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Guys, please...you're getting the wrong idea. This is not about coercion or denying someone of their rights.

R involves certain expectations of the WSO, no?. BS usually have certain "deal breakers" in place in order to R.

Things like:

Transparency

Honesty

NC

IC

CC

Etc

One of my deal breakers is no more rejection.

What if a WSO is not "in the mood" for any of the above conditions I listed? Generally that is looked down upon and a BSO is usually told that it is unacceptable for R. Why should rejection, after many years of being rejected, be looked at any differently?

It's all part of the same process and journey to R IMO.

It's hard to hear someone's tone of voice online. Maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say,Jesu. If I did, I apologize.

So if she doesn't have sex with you when you want it,whenever you want it regardless of how she is feeling,you get angry?

Nope. I don't "demand" sex, regardless of how she is feeling, for starters. When I initiate it is to make love. These days she usually does the initiating though. I would imagine that if she rejected me for no good reason then I would get angry, yes.

Have you told her if she doesn't pleasure you it's over?

I have told her that if it goes back to the way it was before DD, with next to no sexual intimacy on her part, lying, excuses etc...then yes, it is over.

Has she told you no? What happened?

Once. She said she was tired one night when we were going to bed, not long after DD. I said "What...were you ever too tired for OM?". She promptly woke up, snapped out of it, apologised...and then we made love. The next day she apologised again, comforted me, and made it a point that she would never reject me like that again.

I understand dealbreakers and, honestly, if my H never wanted sex with me I don't think I could R. But not allowing someone to say "no" to sex, especially if it's only occasionally and not an ongoing issue, is exactly the same as coercing them or denying their right to say "no".

rape [reyp] noun

1. the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.

If you give the ultimatum "never say 'no' or I'll leave you", that, IMO is duress. It is a threat and I wouldn't stand for it no matter how much I fucked up my M by screwing around.

du·ress [doo-res, dyoo-, door-is, dyoor-] noun

1. compulsion by threat or force; coercion; constraint.

Synonyms

1. intimidation, pressure, bullying.

Exactly, YOUR WSO is apparently okay with this, but that does not mean that every other WS out there should be okay with this type of ultimatum. I understand that a loving spouse should want to please their partner, but that doesn't mean that I will always be in the mood whenever my H is. Typically, even if I'm not really into it, I don't turn my H down. I rarely say "no", but if I do, I expect that to be okay with him because HE loves ME and wouldn't want to make me do something I really don't want to. I wouldn't want that kind of "love".

I thought I had made it quite clear that I have been relating everything I have said to my situation and WSO.

I understand everyone's situation is different. I'm just putting my opinion out there as to what I would and would not be ok with.

I understand dealbreakers and, honestly, if my H never wanted sex with me I don't think I could R. But not allowing someone to say "no" to sex, especially if it's only occasionally and not an ongoing issue, is exactly the same as coercing them or denying their right to say "no".

rape [reyp] noun

1. the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.

If you give the ultimatum "never say 'no' or I'll leave you", that, IMO is duress. It is a threat and I wouldn't stand for it no matter how much I fucked up my M by screwing around.

du·ress [doo-res, dyoo-, door-is, dyoor-] noun

1. compulsion by threat or force; coercion; constraint.

Synonyms

1. intimidation, pressure, bullying.

Now you just hold on a minute there. You are accusing ME of RAPE??

WSO definitely has the right to say no to anything she wants however many times she likes, just as I have the right to not want to stay in a relationship where I have been betrayed, lied to, cheated on, disregarded, denied, rejected, had my health put at risk, been humiliated and physically abused.

IMO you owe me an apology!

Jesu, I apologize. I reread your posts and although I don't agree with everything you said, I admit that I was mostly pissed at a post I read that I incorrectly remembered being from you.

So you are in fact a WW frigidfire86?

I guess that explains it!

Yes, I am a WW, but I'm also a BW. Being a WW doesn't make my opinions as a BW or my pain any less valid.

[This message edited by frigidfire86 at 10:42 PM, October 12th (Friday)]

Once. She said she was tired one night when we were going to bed, not long after DD. I said "What...were you ever too tired for OM?". She promptly woke up, snapped out of it, apologised...and then we made love

Dear God, is that really what R looks like? Mentioning some piece of trashed that fucked your wife as a "nudge"?

What on earth would that do for you? I get the, well if you did it for them you should do it for me, but what I don't get at all how the fact it has to be pushed under threat of disolving the "marriage" even remotely appealing.

How does needing to "incentivize" your partner into servicing you rebuild anything but anger, pain, hurt and absolute rejection on both sides. I'm not even addressing demeaning her. She's staying so her choice, but "you".

I wonder if she does love being intimate with you on your command.

What command? I never "command" her.

Or if she's too scared to tell you,"Ive had a long day at work. I didnt sleep well last night and Im tired. Maybe tomorrow night?" Because she knows she's not allowed to be to tired.

You honestly think I want a relationship where she is scared of me? WSO loves me, trusts me, feels secure with me, and is safe with me. I'm trying to save our relationship regardless of what she has done to ruin it. I believe that she respects and values that.

For the record I also work, have long bad days at work don't sleep we'll, and get tired. I still don't reject her.

So you are in fact a WW frigidfire86?

I guess that explains it!

Explains what, that she has an insight into what wonderful pathos and unhealthy dysfunction you might be engaging in? And that's a bad thing?

One time I turned down a blowjob from my wife because I was rocking the SHIT out of a battleground in world of warcraft.

I was eviscerated for that. By other people too. Pretty humiliating. Nevermind I will have sex 7 times a day under nearly any circumstance, this one time.. well, you know. You can build a thousand bridges, but suck one dick and you're remembered for a cocksucker.

Sometimes there is no good reason. Doesn't make it easier. But if it's not a habitual thing then.. feel annoyed and make it up the next night by talking about it and fucking like rabbits.

eta:

Dear God, is that really what R looks like? Mentioning some piece of trashed that fucked your wife as a "nudge"?

What on earth would that do for you? I get the, well if you did it for them you should do it for me, but what I don't get at all how the fact it has to be pushed under threat of disolving the "marriage" even remotely appealing.

How does needing to "incentivize" your partner into servicing you rebuild anything but anger, pain, hurt and absolute rejection on both sides. I'm not even addressing demeaning her. She's staying so her choice, but "you".

Holy shit UO, do you have to spin that like the BH is raping the WW? Cherry pick that shit a little less. Sometimes people get pissed and argue and good things come out of it without it being some kind of demeaning fuck you to the person who cheated.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 10:50 PM, October 12th (Friday)]

It's hard to hear someone's tone of voice online. Maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say,Jesu. If I did, I apologize.

Thank you confused615.

Jesu, I apologize. I reread your posts and although I don't agree with everything you said, I admit that I was mostly pissed at a post I read that I incorrectly remembered being from you.

Thank you frigidfire86.

Yes, I am a WW, but I'm also a BW. Being a WW doesn't make my opinions as a BW or my pain any less valid.

Well, for me personally it does make your opinion less valid. Sorry.

Let's just agree to disagree I guess.

Holy shit UO, do you have to spin that like the BH is raping the WW

Wow, still, that's what you got from my post? Talk about cherry picking. I wasn't spinning it like rape at all. Trust me. There would be no reading in between the lines with that shit.

I was very clear that I didn't see how needing to talk, incentivize, guilt your partner into having sex with you by using the piece of shit to do it. How in God's name does that build closeness?

This is another thread that people try to imply rape over any kind of intimacy negotiation. I mean, really? Have you never tried to convince your partner to have sex when s/he or he is not in the mood?

If mentioning the AP and R is rape, having sex with a WS for fear of losing s/he to the AP should also be rape. Also, mind movies, etc.

I think this also diminishes the pain of who was really raped.

Dear God, is that really what R looks like?

Who said we were in R?? That incident was not long out from DD BTW.

Mentioning some piece of trashed that fucked your wife as a "nudge"?

She's not my wife, and I asked her a question regarding the A.

What on earth would that do for you? I get the, well if you did it for them you should do it for me, but what I don't get at all how the fact it has to be pushed under threat of disolving the "marriage" even remotely appealing.

.

We're not married.

What did it do for me? When she rejected me it made me feel unimportant and worthless compared to OM.

Let me give you an example. When she was having the A, she messaged me at 4am telling me she loved me and goodnight, just after she had finished having unprotected sex with OM after only knowing him a few days, unknown to me at the time of course. She then proceeded to fall asleep in his arms, whilst I fell asleep alone thinking of her, my love. She also had unprotected sex with me at a later date not long after without even having the decency of getting tested for STDs.

So when she turned around, apologised for rejecting me, and then made love to me...it made me feel loved, important, and that she was truly remorseful for her past bad behaviour.

No pushing or threats either!

How in God's name does that build closeness?

Well, let us be selfish sometimes. Not all sex is going to be like this.

I saw somebody else post a definition of rape and then I saw you taking shots using the word "service" and "incentivize" immediately following and drew a connection. If you're not talking about forcing a spouse into fucking through guilt then I apologize, but from your post it just looked like a follow up to "fuck me or go away."

Though I honestly have no fucking idea how else someone could say "servicing" but hey, I'm sure you have a good whatever the fuck it is you have for that.

Explains what, that she has an insight into what wonderful pathos and unhealthy dysfunction you might be engaging in? And that's a bad thing?

She is a WW, I am not. Her insights into my relationship are trivial IMO.

Not to mention far from accurate, especially if she is going to accuse me of rape.