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Milkshake, did your son suggest having this girl to dinner or did you jump the gun, projecting your fears?

No, I jumped the gun. You have to understand that there has been precedent's though.

My DS has dated many women/girls of dubious virtue. I/we (FWH and I) have found DS and a number of different girls (not at the same time) in DS's bed. This has happened since he was a teen. I even came home once and found him and a girlfriend in the shower together. These girls have no shame, either. When we have asked them to leave, some don't/won't. We have had to go back to the room and once again insist they leave. They don't slink out ashamed, they brazenly leave and then have the "balls" to show their face again to me and act as though everything is just fine. My son, unlike yours, doesn't think his and the girls behaviour was inappropriate. Afterall, it is only sex and a natural human function.

This is a good/bad point with my son. He is very non-judgemental. He accepts everyone and finds good in almost every person.

Are you suggesting that it's a stripper's responsibility to only perform for unmarried clients?

Blaming strippers for a WHs behavior is really misplacing blame.

iggyd ~ I didn't feel that is what Rocky was saying at all. Rocky, you can correct me if I am wrong. I think the point of her post was that if OW's are so villified for their behaviour with married men, why aren't strippers?

Just because they get paid? So, if the OW's in all cases got paid then it would somehow be okay? Not. So. Much. If an OW who was having an EA got paid, it would be okay? If the OW who was a co-worker and groped (not full on sex) her co-worker in the supply room closet but got paid a few bucks, it would be okay? Oh, it isn't their full time job or even their job? And it isn't stripping?

So it is different. If it is your job to grope married men, it is okay. They aren't sluts and we should just accept them as people who just happen to strip/dry hump/grope men, married or single, for a living. And just think they are fine people morally.

My DS has dated many women/girls of dubious virtue.

For a teenager, and in the early to mid twenties, there is a certain appeal to that.

I think the point of her post was that if OW's are so villified for their behaviour with married men, why aren't strippers?

I was going to consider that a seperate topic and ignore it, but since it has come back up...

I don't think we villify the OP unless they knew a person was married. Strippers must know that some of their clients are married, but probably do not know specifically which ones are.

Knowing certainly that some men are married but still choosing to do what they do ( MM often wear their rings at clubs, I am sure) in my book of judgement makes them morally corrupt.

Hey Sister. I get that. But strippers do what they do for a living. Should there really be an expectation they they'll make a distinction because they see a ring and walk away? They are doing a job and make no pretense. That's just the fact of the matter.

The onus is on the married man for being there in the first place.

I'm also not necessarily a proponent of vilifying OW either because the one person who could control their situation - WS - did not.

iggyd ~ the whole vilification of the OW is another whole topic and there has been countless threads about this topic since I have joined SI and I am sure it was a hot topic before I joined. I don't want to start this thread in that direction so I won't get into that.

I think that is my whole point, iggy. Being a stripper and doing what strippers do and they know they are going to do it with MM make them morally corrupt in my book. Saying it is just a job doesn't make them less morally corrupt.

Yeah, dubious virtue appeals to a young man in the early stages of his sexual development. (Rolls eyes.) (Some never grow out of it, it seems!) I also have no doubt that my son has had dubious virtue “ladies” in his bed –and maybe even in my house. Just not when I was likely to be around. But the only girls he brought home officially (i.e., to meet Mumsy) were ones he thought would pass my muster. To be honest, it sounds as if your son and his GFs have disrespected your boundaries, so you have precedent for jumping the gun. However, Milkshake, as my old dentist once told me, “Worrying about something that hasn’t happened is like paying interest on a loan you don’t have yet.” Maybe your S would never have thought of inviting this girl for dinner.

I guess what I’m getting at is maybe this is a storm in a teacup? By protesting that a stripper’s not coming to dinner, you’ve now created a bone of contention where one might not have existed--a sort of shoot first, contemplate the target later.

[This message edited by lynnm1947 at 11:09 AM, October 12th (Friday)]

Maybe your S would never have thought of inviting this girl for dinner.

True, but I also told him I don't want any strippers in my house and he would bring them into my house.

“Worrying about something that hasn’t happened is like paying interest on a loan you don’t have yet.”

This is very true, too. My DS is just dating PSG right now. Hopefully, it will fizzle out very soon, especially when she sees that my DS doesn't have much money. I will worry about what will happen and how we will be able to have a stripper in the family if and when that time comes.

If we can't blame a stripper for harming a marriage - and from what I know, many of these girls know some of their repeat patrons well enough to know they are married - why is blaming the OW so rampant on this site?

The person I blame for harming my marriage is my husband - he was the one unfaithfu to me.

Yes, ow played a part, but she could have been anyone.

OW did not coerce H.

Strippers don't force men into strip clubs.

I feel it is morally wrong of the stripper to have sexual contact with married men

Maybe married men should stay out of strip clubs.

Yeah, they should, neh. But, they don't. And strippers know that. They. Know. That.

Let's blame the WHs for their behavior. They are the ones who knowingly and willingly go to the club. No one makes them.

exactly

My DS has dated many women/girls of dubious virtue

What about his dubious virtue?

Isn't he just the same as them?

Strippers are just sweet innocent widdle girls just trying to make a living and they are just as pure as the driven snow, it is all the nasty men's fault that they rub their naughty bits on them whether they are married or single.

Sheesh, I am not saying it isn't MM's responsibility to not go to strip clubs, or at the very least if they do go to not have any kind of physical contact. What I am saying over and over, just because you get paid doesn't make it not morally corrupt.

neh ~ my DS, as I have said earlier in this thread, he marches to a beat of a different drummer. I think my DS is a slut, to be blunt. However, he is true blue. He has never cheated on any of his GF's.

eta: and I love my DS and I love him unconditionally.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 11:35 AM, October 12th (Friday)]

It takes two to cheat.

You can't cheat without a willing partner, otherwise it is just masturbation.

Strippers and escorts make themselves available for any male (and sometimes females) that have enough money. Just because they get paid for it does not make it any different than the OW that does it for jewelry, vacations, ego-boost, whatever.

They may not know which clients are married (but honestly, many of them know some of the guys, because many of the guys, including my WS, was not shy about telling them he was lonely because the wife was out of town and he needed some female touch.)

I don't necessarily blame the escorts/strippers for my H cheating, but I also don't have a whole lot of respect for someone who is a willing aid in the destruction of another person's relationship just because they get money to do it.

Oh, and.....my last SO used to guard strippers at the club. He knew them all fairly well. There was not one of them (I know, because I asked him at one point) that would turn down a married man's money because they were married.)

Same thing from another guy I dated approximately 13 years ago...he was a bouncer at a club, and he also had told me that the strippers knew the guys were married but it is just part of the job.

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 11:40 AM, October 12th (Friday)]

I haven't read all of the replies; there are so many!

I just wanted to say that I would feel the same way. I would not be happy if any of my children dated a stripper. I would be friends with a stripper. I would live next door to a stripper as long as he/she didn't give shows in the backyard (). I personally would not feel comfortable dating a stripper, and I would not be happy that any of my kids were. I know it's a faster way to make money, but I feel like I've read enough about stripping to know that it's not a happy or glamorous life. What young person grows up hoping to become a stripper? Stripping, IMO, is the result of young people who are down on their luck and often need cash fast. I can't imagine what they feel about themselves... do they have a healthy view of themselves, or do they view themselves as empty, sexual objects? Is that someone I want my kid to date?

BTW-- I know that's a generalization, and I know that someone on this thread was a stripper. I'm not saying that the above is true for you. I just don't think you read a lot of happy, successful stripper stories for a reason (unless it's about how they successfully managed to leave the profession in order to do something that is truly meaningful and uplifting for them).

(((Sister)))

neh ~ I get the feeling from a couple of your posts that you think I think my son is better than the strippers. I haven't said that. This thread is about the stripper and having strippers in my house. This isn't about my son's character.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 11:43 AM, October 12th (Friday)]

Being a stripper and doing what strippers do and they know they are going to do it with MM make them morally corrupt

T/J, I think - morality comes from what we observe as well as from books of morality. In modern society, the moral message that are proclaimed include:

1) If it makes money, it's OK to do it unless it's clearly illegal - and stripping is legal where it's done.

2) Some crimes are victimless, so it's OK to break the laws that criminalize those acts. (WRT protitution, this ignores the possibility that crimes are committed against the women to get them into and keep them in prostitution - the john usually doesn't see that. OTOH, how many SIers smoke prohibited weeds?)

So strippers may not adhere to Biblical morality, but I wouldn't condemn every one of them as morally corrupt. In a real sense, they're just doing what they've learned from the rest of us.

[This message edited by sisoon at 11:48 AM, October 12th (Friday)]

Strippers are just sweet innocent widdle girls

I don't think anyone is suggesting that.

But men aren't innocent victims of stippers.

Back to your original point of the thread, your son and his stripper girlfriend.

Is he dating her just to provoke you?

ETA:

Last night DS26 had a date with a stripper. I didn't meet her, however, if I wanted to see her I could get the latest Playboy issue as she is featured as one of the college girls of the Big Ten.

Why did he even tell you all of that?

[This message edited by neverendinghurt at 11:57 AM, October 12th (Friday)]