SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Just as I thought...I am back.

WH has continuously fallen off the wagon, just as I told him he would, his doctor told him he would and his BIL told him he would. But no, he didn't listen and didn't get any help.

He made a great step today and called AA and talked to someone. He is going to a meeting on Monday. Is seriously humiliated.

On the dry drunk topic, my H is a dry adulteror and a dry drunk. He claims that it is all my fault he is this way. I ask for specifics of what I do that causes these serious behaviours...there are none.

What is funny is that I have quit drinking because I think it would be insensitive for me to drink in front of him. Mind you, I top out at 2 glasses of wine a week, so this is nt an everyday occurance. Now, i don't drink a thing and he is sneaking drinks. How crappy, I would love a glass of wine and have been holding off for months now and he hasn't been at all!

I am going to have to find that on-line Al-Anon group. Sounds like something I could actually do with my work schedule.

fleury

I'm sorry I can't be of help to anyone with an alcoholic because I'm learning to deal with one. There are a lot of wise people here who know things and THANK YOU whoever you are for help and support.

My alcoholic H...well, I just give up. He's been on the alcohol train since 2005. And gets worse and worse! I'm just so tired of trying to help him, trying to get him to open his eyes to his alcoholism. He is now having about a 6 pack a DAY of beer!!! I have no idea how he even wakes up in the mornings to go to work.

I'm scared for all of us. I've calmly discussed time and again with him about the danger but he turns a deaf ear. He's had 3 DUI's in the last ten years and is probably headed for another one soon. DS17 just found H's 'lunch' box yesterday before H got it out of his truck after work, and found a plastic ring with one beer left in it. I'm afraid he's drinking at work now. I'm about out of my mind with this crap!!!

Problem is it's me and youngest DS 17 who will suffer. We'll have nothing if he goes to jail. He's already cost us about $12,000 in tickets, fines, jail bonding, etc., over the last decade. He's spent every freaking penny we've got!

I've finally detached. Just feel nothing except anger most days. And so sad when I look at my 3 children and see what H has done to each of us!!!

Guess I just needed to vent. Sorry for all of you who have been dealing with an alcoholic.

I've been reading through some of the Al-Anon materials...what amazing insight..

I had NO idea...no idea of any of this.

Two of the alcoholic's weapons: the ability to arouse anger and the ability to arouse anxiety. Conciously or unconciously the alcoholic is projecting an image of self-hatred against us. If we react angrily the image is verified...

Guilty as charged...who knew?

The alcoholic used alcohol to escape pain by drinking and learns how to use the family to escape the pain of the consequences. Needless to say fear and resentment take over. That is why family members need help, otherwise the entire family becomes emotionally ill.

Do's and Dont's:

Don't treat the alcoholic like a child. Consider this person as if he or she were suffering from any other disease.

Do attend Al-Anon meetings regularly and find a group where you feel comfortable. If there isn't a group in your area, start one.

Don't check up to see how much the alcoholic is drinking, search for hiddne liquor, or pour the liquor out.

Do reach out for help in between meetings by calling members and reading Al-Anon literature daily

Don't nage the alcoholic about the drinking. Never argue while he or she is under the influence of alcohol.

Do remember, we can't control, cause or cure alcoholism

Don't preach, scold, or enter into quarrels with the alcoholic

Do attend at least six meetings before deciding if Al-Anon is right for you.

Alcoholics suffer from feelings of guilt beyond anything the nonalcoholic can imagine. Reminding them of failures, neglect of family and friends, and social errors is all wasted effort.

There's sooooo much information. These are just tidbits from some pamphlets in the Al-Anon materials I picked up.

What's most important is to help ourselves. Change can begin with the non alcoholics...

Major hugs and love to all dealing with this...

Thanks for your post Sierra Grace! I'm going to check into Alanon more strongly. There's a sometimes meeting group in our area and I haven't gotten in touch with anyone yet, so will try harder. I'm in no place to leave...so I need to learn survival skills for me and DS.

Can you answer what you meant by

"Conciously or unconciously the alcoholic is projecting an image of self-hatred against us."

My H is eaten up with guilt over the A and how horribly he's treated us all. And rather than try to stop and make amends, he drinks more and more.

I shudder to think that he's drank TWO 6 packs today!!! He puked on our sofa and then tried to blame it on our two chihuahuas!!! I calmly told him he puked and he still denied. I'm amazed I even have a mind left after dealing with this insanity. I feel so sad for DS, this is what he has for a father.

Crushed1, I am SO new to this myself. By the way, beside Al-Anon, there are groups called AlaTeen for your DS..

What I wrote I'd gotten from an Al-Anon brochure..."A Guide for the Family of the Alcoholic"

Maybe someone with more experience can explain better but from what I'm learning, the Alcoholic is riddled with guilt and shame...whatever it stems from that caused them to drink in the first place.

Here is part of where I got that from:

The Alcoholic's Weapons

The first weapon is the ability to arouse anger or provoke loss of temper. If the family member or friend becomes angry and hostile, this person is less able to help the alcoholic. Conciously or unconciously, the alcoholic is projecting an image of self-hatred against the other person. If it is met by angry, hostile attacks, the image is verified. The alcoholic then justifies the past drinking in his or her own mind and now has an additional excuse to drink in the future. Losing one's temper destroys the chance to help at that moment.

The second weapon of the alcoholic is the ability to arouse anxiety. Anxiety compels the family to do for the alcoholic what the alcoholic needs to do individually before the disease can be arrested and recovery begun.....

It goes on and on and is from a free brochure I picked up at a meeting....

Let's just say, xSO was BRILLIANT at arousing my anger and anxiety through the years...and still is...who knew???

I'm trying to get on a quick learning curve here for my own sanity after all of this...

[This message edited by SierraGrace at 10:13 PM, June 4th (Monday)]

Last night was horrible...H drank about 3 glasses of wine...I don't know if he had anything else. It doesn't take much more than 2 drinks to get him plastered due to the gastric bypass surgery.

He tried dragging me and DD (25) into an argument about trying the mashed potatoes!!!! I wouldn't give in and get into the argument. I eyeballed DD to indicate that he had been drinking so she wouldn't get sucked into it.

It's so stupid, mashed potatoes?, really?....

He then continued to try to engage the two of us into the fight mode he was set on going on about no one respected him, no one listens to him, everyone thinks he's always wrong and on and on...

Finally dinner was finished and I cleared the table and cleaned up. DD went to her room and Mr. A-Hole fell asleep on the sofa like he does every night.

I found an online group Al-Anon on yahoo-can't tell if if it will helpful or not

How did my life end up like this? Where does addiction end...in death?

I've been living with an alcoholic for 40 years. When the loneliness became unbearable I went to Al-non.

My husband doesn't think he is an alcoholic because he can quit if he wants too. His words. The problem isn't quitting it not starting again.

Egg shells is the anxiety that we all feel. I can feel the tension building around 4:00 every day. That's when he has reached the "monster" level or Mr. Hide. He always sneaks alcohol and I hate the look on his face when he does this.

Living with an alcoholic is "crazy making" at it worst. There is a lot to learn about this sickness that we live with. Actually, we become sicker than they are. And that's where Alanon helped me the most. Eventually, I got a sponsor myself. She was one tough cookie and kicked my butt when needed.

I suggest that everyone attend at least one AA meeting. You don't have to speak and always just use your first name.

Just For Today

Just for today I will be happy. This assumes what Abraham Lincoln said is true: 'Most folks are about as happy as they make their mind up to be.' Happiness comes from within; it is not a matter of externals.

Just for today I will try to adjust myself to what is; not try to adjust everything to my own desires. I will take my family, my business, and my luck as they come and fit myself to them.

Just for today I will take care of my body. I will exercise it, care for it, nourish it, not abuse or neglect it, so that it will be a perfect machine for my bidding.

Just for today I will try to strengthen my mind. I will learn something useful. I will not be a mental loafer. I will read something that requires effort, thought, and concentration.

Just for today I will exercise my soul in three ways: I will do someone a good turn and not get found out. I will do at least two chores I don't want to do, as William James suggests, just for exercise.

Just for today I will be agreeable. I will look as well as I can, speak diplomatically, act courteously, be liberal with praise, criticize not at all, nor find fault with anything, and not try to regulate or improve anyone.

Just for today I will try to live through this day only, not tackle my whole life problem at once. I can do things for twelve hours that would appall me if I had to keep them up for a lifetime.

Just for today I will have a program. I will write down what I expect to do every hour. I may not follow it exactly, but I will have it. It will eliminate two pests: hurrying and indecision.

Just for today I will have a quiet half hour by myself and relax. In this half hour sometimes I will think of God, so as to get a little more perspective into my life.

Just for today I will be unafraid. Particularly, I will be unafraid to be happy; to enjoy what is beautiful; to love; and to believe that those I love, love me.

WEll,

Not sure if my H is an alcoholic or not. He definitely drinks a lot and more than I think he should.

Anyone ever get divorced just for this?

I'm not good at thinking "It's a disease". Diabetes is a disease. If I had a spouse that refused insulin, was an a-hole everytime his sugars were too high... NOt sure I would stick around for that either. sigh....

I need to join this thread!! My WH is definitely without question an alcoholic. Even when we were first dating 12 years ago I saw the signs which I know too well because my late father was also an alcoholic. But I was young, partying myself, and in love. Now he has had an A and we are living separately. Yesterday we talked, he cried and said he knows he is an alcoholic. He still denies the A but I have proof. I think he is just doing the typical alcoholic lying to cover up lies.

Deep down I feel very bad for him. I love him but I know we cannot continue this toxic relationship. I really hope he goes and gets help but that is his choice - when we were together he wouldn't consider it. Myself, I am going to go to my first Al anon meeting tonight. The weird thing is when we were together I was scared to go because I thought it would make him mad. Now we are separating I am going to skip right in that door!!!

I don't think it has so much to do with how much or how little they drink. It's how it affects you.

I used to think the same thing, my husband isn't an alcoholic just a problem drinker. It took probably 20 years for me to realize that he was an alcoholic. Denial on both people is the problem.

I knew I didn't want to leave my husband and was resistant to go to Al-anon because I thought some one would insist I did. Or I would finally have to wake up and realize I really needed to get out of this marriage.

I married my husband in 1972 he was just home from Vietnam. I saw the red flags but turned a love sick blind eye to it. I wish I had not now that I have been married to him for 40 years. It is a progressive sickness that becomes a disease because it affects the entire family.

Oddly enough in 2008 he decided to prove he was not an alcoholic and stopped drinking. During this brief period is when he started his EA with the dry cleaner person from hell.

My husband used to be a happy drunk now he because sullen, brooding and eventually a "monster".

Alanon helped me at first and I gave it a year. After that I just decided to leave and not go back. I have always been a self-help kind of person.

Give it a try and don't be afraid of what they will think, believe me they don't care what you think. So what if they feel threaten by it. This is something that you are doing just for you.

Sorry, this thread doesn't get much attention.

Thank You Heart in a Blend and I am sorry for what you have gone through in your marriage.

Pentup - only you can decide when enough is enough. Only you can decide if you can live with the drinking and the lies that go along with alcoholism.

As far as being a disease... it is and a horrible one at that. It's a disease that tricks the mind into craving alcohol above all else and to do anything to get it. BUT, unlike other diseases it is one there is a choice with. Not an easy choice, but a choice. Some are not strong enough to make the choice to change their behavior and take the easier route to blame others and circumstances for their problems. Even if they do stop drinking, the alcoholic behavior may continue... blaming everything else for their problems rather than look in the mirror to see the source.

Take care of yourself. That is all you have control over, not what the alcoholic will do.

My local al-anon group meeting is on Friday nights 7-9pm.

By that time of an evening, my H is wasted. If I tell him where I am going, he will go mad.

Our 12 yr old DD doesnt like being left in the house with him when he is drunk.

Therefore, I cannot get there.

But I do access their online site.

Britchick-

I just read this...

so sorry that you are dealing with such a bad situation.

Alanon would be so good for you.

Isn't there someone IRL that you cold turn to to help you out? a friend? or a relative? that could watch your DD while you go to the meeting? and...someone that you could tell your WH that you are visiting?

Is he a mean drunk and acts like this when he is drinking?

or is he always so controlling?

The more I read about alcoholism the more I am convinced that my path to recovery from recent events in my marriage is to focus on the nature of alcoholic-codependent relationships.

For the last two years, I have been telling my mother and closest friends that I want to get a divorce, but I know that I was so caught up in codependent thinking that I may have stayed in the marriage for years and years, or maybe forever. More than anything, I was so lonely in our marriage. I spent last summer alone in the back yard with the dog. H was "working" 12 hrs a day, 7 days a week at his business. I was completely checked out of the marriage. I also told H last summer that I was thinking about D, and his response was that he didn't think he could ever stop, but that he hoped I stayed with him to the end (made me very sad to hear this on so many levels).

So, in all honesty, his A was almost like a gift to me in that it finally became impossible to stay in the marriage. He has told me that he wants to try to save our marriage, but all the while is courting his OW. He is specifically doing things with her that I have been asking him to do for years but he would not. He is actually taking her to parties and neighborhood events that we were invited to together before the affair! I have been lifted out of the picture, and she has been dropped right in to my place. It hurts that he is giving to her what he would not give to me, but my rational mind tells me that it can't last. He is doing these things to show himself that he really is a good partner, it was ME who was the problem. He wanted to do these fun things all along but X or Y or Z was wrong with me, so he could not enjoy them. My rational mind also tells me that I was miserable in this marriage, he would not give to me what I needed, so what does it matter if he gives to another? HE WOULD NOT GIVE TO ME. That was never going to change.

I have got to get over my jealousy, my rage at the injustice of this. This new relationship will not cure him. She is getting a 21-year maintenance alcoholic with severe FOO issues, possibly NPD, or possibly Aspergers syndrome (his Dr. suggested this possible diagnosis earlier this year). Maybe OW is a co-dependent fool like me and will stay with him for a long time (but he is much further along in his drinking now, and his behavior is more extreme than ever). Maybe she actually does have some personal boundaries (not likely, but maybe) and will wise up and leave him. One thing is for sure, he will NOT leave her. He will cling to her like a life raft.

I just ordered "Co-dependent No More" on amazon and will get myself into al-anon as soon as I am settled in my new place. My marriage was such a disaster. Why do I grieve so much when I remember the little crumbs he threw me? When I go past the restaurants where we sat together, him on his phone, me looking out the window? That is co-dependency, settling for the crumbs.

(((riverinegypt)))

It will do you no good to think of the injustice. It is not about you with an alcoholic or a cheater. It is them. It was not you that drove them to drinking nor you that can save them. That is something they and they alone bear responsibility for.

You can't save a relationship by yourself. It has to be two people trying and an active alcoholic can't do that. It is all about them; their wants, desires, and need for validation. If you tried, you'd be called "controlling" by the alcoholic and they would throw it in your face claiming it was you that caused their problems. For an alcoholic it is too hard to face the real problem with them so the search for others to blame like their spouses and family. You mention he will cling to his enabler and that may be as long as this person will enable him to continue. She may be as broken as him... two lost souls clinging onto one another. Not what a healthy relationship is.

Do get into Al-Anon to at least give it a try. Do read the book on codependance. Consider going to a counselor also to help you put what has happened into perspective and to help you with the gamut of emotions you are feeling.

Take care of yourself. That is all you have control over... what you will do.

**bump**

WBF is recovering from depression + alcoholism + affair.

For WBF and I, it took finally getting him into detox, then rehab, then counseling to make any kind of positive steps.

It's a long, arduous, infuriating, frustrating, heartbreaking, enraging road.

We're at the beginning of our path to reconcilliation. I can see both potholes and positives along the way. Navigating won't be easy but I hope with all my heart that it's worth it.

[This message edited by Cambium29 at 2:06 AM, August 25th (Saturday)]

Cambium-

It is a long, tough journey.

But, it can all work out.

My FWH said on our anniversary that last year was the happiest year of his life.

I kind of looked at him crossed eye when he said that because after all we had been married for 35 yrs, together for 39 yrs and had children together and had weathered many things over the years...

and this was his happiest? 5 yrs post d-day?

well, I think what it is ...is that he has been sober for 5 yrs. and even better he has truly seen the light (with the help of IC and AA). He has changed. For the first time he has been living an unselfish,honest, life.

And he likes the man he sees when he looks in the mirror.

Alcoholics and addicts tend to become very selfish- hence the natural progression to have affairs.

Their lives spiral down into a toxic mess.

Stopping the affair and getting sober are the first steps to recovery.

Working on internal changes via spirituality, IC, AA etc.

is what helps create permanent changes.

I hate this...hate hate hate hate hate.

I hate what this has done to my life.

I hate what this is doing to me.

I hate what this means for my future.

I cannot believe that what comes in a bottle can be so goddamn powerful.

I am so mad. I am beyond pissed.

I cannot believe this is my life.