SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I ak this because it may give some insight into the type of person you are: Generally speaking, do you find you lack empathy? The ability to devalue and show no concern for the man's BS over an extended period of time is very disturbing.It seems expecially strange in light of the fact that you, yourself felt the effects of this type of betrayal.

Also, do you find that you are less resourceful than others? It is ,realtively, easy to divorce if one is seekig a differnet lifestyle. What prevented you from taking this, relatively simple route?

I read your profile and was taken aback by your characterizing the OM as so devoted to his family. That may indicate a problem in your abilty to look at reality.

I do think divorce is the answer for you and all would be best served. Some folks are not cut out for marriage.

From reading here, I realize that I devalued him in my mind. I married a strong and smart man. As life and kids and illnesses and financial troubles hit, I lost all respect for him.

I have a post about how affairs can influence this in JFO, and how long it can take to undo the damage. http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=400807

It may or may not apply in your case, and I am not trying to beat you up here. The safe thing for you to do is give it some time and effort to see if you can save your marriage. If you still feel the same, you can always D later, but if you don't try, you may come to regret it later on for a very long time.

Off and on for many years allows a lot of time for rationalizing behaviour you know was wrong, and whatever you decide, I only wish for it to be based on truth.

ETA: Over the years *cringe* that I have been here, I have seen many members on wayward post with similar feelings about their marriage that you express. Some of them divorced, and some of them are still here and strike me as the most well adjusted happily married people I know (based on their posts). Others just seem to disappear without seeming to make any progress, and I worry about them.

Just tried reading your other posts for more background, and a slight t/j here: You are allowed to post in general despite what you may have thought. It is only JFO that is off limits.

[This message edited by aesir at 2:47 PM, March 31st (Thursday)]

Reggie....

We expect you to post respectfully in this forum.

Telling members that they are not in reality is not going to fly around here.

@Reggie - I think you've got me all wrong, but I respect your opinion. Trying to keep a fledgling M alive for 17 years, and making the effort to back to square one for an accurate assesment does not spell lack of empathy or being unresourceful to me. But I hear you as it must not appear that way.

@Aesir - that is why I am here, to hear about other experiences, to share my own, and to make the right decisions for me and my family. It is so very comforting to know that others have been where I am and have found their way out. My devalue of my H happened long before the A. It contributed to my cake eating, but the A definitely didn't help to repair those horrible and unfair thoughts. I will check out the thread on JFO.

edited for spelling and clarity

[This message edited by wwnomore at 9:27 AM, April 1st (Friday)]

wwnomore, I want to tell you that I respect your lack of defensiveness and willingness to hear all perspectives. It's really important to listen to everything openly, consider, and then keep what works for you and let go of what doesn't, and you seem to be very comfortable with doing that. It will help you on this journey.

I also wanted to ask you about the full history of infidelity in your marriage. Stressing that this *in no way* excuses or explains your own affair, I wonder what if any healing you and your husband did after his affair? From your initial posts it sounds like life intervened and you both more or less swept it under the rug to deal with other crises (deaths in the family, ill health, etc.) Have you examined what it is in you that accepted that incomplete, disconnected, wounded version of marriage for so long? This may provide clues as to why you chose to have your own affair (which I'm unable to see as anything other than self-medication, as As so often are).

@Inchoate - Thanks for the kind words

You are right on all counts. I am trying to examine those things.

His affair did get swept under the rug. No real healing or improvements were made. I just kept plugging away, and then another crisis would hit, and I would put it off for another day. I felt like I was in one of those dreams where I was screaming but no one could hear me. H certainly wasn't hearing me. Was I screaming loud enough? I thought I was. How could I live like that? I don't know. I can't keep doing it now.

I did self-medicate with my A. It was a whole lot of twisted thinking that maybe it was the only way to keep my M alive - that I could stay in it if I got my emotional needs met somewhere else. That's a sick thought I know, but I am trying to be honest and get to the bottom of it.

H and I never ever discussed what we wanted our marriage to be like or what we needed from each other. I want to do that now and see if there is common ground to be had. Somehow, I was able to negotiate that with AP, so why not H? Stunning revelation for me.

I hope no one thinks I am trying to make excuses or justify anything. I am exploring and thinking and figuring things out, thanks to everyone here.

((SI))

[This message edited by wwnomore at 11:53 AM, April 1st (Friday)]

It was a whole lot of twisted thinking that maybe it was the only way to keep my M alive - that I could stay in it if I got my emotional needs met somewhere else.

I resemble that remark--I had the same distorted Brilliant Plan. It took me some time to become fully cognizant of how very much my choices were fueled by rage.

Somehow, I was able to negotiate that with AP, so why not H? Stunning revelation for me.

Yeah, me too. Derp.

You're doing great. Keep swimming.

that I could stay in it if I got my emotional needs met somewhere else. That's a sick thought I know, but I am trying to be honest and get to the bottom of it.

Raising hand. Yep. Like all the pieces will somehow create a whole. A way to make an intolerable situation tolerable.

God, how THAT doesn't work. Now, as I'm gathering the shattered pieces of my integrity and piecing it back together best as I can I'm reminded with every missing sliver what a toxic self destructive choice I made.

You're examining things under that stark black light of reality. And you're doing it showing courage and a true desire to see.

(((wwnomore)))

I did self-medicate with my A. It was a whole lot of twisted thinking that maybe it was the only way to keep my M alive - that I could stay in it if I got my emotional needs met somewhere else.

Raises hand. Thank you for this. I just love this site.

I had tried over the years to be a better wife, better housekeeper, better companion, less anger, but I could still feel the resentment building. I kept thinking there would be some grand payoff for my patience. I just 'did not believe' in divorce. He had been the first to say the 'D' word. I had tried to talk to him until I was blue in the face, so I found someone on a newsgroup that sounded like me - and no I wasn't 'looking,' or didn't think I was..didn't recognize it.. and my intent in all of it was to get a man's POV to help me in my marriage... and maybe help him in return.

I didn't know what I had stepped into...

I hear ya WhiistleSt0p. I could abbreviate you to "WS", but that would get awfully confusing,

Anyway...yeah...I kept the peace, and I talked until I could talk no more. Felt like I was screaming and no one heard me. One day, there was this nice and attractive man that listened, that HEARD me, and wanted to hear more. He told me there was nothing I could say that would scare him off. I thought this was great! I can keep H at home, have a little banter with AP, and life would be better. Well, banter turned physical, and down I went.

I had no idea what I had walked into either, until I saw the AP really struggling to do the same thing - use random (me) pieces to make a whole. I wanted to scream at him too! Go home and spend time with your W...tell HER these things. I'm sure she'd love to hear it and would never be scared off.

DUH!!!

Stupid is as stupid does I guess. Just glad that I found it in me to stop the downward spiral.

Another question or two,maybe three.

A marriage takes two people to work and they both must be willing to do the three C's:

Commit

Communicate

Compromise

Is your H willing to do his share?

Has he shown you or has he taken steps to fill the emotional void you seem to have?

Are you willing to resolve your resentments and give him the chance to if he does change?

You can't save the marriage by yourself if he isn't a willing participant.

WW, I was referring to empathy for the other man's BS. How do you feel about what you have done to her and what do you plan to do to make restitution?

I have less sympathy for your H, as he set this inot motion by having his own affair.

@FRM - I am feeling more ready to approach H with these things. It will be a long conversation and so difficult for him to hear me rehash 17 years of hurts and resentments again. He's heard it all before. I am working on writing out what I want to say to him...what it is exactly that I need him to do...what I am able to do to help us decide the fate of the M. I also think it will take a separation (and IC/MC) to make that decision, and I am fully prepared for that.

@Reggie - I have loads of empathy for AP's BS. I've been there after all. My evidence of that is in conversations that I had with him as I tried to shine a light on what we were doing, how wrong it was, and sent him back to where he should have been all along. Restitution? I'm not sure there's anything I can do at this point. I hope her WH learned the same lessons that I did and that he will be the H he knows he can be. I know this is unpopular, but I think ending the A without a DDay and sparing her heart is the kindest thing I could have done. Do you want me to blow her world apart now? Not that I am a martyr at all. Please don't think that. I've been open with several BS in PM in an effort to help them heal from their pain...it's ugly sometimes, but it seems to help them move on. Most say they wish they never found out. What CAN I do to make restitution? Do you have a suggestion?

Most say they wish they never found out

I don't doubt that at all, however one spouse would be holding a secret that would not be only disrespectful to the vows, but also they would be holding guilt that would eat at them for the rest of their life

I think your first priority has to be your own marriage, and that begins with confessing your affair to your husband, without getting into the other, pre-A issues just yet--and that includes his own affair.

Please understand that I do understand that his affair is an unhealed wound, and it will have to be dealt with in due course. But just as whatever he might have been reacting to when he made his choices neither explain nor excuse that set of choices, neither does his affair or anything else outside of your own head explain or excuse yours. And I know you don't make the mistake of thinking anything excuses an affair, but it is very easy to fall into the trap of looking for reasons in what is context.

The reasons you need to seek are why you made this set of choices, as opposed to other choices in response to your unhappiness. The good news is that, because they are internal to you, they are under your control and can be corrected by you, unlike the rest of the world.

[This message edited by Inchoate at 2:33 PM, April 2nd (Saturday)]

Sounds like a lot of stuff to pick through.

I would first like to say, "good job" on ending the A. You're right about it clouding what you really want.

I would next give you this food for thought:

If you tell Husband about the affair, it gives him vital information about the marriage and who he's married to. He is a man, not a child, and will be even more hurt by realizing that you've kept it from him if you D or even stay without this knowledge.

If you do not tell, he will likely find out anyway. And believe me, it is so much worse this way. This is what breaks the marriage, moreso than the affairs.

If you stay in the marriage, you will need to tell him. Again, he needs to know what he is dealing with and make a real informed decision.

And, if you do decide to stay, both of you decide, you will need to learn how to tell him what you need, when it's appropriate. Easy to understand but hard to do. And it must be done more than once.

As an example, you are having a bad day and expecting him to say something comforting. Just because you expect it and it seems just, doesnt mean he knows what you need to hear or what you would like him to do .

This is of course understanding that for a period, there will be much less talking about your needs, as his need for comfort skyrockets after finding out about the affair. Yes the comfort should come from you.

What I'm getting at is, you'll need communication tools to deal with all this, and the best place I've found to get them is with a good counselor. They're worth their weight in gold.

Think about too, who do you want to be? You can't get there without working all this out, with or without Hubby.

Restitution? I'm not sure there's anything I can do at this point. I hope her WH learned the same lessons that I did and that he will be the H he knows he can be. I know this is unpopular, but I think ending the A without a DDay and sparing her heart is the kindest thing I could have done. Do you want me to blow her world apart now?

You have already done everything helpful that you can. Hopefully her H tells her, and if not, perhaps your H will. As much as I believe she needs to know, she needs to find out not from you. The only real restitution you can make is allowing her and her H time and space to heal on their own by maintaining NC.

IC is being considered as well, but I wonder what I can say when I cannot answer the fundamental questions for myself.

But isn't that what an IC can do for you? Sometimes it isn't that we can't answer the fundamental questions, but rather that we don't really know what the questions are.

It seems that being on this thread and having an outlet for your thoughts and feelings has started to help you. I wonder if continuing the work you start here with an IC wouldn't help you even more.

Whether you D or R with your H, I still think you probably need to work on you. R will not be possible without that work and if you D, I think you will feel better and grow as a result of working through your issues. My guess is there is quite a bit of resentment toward your H and you M and it would be beneficial to all to work that out (your H may need to do so as well) to R or to co-parent through a D.

Let me ask you a 2 basic questions that might help you figure things out. Are you unsure of what you want to do because you are TRULY unsure? (and be honest, write a few letters to yourself DO NOT take anyone else's feelings into consideration but your own) Or is it because you are afraid of being alone? Once you know the answer, the rest will be easy.