SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

^^^ wow...that one hits home for me.^^^^

SegRat, that is some powerfully true stuff right there!

I hate cell phones now. I was never particular to them in the first place, but I absolutely hate the idea of them now.

It's a double edged sword that technology has created when it comes to infidelity. On one hand it's much easier to get away with cheating, yet on the other it's also easier to document and get caught.

My wife turned her phone alert off during her affair, which I should have recognized as a giant red flag but in the effort of "showing I trust her" I didn't pry. The first day and a half of texting there was 1000 or so texts between them. Then another couple thousand in the weeks until I caught them. She also had some sort of weird sexual attention seeking shit going on with another guy that amounted to nearly 900 something texts in that same time frame. Not counting all of the texts to her sister, "friends" at work and of course myself, which was perpetually attached to her phone at all times.

I even told her, in the months since D-Day only recently has she matched the amount of texts she sent to the OM in a matter of a few weeks with how many I've gotten since then. And she's been texting me a ridiculous amount (not that I mind).

I wondered how she did it. But looking back: lots of "dog walking", lots of bathroom breaks and trips to the kitchen, commuting to and from work, even not sleeping.

The affair actually started with him creeping on her Facebook and getting her personal email that we didn't realize was displayed as public.

She tells me who it is and what they say when she gets a text now if I ask, and I always ask. But any time I see that phone in her hand I feel the anger build up and... I just hate that thing.

I just bumped the thread Great Posts For Newbies To Read, there is a section in the second post about 10 questions to ask yourself. Those 10 questions are not the definitive list however. I once read a management book called "The Question Behind The Question", and in all 10 of these samples, the question behind the question is the same. You have plenty of time to answer this big question, but it is something you can work on in the background for yourself while you deal with the current issue, and the ultimate answer in this particular case does not change how you should react to your wife and her behaviour now.

Make a list of all of the negatives you can think of about divorce, and how you think you could handle them, be realistic, and develop some sort of a plan for them, and how it would impact your life. Now look at this potential impact. The question behind all these other questions is: Are you working to save your marriage, or to avoid the consequences of divorce.

I once had a great revelation watching Emo Phillips (I always found him annoying, sort of like a Gaelic Gilbert Godfried). He was doing a show on cable, talking about his ex wife, and he said "Being divorced sucks. I would much rather be widowed." I spit out my drink and laughed like hell, and a light bulb went on for me.

The good news for you, is that based on this type of affair, despite how difficult it is, your WW does not hate you. She doesn't even dislike you. She suffers from ignorance, fear, a deep sense of inadequacy, and a desire for someone else to save her from her own failings.

Instead of a hard to decipher block quote of psychological terms, terms coined by the author for the purpose of a book, and a long list of examples with confusing gender pronouns, I am going to try to put together some explanation of the "instructions" for how to resolve this. The instructions for how to save your marriage are exactly the same as the instructions for how to have a smooth, clean, amicable divorce where you can deal with any remaining issues that require you to cooperate. This means that you are never wasting time trying one thing if life goes the other direction. One small blessing you have compared to most situations here. Perhaps it is compensation for facing one of the most challenging, and confusing sets of WS behaviour possible.

Be back later with this advice.

Thank aesir.

She told me on Friday that this guy tried to talk to her at work. She said that she told him that they can not talk if she is to fix her marrige. So I have some hope of hanging on here.

Looking forward to more imput.

Facebook is how soontobedivorcedOW found my WH after hearing from a mutual friend that we were living not too far from her (a short flight). They had clean and open communication on Facebook. Now I can see innuendo in some of the emails but only with full knowledge of the EA/PA. After things started heating up, she created a private email for him to use ot contact her because he didn't feel comfortable with FB or his work or personal emails. It really got nasty when I set up my old blackberry for him to use- once they figured out blackberry messenger, they were really in the sexting business.

But technology brought them down too. Her sext to his phone- I was talking to his sister on Christmas night on his phone and it did that new message dance, and she wished him a special graphic Christmas wish. Hate her. Hate him.

She told me on Friday that this guy tried to talk to her at work. She said that she told him that they can not talk if she is to fix her marrige. So I have some hope of hanging on here.

WOW, this is huge for this type. You have no idea how big this is if she is telling the truth. Perhaps you caught it early enough. When my wife had specific instructions from her priest and therapist for NC with OM, and that she should not be meeting alone with any men at all, and only interacting in groups, she set up a support network of supportive sluts and arranged for group things with OM there, just to keep contact.

I will have to rethink the advice if she is telling the truth and you really did catch it fast enough.

If you read up in the healing library on the 180, that will help prepare you. You don't have to implement any of the actions and rules of the 180, just focus on the emotional state it is supposed to help you achieve. (The 180 is actually about detaching from a WS and preparing to live without them.)

At this point, your WW is looking for someone with the strength to show her the way through life that she truly does not understand. Any expressions of emotion like fear or sadness she will twist into weakness to devalue you. She feels like she needs someone to rescue her, she is probably afraid of being needed, so any sort of romantic gestures are counterproductive.

In summary:

Your WW is looking for someone to attach to and be lead through life that she really can't cope with on her own, but when she does find this, she soon finds the restrictions (that a normal life has) stifling, because she does not understand life. She thinks of these normal life restrictions as being imposed by her chosen "leader" rather than being just normal adult responsibilities and behaviour. It is much like raising a teenager, who wants their independance, but also wants some sort of structure to hold things together while they figure out life.

Romantic expressions - Seen as you being to weak to accept losing her, and trying to win her back.

Sadness - seen as weakness.

Anger - seen as weakness and fear.

Saying "I love you" - interpreted as "I need you", because she is really not being all that lovable, and she knows it. Again this is seen as weakness by her.

So the question becomes, how do you interact and relate to your wife so that her way of thinking will change? Or at least so that her way of thinking of you vs. AP will change?

I hope you have hobbies (out of the house is even better), and I hope you are a fan of the original Star Trek. (Okay, Star Trek won't save your marriage, but it makes it easier for me to describe some of the interaction techniques required.)

[This message edited by aesir at 12:27 PM, August 19th (Sunday)]

Facebook is what helped me find out about the A. I found hundreds of pictures in OW's album. My husband is not on facebook and I think he had no clue she was uploading pictures. One minute I am thanking facebook for opening this in front me and the other minute I wish I hadn't looked.

I also did more research and found more pictures on myspace and other photo sharing websites!

Okay, on to the advice, (and this advice is specific to your WW's personality and affair type, just so happens that is what I am most familiar with) you want to be able to send messages to your WW that she can not ignore, things that force her to think and realize the truth on her own. You also want to be able to project emotional strength to appear attractive.

This is the part where I hope you are a fan of the original Star Trek. (Although having a spaceship might be helpful with the whole Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus attitude, especially when she creates this huge pain in Uranus.)

Think about the calm way Spock conveys news, bad news, and really bad news. It is said simply as a matter of fact, no emotion, no argument, no explanation, it is what it is. "Captain, there is an 82% chance we will die a hideous death, and a 16.5% chance it will be a gruesome death", then he goes back to taking pictures. Nobody ever listens to Scotty when he screams "the ship, she canna take it anymore".

All of those facts, and fundamental truths that you want your wife to see, the ones you want to argue about, the things she is missing that drive you crazy. Don't get emotional about them, don't try to persuade, argue, anything like that. Just find an opportunity to state them as unassailable facts in a short sentence without emotion. Just an "it is what it is" kind of attitude. The book I am referencing calls this "charging neutral" and messaging, but I find the Mr. Spock analogy so much easier to explain than a whole chapter on what charging neutral means.

This seems almost counter intuitive, like you don't care and are almost pushing her into the affair, but there is a reason for doing this:

1. You will be able to point out something big, without making a big deal out of it. You make your point! And, it is heard!

You will learn how to confront and feel more and more comfortable (well…maybe that is a stretch, at least at first) with this skill.

2. You will be in control of you. This will feel great.

3. This skill gives you personal power. People are really attracted to someone who is able to charge neutral. (Can you think of someone who does this well?)

4. You defuse the reactivity of your spouse. You change the rules of communication. Your spouse will probably be confused, internally impressed and not be quite sure what to do with you.

5. You break the destructive pattern of communication that hits the brick wall and only results in misery.

Charge neutral is clean communication that’s about the truth being spoken without accusations, defensiveness or explanations that typically mire communication.

Now with this neutral delivery, you can state the truth to send your WW a message that bypasses a lot of her internal defence mechanisms, forcing her to acknowledge them on some level within herself. From the book again:

Here are some examples:

• It must be easy for you to lose yourself with her.

• You don’t seem to think much beyond your relationship with him. You must wonder how long that can continue.

• It is very normal to throw yourself at another person when you feel so empty.

• It is very easy to question a marriage when Prince Charming comes along.

• You can throw away an old pair of pants when you get a new one. But, the new one also becomes old.

• Your need to fill your emptiness is overriding your integrity.

• It seems to me that there is this great hole in you, and you think the other person will fill it.

• Do you ever wonder whether she is as great as you think she is?

• You seem to give all your energy to him and not have much left.

• Do you REALLY know what you are doing? Any doubts?

Remember, how you present the message is just as important as the message itself.

And an old favorite around here: It's not the waters fault that the broken glass can't be filled.

Remember to keep these messages short, speaking undeniable truth, no lectures, don't continue after you made your point (I know that is very hard to do). Let the silence following your statement carry the message home for you.

One really powerful message that cut through my STBXW's defences was based on the timing of her A with respect to family issues and her overall behaviour during her life. I said "You tend to try to replace people instead of coping with the loss, but there isn't anybody out there who can replace your mother." She started to get defensive, and as it sank in, she just stopped and looked like she had been shot.

Now I realize that this sounds like a really crappy way to go through life, but remeber, this is just for the direct interactions with your wife about relationship issues. I also said I hope you have some hobbies, preferabbly outside the house. I will get to that in a bit.

[This message edited by aesir at 1:05 PM, August 19th (Sunday)]

Yep, FB killed my M. I didnt find out until after its been going on for 18 months. EA/PA. Theyve been together 40-50 times.

Wife sent 10,121 texts in March 2012 - over 1/2 to him. Texting up to midnight each night while I was sleeping next to her.

They SUCK huh? Sociopathic behavior.

In my experience reading through the 1000's of posts on this site, the phrases "We are just friends" and "We are friends" depict two very different situations. The first one, in most cases, means there is more to it than just being friends with someone. The second one tends to reflect that there is a friendship and nothing more.

Amazing how the word "just" changes things...

Just a very small observation I wanted to contribute to this thread...

Hang in there SegRat, there's a ton of great people here with amazing advice....

On to the hobbies and such. It is time for you to enjoy your hobbies, or at least put on the appearance of enjoying them. You might even find that you really do have a good time now and then. Find reasons to take the kids out and have a good time. (I am assuming that you have kids based on the mother comment.)

First reason for this is that you really do need to find something away from all this A crap just to make your life worth living. Second, if you read back about her personality type, and what she is looking for, you will see that she interprets any signs of being upset and trying to save the marriage or win her back as weakness, and she is looking for someone to attach herself to that can guide her and fix her life. You are demonstrating that you can function, and have a good life despite what she has done. She put you on this rollercoaster, and it is only natural to assume that you want to puke. You want her to think that you stepped off and immediately started looking for popcorn and cotton candy. You want to demonstrate that you are in control of your life, capable of functioning and having a good life with or without her. It is one more subtle message, you are the kind of guy who will have a good life and enjoy it... too bad she doesn't want to come along.

As a warning to others reading, the advice I have given in this thread is not for everyone, it is for a specific type of WS and A. For others it will be counterproductive to trying to save your M.

And an old favorite around here: It's not the waters fault that the broken glass can't be filled

this is fantastic. i'm going to remind myself of this daily.

my WH found his OW on FB; she was an 'old friend'; aka old band whore when he was a 'rock star' in the 80s-90s. i was stunned repeatedly when i found out how many text messages went between them right under my nose, in my house, while he was sitting with me, during Christmas, etc.

it's just more nails in the proverbial coffin of trust.

Ok. She tells me she wants our marrige to work. She tells me that even if her and I don't work out, she would not be with this guy, which I doubt is true. Any type of advancement I try gets shrugged off. A hug a kiss. She doesn't/won't I initiate any of it. I have told her I need a little to feel that I am the man she wants to be with. I can tell her Iove her, and i want this to work and she will say the same. But her actions show otherwise.

I do think I caught this at the breaking point. My guess is probably less than a week away from crossing the line if it indeed didn't yet. And I believe it didn't cross that line.

Tonight it was more of the same stuff. She texted me at work how she wished she was home and wanted to be intimate, but when she got home it was the total opposite. I finally told her enough is enough. Told her if this is going to work it will, if not I will move on and will will have to protect the kids as much as possible.

It has taken me over 2 years to start to heal myself. My ww met her soulmate on Facebook. He friended her and it started there. They went to 3rd grade together and he said he had the biggest crush on her. Then I started seeing changes in her. Long nights on computer, calls in the middle of the night, her sudden need for privacy. Everything was my fault. I found out and the next year was a nightmare. She would be in and out of contact with him. 2 marriage counseling sessions. Oh they were just friends and she could never talk about him only what was wrong with me. It was a drug for her. Unfortunately they are still together.

Facebook is just a tool that makes it easier for cheaters to cheat. You need to blame them not Facebook, but I will tell you I closed my account :). I found I spent a lot of time Facebook stalking,

Hang in there time does heal the wounds and keep posting. Talking helps!

She tells me that even if her and I don't work out, she would not be with this guy, which I doubt is true.

Well, even if she tried, it would not last, she would find the exact same thing inside herself driving her towards another similar affair. Perhaps on some level she does realize that the OM is not really everything she wants, and is just providing a very small amount of what she thinks she needs.

I know my WW said the same thing, and she didn't end up with him, she actually very much dislikes him, but the damage to our marriage was done, and she never accepted her own responsibility, so she did it again with an even bigger loser.

Best to treat OM as irrelevant other than someone to maintain NC with, and focus your efforts on your WW and M. She really needs a change in perspective.

I have been reading the posts for the last hour. I am reeling from the things that I have learned in the last three weeks about my husband. I have realized that I do not even know who this man is. I discovered what he had done by pure accident. Strange how things are revealed. Found out that he joined several dating websites back in March. We had only been married two months. Then in April he set up an alternative Facebook page with a fake name and birthday. He used this page to communicate with several women, one of which he met in person. When I confronted her she said she did not know he was married. When I confronted him he denied it until he could no longer deny. We met with our priest and he cried, said he wanted his marriage. However, his actions are proving otherwise. Yesterday he was an hour late coming home from work. Then last night he said he needed to go to the garage to fix something on his truck but I noticed he took his phone with him. I truly do not understand this situation. We do not have any children together. He moved out. Why beg to come back only? He asked me last night are we going to have to talk about this everyday. He does not want to give me answers. He claims it was a moment of insanity. A moment of insanity this was not. It was calculated. It was thought out and he went to great lengths to hide what he had done from me. I really just do not think that we can get past this in our marriage. We are still supposed to be in the honeymoon stages. This is the most crazy and devastating thing I have ever endured.

VD2012, I hate cell phones too. I have one, but I don't care who picks it up or looks at it.

My WH spent lots of time in the bathroom and on dog walks..minus the dog! I remember anytime I would see him with that phone in his hand, I would get so mad. Thinking back to all the times we were out to dinner, or on trips and he was texting so called friends...to think he was texting other women just makes me so angry.

Generally, I hate it when your spouse texts anyone when you're out to dinner together. Rude. Texting the OW or OM is humiliating.

I could happily run WH's cell phone over with my car.

Only thing is he'd probably buy another one.

tfiallos lots of similarities to my situation. Only I have put up with this sort of crap for 14 years before learning the whole truth (or as much as I know to date). Good luck to you.

Facebook instigated the A for my wife.

Typical story, high school friend, crush that was never acted on...

My wife is VERY attractive. I told her she could get another facebook account. I did this because if she is going to cheat I want to know sooner rather than later.

Within 12 hours of opening up her second account, another old high school friend sent her his phone number and said if you ever need anything give me a call. She hasn't told me about it yet and doesn't know that I know.

Only time will tell what happens.

Facebook was the catalyst for my wife's A also. As soon as this guy joined FB, my wife had to friend him. When he didn't respond, she had to message him. I really just can't believe how desperate and pathetic my wife was. Within 12 hours of contacting this guy on FB, a guy she hadn't seen or spoken to in 20 years, within hours she was sexting him. Two days later the pictures started. It still makes me sick to think about, fortunately I only think about it 23 hours a day.

Who does that? This guy said nothing of note to my wife, nothing that swept her off her feet. She was just so desperate, she threw herself at him. Nobody I know can believe that all this happened in a matter of hours, but it did. I guess this guy has been living in my wife's brain for the past 20 years, so he didn't seem like a stranger to her. Of course, he never gave my wife a second thought. He got a whiff of the desperation and played her until she was sending him nude photos. I don't even know why he did it, surely he could have found much better stuff on the internet. I guess it was an ego stroke for him, this woman that he hadn't thought twice about has all these pent up feelings of lust for him and is willing to just throw herself at him, even while married.

The real kicker is that after my wife's online affair started, she actually posted something to FB about how great it was to reconnect with him! After I found out, it was all I could do not to reach out to all her friends who "liked" that update and tell them exactly what reconnecting meant. See if they still "like" sexting and sharing nude photos behind her family's back.