SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My WH hates FB. He had a FB account for all of 11 days which is how I started putting 2 and 2 together. WH and OW had opened the account with a picture she took of him

The technology that I absolutely hated was cell phones which enabled them to continually communicate all day long.

I understand now that they would have found a way no matter what

While facebook does make it easier, it is the WS character that caused the affair. We have become a society of poor bounderies. Even before my FWH cheated, I stated that we are a society of "I'm just not happy". If people would realize that we are never guaranteed happiness, just life. You have to take the good, with the bad and realize that sometimes life is just a straight road. And that straight road looking back can be some of the best times of your life.

Facebook is definetly a cheating tool. I have been in your situation my friend. She was talking to "a friend." Unfortunalty, I recently caught her in a full blown affair while using a Gmail account. So facebook or email its all the same. Hang in there buddy. That initial discovery is numbing. I guess I still have a little revenge to work on because I would like her to feel that just once. I would never have thought about cheating

Oh my god...someone mentioned marathon texting...that made me laugh so hard. I mean its not funny....but it is. My husband tripled our cell phone bill with texts and pix messages to his "friend". Honestly i never knew he could write so much. The guy would never even write out a grocery list. Texting has turned a near illiterate into a word wizard.

SegRat, I have been checking, and see that you have not been back. Don't be discouraged by the seemingly minimal advice so far. We can help more with more details, but the first stages are so awful, and almost universal, that we have to make sure we get you through them healthy enough to be able to deal with all the other crap that is coming. We have a lot of people here who are familiar with all the bizarre crap that is either happening, or about to happen.

Hope to hear more from you.

So a lot has happened since my last post. Mentally I am all over the place. Hell I jumped out of a moving vehicle when she told me she didn't think she could switch to a different position at work to get away from this guy. Even though that was one of the first things she said she would. Yeah, I lost my mind for a moment and now will have some visual scars to go with the emotional scars. By the way, I am not someone who would do something like this. It felt like my heart exploded when she told me and it was just reaction to get out of the car not even realizing what I was doing.

So after pulling teeth she finally will say there were some inappropriate texts. She claims the were just joking. Last night she showed me a two page list of everything I have done wrong for the last 6 years. I will admitt everything I have done. I have pushed aside, I have ignored her feelings. She asked to go to counseling, I told her I didn't believe in it. Hell when she asked, I didn't even really think about why she was asking, things didn't seem like they were that bad to me. So yes I was a bad husband. But it feels like she is trying to turn this all around on me. I do understand I wasn't there for her, her best friend, I get that. I was dumb and blind. But I never would have crossed the line. She is the person I want to spend the rest of my life with. I want to keep my family together. I have times where I feel like, go ahead, keep working with him, keep being friends with him, just come back to me. I know I am going to go through all the ups and downs, the anger, the hurt, the resentment towards myself for not being a better husband. I hope so much that we can fix this, but knowing she will never have my trust again. She will never get that back. How do I move forward with her if we both choose, never having that trust. I could give her everything she wants, but in the back of my mind, is it still going to be enough? Did she ever truly love me? She says she still does, but I don't think I see it. In fact when I look at her, the anger she has towards me, I feel like she looks at me as if I'm the one who cheated.

Your WW is rugsweeping. Although you may have had issues within your marriage it did not give her the right to betray you. My H tried that crap in the beginning as well.

I want to warn you, their relationship may not be over. Usually it goes underground after the initial D-day. She has to prove to you that she is sincere and honest about everything. They almost never tell the whole truth at first. That 'fog' can be very strong. You need to be strong and take care of yourself. If she isn't willing to be an open book and work with you to repair the damage, it's going to be a long, bumpy ride. Again, when an affair of any kind is first discovered, damage control by the cheater starts. A marriage can survive infidelity but its hard work. I wish you much luck my friend.

SegRat,

Your wife is blame shifting. A common hand played by the weak minded. She apparently doesn't have enough self-esteem to be able to handle the guilt of having committed to doing something to you that she would never, ever want done to her.

Make sure you reconcile this following truth with yourself before you proceed: Her having an affair has NOTHING to do with you, nor does it have anything to do with your marriage. Period.

This is true no matter how good or bad of a husband you may or may not have been nor how good or bad of a wife she may or may not have been. You may also get the "I was looking for something that was lacking in our marriage.". Also complete bullshit. Rest assured she was looking for something she was lacking WITHIN HERSELF.

When there are problems in a marriage/relationship there three, exactly three ways to deal with them:

1) Do nothing and live with it as it is - probably unhappy and unsatisfied.

2) Work on it. Work VERY hard on it with understanding, compassion, honesty, and persistence, and most likely coming out in a stronger, smarter, and more loving marriage.

3) Separate/divorce.

That's it. Having an affair simply has nothing to do with dealing with marital/relationship problems nor is it as a result of marriage/relationship problems.

Marriage/relationship problems, though, are a wonderful EXCUSE for the weak mind and low self-esteemed to artificially and temporarily get a euphoric high from a "forbidden fruit" thrill and getting the external validation that they are unable to get from within.

Your wayward wife will now vilify and demonize you because this will, in her skewed moral view, give her "justification" for acting like a piece of shit. She will flood you with lies because it will be easier to lie than attempt to process the guilt of doing something she knows very well would have devastated her world if it was she who was betrayed by the person she puts trust in the most.

I don't know if you have children, but if you do then I would suggest from this point on acting in the best interests of ONLY yourself and your children. I cannot stress this enough. Make sure YOU and your CHILDREN are ok and operate with that in mind only. Detach from her, see how she reacts and then assess what you want to do from there.

Couldn't agree more. I was completely blindsided with it. One time WH left his FB account open and I saw that he had added his ex-girlfriend to his page. I asked him about it and he told me not to worry, that she was just a friend now, she was married, had two children, etc. I confirmed it, and I forgot about it. A year later they hook up in our town, he gets her pregnant and they now have a son. And he has the nerve to use his son's picture as his profile picture, and he's barely one month old! FB is the tool WH is using to beat me up over and over...

So you just found out, and she already has a two page list of things you did wrong over the past 6 years ready to justify her A?

This does not look good. There are a couple of things that could describe this, one is very difficult to save a marriage from, the other is a fair bit easier. What you have to do is identify what type of delusional thinking she is using to justify the affair, and that is really all you are getting from her is an explanation of the kind of delusional thinking she is engaged in. Any relationship to to the reality of the affair is purely coincidental.

I will have some more for you after work, some questions, and depending on the answers, some explanations, and some advice. I don't have my reference material with me at work.

segrat

"So after pulling teeth she finally will say there were some inappropriate texts. She claims the were just joking. Last night she showed me a two page list of everything I have done wrong for the last 6 years. I will admitt everything I have done. I have pushed aside, I have ignored her feelings. She asked to go to counseling, I told her I didn't believe in it. Hell when she asked, I didn't even really think about why she was asking, things didn't seem like they were that bad to me. So yes I was a bad husband. But it feels like she is trying to turn this all around on me."

I'm literally going through the same now. It's rough, hang in there for now.

So after pulling teeth she finally will say there were some inappropriate texts. She claims the were just joking.

I kinda skipped over this in comparison to the two page letter. Seems she is only willing to admit to what you have absolute proof of, and even then wants to minimize it. Some of your other descriptions lead me to question if she has really only known this guy for 18 days, and if this is her first time around with inappropriate stuff.

It is amazing how many things wrong with a marriage a person can find once they start to have an A.

(((Segrat)))

Hang in there but be prepared because there may be lots more to come before this is through.

My WS rugswept and blameshifted with the best of them. In fact, I honestly think he could give lessons on both.

They were just "friends"....they were just "roleplaying"....this lasted for another 14 months. They were just friends because he needed someone to talk to and she listened. She took his pictures because she had the capability to do so with her cell........ummmmm I happen to be an amatuer photographer and have been since before our M 23 years earlier The only admissions I recieved was when I had absolute proof in my hands.

I must admit that I did not find SI near soon enough, however, I am warning you that you will have to wear really high boots because, at times, the BS may get really deep.

As promised, here are some questions.

Which of these two blocks best describes your WW. If neither, we can proceed from there with a few more questions, but these are the two alternates that best fit what you have told us so far.

Characteristics of the person who says that a bad marriage made me do it

• At one time was clingy and fairly passive in the marriage

• Does not want to take responsibility for his/her behavior

11

• Attaches self to others. Others become the guiding star

• May have bouts of sadness and dejection

• Deep down thinks of self as inadequate and weak Reluctant and seemingly incapable of expressing own desires wants, needs, ideas (doesn't know what they are)

• Can be very generous and has difficulty saying no

• May be naive or Polly Anna like

• More passive, does not like competition

• May be closely attached to parents

• May be overprotected by parents

• May typically express put-downs about self

• Complains. Whines. Things are never right or good enough

• Those who know him/her well will usually be exasperated and frustrated

or

Characteristics of the person who wants to get back at him/her

These characteristics apply mainly to the person who is revenge and not rage oriented.

• Usually is rather unpredictable and erratic in his behavior.

• Has a hard time making decisions.

• Is often impatient and irritable when things don’t go his way.

• Some of the resentment seems to “seep out” along the edges, maybe when you least expect it.

• Engages in teasing.

• Can be stubborn and unyielding.

• May often take oppositional view and pride himself on being contrary or taking an unpopular stance.

• Can have moments of impulsive behavior and be labeled high-strung or tightly wired.

• Has an underlying worldview that is pessimistic. Glass is half empty.

• Has a tendency to wine or complain.

• May have moments of sullenness and dejection.

• Women may respond very intensely during their menstrual cycle. Men may appear very moody at certain times of the month.

• Manipulates others with unpredictability and demandingness.

• Family of origin often marked by factions and sibling rivalry.

• Has difficulty with intimacy since his behavior patterns push people away.

Last night she showed me a two page list of everything I have done wrong for the last 6 years

And she was a saint during this time, right? 180 is your friend.

I have times where I feel like, go ahead, keep working with him, keep being friends with him, just come back to me

^^^This will get you nowhere. Make her accountable for her actions, don't take any bullshit. Do not beg....repeat, do not beg.

You get what you allow....do not allow her to rugsweep or blame you for her shitty decisions.

Aesir, she is absolutely number 1. Almost to the letter. Scary how close that is.

She has known him longer than 18 days. That has been how long they have been talking by phone or Facebook. They have been working together for awhile. I am not sure how long.

We went to our first marrige counseling tonight. I had some advise to not try to get my side out and talk to much. So she did most of the talking. She was cutting my off a lot. Everything she said was about how bad I have been and nothing but justification on why this happened. How she was unhappy and this just fell into place. She said he was giving her everything I wasn't. A couple of things she said my counselor looked kind of surprised about. Especially when she says she wants to fix this, yet she shows little remorse.

SegRat, my wife did almost the same thing with her first A. She actually joined FB to make the A easier. This almost certainly started at some point at work. My guess is that when she noticed she was attracted to someone else, instead of seeing this as normal, she felt a fair bit of guilt at first, and this kicked in the rationalization hamster running in it's wheel and not getting anywhere, and she finally settled on the idea that there must be something wrong with her marriage (and it certainly couldn't be her) so she started to pick apart you and the marriage to work herself up to the A. By the time she was actually active in the A, she had worked up so many things in her head that when you discovered it, all these awful things just started pouring out of her head.

Unfortunately, I didn't see your response until morning, and I am at work without all my books and notes and such. I will post more stuff later.

I think you have to spend some time thinking about what you really want and why. The type of WS described is very long and difficult to work with, but there are a few things you can do to help her change her thinking.

Begging, pleading, yelling, 2x4's etc. won't be productive. First, you have to look after yourself, and live and behave as though you are okay. Do not acknowledge any truth in her delusions. One of the favorite responses to a WS's complaints about the marriage is "I'm sorry you feel that way." She is allowed her own individual opinion, but she does not get to have her own individual set of facts. There are also messaging phrases that you can work into comments. These are not attacks, just subtle statements about where she is wrong that force her to realize some truth on her own, things like "It seems like you expect someone else to provide you with happiness."

I will have more for you this evening, I can't really remember all the information I should give you when I am in "at work" mode, and it has been a few years for me.

I can tell you that I and my marriage did manage to survive an A just like this, but then I stopped to soon on the continued work (because it was exhausting) and my WW had clueless crap friends that reinforced the A mindset, so just like an infection, it sprang up again somewhere else. If you can end this A and continue to work on the mindset, there is hope for your marriage, and if things do go badly, we can help you to survive that as well.

I went through this when I joined, and again as recently as October 2011, and I have to say that I have been happy for quite a while now.

Thank you.

Here are some observations on how things usually happen with this mindset. How it usually progresses, and wwhat you could normally expect to happen.

1. Expect that your spouse will have a very powerful attachment to the other person. The other person will consistently be on her mind. Your spouse will shift energy away from you, the children, the household and her career to her affair relationship. She will be focused, but not on you.

Your spouse will attempt to push you away by avoiding you, ignoring you, closing off communication or walking away.

2. The affair will most likely be a long-term affair. It will be very difficult for your spouse to walk away from the other person. He may try on a number of occasions but will continue to gravitate back to the other person. He will hold on tenaciously.

This is probably the first or only affair for your spouse. Your spouse is not interested in playing or fooling around but powerfully attaching to the other person. The other person is the savior!

3. Don’t believe that the affair was planned before hand because of a bad marriage. These affairs usually just happen. They usually happen with someone in close proximity: co-worker, neighbor, friend (frequently of friends with whom you socialize), etc.

The other person is usually the aggressor, your spouse lacking the confidence to seek out the affair. The rationale that it happened because of a lousy marriage comes after the affair is in bloom.

4. The more you try to persuade, convince or pursue, the more strongly he will attach to the other person. He will perceive your efforts as weakness and will want to attach more intently to the other person whom he (at perhaps an unconscious level) deems to be the powerful and loving answer-to-all.

5. Efforts to use moral or religious arguments to call a halt to the affair will be strongly resisted. Your spouse is not guided by rightness or wrongness. These standards have not been internalized and do not carry much weight, especially when it comes to the important chunks of her life. The actions and thoughts of your spouse primarily originate from her need to attach to another person. Any behavior or concept that serves the purpose of maintaining the attachment will be valued. Others are discarded.

6. Expect you will spend a significant amount of time and emotional energy in the next 2 to 4 years (especially if there are children) attempting to resolve the relationship.

Understanding what motivates your spouse, and what they could be expected to do next gives you a tactical advantage.

You probably already have experience with your wife behaving this way, just from a different perspective:

Most likely, a very similar dynamic was at play in the beginning of your relationship with your spouse. She leaned on you, perhaps clutched tightly.

You carried the strength, the lead. She adored and worshiped you and guided her life by your every action.

As the relationship developed, she began to perceive your strength as stifling control. Her negative behavior became more and more pronounced.

[This message edited by aesir at 11:47 AM, August 18th (Saturday)]