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They don't slink out ashamed, they brazenly leave and then have the "balls" to show their face again to me and act as though everything is just fine.

SM, I may be opening up a whole new can of worms here, but this ^^^ really stands out for me in this whole conversation.

I'm going to assume that this occurred when your son-who-is-dating-said-stripper was living at home.

And I'm going to ask why he was allowed to stay living with you while showing this level of disrespect.

Depending on how long ago that was, was your now-16-year-old son exposed to this behaviour in your house?

If so, you could be in for a whole nother round of the same if you allow the older one to hang out with the younger one in the company of the new GF.

If you were to be 'ok' with your older one dating this woman, then your younger one will pick up that message loud and clear and will most likely challenge you on it if you push back against him dating similar women in the future.

I think you are entitled to draw very clear boundaries in your own house.

The consequences of not doing so right now could really be quite interesting... and not so much fun as you try to launch the younger one into the world with a set of values he can work with.

Big hugs. This is really quite an odd situation.

[This message edited by FaithFool at 11:51 AM, October 12th (Friday)]

I wouldn't condemn every one of them as morally corrupt.

You are right, sisoon. If strippers where just "dancing" that would be one thing. But, that is not what strippers do these days. The strippers that strictly dance on stage and don't have any physical contact with the customers other than getting the tips put in their g-strings I am willing to concede that they aren't morally corrupt. That is why I suggested I visit the club to see what kind of stripper PSG is. Which I won't do.

neh ~ no, I don't think he is trying to provoke me. It is just who he is.

I just edited that reply of mine to add something.

I just re-read your original post.

I wondered why he had told you that he had a date with a stripper and about the playboy pics? Surely he knows how you would react?

FaithFool ~ thank you so much for addressing what I have mentioned earlier in this thread. If I didn't have a young teenage son at home this wouldn't be quite as big as a dilemma as it is.

DS dating stripper is now 26, he is 10 years older than youngest son. Yes, DS26 did this girls in his bed thing when he was in H.S. and living at home. That is one of the reasons I would totally freak out because I didn't want older son to be influencing youngest son. (who was between 6-8 years old)

When DS26 comes over with his GF's they always hang out with DS16 and they all play Playstation together, or soccer or such. Yeah, I don't want DS16 hanging with strippers. Call me old fashioned but that is how I feel.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 12:13 PM, October 12th (Friday)]

neh ~ DS26 told me he had a date. I said great and I asked a little about her. Whats her name? Where did you meet said date? You know, mom stuff.

He said "At a club. She is a dancer (yeah, thats what they are called) and she was featured in Playboy." Why did he tell me? Because for the most part my son doesn't lie to me. Also, he thinks it is awesome that she is in Playboy.

That is why I suggested I visit the club to see what kind of stripper PSG is. Which I won't do.

Hey, I'll go and give you the heads up. Every time I've been to a strip joint they all ended up a comedy riot act somehow so you're at least guaranteed a great story for thanksgiving.

SM I think you're not only fine in your stated boundaries but have a reasonable view of things as carefully balanced by emotional investment and rational overview. I don't think you really need to defend yourself here. Are you just drawn into the expanding discussion re: morality and free-range boobies or is there more?

I'm kidding about going to recon. I can't deal with the baffled expressions of naked women anymore.

Sister Milkshake, my uncle and my XSO both dated Playboy Bunnies. It didn't last for either because after the novelty wore off, they wanted someone they felt had more to offer for a long-term commitment. So I don't even think I would worry about this...I doubt very much that it will last or get too terribly serious. I am thinking he is just sowing some oats here....

And I know you are worried about his choices, but mid 20's is still young for many males these days. It is not uncommon for males to wait until their 30's before they start getting serious about settling down with someone.

Edited because I really did spell sow "sew". Geez. I am losing it....

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 12:19 PM, October 12th (Friday)]

Oh, dang, StillGoing, that would have been great. My friends always look forward to my crazy ass stories.

Are you just drawn into the expanding discussion re: morality and free-range boobies or is there more?

Yes, I think so.

eta: the discussion part, not the more part

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 1:45 PM, October 12th (Friday)]

He said "At a club. She is a dancer (yeah, thats what they are called) and she was featured in Playboy." Why did he tell me? Because for the most part my son doesn't lie to me. Also, he thinks it is awesome that she is in Playboy.

yeah, that makes sense. He's just being upfront and not provacative which is good

I hope you know that throughout this thread I have not been judging you, I have been trying to understand your POV - which I think I do now. I might not agree with it, but I now understand it.

That's one of the great things about SI, threads like this give all of us different perspectives to consider.

neh ~ I didn't feel you were judging me.

I started this thread because I don't feel good about being judgmental, but the fact is, I am about strippers. I wanted others pov, and I got it. It has given me things to think about.

My DS's choice in women are not what I would chose for him. His last GF worked in a club, too, but she was a cocktail waitress. I imagine since he works at night clubs, this is the main pool of women he is going to meet. If things don't work with PSG, there more than likely will be another.

With that being said I know that maybe at some point he will be having a serious relationship with someone, another stripper maybe, and I will have to figure out how to make all of our relationships work.

But for now, Milkshake house = Stripper free zone!

Yeah, see, when you say something like this:

With that being said I know that maybe at some point he will be having a serious relationship with someone, another stripper maybe, and I will have to figure out how to make all of our relationships work

that says to me you may be judgmental, but you're probably not too judgmental.

I hope your sons choose well and make it easy for you, not to mention for them, too....

8 pages...

IMO, it boils down to: your house=your rules.

But for now, Milkshake house = Stripper free zone!

excellent rule.

*sigh* DS26 just left for another date with PSG. He isn't working the whole weekend. Wonder if PSG is?

I was not suggesting that we blame the stripper for the man's choice to walk into a strip joint. All I was saying is that OWs often get villified. For those who only blame their WS, good for you. I just hardly ever hear an SI member tell a BS to stop calling out an OW in some areas of this site (her/his or someone else's). There is usually a lot of support for the BS in that situation. So, wen SisterM is calling out a stripper and it is deemed judgmental, I didn't understand why.

I think this is (was? I'm a little late back in the game) a great discussion. It does boil down to boundaries and philosophies on professional choice and what is safe and unsafe/fair and unfair. All important stuff to survivors of infidelity.

Good luck to you, SisterM, and your son. I hope PSG either fades away, or turns out to be Mother Teresa in disguise.

[This message edited by RockyMtn at 7:33 AM, October 13th (Saturday)]

Whether it is the stripper or another girl in future I would only advise caution with the "not allowed in my house ever" approach and how it is communicated. You don't want to give the happy couple the "us against the world" feeling if you can avoid it.

I tend to think that I would try the kill'em with kindness route. Perhaps saying that she is welcome in your house but you have a couple of requests. #1 that there be no discussion around DS16 about her job or her appearance in Playboy. #2 appropriate dress when around DS16.

Perhaps if mom isn't "flipping shit" over the new GF it won't be quite as much fun. Or at the very least you won't give them any adversity to come together to rail against.

I have not read every single reply to this thread, but I just wanted to see if I could possibly frame this in another perspective for you.

As you know, once your kids are adults, you cease being able to control what they do with their lives. All you can control is your reaction to their decision. I think it's good for you to explore your feelings, but I also think that you should carefully consider what actions you are going to take, and how they may impact your family.

Before my XWH had his affair, I used to frequent a board for people with terrible in-laws, usually mother in laws. It really is amazing how many women hate their son's partner. Sometimes for good reason; other times for no good reason.

In my case, my XWH's family had some weird incest thing going on, where his mom told me the first time she met me that if it was the last thing she did, she'd break us up, because she was the only woman in his life. (Boy, did I miss a red flag!) My XWH's MOW was a clone of his mom -- because his mom never loved him and just saw him as her possession, he sought it out from someone who looked and acted just like her.

Also in my case, I put up with her abuse for years, until XWH saw how much it was affecting me and cut his family out of our lives. He didn't see or talk to them for years prior to D-Day. Think about it -- do you want to lose contact with your son?

If you unilaterally decide that your son's partner is not allowed in your house, for family gatherings, etc., you risk driving a wedge between you and your son; one that might be irreparable. It's likely this fling will flame out quickly. (And if you voice your opposition, it's likely to last longer than it otherwise would have.) I think you should try to be accepting, just as you would be of any new girlfriend.

Don't talk about her work. When I meet someone, I don't say, "Well I sit at a computer, and then I calculate what the mutual fund's profitability will be if we decide to add a new distribution partner. Then I talk to the portfolio managers about whether we are going to add any new products this year." You know she's a stripper. It really doesn't matter the details of that. Your son has chosen to be with her. That's all that matters.

Avoid the subject of her job. Talk about vacations she's been on, pets she has, her hobbies. Maybe you guys have something in common!

I know you're not happy with his choice of partner -- and you have every right not to be -- but I really think the best option is to set aside her profession and try to maintain a cordial relationship of the sake of your future relationship with your son.

Hi Sistermilkshake

I have made my opinion of strippers clear earlier so I won't go there.

I have read most of the posts on this thread but this really stood out for me

If you unilaterally decide that your son's partner is not allowed in your house, for family gatherings, etc., you risk driving a wedge between you and your son; one that might be irreparable.

My DD began dating someone almost 3 yrs ago that I didn't like. He had a respectable VERY well paying job, was lovely on the surface but something was not quite right.

Since they started dating I treated him like one of my own. They had some spats at times and once I thought he was abusive (verbally). When she asked my opinion I gave it... and it was not favourable. I remember telling her once that I thought he had some serious problems.

2 months ago he dropped her. He had been begging her for years to leave her very good job, apartment that she loved, and friends to move to live with him about 400 miles away. (They had spent a fortune on flights to be together on weekends for almost 3 yrs). She agreed, quit the job, the apartment and went on a holiday prior to moving in with him. While on the holiday he broke it off. Poor kid was devastated but I am so pleased now that I let the relationship take it's course.

She has since said to me "You were right mum. There was something wrong with him. How could he do this to me? He kept saying he loved me and now he has done this!". (BTW I think he may have an OW but haven't told her of my suspicions)

I suppose I am saying we have to let our kids make their own mistakes and pray that they get through unhurt.

I know you are a woman of integrity. Your son is (in my opinion) making some poor decisions at the moment. But he has you and he has grown up with a woman who has taught him values. These will always be a part of his worldview.

If my son dated a stripper I would be horrified. I would hate the thought of him being with her and would cringe at the idea of having her in my home. But in the long term your relationship with your son is what matters most.

My advice is to be honest with him but also tell him you will be as friendly to her as you can. That your priority is his happiness and that you will set aside your feelings for him. I am sure your son knows your feelings and I am also sure that down the track he will know you are there for him. That's what matters most.

Good luck with this and BIG HUGS

Laura

DS26 has another date with PSG tonight. They have been dating for over a month now. Still haven't met her. That is fine.

DS26 will be moving out in a few weeks now, can't wait. We get along so much better when we don't live together and when I don't know everything he is doing.

Laura, I wanted to thank you for both of your posts on this thread. And, really, I want to thank everyone for all the different pov's, wisdom, and insight given here. It gave me a lot to think about.

(((SisterM)))

I did it! I read this entire thread.

I just want to say that who we are when we are in our twenties is not who we will always be.

Your son and his gf - whether this gf or a future one - are young and still shaping their personalities. They are still impressionable; maybe not as much as in adolescence, but they still are to a point, and maybe you will help shape their personalities in a good way. It sure sounds like you would.