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It's Official we went to court the other day and i am have now officially adopted OC!!! NO MORE OW DRAMA!!!! I am so happy now i just need to protect this innocent child from the nutbag for the rest of her life. Trust me this women is no good. Not just my opinion her life screams no good! Between her losing all her kids to the state, having multiple men, having no job and no place to live. You know what i don't even care! I don't have to deal with it anymore so very happy!!!!

That's wonderful news. Sounds like the situation has worked out well for you, the OC and your WH. Let's just hope the crazy gene isn't heredity.

You are an angel to take this situation on and I hope the rewards are many. Congratulations.

thanks disrespected----

Ido worry about the crazy gene but truth is im not sure if you can get crazy then that cumbucket.....just really sucks we are all here no one deserves to b put in this situation. noone

#1survivor, I am so happy for your family that things worked out as they did. The OC is very lucky to have you as a parent.

thank you BMC.

I am very lucky to have her. I am determined to remember everyday that i am one of the lucky few who got to get rid of OW and show her she could not win nor have my life....i am very grateful.

I am very happy for you. I don't know if you have seen my update, but I gave custody of the OC over to my H and the OW after they decided they wanted to be a "happy family". It was the hardest thing I had to do after 4 years of raising them as my own, but I really did not have a choice. I am so glad that the OC is permanently yours and that you never have to worry about what I just went thru.

Yes BMC i saw that. I addressed to my Husband every day that was my fear. I had no legal rights to her but yet my heart belonged to her and i did everything for her. I just could not imagine the pain you are feeling cause no matter what or how these children come into the world once you spend some time raising them it hurts to let them go. My heart breaks for you. I am just so glad that I don't have to worry about that anymore.

My fear now is in a few years when she is bored she will try to find us and cause drama or see the child. As much as i think i am free i know in the back of my head i will never be free of her. For some weird reason they believe they have a right to be in our lives. Not sure why but they do. Like i said before i have seen her posts on another board and wow she made us out to be crazy cruel people and everybody lapped it up. When in truth she was the pyshco....No matter what for the rest of my life these women will confuse me.

How do you ladies accept the OC? I'm having a VERY hard time with accepting him. We've never met him, he lives in a different province, and have never seen a picture. Is it wrong of me to not want him in our lives?

H & cOW go to court next week for child support and I was doing ok until now. Just knowing that we'll have to start paying for this "accident" for the next 25 years is killing me. This woman got pregnant on purpose in the hope that H would leave me for her, but that backfired!

A part of me wants to stay in the marriage, but a bigger part wants to leave. How do you get past this? The affair was one thing, but the child is something else.

@onyxns---I am not a frequent poster obviously but i read these ladies words all the time. I find my strength in them. I am 3 1/2 years post dday when i first found out about the affair and the OC i was so conflicted i wanted to leave one day and stay the next. It went on like that for close to a year. I know my defining moment that made me decide to stay was when my WH was out of the country on work and OW had me served with CS modification paperwork. Yes i said had me served. She claimed she didn't know how to find my husband (which is BS) so the judge allowed her to serve me. That moment i realized her main goal was to destroy my marriage and my life. Why? I will never know the answer to it but that is what she wanted. So that moment on i fought with my husband not against him. Then a year later we found out about the neglect and everything with the other child and i dont care who you are as a women you cant turn your back on a child in need. Up until that point we where no contact we meet the OC for the first time when she was 18 months old. Poor kid was basically a newborn cause of the neglect. So we fought for custody (not much of a fight with all the evidence we had) and won. It is a hard thing to do but i believe in these situations you have to do what is best for you so you can survive this and be a stronger better woman and mother. I am sorry you are here but please listen to these women they know what they are talking about like i said i am mainly a lurker and wow they have helped me more then they know. You will survive this in your own way i promise

(((onyxns)))

It's hard, we understand. We are NC so the OC is not in our lives, and it's because we have already been put thru the ringer, plus the cOW has used that child so much because of $, that honestly it's better for the child at this point. Later down the road is a bridge we will cross later.

As far as CS; it SUCKS hardcore (especially since we know the cOW uses it for herself and there is NOTHING we can do about it). I tell myself it's a monthly charitable donation, another bill...something other than CS for a child my fwh had NO business having. For me, it helps me cope.

I have a harder time with the financial part than the OC, probably because I have reached the "acceptance" stage of acknowledging the OC is my fwh's biological child. I have a detachment because I was worrying too much about the OC, and it was making me go crazy. I do feel bad that the OC has a nutjob for a parent but in this state the mother gets all the rights, custody, etc.

I can say that time heals. Maybe not fully, but it does sting less. I too have never seen a picture of the OC (not at that stage of my healing yet), I have seen a partial pix of the cOW (ew).

We choose to focus on 1 thing at a time, and right now the focus is on our family. It's different for other people, and you have to decide what works for you and your family. Every situation is unique, and in ours this is the right decision right now.

(((#1survivor))) Congrats! I had told my fwh if there was a way we could get 100% custody of the OC I would be totally down for it, be rid of the cOW. She has sabotaged C so bad that we can't really ever trust her for even visitations, nevermind joint physical. But so glad that you were able to adopt and save this OC! At least this one has a chance.

Hello all

Quick summary:

Bn together 10 yrs, 3 kids under 7. Im 20wks preggers now with no4. Partner had unbeknownst to me been visiting hookers since 2008-I caught him with a19yo scag head hooker April fools day 2010. He left us for a year to wander greener pastures - fell in love with 19yo scsg slut hooker amongst others and had 30+ women in total throughout this time. The scag head wad one of the constant ones although they were on n off throughout.

Heccame home to R in march 2011.

My partner n I have supposedly bn reconcilling these last 9 mths. He has made some positive changes but i feel still has a way to go. All this time my gut has been telling me "there's more". He knows this. Last wk I blew my top n said that this feeliing that there's more is killing R he has said that there were things- he was so ashamed of that he didn't want to say but understood I needed to know to move forward- complete honesty and info and transparency.

He spent last week writing out a 4 page "memoir" about the things he hadn't told me about.

He told me of women that he did have sex with which he'd originally told me he hadn't (our neighbour being one of them) and it

Turns out he did have unprotected sex with said scag head hooker who he was in love with amongst others .

He said he had u/p sex with her *once* back in aug/sep of 2010. He didnt end it with her till feb march of 2011. He ended it via phone infront of me & snapped his sim card n changed his number after that. He then wrote her a letter leaving the door open for her- I confronted he admitted then we sent a NC letter together saying it was over for good.

A couple weeks later a letter came to his flat which may have been from her- he burned it n never opened it. My dilemma is this: I don't really believe that he has u/p sex with her the once although he *swears* this is the truth. I'm worried incase he was indeed having u/p sex with her till the end and the letter that came to the flat could have been her making contact saying she was pregnant. Im very paranoid about this - I feel I need to get to the bottom of it but not sure how we/ I can find out without somehow getting in contact with her which of course I don't want either.

Because he has this "ignore it and hope it goes away" attitude and is conflict avoidant I'm wondering if there's more to this than meets the eye- is it just my paranoia, panic or is it my gut screaming at me.

I'd like to hear from anyone who may have been in a similar sitch - what did you do?. And also how did you deal with all the months of TT and get through it?.

Part of me wants to kick him out beacuse I feel a mug and like I'm letting him keep getting away with more bolloks behaviour that is disrespectful to me, shows no respect, and is just more of the same infidel mindset n behaviour. OTOH Im feeling bad because if I did ask him to leave it upsets the kids and the whole sitch at home, my daughters very excited about baby- I don't want to put the kids through more upheaval they've been through enough already, I want to keep things calm and settled for them.

Part of me is aware enough to know that TT is par for the course and to be *expected* really given all the Infidelity patterns.

After reading the book how to help your spouse heal from your affair a bit stands out to me regarding the message I'm sending that it's ok to keep lying and that I'll take it, beacuse that is what I'm effectively doing if it's business as usual n we keep Ring regarding this new TT. I'm not sure the best way to handle it.

Last night after I read it I wad very quiet, went to bed. He came in and said do you want a hug, shall I sleep on the couch?. Do you want space?. He apologised for everything he's done n said it wassuch a selfish time in his life. (cheers for that). He didn't reach out to hug me at all just left 2 ft between us, after about 20 mins he started snoring so I asked him to bring the 2 other children in to bed with me that had fallsn asslep watching a movie after having a late night. He slept in the lounge on the sofa n half grumpily said "see u in the morning then".

Get up this morning and he's very apologetic, blah blah, knows he's been selfish, knows he's reset the clock etc, been a little affectionate. I told him his actions last night shows me his feelings for me as hes so robotic. I began triggering last night -back to the night i csught him with hooker slut in his car- he was rubbing her leg n comforting n protecing her so much whilst calling me names n driving off almost running me over in yhe process. He didnt ask her if she wanted a hug. I feel beacuse he's not automatically *wanting* to do that with me it may be because he just dosnt have those empathetic feelings for me n just can't be arsed. I told him he's like a robot with me n his questions were about him n his selfishness wanting to know where he stood. If he really felt as bad as he stated then shy not just reach out?. Hope I'm making sense here, my minds all over the place today.

How can I respond strongly with self respect to all this, I feel I'm in a corner although knowing I'm not?. Judt need some advice please. Hope I'm making myself clear.

I hate this fucking crap. Just want some rest n peace I hate the drama.

If there's any other sentences underneath this please disregard them, I'm out sitting in my van typing this on my phone.

Love and light

Mountainmomma

X

Hope to hear from you soon

onyxns - I have never posted here, but I did want to comment. Children are innocent in all of this drama. Children need to know they are loved by both parents. For me, if I can't accept the OC, then I would have to D. I am divorcing BTW. STBX filed. But if he wanted to return, I would not R because I would be unable to trust his continued contact with the OW because of the OC. I would not respect him if he wasn't a loving, participating parent in OC's life.

I am able to encourage and support my sons' relationship with their half-sibling (now praying that the baby is STBXs since my children have bonded with her). I love my sons. And they love their new sister.

I never think children should suffer because adults are selfish or dysfunctional. My marriage is not more important than the OC. I know what I can and cannot handle. So D is my choice too. If I ever did consider R, I would have to be at an emotional place where I could include the OC in our lives. Not there. Can't see that ever being the case.

My marriage is not more important than the OC.

Mine is.

That sounds selfish, but it is true. My own COM having her parents together, in a stable, loving environment, is more important to me than OC will ever be.

I did not feel that way before DD, or when I had under 18 stepDs (my stepDs were put before myself, our M, EVERYTHING- they were here before me).

It is the BS's choice and decision whether or not they can accept OC in their life. Period. No one else can make that decision for you, our WS's and their APs made enough choices for us, this burden is ours to bare.

It is the WS's decision whether or not they can live with the BS's decision.

I told my FWH I could accept OC in our life. In fact, there is an empty place in my heart where she is not. I have seen her grow via Facebook, and feel like we have missed out on her life (but not OW's complete hatred of me and our DD- that would be intolerable). It was my FWS who has not come to terms with the fact that a woman purposely had his child without his consent. He feels he has nothing but resentment towards OC's conception, and cannot bond with OC. Furthermore, he would be putting myself and our own DD at risk (read my profile to see the emotional turmoil OW has put me thru- grab a seat, it's a novel).

This, above all threads/boards/real life situations on this forum, is not a place to judge each other for our choices. I've been judged for staying, for not "making" my FWS have visitation, etc. This is the one place I know I can go and not be judged for our decisions regarding this matter.

(now praying that the baby is STBXs since my children have bonded with her)

This is why I have seen it recommended time and time again on this board that COM NOT be introduced to OC until after paternity/visitation is established.

What will you do if it is not his? What will you do if it is, OW gets a "wild hair" and decides to take off? This last scenario happened to a longtime member of this board. She had 5 boys, OC was the girls she always longed for. FWS and BS's family had OC for months on end, she was a COM to them- then OW showed up, took OC, and they never saw her again. Last I heard, they still hadn't tracked her down. The whole family was devastated beyond repair.

I never think children should suffer because adults are selfish or dysfunctional.

All of the OCs in these cases will most likely suffer to some degree because of their circumstance. If this child is not your FWH's, and your COM do not see OC again, it will be your children suffering.

[This message edited by Want2help at 9:32 PM, January 7th (Saturday)]

I have to say I totally agree. My marriage and my children are more important. Its my job as their mother to put them first which means the OC comes in second.

I feel sorry for her being born to two very broken individuals but I have to put my kids first.

I a perfect world the OW would be mature enough to allow the OC in our lives and accept the fact that the child would be around me. It took me years to get to a place where I felt strong enough to want the OC in our lives.

Hands down, the OC are dealt a bad hand in life but the fault lies with the OW and the WH.

It is a painful and difficult situation. No one wins really.

Want2Help - I have many earlier threads discussing my legal battles, including the gag order and restraining order in place preventing my sons from too much information and contact too soon. One thread is about the huge error the court appointed counselor made in notifying my sons of the OC before paternity was established. Every negative scenario you have mentioned was also stated by me in the thread, to the counselor and to the judge. It was a terrible error. I went through hell in court trying to prevent exactly this situation. The scenarios you mention could occur. They could also occur even if the OC is my STBXs. The OW could leave with the child at any time. Just like any half sibling in a remarriage.

Renee - OW may have their own agenda, refuse OC contact with the WH, etc. What I was speaking of was my choice as a BS with a WH and an OC. My choice is the only one I have control over. The A was a devastating shock. It destroyed the framework of everything I believed in. In all of it, there was drama, dysfunction, and selfishness

from my WH and the OW. Probably like most of us have experienced.

In trying to survive, I had to find a greater peace in myself and a greater love. I can't go down the dysfunctional, Jerry Springer road of STBX and OW, even if it means loss, change, and fear. I want to live with integrity, even if I hate it sometimes. Even if I have to suffer to do the right thing.

Not because I am a martyr, but because I have to in order to transcend this trauma and live a better life.

So, my choice is to R and accept the OC. Or to D and welcome the OC as the sibling to my children. It sucks. It hurts. It's hard. But I believe it is the right thing to do. The OC did nothing wrong and should not feel shame or isolation or rejection by a parent. To me, this is what creates the type of damaged souls that may cheat and abandon their families one day. There is a bigger picture here. Believe me, I understand. I threw up after hanging OC's stocking next to my children's stocking this christmas because my sons wanted me too.

It was difficult, but seeing their smiles and how well they have adjusted, I feel this is right for my family.

I do feel strongly about protecting children. All children. First and foremost. I'm so sorry if my opinion makes others feel judged. It is such a painful situation. I do wish the deepest healing for all of us.

[This message edited by LisaBrandNew at 11:04 PM, January 7th (Saturday)]

I never think children should suffer because adults are selfish or dysfunctional.

That used to make me feel so bad to the point of getting physically ill and so depressed that I could not function. As an educator, I always put children first. I see first hand what happens to children, especially boys, grow up without their fathers in their lives. Most are in and out of juvie, have children of their own already (I teach high school), or have dropped out.

Now having said that....

My marriage is not more important than the OC.

It is actually because of the above that my marriage IS more important than the OC. How is that so?! Because I know if there is C with the OC, the cOW will make ours (including the OC's) life a living hell, and if our marriage is not 115% mended and healed, I will be allowing my family to go thru hell and back to just break up anyway. Now we will have 3 children from broken homes.

I had to detach and focus on my mental health and the health of my family. I had to realize that I cannot put out multiple fires with 1 hose. I had to prioritize. I let myself get so down over feeling bad that my own family suffered because of the guilt and shame I felt. I had to realize that my marriage and my children had to come first. Same for my fwh. You can't save anyone else if you don't save yourself first.

Sadly, we can't even begin to have a relationship with the OC because the cOW is so unstable. In a sense, as awful as it may sound, we have "sacrificed" the OC for the sake of our family/COM. The OC would be put thru more hurt, hell, etc. because he has a mother who is manipulative, coniving, selfish, cold-hearted, and just pure evil and we know she would just use that poor child more than she already has. In our state, unless we have thousands of dollars, joint custody is futile. We have already lost so much, we cannot afford (finacially) to lose anything else.

So for us and our situation (because every situation is different), this is the right path and saves all from the insanity that could happen.

I feel bad for the OC. God knows I feel absolutely terrible he was conceived under false pretenses, that he was born to 2 selfish, dumbass parents, that he will not get to know his father until later down the road, that unless the OW cleans up her act, I will protect MY children and therefore the OC will have to wait to know his siblings. Her wrath will not extend to my children, because they are innocent as well. They will have to deal with the impact of all this just as the OC will. My hope is that with time she will seek professional mental help, but seeing as how she is most likely BPD, I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel.

I pass no judgment at anytime. For those who are able to have C, that is good. All children should know their families. For those who are NC for whatever reason, I understand that the rabbit hole can go WAY deeper than I know or can comprehend.

Either choice is a HARD choice. It's funny my good friend told me the other day that NC must be a relief. I told her C or NC has it's own brand of hell on earth.

(((us all)))

Wanted to add: I posted this not to have a disagreement; I feel an OC situation is so unique amongst different people that there really is not a fool-proof right or wrong way--rather for the lurkers and/or those who are NC or partially C. I know the insane hurt I felt when I heard others talking about mock scenarios of this happening, how heartless people are if they NC. Sometimes NC is the best and most "humane" thing that can be done for all parties involved.

[This message edited by IslandWahine at 1:03 AM, January 8th (Sunday)]

IslandWahine - Very important post about the complexities of the OC issue. The OW in my situation is also unstable. I can not imagine what reconciling a marriage would be like with an OC even under the best of circumstances, let alone with a unstable OW. I will never know since I am getting a divorce. I have to because I know I would not be able to resolve my feelings about protecting children first with the pain and chaos of healing from the A, trying to heal the marriage, protect the COM, honor the responsibilites to the OC while dealing with an unhinged OW. Each of us has to decide what is best for ourselves and our families. Every OC situation is different.

However, I do hear you taking so much responsibility for the decisions re: the OC, OW, your children, marriage, self and family. You are bearing the burden and guilt of extremely difficult choices. It doesn't seem right. The WHs need to bear this burden -for us and for the OC.

Our spouses brought a child into the world. They are responsible for protecting and caring for that child. If the OW is unstable, then that child will suffer, especially without a healthy parent to balance out some of the impact. That is the reason for MY choice. I am an educator also. There are many reasons that OC contact would be difficult, painful and stressful. That would be for WH to figure out, to protect his family, wife, children and to protect the OC.

Would he or you leave your children with a BPD relative? I grew up with a PD mother. My father left us when I was three. He could have intervened and prevented so much child neglect and abuse. I could have known that my father loved me and fought to protect me. It would have been tough. My mother would have been challenging to say the least. But he would have been my hero, what a parent should be. I am just giving an adult child's perspective because I believe there are so many variables to consider in making the OC contact decision. That decision will affect everyone's life. I believe the OC deserves the love and safety a good parent should provide.

I know there is so much pain here. Divorce seems the easy way out compared to the difficult choices so many have made here. My deepest respect to all of you. My opinion is just that. Not a judgment. I am a Parent Educator. I worked with troubled children and adolescents for over 10 years as a Clinical Social Worker. I have seen so many children suffer because of immature, selfish, damaged parents. Personal and professional experiences have shaped my feelings on this issue.

I can say that my fwh bears a huge amount of guilt and responsibility. Due to the NC its why he didn't make a huge fight over the CS (although the cOW wanted 3X the amount). At least the child has some financial contribution, although the cOW refuses to work and is still "poor" despite the amt of CS she gets.

Its not an easy decision. I have posted before that the state we live in is incredibly pro-custodial parent/mother. You can look it up anywhere, its one of the worst states to be a non-custodial parent. Cases with an out of wedlock child automatically give her sole custoday (physical and legal), although my fwh had expressed he at least wanted joint legal. Apparently he expressed too late! Without legal protection C is not going to happen right now. She gets a free lawyer. A retainer for a custody battle starts @ $5000. We have already spent $10;000, wiping out his and my savings. Our lawyer told us look @ spending $10,000 just for joint legal, with no guarantees. Financially we just cannot afford that now. sure one can say he should get a 2nd job, pull out all the stops, fight, etc, but this costs $, time, etc. And no guarantee that we won't be back where we started. We have 2 very young children and they have put thru the ringer with us (although they don't know the sitch, they just know mommy and daddy are very sad.).

The cOW in our sitch has also already lied that we have been hostile and threatening to her and the OC, and we are NC! She has said this 3X now. She has said this twice in court and we even got a letter from her lawyer! We cannot risk our careers on false allegations. A family member a few years ago went thru something similar; not an OC sitch, but they had custody of their child. The ex convinced the child to lie about abuse (physical and sexual). We know this family member too well, and know that it was totally false. It went to court, he lost custody, was found not guilty, but it took years to fix his reputation, his court costs went to almost $100,000, he lost his current wife and family, and he now has a very strained relationship with the adult child, who basically admitted she was coerced into telling a lie. I saw what happened to his family, his life. My fwh too because its his family member. And I know for fact that its that ish the cOW in our sitch is capable of. It only takes 1 time...

She has already paraded this poor OC around the courts, lying, trying to get more $, etc. There's no official BPD diagnosis, but she's pretty classic.

So we made the decision together for NC. Doesn't mean its forever; perhaps when the OC is older and can speak for himself and we have total minimal contact with OW, a relationship can form. I tell my story with the hope that if someone else reads this, they can get info they may need. Do I worry about my fwh leaving me if I had certain diagnoses? Well he cheated on me while I was severely depressed. He has since sought counseling and is working thru his demons. The only condition I made for R was IC and MC. I initially was for C vs. NC. Once we saw her true colors, however, I agreed with him on NC. Does the OC deserve more? Many children deserve more in this world. I cannot make my fwh change his mind on what he feels is best for us, especially when considering the circumstances I agree with him. I accept the OC as his biological child as does he.

My father was also not in my life mostly due to untreated PTSD (vietnam war). When he was, it was a huge battle between him and my mom with my sister and I in the middle. I am actually thankful looking back that he wasn't in my life. That was sheer chaos and now as an adult, we have a wonderful relationship. Sometimes NC really does mean no new hurt for all involved. I had a great stepfather who took care of us (until recently).

At best we would only ever get joint, or visitation. If the cOW was at least semi-reasonable, we would have at least some visitation, we talked about that while she was pg.

I am still mad at my fwh. I know how awesome of a father he is to our COM and it does hurt and pain me that the OC is missing out. At best that child would only get 50% of his time vs 100% like my COM. My hope is that the cOW meets someone and that man loves the OC and he at least has a chance, seems like the best sitch for all involved.

I wish us all well in our jouneys, and peace with our decisions. All of sitatuions are so different and I hope that we all make the decisions that are good for our families (C, NC, etc.)

Forgot (((everyone)))! I want everyone to know they will always find support here no matter what their situations are. D, R, S, not sure what to do...all are very hard decisions to make because they all impact us and our families in various ways.

[This message edited by IslandWahine at 9:34 AM, January 8th (Sunday)]

Forgot to add 1 more thing that my fwh reminded me! The decision to NC was also discussed with several professionals--2 lawyers, 3 therapists, a social worker, and a dear friend of mine who is a school adjustment counselor. All of them agreed and supported our decision based on our situation.

Make as informed of a decision as you can. And remember that decisions can be changed based on the outcome of the situation. If I have learned anything throughout all this, is that it is unpredictable! You think things will go one way and then they turn/change on a dime! Think and plan on the shorter scale vs. the larger whenever the situation allows it. I know what was driving me nuts was telling my children about this (we plan on telling them when the are much older than they are now, both are under 5). I have sense let that go, knowing that we will tell them eventually, but didn't set a date/time/age. Deal with only what you can control, take things 1 step at a time.

Ok (((everyone)))! I hope everyone has a good week.

IW - You are a thoughtful and caring person. There is no doubt about that. You are doing the best you can in an extremely difficult situation.

All situations are different. I too wish everyone here peace on this journey.