36, WH - 40
Married 14 years
Kids - 9 yr old b/g twins (son is special needs)
Dday1 - 2/14/2011, Dday2 - 3/23/2011
Trying to R, but struggling with communication

posts: 496   ·   registered: Feb. 17th, 2011   ·   location: New England
id 5152396
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reallyscrewedup7 ( member #30825) posted at 11:57 AM on Monday, March 28th, 2011

Oh Feb, I feel so sorry for you. Believe me, I know the pain.

But I have to tell you that you need to get busy fighting and get out of this self-destructive mode you are in. Yes. Self-destructive. You are killing yourself right before our eyes.

Did you re-read her responses to you? She doesn’t have one bit of remorse. She is lonely. She didn’t say that. She she she she she she she she. I am glad your intellect has finally comprehended what kind of person she is. But it is clear your heart has not and that is killing you.

You ARE taking positive steps, but every one of them has been hedged. You are more worried about her than yourself. Or more correctly, you are worried that the next step you take will irreparably damage any chance of her running back to your arms. Feb, I say this with all due respect, but she is probably in the arms of another man right now (well, it is morning, so she is on her bike, but…) YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THIS - she is not going to come back to you through acts of kindness or civility on your part.

Look, I know you know everything I am writing here. Buffalo has spelled it out in spades for you. But I have to say it again, because I do not want you keep suffering needlessly. Specifically:

Your lawyer’s advice about outing the affair was specious at best and possibly misinterpreted by you because that is what you wanted to hear. Yes, publishing her affair in the Toronto Star would be considered cruel by a judge. Telling the betrayed spouses that your wife has had multiple affairs with men and could be an STD risk is simply covering your ass. Face it, you have known about the affairs and they are probably continuing. The first spouse that gets infected and finds out you knew but did not disclose could come after you. (Not that such a civil suit would win, but do you really want to face that??)

I know you do not want to out the affairs. You are afraid on many levels. I get that. BUT YOU HAVE TO. You do not need to be cruel, but simply factual. If you are wondering how to do it, here is a script

“Mrs. Betrayed Wife,

It has come to my attention that my wife, Mrs. Feb, has had more than one sexual extra-marital affair. I have several electronic communications from your husband indicating that he was one of her affair partners. I am sorry to inform you of this, but you have a right to know. If you need copies of these communications, I will be reluctantly willing to share them with you, but no one else. Further, I highly recommend you see your doctor to discuss STD screening, because she has had more than one affair.”

Second, what has changed for her? As Buffalo said, NOTHING. She WANTS an in-house separation from you where you do the child care, earn the money, tend to things around the house, but one that LETS HER FUCK OTHER MEN. She has won. I bet you a year’s pay that is exactly what she is thinking. She probably has plans A-E for manipulating you into giving her what she wants through the separation process.

Meanwhile, you are heartbroken. She knows it. You are suffering. She knows it and it does not bother her. She thinks she has all the cards and intends to use them to cause you further pain for her own gain.

So where do you go from here? Are you going to continue to hope that she will recover her senses, rush back to your arms and forsake the other men? Or are you going to put yourself and your children first and move on with your life? You know the right answer. Make those calls…

Still sending you strength to realize what you have to do.

Infidelity sucks shit

posts: 1145   ·   registered: Jan. 14th, 2011   ·   location: Finding my way
id 5152417
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squiffle ( member #13015) posted at 12:00 PM on Monday, March 28th, 2011

Let me get this straight. You write her a very heartfelt and IMO kind letter -- firm that you'll proceed with divorce even though your heart isn't in it -- and you express your pain and your fears for your children.

SHE writes back

Someone might have put that word inmy mouth but sayhing the words "zero physical attraction" is not my words. I never uttered those words. The issue has always been there but Iwoul d not say zero.

She wants to discuss the semantics of her blameshifting.

That's it.

She's not sorry for what she did. She's not afraid of the effects of D on three children. She's not hurting for hurting you.

No. It's poor her. She was misunderstood. Someone put words in her mouth. Poor her. She "misses" you. Oh and hey, not in an intimate way, but in a there to chat with and take care of the kids way.

You, of course, on starvation rations, are free to interpret "miss you" for what you WANT that to mean -- you matter. But she's pretty clear -- she misses the you that pays attention to her and interacts with the kids. And she's holding firm to her I'm not so attracted to you but it's not zero, did I say zero? thing.

Can we have a collective vomit?

Do NOT mediate this. You retain a kickass lawyer, as Buffalo advises. One with 10 heads. (His only had 9.) You fight HARD.

Do not let her play you.

Moved on. Moved away. Happily married to a good man. Life gets better after this shit.

posts: 4529   ·   registered: Dec. 21st, 2006   ·   location: west
id 5152419
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 Feb 8, 2011 (original poster member #31137) posted at 12:46 PM on Monday, March 28th, 2011

You ARE taking positive steps, but every one of them has been hedged. You are more worried about her than yourself. Or more correctly, you are worried that the next step you take will irreparably damage any chance of her running back to your arms.

You are right, but that is how I feel comfortable proceeding. I want to leave that hope for all of us...it's up to her what she does about it.

I am resolved to reject false R, and to set and adhere to clear boundaries (NC, IC, etc.) if she asks to come back.

I appreciate the reality check though, I know I need it.

D-Day see username
and maybe March 11, 11
ME: 45 yr old BH
Her: 40 yr old WW
3 kids
married 11 years
Who is this woman in my house?!

posts: 717   ·   registered: Feb. 9th, 2011   ·   location: canada
id 5152476
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 Feb 8, 2011 (original poster member #31137) posted at 12:50 PM on Monday, March 28th, 2011

She wants to discuss the semantics of her blameshifting.

That's it.

She's not sorry for what she did. She's not afraid of the effects of D on three children. She's not hurting for hurting you.

No. It's poor her. She was misunderstood. Someone put words in her mouth. Poor her. She "misses" you. Oh and hey, not in an intimate way, but in a there to chat with and take care of the kids way.

You, of course, on starvation rations, are free to interpret "miss you" for what you WANT that to mean -- you matter. But she's pretty clear -- she misses the you that pays attention to her and interacts with the kids. And she's holding firm to her I'm not so attracted to you but it's not zero, did I say zero? thing.

Yeah, sometimes it seems pretty hopeless, but at least I've recognized it and taken a stand.

Now it's about custody of the kids....

I will proceed in the direction of drafting a separation agreement and eventual divorce.

I will be wary of her knocking me off this course without significant changes in her attitude, words and actions. Although I want us to be a fmaily, I will not be part of a FAKE one anymore.

D-Day see username
and maybe March 11, 11
ME: 45 yr old BH
Her: 40 yr old WW
3 kids
married 11 years
Who is this woman in my house?!

posts: 717   ·   registered: Feb. 9th, 2011   ·   location: canada
id 5152480
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stretch13 ( member #26894) posted at 1:00 PM on Monday, March 28th, 2011

wow, her response was incredible. demeaning if you ask me. she throws you one bone out of all those heartfelt words. she throws you one bone to dispute your account of things, one more time. she throws you a bone to say she doesn't find you 100% unattractive? and that's it? that and the fact that she really misses cake-eating with you?

you stay strong for you...stay here posting...hold out for what you deserve in this life, not just what you think you can get from her.

(((((feb)))))

http://www.facebook.com/hardheadpress
http://www.amazon.com/Eli-Ely-Ezekiel-Tyrus/dp/0986042900/

http://hardheadpress.com/

life must be rich and full of loving--it's no good otherwise, no good at all, for anyone - j. kerouac

posts: 3929   ·   registered: Dec. 22nd, 2009   ·   location: east coast
id 5152494
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 Feb 8, 2011 (original poster member #31137) posted at 1:08 PM on Monday, March 28th, 2011

She wants to discuss the semantics of her blameshifting.

That's it.

She's not sorry for what she did. She's not afraid of the effects of D on three children. She's not hurting for hurting you.

No. It's poor her. She was misunderstood. Someone put words in her mouth. Poor her. She "misses" you. Oh and hey, not in an intimate way, but in a there to chat with and take care of the kids way.

You, of course, on starvation rations, are free to interpret "miss you" for what you WANT that to mean -- you matter. But she's pretty clear -- she misses the you that pays attention to her and interacts with the kids. And she's holding firm to her I'm not so attracted to you but it's not zero, did I say zero? thing.

Believe me, the things she has said about attraction hurt me deeply, but not as much anymore...they're part of her "fog" and she's clinging fiercely to them to rationalize and justify her behaviour. She's has always been a good person, and the fact that she did what she did is killing her...I have started to get other indications of just how uncomfortable she is with her actions and how she is now being perceived...her stubborn insistence to believe this to prtect her own self-image may mean the end of our family. Pretty stupid really.

[This message edited by Feb 8, 2011 at 7:09 AM, March 28th (Monday)]

D-Day see username
and maybe March 11, 11
ME: 45 yr old BH
Her: 40 yr old WW
3 kids
married 11 years
Who is this woman in my house?!

posts: 717   ·   registered: Feb. 9th, 2011   ·   location: canada
id 5152507
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lordmayhem ( member #30526) posted at 1:49 PM on Monday, March 28th, 2011

No more 2X4s from me feb. I can't add anything more to the excellent advice that you've been given by all of the members above. It's clear that you know that you won't be conned into False R.

Instead, I'm sending you strength. You know what you should do already. Stay strong!

BH-me, 45
fWW-her, 50
Married 21 yrs
2 kids (21, 12)
D-Day: 06/11/10

In R at this time

posts: 532   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2010   ·   location: USA
id 5152577
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PlainJane ( member #30637) posted at 1:53 PM on Monday, March 28th, 2011

(((Feb)))

Sorry I don't have any advice to add as you're already getting great input from the other members. My heart breaks for your pain and just wanted to send you a hug.

Me: BS 43
Him: WH 43
Married: 18 yrs (2 kids)
D-Day: 12/28/2010
Working on R

I know my heart will never be the same; But I'm telling myself I'll be ok
Even on my weakest days; I get a little bit stronger
-- Sara Evans

posts: 88   ·   registered: Jan. 5th, 2011
id 5152584
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bufffalo ( member #21854) posted at 2:10 PM on Monday, March 28th, 2011

I still want nothing more than I want us to be a family again,

Its still possible.....BUT she has got to get off that fence about wanting to "date other men".....till that happens - YOU HAVE GOT TO ASSUME YOURE GETTING A DIVORCE!!! Reread the posts about the 180 - then do it. Dont get into a pissing match with her, you know "i said / she said" kinda shit - One of my undergraduate degrees is in political science - officially we dont negociate with terrorists....and you dont need to either.....KWIM?

Dont get into a text message battle with her - hell, ignore them for a while....you gotta give her time to think about the bullshit shes pulling - AND THE CONSEQUENCES of her behavior....

While my FWW was in her fog - i KNEW i was headed for the "single life again".....UGH!!!! Move forward with the divorce UNTIL she pulls that fence post outta her ass.....

Me?....again, bro - i didnt believe anything my FWW said while she was in that fog - its all bullshit....they will rewrite the maritial history to justify their actions in screwing around - of course she "isnt attracted" to you....other wise shes a slut! (see what i mean - its all lies and bullshit) Your wife is trying to internally justify her actions to herself...dont buy into the hyperbole (college word that means literally "bullshit")....

Until i got a "snotting, blubbering, crying, im so sorry i hurt you, mascara dripping off of her chin apology"...i DID NOT believe anything my cheatin wife said - nothing, its was all hyperbole up to that point......and it took about 2 months of a "full court press 180" (and divorce papers to show her i was SERIOUS)....i KNEW it was divorce time, bro...it threw me off my horse when she got the "fence post" outta her ass - was NOT expecting it!!!

When her actions are acceptable to YOU to remain married (some do - some dont..so dont hold your breath) then and ONLY then is R possible....this may take a while, the fog lifts slowly -- sometimes it doesnt.

Reread the threads about the 180...the 180 is NOT a secret plan to "win her back"...the 180 is about you - it gives you strength to appear NOT clingly, you appear to be moving on...in a non-codependance manner....

they're part of her "fog" and she's clinging fiercely to them to rationalize and justify her behaviour.

Yep....Feb, you are correct.....

Your wife is a cake eater.....time to take away her fork and turn off that oven.....

Bufffalo

[This message edited by bufffalo at 8:24 AM, March 28th (Monday)]

DDay 9/25/2008

BH-me

posts: 6172   ·   registered: Dec. 1st, 2008   ·   location: Texas
id 5152617
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