SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Let it lie. She is just looking for attention, more drama. You hold firm and until she gives you exactly what you want or need then it does not matter. Detach detach detach. Step away from the craziness of her lies and her choices. Believe in yourself and what you want and stand firm.

Cannon,

I just read your thread.

I am so sorry for you.

IMO her letter is sooo trying to rugsweep. From an outsider it reads like "So I hurt you, I got caught, now YOU need get over it". She definitely doesn't get it.

There is that saying "some times knowledge is a dangerous thing". It seems she picked up some phrases, but it hasn't sunk in that it is SHE who is wrong!! NOT YOU!!

Big hugs to you.

Update:

Woke up this morning and this fb message was waiting for me (WW is at work today):

I think we need to figure out what the purpose/goal is for tomorrow's counseling session. Once again, we got things back on good ground with regards to communicating this way and then we let it slide away again. As I see it, there are 3 different ways to go in regards to the session. 1. (MC) can help us learn how to communicate with each other as we go straight into a divorce...she can help us work through the intense emotions associated with divorce. 2. she can help us decide if the marriage is even repairable at this point. I think it is but I'm getting strong messages from you that you are now leaning in the other direction so I've left you alone about it. OR 3. she can help us put the marriage back together. As stated #3 is where I'd like to see this go, but I'm only one half of this. I think that rereading the messages that you saved between me and (OM#2) is actually very damaging. I printed those emails between you and (My best girlfriend - another story I can fill ya'll in on later) and reread them for years...each time I did I only felt worse about "us" and each time I read them, I read more "into" them. If that's what you're doing, then I can say from experience that it does more damage than good. I've done what you asked me to do and even "unfriended" two of mutual friends with (OM#2)because I got tired of seeing their posts about him. Some friends, like (her best friend) and ****, I won't delete because their friendship means too much and I don't want to completely alienate myself from "my" group of friends. I've just found my friends again and I've enjoyed having my own set of friends again. I can't take back what happened....I can't erase it. I'm terribly sorry for it and it makes me nauseated sometimes to think about what I've done, but like you said in regards to having emotions the other night...emotions won't make it go away. I cry most often when I'm alone because I don't like anyone else to see me cry so you have no idea how many times I've cried while driving around Athens...or how many times I've awoken in the middle of the night and cried a little. I know that you need to see more emotion, but I don't want to put on a crying display just for that. I can't cry on demand.....it comes when it comes. Anyway, we need to start thinking about what "we" want....not just what you need and want at this time and not just what I need and want at this time. You've set out your list of demands and I'm trying to comply with them. I feel like you think this is all about you right now, but it's about us and our family too. Maybe I'm wrong.

My reply:

Right now I think option #2 is the way to go. I guess I'm entering a different phase of this now and it's anger, disgust, and indifference.

I haven't reread those emails for at least a couple of weeks. Interesting you are still bringing (my best girlfriend) up, too. Not unexpected, though. Still seems you're subtly blaming me for this (for something that wasn't even in the same UNIVERSE as what you've done here. No, I didn't "cheat on you while you were pregnant" as I know you've told at least one person) and using it to justify your behavior.

"Anyway, we need to start thinking about what "we" want....not just what you need and want at this time and not just what I need and want at this time. You've set out your list of demands and I'm trying to comply with them. I feel like you think this is all about you right now, but it's about us and our family too. Maybe I'm wrong."

Yes, I think you are really, really wrong here. You still don't seem to understand the scope of this. We never really dealt with the (OM#1) thing and you leaving last Summer. We just sort of swept it under the rug. Now there's another betrayal, possibly even worse, on top of the first. You sure didn't seem to be thinking about what "we" as a family wanted for the last two years, but now it's suddenly VERY IMPORTANT for me to do so.

It's been, what, three weeks since this all came out? It seems like you want me to be OK with things and snap my fingers and be back to normal or to want to fix things. It's not going to happen that way. I still don't think you've really looked up anything about what betrayed spouses feel, because have NO IDEA what I'm going through or feeling right now

I appreciate what you've done so far as far as complying with my requests, but that's only scratching the surface. I don't know if you're even prepared for the work of reconciliation because of your impatience and defensiveness. I guess we'll see tomorrow.

Geez, Louise

Excellent reply. I suspect you already know what is best for you and are mentally preparing yourself to break free from this drama queen. I also suspect that you will be much healthier if you do.

In any event, the fact that you are not going to let her control the conversation is a very good idea.

Holy. Shit, people.

Holy shit.

Just when I thought I couldn’t get surprised any more…

So, we had our counseling appointment Thursday with the counselor we’ve been seeing since before we were even married. She’s an awesome help, and I thought she did a good job of helping start a conversation. I said it was hard for me to talk about this now because it was “too big” for me to even start. I asked for advice or a suggestion, something to read, anything to get going.

She suggested that for now, we continue to exchange messages. That seemed to be going OK. WW was getting impatient if I didn’t answer quickly enough and would then go into “you obviously don’t care” mode, but I was dealing with it.

Then, checking her fb Friday, I saw that she told a (male) friend that “the counseling session helped….me to figure out we will be getting divorced”. That started bothering me, as you might understand. She was obviously not putting much thought or effort into reconciliation.

Then last night, I went out with a friend. As usual, she got really drunk and chatty on facebook with some woman (OM#2’s ex wife). I read their conversation as it was happening on my iphone – more stuff about me being mentally and physically abusive, referencing crying many days at my dead Mother’s grave (lies and a low blow), that she was scared to leave me because I had choked her and pulled her hair and told her she was “my property”.

She had lunch with her stepdad (basically her Dad) yesterday and told the woman that her Dad knew she was being physically and emotionally abused and recommended her to leave (I’m 100% sure he didn’t. I’m calling him to blow the whistle on this) and that she really loved OM#2, was still texting him, and would be dating him when she divorced.

Well, I just went home and went to sleep, thinking I’d deal with stuff in the morning. I did check the phone records at home to see if I could catch the texting, but there was no record of it.

This morning I woke up and literally rolled over a cell phone in bed. My heart sunk as soon as I saw it; I just knew what it was (the home screen had a “balance” of $1.55). I opened it up, and sure enough saw texts made and received from OM#2 AND OM#1 (who, strangely, were buddies in high school). Her drunk ass had just gotten too sloppy last night to hide it. I went downstairs and showed the phone to her and told her I wanted her out ASAP. She didn’t even flinch and said she was ready to go. She’s had that prepaid phone SINCE LAST JULY WHEN SHE MOVED OUT!! I wonder if she ever even had NC with OM#1. Un. Fucking. Believable.

Then came the anger. When I’m angry, I’m a sarcastic asshole. Her first reaction is yelling. She started in with the “you never ever loved me, you’ve always hated me” and “I’ve been unhappy and hated you since 2007 when I found those emails” (from me to my best girlfriend venting about WW’s spending and bi-polar episodes). “You caused this, you think you’re perfect, you never care about anyone but yourself”, yada, yada yada.

She tells me that “YOU have to tell the kids this time because you’re deciding to end the marriage” LOL. I asked her if she really wanted me to tell them why the marriage was ending and she said “I don’t care! Tell them what you want!” Obviously, I have enough respect for my kids (and my own mother) to not tell them the truth.

Awesomely, kid #1 (8yo boy) comes downstairs to hear Mom yelling at Dad and saying “You are an ASSHOLE! I HATE YOU!!” and throwing away a picture mug because “it has your face on it”. SO, of course, he asks me why Mom said those things, and I had to tell him we were just having an argument. When she went upstairs I did go off on her in our room, telling her to act like a fucking grownup around the kids. I was livid.

I told her I wanted her out as soon as possible since she has another place to go. We are planning on telling the kids after she gets home from church (she just left to go serve as a Eucharistic minister. HA!) When she left I was a little worried for her safety; she entered a really dazed phase like she was drugged up. I think the enormity of what’s happening is hitting her now.

I’m ready to bury this bitch. I’ve stuck up for her for too long, never telling people why she left in the first place last year. I’ve got a good mind to call her parents and tell them what’s going on so she can’t twist it around (like she did with her Dad yesterday).

Update: I just got a text that said “Youre right. I have no real friends and now I have no family. That is no way to live”. So, great, now she’s suicidal again. I guess I will really have to call her parents now. I did just text her back and said "Do you need me to call your parents? Serious question". I want her out, but I don't need her killing herself. God, FML.

[This message edited by Cannon at 9:15 AM, June 26th (Sunday)]

Man, words can't say how sorry that I am.

I was catching up on your posts, and I was at about 1 week ago, when I saw your signature line with a D-Day#3 dated today. I scrolled to your last post...and couldn't believe it.

I knew it was still all about her...but a pay phone for the last year? And finding it right after counseling?

The blows just keep coming, don't they?

I hope you find some peace. I do think that informing family is important...especially if she is a threat to herself---and you may not be hanging around to care for her.

Sorry.

Not sure if you can use it, but did you keep the cell phone as evidence?

No, I didn't think of that. My mind was a blur at the time (I didn't think it was possible to be that shocked again). I don't know what she did with it.

Doesn't matter anyway...we are just going to use the mediation agreement we drew up last summer.

She was making some noise about "lawyering up" this morning so she wouldn't have to pay me child support (her position is being cut by about ten days), but I think that was just big talk. She reaaaly doesn't want to go to battle here. She'd get decimated.

I think sometimes they purposely (even only in their head) leave things out as clues. Like a WS who "accidentally" leaves their email page open, or the WS who "oops" leaves a cell phone out. They act shocked that they got caught but deep down I think the WANT to get caught.

Sadly...you are going to have to let her implode. I personally WOULD call her parents to let them know you are splitting up, that she may need them and if they ask you tell them a few details (the truth) but don't get too wordy. Just tell them you have tried to stay together for the family but since this is now multiple times you just can't do it anymore and hope they understand.

Then step back and let her clean up her own mess for once.

I think sometimes they purposely (even only in their head) leave things out as clues.

That thought did cross my mind, though she was dead, passed out drunk last night.

Sadly...you are going to have to let her implode. I personally WOULD call her parents to let them know you are splitting up, that she may need them and if they ask you tell them a few details (the truth) but don't get too wordy. Just tell them you have tried to stay together for the family but since this is now multiple times you just can't do it anymore and hope they understand.

Yeah. She saw her parents at church and she said they could tell something was wrong but she told them she didn't want to talk about it. They asked her out to lunch but she said no.

As pissed as I am, I do think she has the right to tell her family on her own. She said she's planning on telling them on the July 4th weekend when the whole family's up at their cabin in the mountains (guess I've seen the last of that place, come to think of it). I obviously won't be making the trip this year.

If they call me, which is possible, I'm telling them.

Then step back and let her clean up her own mess for once.

Damn right

[This message edited by Cannon at 11:28 AM, June 26th (Sunday)]

Coming hat in hand for some backup here...

She got obstinate about an hour ago and said she was going to trash the mediation agreement and lawyer up (which would probably mean me having to move out of this house. The mediation agreement gave the equity to me). I got really pissed and told her she was going for the "nuclear option" that would completely disrupt the kids' lives. She said there were plenty of houses in this neighborhood and they'd be fine-she just needed someone to look after her interests.

I stormed inside, so angry that I couldnt talk without yelling. She came back in and was very apologetic, again taking ownership for fucking everything up and saying that she's mostly angry at herself and that shed always love me. Then she started cuddling me and making me promise not to hate her as she was crying.

I hate that even for a second I started "thinking"...it's going to be such a lifestyle change for my kids, we are both going to be poor as shit. No camps, sports or activities for the kids, month to month living, not having one on one time with my kids, stretching my 10 year old car for God knows how much longer...

I'm at a weak point people and I'm a bit scared. Pump me back up, SI peeps

I don't live the high life, but I was happy with what we had built over the years.

At first, the thought of divorce would just paralyze me. Where would I go? What would I do?

I am going to be a 43 year old living back with his father. That was what was consuming me.

But her lack of respect finally overcame all of that. I realized that I would rather blow up everything we made(the nuclear route), than continue living like I have been. If I have to file bankruptcy? So be it.

I just wanted out of this hell that I have been living in.

And when I truly accepted this philosophy--all I can say is that it was liberating. I was finally free--if I chose to do so. The last bits of codependency had left me.

It is not healthy for you or the kids to continue living like you are. Your WW is close to unsalvagable by anyone...including herself. You are the one who has to show your kids the right way to live. Maybe someday they will have a stepmom that reciprocates the love that she is given by you. Maybe they will finally see a "normal" marriage.

I am sorry, brother...nobody likes this shit.

Now come down off that ledge, and take back control of your life.

Get. This. Woman. OUT. of. Your. Life.

Early on in this thread I told you she was batshit crazy and to proceed with the divorce.

You need to lawyer up HARD. Keep EVERY SHRED OF EVIDENCE. Everything.

Do not underestimate how deceitful she is and will be in all this. She clearly has no problem making up stories that you are abusive. You need evidence.

You need to take this evidence to your lawyer and when she starts in on how she wants X, Y, and Z? You have your lawyer tell her, yeah, see you in court. I will be deposing OM1, OM2. For the public record. And whatever you asked for in the mediated agreement? Now you want twice that and more. And maybe if she plays nice, you'll "negotiate" and give her the settlement you originally agreed on.

You go pitbull lawyer on this.

DO NOT ENGAGE WITH HER. NC. 180.

She is out to get an emotional reaction from you and use it against you. You need to dig deep into your deepest place and find your calm and your reserve and motor through this.

You will be liberated and so will your kids, in time. Lots and lots of survivors of divorce on this board and of single parenting, and many, many happy ever afters. I am one. See my tag line.

You can DO THIS.

I agree with lawyer up, hard.

Get a voice activated recorder and have it with you at all times especially when it comes to discussing things with her.

Do not leave the house. No matter how bad it gets, do not leave unless you are forced to legally.

Thanks so much for the 2x4s, y'all.

I took my boys out tonight after supper to a free outdoor show and had a great time. Feel much better after getting out among people!

WW is severely moping around the house in full "woe is me" mode. She's taking the drama to fb too, which sucks. I asked her to take down a post that said "This is the beginning of the end" because we have a ton of mutual friends and I'm not ready to go there yet (and certainly don't want to play this out publicly on fb. I hate that drama / attention shit).

Anyway, she's backed off the "lawyer up" talk. I was prepared to get a pit bull, too - a lady I consulted during our separation last year (and thanks for the ideas, squiffle!). The only thing she wants to change is instead of giving me all the house equity, she wants half if I have to sell. That seems fair enough to me, though I will run it by a couple of trusted people tomorrow.

She started moving shit into the rental today. Dishes and pans, and clothes tomorrow. Every time it's like, "OK! Here I go! Taking stuff to the rental! Walking out!"

Ugh. The plan is she'll be all out the weekend of the eighth. Gonna be a looong two weeks, but I got you guys behind me.

Thanks!!!

Cannon,

I mean this in the nicest, most compassionate way, really. But you are an emotional retard right now. We all are after another DDay. You're in shock and you might think you have your wits about you, but you don't.

Don't "run it by some trusted friends." You run it by YOUR LAWYER. The pitbull. That's what you pay them for. Because you are too emotionally invested and fucked up to navigate this mess in your own best interest. That's what a lawyer will do.

We have sadly BTDT. We have been emotional retards and fucked ourselves over in divorce. So please use the wisdom of those who have gone before you and DO THIS RIGHT. Do what your lawyer tells you. You cannot mediate with a crazy person. There is no good faith.

She is a pathological liar. Why should you believe ANYTHING she tells you with regards to a divorce or the kids?

Outsource this to your lawyer. Please.

[This message edited by squiffle at 6:23 AM, June 27th (Monday)]

Hey Cannon. Came back to check up on you and it looks like shit has hit the fan.

Keep with the lawyer plan. Better to be ready and not need to than need to be ready and not be.

Good luck buddy.

(P.S Squiffle is pretty awesome isn't she?)

And, like clockwork, now she wants to R

I know i don't deserve another chance but here's my proposal. I only stray when I drink and start getting on here or I find a phone to use. I can stop that behavior by deactivating this account altogether. I can also either stop drinking or at least slow down significantly. My straying has been a result of anger. I've held that anger in for years and it came out of me in such an ugly way. I don't want a divorce. I want to repair what used to be a marriage that was so solid. I love you and can't imagine life as your ex. I have to get happy or I will continue this self destructive behavior. I think that happiness begins with backing away from the computer and living life again. You are the best part of my life.....not the kids, but you. I can be the best part of yours if you let me. I need to focus on you. I've been focusing on myself for years. It finally hit me early this morning that I've done nothing but take....I need to give to you. I've given to my work, to these volunteer projects, to myself, but I've failed to give to you. I realize that now.....it hit me finally. I got that little phone last year and hardly ever used it. It was at my rental house until I found it again the other day. I honestly forgot I had it. I took it with me because I thought I would donate it to the **** center since I wasn't using it. Then I got to drinking too much and started using it. I'm not going to play the victim anymore. If I stay sober that's easy. I just want you and I want to be the kind of wife that I should have been all along. I was wrong for years before my affair. I now understand what it takes.. Before I thought being married just meant being myself beside you. It means more than that now. It means giving up a piece of myself so that we form a more functioning unit. The piece I need to give up is my selfishness.. I can do that for you. I was wrong, I didn't show you how much I loved you for years. I took without giving. Please forgive me

Read squiffle's last two posts, reread them. Then take his advice!!!

(((cannon)))

Sheesh... Just want to underscore the point about carrying a var and possibly keeping a diary of all your interactions. She will at some point hurl those accusations of DV, abuse, etc to gain sympathy and legal advantage...it's just a question of when. Don't let her screw you.