SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi Feb. I just spent an hour reading your entire 7 pages of thread. WOW. I am so sorry.

I haven't been on the forums much lately, as my Dday was a year ago (June 3). I found out about texts/phone calls in March. I am beginning to trigger and facing the ANTI versary is hard, which is why I am back. R for me is going well, but didn't at first.

I want to share a little about what worked for me and what didn't. Everyone's WS is different. BUT, as much as it seems backward in your head, the WS is not going to come out of the fog with niceness and YOUR hard work on the marriage. It just doesn't work that way. I wish to hell I had found this site during the 3 months of hell I lived through. From March-June, I was the ultimate wife. I would have won awards for being the best wife of the year if there were such a thing. I read every book I could on being a better wife, giving my husband what he needs, understanding him, etc...

Let me just tell you it doesn't work. Yes, he admits now to a little guilt, but my FWH will be honest and tell you that when you are in the middle of the crap, nothing penetrates through. IT is NOT FOG, it is more like Peanut Butter. It is so thick that nothing gets through. THey are INCAPABLE of rational thought. It is an addiction. For normal WS's it is an addiction when they are in the middle of an A. For your wife, it is much more serious. I think she really honestly does have SA and it goes back to her FOO issues. My mother did, too. My mother had affairs all through my parents marriage until they divorced after I was married. She will continue to look for love she didn't feel as a child until she gets help. IC. There is no other answer. I am sorry for that.

My husband continued to lie to me, even though I had proof in my hand. THen he TT. It was horrible. I finally kicked him out, told him if he was not to set foot back in the house without my permission and I only gave it to him when he swore he would tell me the truth. He came, I didn't allow him in the house. We sat out back and talked and he admitted everything I knew and answered my questions. I THEN agreed to try to R, but also told him, very plainly, that if he was lying and I found out from someone else, or I found out about any further contact, I would divorce him and not reconsider. I was done with the lying.

We started MC in Sept. when I thought we were ready to face it. Honestly, I wasn't ready to face it and deal with it early on. I also knew he wasn't. He has slowly told me more and more and more and more has he looked at himself and examined what his issues were and why he did what he did.

My point is, that nothing you do can wake her up. By forcing her to move out until the end of the divorce, you give her the OPPORTUNITY to wake up. It may work. Chances are, it won't. By telling the OBS's, it gives it a CHANCE, that the OM's will drop contact. It may or may NOT. But you give the OBS's dignity and respect that they deserve to make their own decisions.

I had suspicions. I found out later, that the OBS had his suspicions, too. We never said anything, b/c neither of us had proof. He finally got proof (emails) and called me. I knew immediately, but met him at a friends to get proof and spoke to him for a few minutes. I knew in my head and my heart, but could never get proof, or correlation to KNOW. He gave that to me. As awful and horrible and sickening as it was, he gave me KNOWLEDGE I needed to be able to do something about it.

Whether it saves your marriage and your family (which is what you are truly concerned about) or it helps you to move on and salvage your family (your kids), either way, hon, it is time to take a stand, and move forward. For your kids, but most importantly for yourself.

I know it sucks and is scary. But you owe yourself the dignity and respect.

Do this for me: Think about what kind of man you are and want to be. Write it down. I would think the words HONOR< RESPECT, HONEST, COMPASSIONATE, HAPPY, GOOD FATHER, DIGNITY

Give yourself these. Stop accepting her pitiful excuses and blameshifting. It is honestly disgraceful.

IT is time to stand up, be the DIGNIFIED MAN that you ARE, and accept no more. IF she wants to whore around for 10 days and neglect you and the kids, fine, I would have bags packed, a few nice photos of you and the kids, papers she may need sitting by the door and kick her ass out. She can go live with dad or mom or in her car. Make her SEE THE REALITY of the life she is choosing. She will HAVE to get a job. She will HAVE to cut back on biking, on whoring. The good life is gone. Reality. Wake up and smell the roses.

Please tell the OBS's. they have a right to the dignity and repsect and to make choices for themselves for their own lives and marriages. Think about their children.

So many lives. The collateral damage of stupid choices.

Good Luck

She's has always been a good person, and the fact that she did what she did is killing her.

Really? Because I don't see this as killing her. I see it killing you. But her? Not so much.

I see her booking herself a 10 day vacation with 3 men who aren't her husband, in spite of two DDays.

I don't see consequences. I don't see sorry. How exactly is this killing her?

Agree with Buffalo. Take this time she's away to do some serious NC.

NC: Make. Her. Miss. You.

Unfortunately, as we have seen a lot here in this forum, you need unconditional surrender to be able to move forward.

OK. Some of the folks are being a little rough on you. I see you as reeling right now.

Brother, any woman who has 9 months off and still has you doing her laundry, who is so careless about her A's that you find out easily, who takes off for 10 days immediately after being outed and given a notice of S so she can be with her friends and have fun, who has a secret bank account full of money for cosmetic surgery, who has said the horrible things she has to you and now only wants to argue semantics, has left the M a long time ago. I am sorry to say that whoever told you she is secretly wanting you to D her is right.

So, I for one think that you are doing pretty well all things considered. You get no 2x4s from me.

The only thing I can offer up is that in your various spread sheets the only option that is off the table is an in house separation. Because everyone who has been telling you that she wins with that arrangement is dead on. She will view it as written permission to continue fucking guys right under your nose, and will get pissy if you object.

I read your post with sadness because it is clear you are trying to be reasonable. Her response was just what I expected. Not even an I love you. That had to sting.

Thanks everyone.

Yes I am reeling, but she is too far away to know.

I know in-house separation is bad, but how do I get her to leave? Rmemeber her mom lives with us, owns a third of the house.

One thing about any separation is that she will have to go back to work.

So put the house on the market and break the chains you have to her and MIL. If she has an ounce of sense, she will see that living with you is not the way to go. If you have to get an apartment, do it. You are not losing your kids. They could realistically spend as much or more time with you no matter where you are. Do not use the kids as an obstacle to breaking away from this vampire. The kids will be better off with you sane. God knows she isn't right now.

By the way I read her post back to you again. Gotta love the "there must have been something a bit more than zero somewhere" like that's supposed to make you feel better.

If she isn't on a plane right now to drop in front of you on her knees, you know all there is to know. We all know she isn't don't we.

longsadstory - It's not just MIL...our kids are going to be devestated when they find out the separation...if they have to move as well, it will be that much worse.

There's no financial reason to sell. Our two-third share of the house gives us a very nice 4 bedroom house with little storage. MIL's one-third share gives her the equivalent of a very nice apartment. We don't have that much equity (WW and me), so selling would not give either of us enough money to find something suitable for the kids.

I want to stay there with the kids, despite my MIL being there.

I finally kicked him out, told him if he was not to set foot back in the house without my permission

I keep hearing this, but how can I "kick her out?" It's her house too.

I do plan to insist she starts working again.

gardenmom and nuance...

I hear you. 180. NC. Stay strong. This was just the first step. She will make the R/D decision anyway...I just have to make sure I recognize it when I see it.

gardenmom - you're right, it's peanut butter.

feb...(gently) i understand you are blown away right now. you are getting a lot of good advice and strong perspectives here.

i hear what you are saying about your home, but may i offer that i think you aren't quite facing what all of this means just yet? i know you don't want your life disrupted to this degree and you don't want your children's life disrupted...but they are. i know selling doesn't make sense, but what does? your wife's A's? having her close by, still foggy and dangerous, able to play with your mind and heart right there in front of your kids at your most vulnerable?

you WW disrupted all of these things, not you. trying to minimize the impact by hanging onto what "normal" things you think you can...for the kids, for you, for whomever is natural, but not necessarily realistic.

the truth is, everything is already different. it will take a while to realize how much really has changed or will in the coming months and years. try, as best you can, to start accepting that the life you thought knew and planned for is over.

i'm not saying anything about R or D, here. i'm talking about things that already are, regardless of what comes next. life as you knew it is upside down and you are left to piece together a brand new one, with or without WW.

your kids can be ok...and you didn't do this to them. from your perspective, as a parent, this is happening to them and it's up to you to help manage and guide their path through it. watching you and your WW's dysfunctional in-house S is probably NOT the least disturbing choice for them...but i can't say, i'm not you.

you know we are rooting for you and your healing. stay strong and stand up for yourself. i believe she must be a good manipulator if she's convinced you of the things she has and has you expecting/accepting so little. be careful with your heart, please.

[This message edited by stretch13 at 10:57 AM, March 28th (Monday)]

Keep focus on whats best for you kids in the long run.

Either as an intact family with your wife in a healthy and positive relationship.

Or, in a suportive enviornment were dad is in a loving, positive, and healthy relationship (step-mom) that will be long term and have a positive impact on their lives - no mater any negative and harmfull choices their mother makes.

Question: Has she indicated that she is leaving her trip early or does she intendt to finish the bike ride under the present circumstances?

At least for the short term, any chance that, for the greatest posiblity of reconciliation, that your MIL would support forcing your wife to live someplace else.

Also - EXPOSE THIS THING!

[This message edited by maria_2011 at 11:01 AM, March 28th (Monday)]

I kicked WH out the night I found out. While I have waivered some on that decision, I think ultimately it was to my advantage. He knew I was ANGRY, and he knew that if he pushed the issue that night, it would have escalated.

Talk to your atty about exclusive use of the marital home. My atty said that it is fairly easy paperwork.

I know in-house separation is bad, but how do I get her to leave?

If you are trying to save your M then she has to change, and boy does she have a LOT to change!

The trauma of dday is enough to jolt some WS's back into reality immediately or shortly after dday. It takes the reality of a near miss of being hit by a car to wake them up. Your WW isn't in this category of WS's. Unfortunately for you and the children, your WW is the type who needs to be hit by a bus before she learns.

Since dday wasn't enough for your WW to jolt her into reality, an in-house separation certainly won't. Your WW needs to be hit by a bus and if she's not hit by a bus then your M will end.

More importantly than your marriage ending, imo, is that your children will be stuck post-A with the same pre-A irresponsible, broken woman for a mother whose self-centeredness is far greater than her maternal instinct.

An in-house will simply prolong the inevitable but not change anything or anyone's quality of life. Not yours and not the children's.

Your wife didn't care about her children's emotional wellbeing. She didn't consider what her mother who owns a piece of the home, would do or where she'd live. She's a conflict avoider because it makes her uncomfortable which is why she didn't have the balls to tell the kids of her trip in advance. This woman needs to be hit by a bus.

Tell your WW that there will be no in-house separation. Give her the choice to pack a bag and move out because if she won't there will be a for sale sign on the front lawn tomorrow.

Force her to see the reality of her irresponsible behavior. Let her see the reality of her mother. Let her see the reality of what a for sale sign does to her children. For the sake of your children and giving your M a chance, hit her with the bus.

what rise and shine said

((feb))

so selling would not give either of us enough money to find something suitable for the kids.

Good! Let that also be your WW's reality to see.

After separation comes divorce and the unless you have enough savings to buy her and /or your MIL out, the house is going to be sold anyway.

Tell your WW that there will be no in-house separation. Give her the choice to pack a bag and move out because if she won't there will be a for sale sign on the front lawn tomorrow.

Okay, I'm thinking about this suggestion, but what if two of the three owners don't want to sell?

At least for the short term, any chance that, for the greatest posiblity of reconciliation, that your MIL would support forcing your wife to live someplace else.

Perhaps if I put it like that....good idea.

Hey Feb:

You're doing very well considering. Don't feel bad about moving more slowly than others think or expect. Some of us give advice in terms of what we wish we'd done. We forget how we too compromised and tried not to burn the bridge in case there was hope of R. Not that I disagree with many of their 2x4s, but I think you're doing great.

The only advice I have to offer is, you need to start thinking about and treating this more like a business transaction. Try to remove the emotion from it (I know, easier said than done).

Regardless of what she is doing to you emotionally, there are consequences to her actions and she's going to have to live with them.

I agree with the others that she has shown no real remorse, she's still focusing on herself and there is some manipulation attempted. Your best response is measured, calm (not cruel) facts.

I do plan to insist she starts working again.

Your comment above still sounds like a husband reasoning with his wife. If this was a business transaction, you'd just lay out the facts and she'd likely come to that conclusion on her own or suffer the consequences.

If your business partner left you high and dry for 10 days, I assume you'd handle it a little differently.

Yes, I am talking about the 180 - focusing on your kids and the business at hand. But I thought giving you another perspective on it might be helpful.

She has now become your non-emotional partner (she's actually said as much). She needs to be treated that way. After all ...

You practically begged me to stop living in denial and "understand" you.

If she complains about your lack of emotion, I would just let her know that you now "understand her." It's now time she understood exactly what that entails.

what if two of the three owners don't want to sell?

tell them they can buy you out.

Okay, I'm thinking about this suggestion, but what if two of the three owners don't want to sell?

This would also be a good question to ask your attorney.

Regardless, I'm fairly certain that you are entitled to a share and if you proceed with D and the other two can't pay you for your share, the home will probably have to be sold and the proceeds will be split according to what you're entitled.

Talk to your lawyer about the house and proceed AS IF you are headed to D. If WS comes around, then you can possibly re-evaluate. If she doesn't, then you are on the path you would need to be on anyway.

what if two of the three owners don't want to sell?

If two or one of the three owners don't want to sell then they are forced to buy out the share of the party that does want to sell.

I've stayed off of this thread until now but I've read it from top to bottom.

I'm going to be blunt with you. The relationship that your wife has with you, whether you've been aware of it or not, is that of a parent/child. Your wife is the child and she sees you as her parent. Shame on her but it's why she isn't interested in you sexually.

She's very immature wich is why she's a conflict avoider. She doesn't like feeling uncomfortable. She doesn't handle discomfort in an age-appropriate way that adults do.

You keep her world comfortable like a parent does for a child and that's why she wants to live together as bestfriends and raise the kids. She sees you as her parent, NOT as a man.

She expects you to consider the children's emotional wellbeing so she doesn't have to.

As long as you assume the role of her parent, she will not want to be physically intimate with you.

Force her to grow up and deal with her reality.

I'm saying this from a VERY pro-marriage point of view. Do not let her continue to be a child...if you want to save your M and turn it into a M between a man and woman...or M or not, at least if you want to help her become the kind of mother your children deserve.