SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

iggyd ~ yes it is very thought provoking, and I appreciate every single one of you who took the time and energy to post your thoughts on this issue.

I have never been called judgmental so many times in the most nice, kind ways possible.

eta: to fix grammer

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 1:58 PM, October 11th (Thursday)]

You know, being judgemental gets a bad rap. Imagine trying to make it through life with no judgement. (Pretty sure there is a typo in the bible and the real line should be "Judge not, lest ye be judge", but oh well.)

Even predjudice is an essential survival skill, meaning simply to prejudge. In the case of polar bears, my predjudice tells me that it is much safer to stay away, rather than give the polar bear a chance and get to really know it. The only problem with it is that some people with really poor judgement skills to begin with use it to hurt others undeservedly.

My objections to some of the comments here are the same as any other generalizations that get applied universally. No problem with the idea of saying generally speaking with a generalization.

SMS, as long as you live in a free country with private property rights, it is up to you who you allow into your house, and who you don't, and you don't have to explain the reasons to anyone. If you are bothered with the idea that you might have an issue, you can look into it. If you are not bothered by it, just carry on.

Debating the general morality of strippers is... well it's not very productive for anyone except those considering becoming or dating one.

Thanks, aesir, for your always sensible words. I really appreciate the male pov and like when you stop by my threads to interject your particular wisdom.

StillGoing ~ as I have a little ADD, I nearly always get what you are saying and how you got there, in general, but even if I don't, I always enjoy the little sideways trip your posts take me on. As with aesir, I so appreciate your male pov.

Oh shit, I was sensible? Thanks for telling me, I will stop that right now.

@aesir

I agree with SisterM,

My objections to some of the comments here are the same as any other generalizations that get applied universally. No problem with the idea of saying generally speaking with a generalization.

Debating the general morality of strippers is... well it's not very productive for anyone except those considering becoming or dating one.

These two statements summed up my feelings exactly - short and yes "Sensible".

You know, I know two former strippers. One was a neighbor in my old neighborhood who married a lawyer when she was a single Mom to two kids and became a SAHM to them and another child she and her husband had together. She also is what I would call a born-again Catholic. The other is the Mother of WH's cousin's children. She and WH's cousin met at the methadone clinic and neither of them have custody of the kids, the children are being raised by WH's aunt and uncle (and have been for the last TEN years)

The only thing I can tell you is that both of these women told me the same thing. All strippers are hookers. All of them. No exceptions. Some are a bit pickier than your average streetwalker, but there isn't a one of them that hasn't turned tricks and if they say that, they're lying.

Except for whoever's friend that was who was just trying to get through college. I'll give her a pass since she's someone's friend.

Sorry if this a t/jj:

Prostitution is legal in Nevada on a county by county basis. It is not legal in the big, populous counties such as Clark, where LV is located. There are legal brothels about an hour from LV. Las Vegas Metro actively persues illegal prostitution inthe city, especially "carpet ho's" - those that work casinos. I know popular media shows a different view.

The Moonlight Bunmy Ramch is in Northern Nevada, about 8 hpurs from Las Vegas, in Lyon county. I see the girls around on occasion.

End Nevada law lesson. Lol /tj

I think we fail to remember that their professions do not define who they are as people.

I also disagree with this. Every single job I have had in my life has defined me for who I was at that time.

When I worked for the insurance agency, it was who I was at the time until I realized I wasn't that person and left. (I took the job because of the great benefits, then I realized I had to deny people claims for health care they desperately needed. That was NOT who I was so I found something else.)

When I took the job at the animal clinic, that was totally who I was. I was helping animals and I was helping people and that was who I was and the only reason I quit was to stay home and have babies.

When I took the job at the hardware company, it was not because I necessarily liked hardware, but because who I was at that time was a young married woman needing a stable job to pay the bills and it worked for me. It was an honest way to make money that did not cause my conscience any hardships.

Now I am going back to school for social work. That is definitely who I am.

So, right now, the stripper IS the type of woman who has no problems taking off her clothes if someone waves a few bucks in front of her. And maybe (most probably, because I know a fair amount of men and women that are either in this profession or frequent it) she does more for money. Me personally, the thought of letting some creepy smelly guy touch me because he is waving a $20 or a $50 in front of me makes me want to hurl, but that is MY choice. Her choice is her choice.

And you are entitled to YOUR choice and what makes you comfortable and what does not.

There have been some thoughts on this thread about drug dealing for a living (and yes, that does say a bit about who that person is) or a job in janitorial services (and that also says something about who that person is; to me, it says that person is working an honest and necessary job in order to pay the bills. And maybe he/she likes to make things cleaner and nicer for others. Or maybe that is all they can find right now. But it still says something about that person. We spend approximately 1/3 of our life on the job. To say that our job does not define us is not true. If we are doing something only for the money, that alone says something about us.

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 5:28 PM, October 11th (Thursday)]

I don't think you are being judgemental, my dear.

Could write screeds why not. But then I would be simply backing up my VERY judgemental judgement about women who present their bodies as meat for payment, and then are surprised that men treat female bodies as meat, to be screwed and beaten.

m334455 ~ thank you for your anecdotal stories. It helps confirm what I have read and heard myself.

Rebreather ~ thanks for clearing that up for me. I asked so not a t/j really.

Naiveagain ~ I agree very much with your pov.

Edie ~ always lovely to hear your thoughts and insights. Thanks for dropping by.

Ok, I'm coming late to this party and I have not read all 6 pages of replies so I apologize if I'm saying what someone else said but....

Since you have formed a negative opinion of her based on her profession, IMHO, the devil you know is better than the devil you don't.

I would want to meet her in order to get a feeling of her in person. I wouldn't ask about her job because you already know what she does for a living.

I'm sure there are many other things you can talk about....family/background, school (if she's in school), hobbies, etc.

Sometimes biting our tongues and, at least pretending to be open minded, helps things run their natural course.

And often, the natural course may be to end as quickly as it began.

m334455 - Generalizations and speaking for others is not allowed on SI. Please see the guideline below.

Please refrain from making statements that generalize gender, WS/OP/BS, race, religion or political alignment. Also do not presume to speak on behalf of other people.

We spend approximately 1/3 of our life on the job. To say that our job does not define us is not true.

The type of job a person does may say something about a person, but it by no means says everything about that person.

That quiet accountant in the corner, might ride a harley on weekends and play in a heavy metal band every night.

I know that the job I do currently doesn't define me, it doesn't say much about me at all.

I don't think any of us are defined by just one thing, we are the sum of all of our parts.

apols to sms if this is t/jing the thread

Neh, that is true. We are a sum of all of our parts (interests, activities, career, etc...)

And you are right, I know white collar workers that ride bikes. My first H repaired VCRs and computers and is a total computer nerd and has always owned a bike.

When I worked at the insurance company, that was not totally who I was. Actually, it was not who I was at all which is why I had daily migraines. That is why I had to quit. But what it did say about me is that I was the type of person that wanted a job that paid well and had good benefits, I wanted stability and a decent job, but I was not willing to stay in one that disagreed with the core values of who I am.

We are an overall sum of all parts.

The stripper may go to church on Sunday and live a good family life. So in that case, what it would say about her is that she is a religious person who loves her family who feels it is okay to make money by taking off her clothes and teasing men. Again, that is her choice (if that is what she does, this is hypothetical). I am just saying we always talk on here about if someone shows you who they are, believe them. She is showing you a part of who she is, but not all of who she is. But, this is still a part of who she is.

People are gray, they are not black and white. We are complicated and many faceted. You cannot judge someone by one part of their life, but it does tell you a bit about that person and what they believe in, who they are, and what is important to them.

I've done some stupid things in my life. It does not mean I'm stupid. It means I've made some bad choices that at the time seemed okay. Hopefully I learned from them. I like to think I am the type of person that makes mistakes but learns from them (I'm still working on that! but I am TRYING to learn!)

ETA: Okay, to take this a little further to help me say what I am trying to say....my WS was a wonderful man in so many ways. He was a cop/firefighter/EMT. He saved lives. He rescued people, he had part of his ear burned off rescuing someone. If I am ever in a burning building, or being held hostage, I want him there.

However, he does not make a good romantic partner. He is unable to be faithful. That does not define him, but it says a bit about who he is. I am no longer with him because I wanted the whole package, not just the hero. In time, I finally learned to look at him as not totally evil, everyone has good and bad, but the bad he had was not conducive to being married to him.

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 6:19 AM, October 12th (Friday)]

Sorry, I said this earlier, so I hate to repeat since it probably just means my question was boring, but I'm curious what others think as it relates to infidelity and the general culture here on SI.

If we can't blame a stripper for harming a marriage - and from what I know, many of these girls know some of their repeat patrons well enough to know they are married - why is blaming the OW so rampant on this site? Just because she's not getting paid? So, rubbing tits on a married man's face is OK as long as she's financially struggling and getting paid for it...but the OW who has a ONS for free is so abhorrent? A piece of trash who gets called "it"? Someone who lured our WH in? I see this all the time here.

And, yes, some men have the OK to be there. Or the stripper just chooses to believe that, or doesn't ask, or just compartmentalizes. Sounds a lot like OW who ignore the BS at home, the family, or who chooses to believe the marriage is rocky, or over, or open. And yet we crucify those OW. Short of the OW who were 100% lied to, thinking they were with a single guy, the OW gets no free pass because "it wasn't her fault the married guy chose to step out." Even those who never slept with the man.

All I'm saying is that it seems really incongruent to give someone a pass for sexual behavior with married people (the stripper), but others don't get passes (the OW).

I agree 100% with you RockyMtn, and feel the strippers don't/shouldn't get a pass. That is my big problem with this PSG. I think I was alluding to the same thing on the first page of this thread with my imagined convo with PSG. And, in other posts on this thread.

I feel it is morally wrong of the stripper to have sexual contact with married men.Yes, lap dances are sexual contact. It doesn't make her better than a slut who does it for free.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 9:52 AM, October 12th (Friday)]

All I could think of while I was reading this is that my FWH's OW was an upstanding graduate student and is currently a doctor - and she rubbed her boobs and vajayjay all over married men FOR FREE!

Do you think she's sitting on her current boyfriend's mother's couch confessing to being a slut and admitting where her mouth has been? Nope.

People rub their privates all over others ALL THE TIME. Some do it as an official job and others do it as a hobby. Some do it in clubs with bouncers and others do it in parked cars behind walmart. I don't see the difference. A stripper gets paid for it and OW give it away for free. What difference does it make? At least the stripper is upfront about it.

This girl had a clear and conscious choice to entire a profession in the sex industry, fully aware that there is a negative connotation connected.

It is completely HER choice to do so, knowing that she has chosen to WORK at having men objectify her for money.

I simply cannot comprehend how this does NOT define the person that she is. If someone can enlighten me, I would appreciate it.

Because life isn't that simple. It really doesn't boil down to "I think today I'll go be a twirling whore and suck cock for spare change" any more than "I think today I'm going to be a fireman and run around saving cats from trees."

I am the mummy of a now happily married son. I know my son in his teen years probably dated some girls who could be considered less than ladies. I don't know this because he told me. I think this only because I'm old enough to know that boys do this. However, I am 99.9% sure that if my son were dating a stripper, he wouldn't invite her to Thanksgiving dinner at my house. Not because I would cause a fuss and refuse to entertain her, but because he himself would see it as inappropriate. Milkshake, did your son suggest having this girl to dinner or did you jump the gun, projecting your fears?

[This message edited by lynnm1947 at 8:57 AM, October 12th (Friday)]

@ RockyMtn

Are you suggesting that it's a stripper's responsibility to only perform for unmarried clients?

Let's blame the WHs for their behavior. They are the ones who knowingly and willingly go to the club. No one makes them.

Blaming strippers for a WHs behavior is really misplacing blame. Like blaming food for making you fat when you can control what and how much you eat.

No one makes anyone cheat. That's a deliberate decision. Blaming it on the OW, strippers, the weather, only prolongs the process of addressing the hard issues of healing, reconciling, walking away, etc.