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Newest Member: ConcernedObserver

Just Found Out :
He won't stop talking to her

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sad1

 lime (original poster new member #37004) posted at 1:17 AM on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2012

September 17 was five years that we have been together. We never really did anything big for our anniversaries, but he didn't even acknowledge it. I felt like something was going on, so the next morning I checked his email and saw that he booked a hotel room for two in Oklahoma City for the next weekend, the weekend he told me he had to go to the Reserves.

I checked his phone and sure enough, they were planning to spend the weekend together. I was devastated. I walked into our bedroom and threw his phone at him and slammed the door. After I regained some composure we started talking about it. We have been talking about it ever since.

He told me he loves her.

He suffers from ptsd and his depression got really bad this summer and she understood him. He says it has only been serious for about six weeks, which I was able to verify with our phone records, their contact dramatically increased around that time.

I told him I need him to stop talking to her. He says he's trying. It's been two weeks and every time I push he shuts down. The googling I did said pushing for the end can have dramatic negative affects.

We immediately made an appointment for couple's therapy who required us to do an intake appointment that we couldn't do until the following Monday, and our first real appointment is tomorrow.

I HATE the whore. I can't sleep at night because I stay awake calling her every name I can think of. All I want to do is send her a hateful email or tag her in a very public facebook post so EVERYONE she knows will know what kind of a whore she really is.

I don't know where to go from here.

posts: 18   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2012
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Lyonesse ( member #32943) posted at 1:55 AM on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2012

Welcome, lime. I am really sorry you are going through this.

It’s good that you have an appointment for a counselor tomorrow.

The googling I did said pushing for the end can have dramatic negative affects.

I’m wondering which websites said that, and what was proposed as an alternative. Isn’t your lying awake every night consumed with hurt and hatred a negative effect? Or doesn’t that count?

Affairs are generally very poor coping mechanisms by people who don’t have good emotional skills. Are you supposed to enable that, at the cost of your own emotional health? Doesn’t sound like good advice to me.

He absolutely needs to stop talking to her. If he can’t do that, then he needs to realize he loses you. I’m sorry, I know you just want him to wake up and start making sense and realize that he is not truly in love. I hope your counselor is able to get the ball rolling on that. I think a lot of people here would tell you, though, that they had to draw a line in the sand and make it clear they would not stand for wayward excuses.

Have you read the healing library yet? (at left)

Me: BS, 40's.

posts: 1956   ·   registered: Jul. 29th, 2011   ·   location: West Coast
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aloneinside ( new member #36994) posted at 2:02 AM on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2012

Yes you can lose the WH but if you don't put a stop to it you can lose yourself and your WH. I hope you do well regardless of your choice. I'm rooting for you

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 lime (original poster new member #37004) posted at 2:08 AM on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2012

I'm so glad we have our appointment tomorrow. I tried really hard to get one sooner, but we couldn't get in any sooner.

This is one of the websites I stumbled across, but trust me, there are literally dozens.

http://katie-lersch-articles.com/what-are-the-consequences-of-forcing-a-spouse-to-end-his-affair/

I'm working my way through the Healing Library now.

I'm anxious for our appointment tomorrow.

posts: 18   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2012
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MammaMia ( member #34030) posted at 2:35 AM on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2012

Sorry you find yourself in this " elite " group.

Your H MUST stop all communication with her. No room for negotiation on this one.

Do you know how long have they been seeing each other? Were they intimate before you found out , or the weekend you saw them planning to be together would have been the time the A turned to physical?

Honey, if your H is going to leave, he IS going to leave regardless of. If you demand NC and full disclosure plus whatever else you think is imperative for you to know, if this pushes him away, so be it. You will know the truth sooner which is much better than later. You will only speed up the process.

Let us know what the therapist said. Good luck to you

PS Don't expect miracles overnight. Your H is still in the fog. But NC is imperative and the very first step.

And once the storm is over, you won’t remember how you made it through, how you managed to survive.But one thing is certain. When you come out of the storm, you won’t be the same person who walked in. That’s what this storm’s all about.”

posts: 966   ·   registered: Nov. 27th, 2011   ·   location: Somewhere in the South
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Holly-Isis ( member #13447) posted at 2:39 AM on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2012

Whatever the sites say, there will come a point where you'd rather lose your spouse than share him.

After all, once those vows were said, sharing was off the table. This should never happen and you should never have to put up with it.

The problem we run into as BSs is thinking of our cheating spouses as the person we have known all along. They're not that person. They're being a lying, cheating asshole. And unless something happens to force them into change, that's what we're losing if we create strong boundaries and expect things like fidelity. It's only after they've turned from being a WS to being a FWS that they're someone worth keeping. An active cheater? Any one of us deserves more than that.

"Being in love" first moved them to promise fidelity: this quieter love enables them to keep the promise. *CS Lewis*

posts: 11713   ·   registered: Jan. 26th, 2007   ·   location: Just a fool in limbo
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 lime (original poster new member #37004) posted at 2:42 AM on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2012

They spent the weekend together about a month before I found out. I found their "toys" while cleaning today. They were only together once. She lives two states away and they had to drive 4 hours to spend the weekend together.

He knows he is going to have to end things with her in order for us to move on. And he says he is working on it. I just don't know how long I can wait for it to happen. I do believe he intends to end it, I just don't have the patience, nor do I feel like I should have to wait.

They've been talking since the summer, but things got serious about six weeks ago. He said he thought it was just a phase he was going through.

I'm scared and overwhelmed and so heartbroken. I hate feeling like I'm going crazy.

posts: 18   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2012
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Lyonesse ( member #32943) posted at 2:57 AM on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2012

The website you mention seems to be a person who experienced infidelity and has her perspective on it. Here you will get a lot of perspectives, but there are certain basic tenets that have been forged by the collective wisdom. I hope you will find some conversations here that resonate with you.

I think, in the article you cited, the author is trying to run through all the fears a BS had about confronting, but then she says at the end that you have to draw the line:

But I believe that it is more effective to state the consequences of him not making the right choice and then allowing him to choose on his own. The script might be something like: “this has to be your choice, but I can tell you for a fact that I can not participate in a marriage where someone else is involved. In order for our relationship to continue and to resolve itself, I need to know that she is completely out of the picture and that you are completely sincere about saving our marriage. Until you can truthfully tell me this, then I can’t participate in our marriage. So you let me know when you have come to a decision.”

You really can’t “make” anyone do anything. You can only control yourself. I agree with what she says in this paragraph, except for the bit about “let me know when you have come to a decision.” Your husband has had two weeks to decide if he wants to preserve your M or not. He is acting like he doesn’t.

Let’s look at some of the fears she mentions:

If you “make” him give up his girlfriend…

He May Resent It: Even when your spouse understands why you need to give the ultimatum, he will often resent you for it because you didn’t give him any choice in the matter. They may also feel the loss of the other person and, whether rightly or not, blame you for it.

Then he is not truly remorseful, and is still in the affair. He didn’t give YOU any choice regarding the affair. He will indeed feel some loss at first, but as the fog clears, he will more likely feel deep shame for the way he hurt you. If he doesn’t, he is really not good husband material. Who wants a H who callously hurts his partner?

He May Long For The Other Person Since He Didn’t Have Closure: This is another common consequence. Since he didn’t see the relationship through, he might always think that she was the one who got away. He might obsess over what might have been or what she is doing now.

This is an addiction, not a relationship. Does an alcoholic need “closure” with whiskey? He may think those things while he is in the fog, but if you attempt reconciliation, one of the things he will need to learn is that love is a choice, a way of treating your partner. It is not fantasy soulmates bullshit from popular culture.

He May Still See Her Behind Your Back: Because of the things that I mentioned above, some spouses feel as if they can’t possibly let the other person go. However, they often still want to hold onto their family. So in their own mind, one way to make every one happy while they figure all of this out is to continue to see her behind your back. Now, sometimes they aren’t having physical contact or sex at this point, but they are keeping in touch because they just can’t bear to completely let go.

That is cake-eating. This is why one of the four cornerstones of reconciliation is total transparency. If you feel he is still hiding things, if you feel he isn’t fully committed to restoring your marriage, then you will save yourself a LOT of heartache by letting him go.

He May See You As The Person Standing In The Way Of His Happiness: There are times when the cheating spouse projects his frustrations onto the faithful spouse. This isn’t fair or accurate but sometimes, he has to put his anger somewhere and he isn’t always going to blame the other woman or himself. He may portray you as the person who doesn’t understand him or who is trying to keep him from true happiness.

Yes, this is something that a lot of waywards do. Again, that is not a person you can reconcile with. If he truly thinks you are standing in the way of his happiness, do you really want to be with him? Is that going to make YOU happy?

You May Also Wonder If He Would Have Ended The Affair On His Own. Insecurity May Be The Result.

I doubt that. My WH didn’t end the A on his own. I squashed that bullshit. I hardly feel “insecure” about that – as far as I’m concerned, I was asserting my marital rights. What SHOULD be the result of the work you both will have to do after the A is ended is more honest communication, so that you both understand what weaknesses led him to an A. Reconciliation is very, very tough after the devastation of an A, but if you are both working very hard towards that goal it is possible. If one of you is not all in, then it is not going to work.

You might read “Not Just Friends” (Shirley Glass). It is probably the book most recommended for understanding how affairs develop and what the aftermath looks like. Not everyone who offers advice about infidelity knows what they are talking about, including a lot of therapists. Glass at least has done research, and the people here on SI have experienced it.

I’m sorry if this sounds harsh. A lot of us have discovered our WS have issues we didn’t know about –and didn’t find out until the A. In your case, you already know your spouse is acting out due to depression and PTSD. I hope he is going to get some individual counseling, too. I support you if you want to fight for your marriage, and help your H find a healthier way of dealing with things. But I also want you to be fully aware that it comes with a cost and you have to take care of yourself, too, and prepare yourself to walk away if he refuses to be helped.

I'm scared and overwhelmed and so heartbroken. I hate feeling like I'm going crazy.

(((lime))) < that’s a hug

Yes, the pain is overwhelming, I know. But we all went through it and survived. You will, and we are here for you.

Me: BS, 40's.

posts: 1956   ·   registered: Jul. 29th, 2011   ·   location: West Coast
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aloneinside ( new member #36994) posted at 2:58 AM on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2012

You shouldn't have to wait and he's the one that's gone insane. Until he breaks out of the fog you can't reason with him. I know you're worried about losing him but the truth is you already have. If you don't cut it off he will string you along and have his side too. Cut him off and force a real action. There's a good chance you'll get him back. If you don't at least you saved yourself tons of heart ache.

posts: 24   ·   registered: Sep. 30th, 2012
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 lime (original poster new member #37004) posted at 3:07 AM on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2012

It's not fair.

posts: 18   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2012
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Harlowe ( member #34281) posted at 3:14 AM on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2012

Is she married? If she is, find out a way to tell her spouse.

Me ~ BS~43
Husband ~ WS~47
Second Marriage for both ~ almost 9 years
5 kids ~ my 2, his 1 and our 2
DDay ~ 11/5/11 DDay 2 ~ 1/7/12
In R and it is going well

posts: 118   ·   registered: Dec. 23rd, 2011
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 lime (original poster new member #37004) posted at 3:16 AM on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2012

She is not. Just a skanky whore.

posts: 18   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2012
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Harlowe ( member #34281) posted at 3:18 AM on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2012

Ah, I had an unmarried skanky whore in my situation too.

Start the 180. It's good stuff.

Me ~ BS~43
Husband ~ WS~47
Second Marriage for both ~ almost 9 years
5 kids ~ my 2, his 1 and our 2
DDay ~ 11/5/11 DDay 2 ~ 1/7/12
In R and it is going well

posts: 118   ·   registered: Dec. 23rd, 2011
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 lime (original poster new member #37004) posted at 3:22 AM on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2012

How long does the fog last?

posts: 18   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2012
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Harlowe ( member #34281) posted at 3:25 AM on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2012

Every situation is different....

My fWH was in a fog for about 70 days. 70 days after d-day, I started the 180. I did the 180 for less than 3 days and he completely snapped out of the fog. It was interesting, to say the least.

((((Hugs)))))

Me ~ BS~43
Husband ~ WS~47
Second Marriage for both ~ almost 9 years
5 kids ~ my 2, his 1 and our 2
DDay ~ 11/5/11 DDay 2 ~ 1/7/12
In R and it is going well

posts: 118   ·   registered: Dec. 23rd, 2011
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gonnabe2016 ( member #34823) posted at 3:26 AM on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2012

He suffers from ptsd and his depression got really bad this summer

I am sorry that your WH suffers from these issues. However, the PROPER way to deal with them is through therapy and talking to his WIFE. NOT finding himself a slut. You are not in a position to be *understanding* right now....he will take advantage of it and you will suffer mightily for it.

And he says he is working on it

He doesn't get the *luxury* of working on it. She does NOT belong in your marriage and either she goes or you do. Period. There is no *working* on it.

He told me he loves her

Then pack his suitcase and send him on his way. And I am not even kidding. If he goes and doesn't come back then you haven't *lost* anything because he's in unicorn fairy-land right now and not in real life with you right now anyway.

You cannot *nice* him back to you, you cannot *understand* him back to you and you cannot *sex* him back to you right now.

Good luck at your therapy appt tomorrow. Have you seen this therapist before? Not all therapists understand this crap.....do NOT let the therapist give him a *pass* or *blame* his A on anything other than your WH's poor coping skills and decision-making.

I'm sorry that you have to deal with this, lime. It is not fun. At.All.

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.

posts: 9241   ·   registered: Feb. 15th, 2012   ·   location: Midwest
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 lime (original poster new member #37004) posted at 3:28 AM on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2012

We haven't seen our therapist before. We had an intake session to get a feel for our issues, but it was a different person.

I hate that we had to wait so long to get to see someone.

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isadora ( member #29130) posted at 1:07 PM on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2012

I am going to agree with Lyoness. The article isn't advocating doing nothing. Your WH has to make the decision, but that doesn't mean you don't have choices.

FWH spouted a lot of the same crap your WH did. I tried to nice him back, tried not to push to hard. All it got me was a second dday.

When our sitch changed, is when I put my foot down, told him I would not be in a 3 person M. Finally I told him to go be with his OW that I was done. That lasted 24 hours.

I just kept doing the 180 until he finally sent the NC letter. After I told him to go be with OW, I realized he didn't want OW, he wanted the A. I just kept doing the 180 and detaching so I could get stronger and make the best decision for me. The A imploded because FWH didn't want her and she didn't want to be his dirty secret.

you can't control what he does only your actions.

Me: BW Him: who cares
Divorced: 4/2015
2 DDs and 2DSs
Who knows how many affairs at this point
Multiple D-Days

I can only control myself, no one else. I do not have that kind of power.

posts: 4736   ·   registered: Jul. 24th, 2010   ·   location: Back home again in Indiana
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 lime (original poster new member #37004) posted at 2:07 PM on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2012

I asked him yesterday to at the very least stop calling her. Since then they haven't talked on the phone.

That's gotta be positive, right?

posts: 18   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2012
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purplebreeze ( member #31611) posted at 2:23 PM on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2012

It is so rough the first bit after finding out. One just doesn't know what to do as their world is gone. Please read the healing library articles (the link is in the yellow box). Drink lots of water and take care of yourself.

They spent the weekend together about a month before I found out. I found their "toys" while cleaning today. They were only together once. She lives two states away and they had to drive 4 hours to spend the weekend together

One thing no one mentioned so far, make an appointment with your doctor to check for STDs.

It is good if he isn't talking to her on the phone, just remember, they may have found another way to talk, such as another phone.

DD Jan 16 2011

posts: 399   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2011
id 6043435
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