SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

ugh, bad day, i am not sure where else to turn...usually post in Madhatter's...but this forum seems more fitting...short story husband has always had a problem controlling drinking...not an everyday drinker, but when he drinks he cant stop. ive always had issues with it as I grew up with a very alcoholic father (still is). as time went on, husbands drinking turned into not coming home, staying out, not answering phone calls, me loading up kids in car to go find him, wrecking cars, etc. i choose to deal with this in a poor way, going out myself. i recognize that i developed a problem with alcohol as well, wanted to drink away all the issues in my life. life went on like that for much longer than it should have, however i made changes that involved not going out without my h anymore, that lasted for a significant amount of time. then i had my dday. started working through that..then h met OW etc. so we are trying to now work through that (adding-he got his second dui day after dday, because he needed to go see OW at the bar)..anyway...so we have some ongoing issues but i am working hard and although i have had a bad night or two in general i feel proud about decisions i have made and behaviors i have had.

not so much about my h though...then there was this past friday.

he wants to take me out...short story, one thing leads to another, i want to go home, he doesn't he gets angry says mean things, this makes me angry so i say some mean things back. i want to go home, i even offer to drink with him at home, he says no demands i take him back to bar, i do. he sends me a couple texts telling me im a crazy bia. then he stops responding. i wait an hour or so go bacck to bar to pick him up, send him texts im there please come home with me, he ignores me no responses, etc. adding that the people we originally went with are no longer there. so i leave and go home, continue to send some mean texts to him as once again he is choosing the bar and god knows what else over me as i once again sit at home with our kids and worry about who what when where why.

he ends up walking home, he has to be at work 3 hours later, i wake him and wake him and wake him. he is probably still drunk, says lots of mean things to me again and goes to work, continues to text me mean things for about two hours i guess until he starts to sober up at which point i get the im sorry texts.

i stand my ground, so angry at him. but there is still life to live and plans that were made with our children so we move along through the weekend. last night i cant keep it in anymore, im so angry at him. i feel worthless, idk if he is cheating or not, i know he doesnt go out looking but hes a good looking guy and girls come up to him, thats what happened with ow. thing is i cant even get him to be honest about this...he's trickle truthing the events of that night. i say i want to know where he was but my pride wont let me ask him, he yells you know where i effing was (bc i dropped him off at the bar we had been at) i said how would i know thats where you were...you didnt come home for three hours, why would i assume you stayed there? he said where the eff else would i go...i say well x, y, z who knows...you didnt communicate with me. he doesnt say anything. so then i say so who were you with, he tells me i was with bob, i say then who because i talked to bob when i came back up to pick you up and he said he was going to other bar. so who were you with when bob left. then h says oh i went to other bar too. WHAT? you jsut freaked out yelling at me that i should know where you are, i say maybe you went to other bar you say nothing and now because im calling you out, oh yeah i went to other bar? i say why didnt you just tell me that? he says i thought i told you already. i said when bc we havent talked about this. he says when i got home that night. i said really you cant remember what time you came home or calling me an effin bia but you can remember that you told me you went to other bar? are you serious? goes back and forth, h jsut doesnt get it...tells me no matter what he says im going to be angry (ummm yeah i am) tells me hes sorry thats all he can say (umm no) and still hasnt given me any details really about the night...plus we are only 2 months out from his dday.

idk i guess im jsut venting hoping maybe someone will understand. idk what else to do.

he asked if i hated him becuase thats how i was acting...i told him i hate that person, yes, he has put me through hell for 5 years and yes, i hate who that person is. all he said is i do too, but h never makes any attempt to really change. help?

Spidey-

It sounds as if your WH's drinking is a problem. It is having a negative impact on his life, his marriage,his relationships.

You can be an alcoholic and not drink on a daily basis.

If his binge drinking is as bad as you describe then it's a problem.

And, if you really monitor his drinking you will probably find out that he's drinking a lot more often than you realize.

You cannot begin to really deal with the infidelity until he is sober.

Have you considered going to an ALANON meeting? or IC?

i currently go to IC, H has gone twice to MC with me at which point his drinking and problem with alcohol was discussed. When he is sober he understands how he behaves when hes drinking, he doesn't like it, he knows he makes bad choices, etc. however when we try to go for x amount of time without drinking then he always says lets just have one or two, and that night he may only have one or two so then he thinks ok i can handle it and then the next time its 10 or 12 or whatever and the bad behaviors and choices and meanness all come back...i just dont know how to make him see it...i dont know how to fix this, and hes so angry at me because im angry, like he is sober today and said he is sorry so what more do i want...ugh

how would he react if you asked him to go to an AA meeting?

Hi Spidey. Al Alon would be a wonderful place for you, if you feel up to going.

One of the main things I learned there was that I can't control anyone else - their behavior, their drinking, nothing. All I can do is take care of myself, enforce my own boundaries, and be the one to decide when enough is enough. An alcoholic isn't going to stop until he/she hits their bottom, and you begging and pleading and fighting is going to do crap except exhaust you and piss you off.

I think you mentioned that you developed a problem with alcohol as well - if I may, I'd suggest that you focus on that, and on you, as sort of a 180 tactic. You're not capable of fixing him (no one is, except himself)...so maybe you could spend some time with your IC or in AA building yourself back up. Living with an alcoholic and abusing alcohol takes a hit on our self-esteem. I'm glad you were able to recognize your own issues with booze, and hopefully move forward from them. :)

Only you can decide when you've had enough of the crazy alcoholic roller coaster. (And btw, the way your husband drinks does classify him as an alcoholic -- the cycle of binges, followed by remorse, followed by a vow to stop, and then a "maybe just 1", and then next thing you know, he's off getting shit faced every night again.)

It may also help you to remember that alcoholism is a disease, and not one that a simple pill will cure. There's something fundamentally and biologically different in an alcoholic's brain, that compels him/her to keep on drinking, despite the horrible consequences that keep happening again and again.

You have choices here Spidey, which I hope makes you feel hopeful. I know that his cycles probably leave you feeling frustrated and powerless, but please remember that you DO have strength and options.

(HUGS)

I got a lot of help out of Al-Anon. I went to a lot of meetings, per my therapist's recommendation. I was trying to hit one meeting a day for awhile. When I couldn't find an Al-Anon meeting, I'd go to an open AA meeting. I got a ton out of those - very courageous people there.

It was hard to accept that I couldn't help my X, but I eventually got it and started to take care of myself. {{{hugs, Spidey}}}

Thank you for the responses. While I grew up with an alcoholic father, who still is who i have little to nothing to do with, it is hard for me to accept I cant make my husband see it (although I know i cant) but i feel like i should be able to love him into being sober or will him into it or something.

everytime it happens i feel like it takes another piece of me and he sees it as what it was a night out, everybody goes out and gets stupid drunk from time to time.

I do not think he would go to any AA meetings, he is currently going through alcohol counseling classes as part of his dui and while he says according to those classes he is an alcoholic, i dont think he actually believes that. how would one go about finding an al-anon meeting? And could i be a fly on the wall there? I am not very good at being vulnerable to people (hence my posting on an anonymous board).

Thank you again for the advice, Im just not sure how to make this better and I am still angry and that makes him so angry at me, i hate fighting with him. I have an IC appt on Friday, maybe that will help.

how would one go about finding an al-anon meeting? And could i be a fly on the wall there? I am not very good at being vulnerable to people (hence my posting on an anonymous board).

I think the best way to find a meeting is to google al-anon and your state.

Yes! You can be a fly on the wall! Usually what I have seen is first-time attendees don't say a word. They are certainly welcome to, but do not have to. I didn't. Another lady I know said she didn't speak for the first six months; she sat and cried instead. I certainly cried every time I shared for the first year! LOL I was in pretty bad shape. It's normal for there to be lots of tears, and they have a box of tissues. At the beginning of the meetings, some read-aloud pages are passed around the table, and you can even pass on reading if you want. No one thinks anything negative. We all remember our first meeting. My friend that didn't speak for six months said the first time she tried to go to a meeting, she did a "drive-by"...drove into the parking lot, tried to peek in the windows, and circled on around back out!

What I did was find an online meeting first. After that, I felt comfortable that I had a sense of the meeting format. Then, my X actually asked if I'd support him by going to an AA meeting with him! I did, and then he went to one by himself and then he quit. I started Al-Anon for me, and that's been very good for me. As I wrote above, I hit a lot of meetings the first year. They were all a bit different because of the people there, but I got something out of each one.

The main thing I got out of that first year's meetings was that no matter how horrible I felt, there was a place I could go where I could spill my guts and find love and acceptance instead of judgment, and get a hug and phone numbers afterwards!

Thank you.

R'ing with an addict doesn't get a whole lot of action, so I think I will stop in here a little bit more.

Drinking was not my fWS thing but men, drugs, shopping, stealing, Ect were. Its all the same right? That obsessive, compulsive, self-centered world that they live in. Always waiting for the next shoe to drop.

We have both found a lot of freedom and support in 12 step fellowships. That is actually my "deal breaker". If her 12 step work stops so does R.

Chico-

I agree with you. I see many similarities between the addictive behaviors of my FWH in terms of alcohol etc. and the infidelity.

A good book about: The Addictive Personality by C. Naaken

I read it to understand more about my FWH's alcoholism but found a lot of the information was relevant to other addictions as well.

And whether or not you want to characterize infidelity as a sex addiction I think everyone can agree that it is a compulsion.

Most every WS describes it as something that they knew was wrong and wanted to stop doing and yet could not.

I am also very grateful that my FWH decided to go to AA right after d-day. That combined with the fact that he went to IC was what saved our marriage.

After 30 years of marriage and 30 yrs of him denying that he had a problem with alcohol-he finally faced his demons and realized that he needed to stop the toxic behavior.

But..as I often say on SI..simply stopping the behavior-whether it's alcohol, drugs, or sexual acting out-is not enough.

Ending the affair is not enough.

They have to change their toxic thinking.

And a 12 step program helps them do that.

ToTrustagain-

Thanks for sharing your expereinces.

Compartmented-

My FWH said the same thing about AA meetings. That each meeting has a slightly different personality in terms of the members that attend etc.

So, it is worthwhile, to shop around at first and visit a few different meetings to find a good fit.

The same is true for ALANON meetings.

(((spidey)))

I understand your pain. I lived it for many years. I knew my h was an alcoholic, boy did I, but i was woefully ignorant of how that alcoholism was damaging me.

I would fight with him, cry, beg him to stop. None of it ever mattered, he didnt/couldnt stop. Ultimately, that addiction ended our marriage and then he had a couple of affairs.

Though we are together, i understand full r is really not possible while he continues to drink.

I have never asked him to stop after dday. why? He had quit once before for two years. When he relapsed at the end of the two years is when all hell broke loose and his affairs started. So i am afraid of sobriety. It doesnt make sense does it?

Crazy making stuff.

You know, i read once that it takes an alcoholic's thinking a whole year to become clear after they stop?

Have you read "codependent no more" by Melody Beattie?

I found it helpful in identifying for me that i am in fact to some degree codependent. It helps to explain the crazy cycle we can get sucked into when we live with an alcoholic. it will help to make you stronger and break that cycle. Helps you to stop worrying someone else's problem and focus on yourself.

I am also a child of an alcoholic, spidey.

We learn to cope with such craziness as children, so when we become adults, alcoholism in our spouses does not seem so abnormal to us.

its just sad, but one we can work towards resolving. its just going to take us longer.

hang on there spidey

(((spidey)))

I understand your pain. I lived it for many years. I knew my h was an alcoholic, boy did I, but i was woefully ignorant of how that alcoholism was damaging me.

I would fight with him, cry, beg him to stop. None of it ever mattered, he didnt/couldnt stop. Ultimately, that addiction ended our marriage and then he had a couple of affairs.

Though we are together, i understand full r is really not possible while he continues to drink.

I have never asked him to stop after dday. why? He had quit once before for two years. When he relapsed at the end of the two years is when all hell broke loose and his affairs started. So i am afraid of sobriety. It doesnt make sense does it?

Crazy making stuff.

You know, i read once that it takes an alcoholic's thinking a whole year to become clear after they stop?

Have you read "codependent no more" by Melody Beattie?

I found it helpful in identifying for me that i am in fact to some degree codependent. It helps to explain the crazy cycle we can get sucked into when we live with an alcoholic. it will help to make you stronger and break that cycle. Helps you to stop worrying someone else's problem and focus on yourself.

I am also a child of an alcoholic, spidey.

We learn to cope with such craziness as children, so when we become adults, alcoholism in our spouses does not seem so abnormal to us.

its just sad, but one we can work towards resolving. its just going to take us longer.

hang on there spidey

Thank you kiki for the encouraging words. Sometimes i feel so stupid because i see the writing on the wall in regards to his drinking, but i still think i can make it better. other times i feel jealous, jealous of all of our friends that can go out and really only have 2 drinks, why cant he and I be those people.

i know he is disappointed in how he behaves when hes drinking, the things he says, the way he acts, the choices he makes, he is ashamed of that person...but not enough to stop it seems. i just wish i could fix this.

Spidey, as so many others have said, I feel your pain. I am so sorry to see you hear, struggling with this devastating family disease.

Your H is an alcoholic, no doubt about it. The "I'll just have one or two" is classic - it is called bargaining. The bingeing, the remorse, all of it - it is classic.

My WH is an alcoholic. I was actually in denial about it for years because bingeing/bars wasn't his "thing" (it became so during A#2 for a few months and it was hell). My point is, alcoholism manifests itself in many ways. As in, alcoholics exhibit their drinking in a multitude of ways. What my WH does versus your WH versus any other alcoholic is going to be different, but they are all alcoholics. What defines alcoholism is what a previous poster said - when it is wreaking havoc on your life, then you know alcoholism is present.

In terms of Al-anon, I went frequently for about 6 months until I decided the program wasn't for me. However, I will be forever grateful to the people there and I would never hesitate to tell others to go and try it out. Their stories and their support is a salve to fresh wounds. And their slogans ("one day at a time" and "let go and let god") still resonate with me as I heal. I highly suggest you go. I went to about 6-8 different groups and every single one was warm and supportive. Give it a good, real shot - weeks or even months. If it isn't for you, as was the case for me, there are no hard feelings, no commitment, no failure, nothing.

My WH is in AA. The group is a great source of strength for him. He is also in IC. 7 months sober. If I had begged and pleaded for him to go a few years ago, even after my first D-day...he probably wouldn't have gone. The reason he has been working the steps faithfully, the reason he's committed to sobriety, is because he hit rock bottom on D-Day 2, when the truth came out that he had two affairs before D-day 1. How did he hit rock bottom? My ass was out the door. Literally, I was getting my ducks in a row to D. I'm not saying you should use this as a tactic to get him sober. That wasn't my intent. I just couldn't live with an alcoholic who had cheated twice. It was too much to bear. And, for his part, I think he realized the insanity of his life.

Now that he's removed the active alcoholism from our lives, I feel I can breathe. Maybe, just maybe, I can heal from the As. I couldn't have otherwise. Sobriety is a condition for R.

FYI, there are many people who go to both Al-Anon and AA. As in, they are alcoholics who also have a family member who is an alcoholic. It is quite typical. If you feel your drinking is out of control, you might consider going to AA yourself. You may not be an alcoholic, I don't know, but it is worth contemplating. As someone mentioned, there are open meetings (anyone can go, even non-alcoholics).

I'm rambling here and making this too much about my story, but I found hearing others' stories was helpful. I'm open to PMs, too.

Take care, Spidey.

kiki-

why not try attending ALANON meetings for yourself?

And be open and honest with your WH about what you are doing.

It could be a way to encourage him to try AA for himself.

Thank you everyone for your kind thoughts and wise insight. I have nothing really new to report, tonight H is going to his second alcohol class for the dui, and tomorrow officially starts his license revocation. today/tonight he wont be home hardly at all as he has to start his community service and then the classes. tomorrow i have to get up before the sun and drive him to work and rearrange my work day to pick him up. he was a little crabby about his life sucking righ now, i wasnt trying to sound unsympathetic, but im really not, he did this (and while i know that its the alcohol and that does concern me) and i cant get past the, well while i was at home falling apart you drank and then drove to go see OW so you want sympathy from me right now that things suck? no way.

anyway, he hasnt ever had to deal with this type of stuff before, maybe not being able to drive, having to do all of these hours, maybe he will see that it really isnt worth it? am i wishful thinking?

i have my IC appointment tomorrow, i am going to discuss al-anon meetings with her as well.

Thanks again everyone!

Oh the addictive behaviors are so hard to break. My husband was an every day drinker...he would start as soon as he woke up...and not beer either, but the hard stuff.

I mentioned previously that I did not know how bad it was until we were married. What I didn't mention was when the drinking started. Before we were married there was a time we were not officially together. During this time, I had a brief r with OM. I had been celibate for over a year prior to this r. My now h found out about it and it crushed him completely. I later found out he had been planning to propose to me. He had been very religious...after I got pregnant he got back into his religion. He couldn't be alone with me without a chaperone if we weren't married, but with having a child together and him always being around for her, he decided not to officially be with me to avoid the chaperone issue. I just didn't get it...very young at the time. I still remember seeing his pain when he found out. I ended the r with other man immediately and have not touches another man since. But the damage was done, he began drinking, stopped going to church, was depressed, risky behavior...and it was all because of me.

I didn't realize how bad it was. We did get married two years later. And yes, I was celibate that whole time. When he proposed, I was so happy, I thought he had finally forgiven me, but then realized he still struggled. He was very jealous. OM had been a former colleague, so anytime I had to travel for work or had a late day or a work party he would be anxious and drink even more. But my heart belonged to him. He just didn't get it.

I hated his drinking, but limited my response because I felt responsible for it. Then I would blow up. I wish I had thought to go to alanon myself.

But now I always regret that r with OM, and wonder how our m would have been if that hadn't happened. It breaks my heart.

We are now going back to church, he stopped drinking and drugs immediately after dday. He really has completely turned it around and is back to the man I fell in love with. But I am so hurt by his affair. We have been doing so good, but I triggered hard the other night after reading texts messages on his disconnected phone. I don't know why I did it...and then I said things to him, and for the past couple days he has been so sullen. He didn't deserve for me to say what I said, and at the time I knew I shouldn't have said those things, but it was like I had no control. I was hurting. And wanted him to know.

I am curious to know what constitute a functional alcoholic. My husband drinks rhum and coke on a regular basis. Probably a small bottle ( 1/2 quart) of coke with rhum a day or 2 days. He is highly functional, altought has very big mood swings. His mother was an alcoholic. My take is that he is addicted to it and his body is used to this buzz-off state. Please give me feedback on whether or not I should pursue some treatment.

Sissi-

Here's the definition of a high-functioning alcoholic:

A high-functioning alcoholic (HFA) is an alcoholic who is able to maintain his or her outside life, such as a job, home, family and friendships, all while drinking alcoholically. HFAs have the same disease as the stereotypical "skid row" alcoholic, but it manifests or progresses differently. Many HFAs are not viewed by society as being alcoholic, because they have succeeded and overachieved throughout their lifetimes. These achievements often lead to an increase in personal denial as well as denial from colleagues and loved ones. HFAs are less apt to feel that they need treatment for their alcoholism and often slide through the cracks of the healthcare system, both medically and psychologically, because they are often not diagnosed.

HFAs can exhibit different drinking patterns and warning signs at various phases of their drinking. Common warning signs include, but are not limited to:

- Experiencing a craving for more alcohol after having one drink, leading to a loss of control over alcohol intake

- Obsessing about alcohol and the next time they can drink

- Not being able to imagine their lives without alcohol

- Feeling shame and remorse from drunken behavior

- Having failed attempts to control drinking

- Surrounding themselves with others who drink heavily

- Compulsively finishing alcoholic drinks—even someone else's

- Being skilled at living a compartmentalized life in terms of separating their drinking lives from their professional/family lives

- Making excuses for their drinking or using alcohol as a reward for their hard work

- Thinking that drinking expensive alcohol or wine implies they are not alcoholic

- Hiding alcohol consumption by sneaking alcohol before a social event or drinking alone

- Drinking despite adverse consequences (either emotional or physical)

- Experiencing blackouts or memory lapses

I describe my FWH as a functional alcoholic because he always managed to hold on to his professional job and function at home in terms of doing yard work, fixing things, soccer coach for the kids etc.

But, his drinking affected our marriage.Early on-he would go out with drinking buddies after work , after soft ball games etc. It was more binge drinking and drinking to excess.

Later it was not binging. It was not as noticeable to others. But, it was daily drinking.Every day after work he would come home and pour a mixed drink and sit and watch sports. He continued to re fill the glass until he basically fell asleep or actually passed out in front of the TV.

He didn't want to go anywhere or do anything with me or the family. He was depressed, grouchy, and detached.

After d-day when he finally got sober and answered questions about his drinking he told me that he didn't want to go anywhere that he could not drink comfortably.

That he had a 'routine' and that meant he did not want to be too far away from the liquor cabinet.

When I read this definition of alcoholism-the thing that catches my eye is the compartmentalization.

My FWH always did that.

He kept his drinking buddies separate. He had his family life on the one hand and his drinking life on the other.

That compartmentalization came in handy when the MOW/co-worker became one of his work drinking buddies.The LTA became another compartment.

He also said that the drinking was a big part of the LTA.