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Horizen,

You sound like a logical reasonable man trying to deal with this in a reasonable way. (I did that too.) It won't work, you are not dealing with reason.

I agree with everyone else here; WW will not get off the fence until you push her off (took me 7 months to figure that out). I personally love the idea of buying her a suitcase and a ticket.

You also need to think about you and 180. Enjoy your life with or without WW, instead of waiting for WW to decide things for you. I guarantee she will not respect you for waiting for her.

(((horizon)))

My WH claimed that he and the OW had a "special" connection right after D day.

He had convinced himself of that so he could justify his A. Once she accepts responsibility for the A, that "special" connection will dissolve into thin air.

[This message edited by SusanR at 5:34 AM, September 23rd (Friday)]

Thanks for all the posts.

Yes I have an attorney that has drafted a dissolution of marriage. It was on hold, for two weeks as my wife stated she was confused and working with a therapist. Then I received the cell phone bill two days ago and can see her confusion allowed her to contact the OM, even on our anniversary.

The irony when I got home last night, she asked if she could go with me and the kids this weekend. WTF. Why go if your heart isn't there?

Also this morning, she came into the bedroom again (which I leave unlocked so the kids can access me at night) crawled into bed naked next to me. Packed me a lunch and walked up and kissed me goodbye for the day. WTF.

I did tell her she should follow her heart to Kentucky, we will be just fine.

We'll see where that goes. This morning I'm telling attorney full steam ahead on the dissolution.

(((horizen)))

Another layer to this, and perhaps the largest reason I've been rather slow to hit the eject button, is the impact on our three kids. In my mind, I wanted to be able to look at them, now and later in life...and know I did all that I could. Yes I'm disgusted by my wife's actions and don't even see how she can look at herself in the mirror.

Horizen,

We'll see where that goes. This morning I'm telling attorney full steam ahead on the dissolution.

I know that this sucks, but you have to keep reminding yourself that this is not necessarily the end to a possible R.

What it IS, actually, is the next logical step that you have to take to get yourself out of this soap opera.

If I didn't mention it in any of your other posts, the path from infidelity is a straight line:

INFIDELITY------------------------------------------------->DIVORCE

A lot can happen along this path, but you have to move in the direction away from infidelity. This is done by detaching, 180, and all the preparations for a divorce.

Your WW needs to know that she can stop this path---as you are willing to try to reconcile---but every moment that she doesn't commit to you and the marriage, the closer and closer you come to a point of no return.

She has to know that the door isn't open forever for her to return.

Because as you detach more and more, the chances that you want to R may diminish. This is what time and emotional distance can do to a person.

But no matter what, if you reach this point of no return, you will be better prepared---emotionally and financially---to live your life without her. You may find that there is someone who you could care for as much as you used to for your WW---and vice versa. But the one thing I know for sure, is that you don't deserve to feel like you are right now.

Stay the path. Let her know where you stand.

Let her know that her time is running out.

I'm sorry you're going through this. Divorce is always a difficult choice to make, with or with out children. I have two small children. I know how hard it is.

(((HUGS)))

So sorry for what you're going through. I went through three months of 'living with' WH's affair (he'd reluctantly agreed to stay until DD's exams were finished), followed by six of false R - and yes, at least it allowed me to hold my head up and tell my kids I'd done everything I could. But the eventual blowup and desertion was all the worse, and the horrible way he treated me (going out to 'walk the dog' at 10pm, coming in at 5am) during those first three months sank me into a depressive illness. The moment she goes will be the pits, and from that moment on you'll start climbing back and becoming yourself again. You won't have to live with fear and suspicion. She MAY decide Kentucky isn't as fabulous as she thought, and crawl back, but I suspect by then you'll have moved on. I started living once I stopped loving a man who loved someone else. He's still with her, incidentally, two years later, but then I've fallen in love with someone too - there is life after all of this. You DON'T deserve to be treated like this - kick her out! xxx

Don't be surprised if your actions turn out to be the foghorn that guides her out of her fantasy. It happens fairly often. What you do if this does happen is totally up to you, Bro. We are behind you either way.

It is nothing but honorable that you try to save the marriage, for yourself or for the kids. When it came down to it I was able to save mine, but only after she was convinced that, yes, I would leave her if she didn't change. She changed before I stopped caring whether she could.

Steer steady as she goes, my Man. There may be choices to make ahead but for now hold your course.

She changed before I stopped caring whether she could

.

This is such a good point imo. I have told my WH the same thing basically, that time is not on his side, and there will come a time when I no longer care if he does not step up fully now.

(((horizen))) it is no easy road, regardless of the action taken, but I agree that your WW is in need of a shove, hopefully the landing will help her come to her senses.

I am so sorry Horizen. I know that is a terribly difficult decision.

For what it is worth, I think you are doing the right thing.

When I found out that my husband was still searching OW2's name online, still looking for her (though NC was not broken), I was done. I wrote down her phone number and told him to call her. Told him to go. Period.

He changed a whole bunch after that. I had to literally walk him to the door and say goodbye for him to understand that he had to choose.

I am almost exactly 70 days away from D/Day as well. Like you, after I'd heard the confession I said I would stay and we would make this the best marriage ever. I was crushed though, and confused and I couldn't think straight I was so lost. I had to hold it all inside for 5 weeks. He followed the usual motions of sending a NC letter and giving me a timeline but he was still aching for her. I had begun the 180 and was feeling better about myself. Finally at the 5 week mark I told him to make a decision and he chose her. I asked him to move out immediately and I couldn't believe the relief once he was gone. Like many WS in earlier posts, he was only gone a week if that when he realized his mistake. I had moved on already - had a counsellor, a lawyer and had finally broken the news to friends and colleagues that have rallied around me. I'm now in a position in which....after doing everything I could to save the marriage and I was still rejected...he wants to get back together and I don't. I've found me - a person who can finally stand up for herself and I like her company. This didn't come easily, I've lost 20 to 30 pounds and my stomach still isn't right, but I'm not going back to that marriage. I'm still in limbo because his heart is now broken and I find it hard to just callously file for divorce when he's trying so hard. But, I have no desire to give up this independence.

Your salvation rests in the 180 whether you stay together or not. You must tell your head what's right , what you deserve and your heart will follow...maybe not right away....but it will.

Having said all that, you have children at home and I don't. My children are on their own now and that certainly colors your plan. But even together, you can save yourself by following the 180 advice.

Oh, and one other thing I wanted to mention. When I first found SI days after D/Day, I was traumatized by the posts that revealed years of living in this hell. I was determined to find my strength and get it over with and I found it with the help of the 180. I'm not in an ideal spot yet but I am out of that hell of ambivalence and pain.

All the very best as you navigate these painful waters.

My world is in OH and my heart is in KY…

Oh boohoo.

Horizen – one of the best ways of dealing with people that claim to have problems is by removing the problem. Fact is that when we cut to the chase then most “problems” are really only excuses that don’t hold water. Once the person hanging on to the excuses sees this then there really isn’t a problem anymore.

Like when she tells you that she wants to be with OM then simply tell her to go. He’s in KY is a problem? Why? She can go for a romantic weekend, they can go out and screw around like teenagers. They can meet half-way at a motel for all you care , that’s maybe a 2 hour drive for each of them. What’s the problem?

If she wants OM – she can have him. You and the marriage are not going to do ANYTHING to stop or prevent that. Make this perfectly clear to her. IF SHE WANTS TO MEET OM SHE CAN GO! If that’s what she wants she can make plans to relocate, change work or whatever she needs to get there. It’s TOTALLY UP TO HER.

Like a possible divorce. What is the problem? People divorce all the time. Sure you can threaten to take all. She can threaten that you won’t see the kids. Sure you think the kids will be seriously traumatized… Fact is there are well established processes for each and every step. Fact is neither one of you can screw the other one over (although divorce tends to make both parties feel screwed…). Fact is kids adapt, recover and move on from divorce probably faster and better than we do. So remove the excuses.

But you also make some other things clear to her:

She is totally 100% free to see OM. But not as your wife.

Sure neither option might be what you want or even sound remotely appealing but they sure as h@ll beat the option she is offering: sharing her with another man.

Once she stands in front of you and has NO OTHER reason to be there other than she wants to be there… that’s when the healing can start.

OK – so divorce takes time and there might be a period of time where she is technically your wife but while she has DECIDED to be in the affair and to maintain contact with OM then she is not spiritually your wife any more. She doesn’t become that again until she tells you in a clear and unequivocal way that she’s committed to the marriage.

So she says she’s torn. And you point out statistics… Wow. Please Horizen – as has been pointed out you can’t fight illogical acts with logic. Don’t bother trying to negotiate your marriage back. She has to come back on your conditions. It’s up to you that those conditions are beneficial for the marriage. There is no profit or benefit whatsoever in talking to her right now other than to make it clear that she has to commit to the option she chooses.

Being married is a lot like being pregnant; either you are or you aren’t. Having sex or even having active longings for sex with OM… that’s definitely “not married” in my dictionary. So don’t negotiate on basic factors of the marriage. If she can’t commit it’s a bit like claiming she’s not pregnant now – but now she isn’t – but now she is – but now she isn’t – but now she… WHAT IS IT? IS SHE MARRIED OR NOT?

OK – I can fully understand your need to think of your kids. But are you doing so by being this allowing to her addiction? And yes – infidelity can be an addiction. Way too often the WS get’s off from the drama, the attention and the mixed emotions of infidelity. This is precisely why infidelity relationships seldom last. Because once it’s only a relationship the fix wears off. So imagine you discovered your wife was mainlining heroin rather than having an affair. For the sake of your family, your kids and your marriage. In fact – for the sake of your WIFE – would you be content if she stopped mainlining and “only” snorted heroin? Would that be a step in the right direction?

Have a feeling that if she was doing drugs you would have shipped her off for rehab ASAP. Well – she’s in her addiction and the leeway you allow her is allowing her to maintain her fix each and every time she feels the need to strongly. You can’t move her to infidelity rehab per-se but YOU can move out of infidelity.

So Horizen – As strongly as I can suggest I recommend you move on. Leave her a rope so she can grab onto and you can pull her out of the fog. But don’t wait too long for her to grab it. At some point you and your family have to move on with or without her.

Horizen,

Unfurnately I can understand your situation perfectly... As you here, I received the best advice and warning "You can NOT change her... You can NOT nice-guy her back to M"... I also thought at first that the advice was not fitted for me and WW, that we were different.

I would have saved so many tears if I had listen to them since day 1... dont misunderstand me, I would still be in the place I am today (heading for D) but I would have suffered less...

My advice: Dont try to use logic on her. You telling her statistics... nice touch but she did not hear you. You will not convince her. I probably know you will try anyway, just remember what you read here and out it in the back of your mind and it will come in handy sooner rather than later.

She will come out of her fog eventually, but that will have nothing to do with you... maybe she will benefited by you using the 180, but do it for you, not to trick her back in to the M.

Brother, there is no logic, dont even try to look for it.

Keep posting and use the advice of the veterans here. They will help you through this shit-hole you are in.

In short, you are trying to talk sense into a person who think you make too much sense.

The irony when I got home last night, she asked if she could go with me and the kids this weekend. WTF. Why go if your heart isn't there?

And your answer was "No," correct?

She wants to go so that she can continue to manipulate you.

If the OM has a BW tell her ASAP. Then 180 and save yourself.

Don't

Even

Think

About

Changing

Her

I waffled during my H's affair. It backfired and prolonged the whole thing. I eventually tried to make him leave, but he wouldn't, he kept muddying the waters, implying that he was sort of committed to me and the kids. If I had to do it again I would have insisted he leave the house. If he had refused to leave I should have taken the kids and left with my pride still semi intact. Letting him stay and catching him in more and more lies was excrutiating for me. The kids had a mom who was a terrible mess during that period, it wasn't fair to them to live under those circumstances, with dad scheming behind our backs and finding fault with us, so that he could justify his double life.

If my WS had told me his heart is in KY, I would give him two choices; he could either go out the door or through the window.