SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'll start off by saying that I'm not in IC, nor will I ever be in the foreseeable future for reasons I won't discuss, so now that that's out of the way I treat SI like a virtual IC. Some here know that I've been struggling pretty bad with my WW's A. And by struggling I mean 13 months out, I still cry several times a day, trigger constantly, mind movies, the works. I'd say I'm probably no better, if not worse, than I was a few weeks from JFO. Some of it's on her, and I can't control that. I work hard on trying to control what's on my end. I've read a lot of books, scoured the internet. I read SI voraciously, examine things that people say, pick up tips from what others talk about how they discover underlying issues, and do further research to see how / if I can apply it to my own healing. So bear with me on this one, and please don't read if you cried at the end of Old Yeller. I don't want that on my hands. (I apologize in advance for the graphic language, sometimes it's the only thing that conveys what you are trying to get across).

There was a thread a bit ago where a member discussed how they felt when other members talked about the OP in physical terms that applied to them, and how it made them feel. That got me thinking what types of threads on SI make me feel like absolute shit, so much so that I rarely venture into those forums? After many nights of crying recalling memories, I think I've figured it out. Blow jobs. I hate reading threads about them. At first I thought it was just because BJ's (no need to amplify further) were a huge part of my WW's affair. It was the first thing she did - climbed into his truck, drove off into a field, and sucked his dick. Right there I had thought I had found out my "why" I hate BJ threads. But I also read in Wayward a lot, and the great members in there are always pressing new members to keep digging, that the first "why" is almost always superficial. I struggled digging further initially because a) I was pretty sure that every time reading a BJ thread triggered me and gave me mind movies about my WW was a damn good reason and b) I thought I was smart enough that a) had to be right. Some advice if I may? The vets in Wayward are pretty spot on - a) probably ain't right.

Now comes the hard part. Simple childhood history for background because it's sorta important to the story. My mom was a serial cheater - 5 kids from 5 different fathers, married two of them, my dad was the last. She married him because he was in the Army, she wanted another kid, and he had insurance. He left for Nam before I was born, and didn't return until I was 4. He didn't return because my mom served him D papers after I was born, and they couldn't be served in a war zone, so he stayed until he got shot up by being on a routine patrol one night that happened to be the Tet Offensive. They lost 80% of their men, dad took quite a few bullets but earned a bronze star with the V for dragging a few guys into a hot LZ while injured. They tried to R when I was six, but dad was pretty f'd from the war, and mom wanted to fuck other men. Wasn't a great scenario. So obviously my mom wasn't a rocket scientist, she was a 10th grade dropout who liked having kids and screwing guys. I don't think the fact that she couldn't afford to care for her kids ever entered her mind (and don't get me wrong, I love her dearly - this ain't a mom bash). It lead to less than ideal living situations growing up. Most of my early childhood was Section 8 housing, food stamps, standing in line for cheese, milk, and other staples. We'd move from housing to housing as mom followed men and the deposits ran out. It wasn't great, but I made the most of it. I wasn't an unhappy child, I did well in school, and I've gone on to be what I consider pretty successful person. But my FOO issues were right there in the middle, and for almost my entire life I was able to shelve them and protect myself from them. Not any more.

Since every red blooded male who reads this thread is still trying to figure out why I hate BJ's, now comes the hard part. After bouncing from housing to housing, it looked like we had finally made it. We lived in a trailer, but it was ours. You can't imagine how nice it is to finally live without roaches, police, riots, and various other sundries. Mom had a boyfriend at the time (I'll call him Hustler, that was his CB handle and mom met him on the CB), who was a divorcee. He convinced her to sell our trailer, and we'd move into a bigger one with him and his two daughters. So it would be my mom, me, my sister, and them. Let's just say this arrangement didn't work out - it ended up with our new trailer being sold at auction as we were moving out. In the meantime though, I learned to hate BJ's. Hustler had a thing for young boys, and would sneak in my room at night and try to suck my dick. I was terrified. I finally lived in a trailer, mom needed him to afford it, and if I ruined it, we would be back to Section 8 or on the streets. So I didn't tell mom, or anyone. I was so ashamed. Scared. I was just getting out of sixth grade. To make matters worse, Hustler had a CB buddy called Santa Clause. They shared their prey. Mom was friends with him as well, and agreed when he asked her if he could take me to an amusement park (with him and some other of her CB friends) a couple of hundred miles away. I had to stay at his apartment the night before so we could get an early start. That night, he bet me I couldn't drink four Foster's Oil Cans. I was in seventh grade and let's just say alcohol wasn't unavailable in my housing situations growing up, so I took him up on his challenge for $100. I drank all four without puking, and passed out. Woke up because his beard was scratching my groin as he sucked my dick, but was too drunk to do anything about it. Lesson learned I guess. I never told anyone about that. A few years later when I was sixteen, the FBI came to my job site asking if I new Hustler. He had been picked up for raping two young boys on an Army post, and I was summoned to testify against him in Federal court. I had to take the witness stand, and relive my experiences with the entire court, I was challenged on specifics, did I come in his mouth, did he jerk me off first, did I enjoy it, did I come on to him first. It was pretty brutal, but I got through it, he was sentenced to 48 months of outpatient care for mental illness, and I moved on with my life and truly never thought about it again. Until now.

I didn't really realize I hated BJ's until just tonight. I've had my share, they are enjoyable, but I never pressured or really even asked a girl to give me one. If they went down on me, I tolerated it (sound familiar?) but I'd almost never cum in their mouths. I never gave it much thought honestly, I just figured I'd rather please them and would just as well cum inside them or have them jack me off. I can't ever remember any woman I've ever been with complaining that I didn't let her suck my dick enough, or cum in her mouth enough. My WW once asked me if I enjoyed it and I said it was fine, but I preferred being inside of her. Never thought much of it. I was fine with BJ's, I could just take them or leave them, to me there was always something better to do sexually with a partner than ask her to do what I thought might be humiliating to them. How many BJ jokes are out there that reinforce that women hate BJ's and that they are nasty? Plenty. Why was the bride smiling while she walked down the aisle? She knew she had given her last BJ. (Ba dump dump). It's ironic, I thought I was over what was done to me in my early years, was able to put it out of my mind and live a good life, never triggered about it, pretty much forgot about it. But then my wife had an A. And now, I can't stop thinking about her giving BJ's.

Sorry Puddles if you are reading this, it's about to get brutal, but your part in this is central to the issue and I don't know any other way to explain it. BJ's were a centerpiece of her A. It started out like I described earlier in the truck, and every session they had together ended in her giving him a happy ending, because the poor guy didn't like to cum in a condom. Not only that, when I was doing some forensics I found this gem she said to him in one of their first chats: "i loooove giving head when i guy loves it". Fuck me. For 17 damn years I've got every man's dream, a woman that loves to suck dick and swallow, and I don't know it? That would have been some handy information there, I tell you. I'll take the blame for never explaining to my WW why I was ambivalent about her giving me head. That's on me. But damn. I already had some pretty deep issues with BJ's, and to know, and I mean know (he has the video) that it was that important between them, I'm struggling getting over. How do you get over shit like that? There are so many levels - the sharing of her real feelings with him, but never me, the actual acts themselves, the mind movies when we are intimate. Shit, for the first 6 months after DDay I freaked if her head got near my nether parts. And yes, I've "reclaimed" the territory so to speak, once. It took a while. That in itself is a trigger, because even when we shared that particular act, I always took forever (surprise!) and she'd get frustrated and we'd finish the old fashioned way (her hogtied over a cherry cheesecake - don't knock it till you've tried it). But I never thought it was important, in fact, I kinda of expected to be rewarded for her not being made to suck my dick on demand. Some of it I see as possibly being humiliating to someone who does it out of "duty". I didn't want to be that guy, just never realized she wanted me to be that guy.

I'm just trying to get this out of my system, hopefully writing it out here will be some form of therapy. But I'm really hung up on this now. I know how important it is to her, it's obvious. It's also obvious to me that it's something that I seem to have a problem with. I finally realize why, but I'm not sure what to do with that information. I was able to shut it out before, and probably have some other shit in other closets as well, but I can't get this door shut again. It's not the only door, just one of the ones I've found the handle to. It's just a double whammy I can't handle - what brought me so much pain in my life was what my wife gave to the OM for pleasure on demand. He'd call her up, guaranteed to get it every single time. What's the damn record for how many times in a row that a woman does this? How many women reading this (might be safe to say probably none by now) have ever swallowed five times in a row to please their mate? That's not even a third of what I'm talking about.

Thanks in advance to anyone who offers advice. I also apologize for the lack of emoticoms to really emphasize what I was trying to say, but I just typed this out in a text editor and I'll be damned if I go back through looking for spots to put smileys.

I'm so sorry. I can certainly understand why you would hate blow jobs. It's okay to not like them, even if you didn't have the background you have. Funny, you married a woman who likes giving them, but you don't want them. I married a man who hates vaginal intercourse, but that's what I love. Why does shit like that happen?

(((Tred))) I am so sorry for what you have gone through.

I have absolutely nothing to share that may be helpful to you. Just wanted you to know I read your story and it is very understandable why you hate BJ's.

I do feel you are suffering from PTSD, though.

Tred,

My best advice is to not block any of that incredibly painful SHIT!!! You opened the door, get it out. It's like cancer that grows...while you're in there get it ALL so you can heal.

I f"$:@:& HATE CHILD MOLESTORS!!!!

I'm so sorry. Damn it...who does that shit????

I too have some issues along those lines (he did weird stuff with the OW). I just can't go there.

I'm listening....and feeling your pain. Wish I had something to help.

Tred....first of all I'm sending you some HUGE hugs. Being exposed to a sexual predator can fuck up your mind in more ways than you can count.

Are you still trying to work things out with WW?? If so, you two need to have a serious "come to jesus" talk about your past and your triggers from that past. Like right now.

I understand not being able to trot off to IC....a lot of us just can't. But you need to live your truth, and let her know what that truth is if she's remorseful. If she isn't....I'm not sure honey.

You are the one living with the situation. If you think she is on board to save your M.....talk to her. Unless you tell her, she will have no idea why you feel this way. If she's not on board, I don't know what to tell ya, except that you've been heard, and I can totally understand your feelings.

Sending all the good mojo your way that I can find!

p.s....I'd like to unload a my 12 gauge full of rocksalt right into the groins of your abuser and his abusive "friend". Men like that deserve to be killed in a slow, painful way.

(((Tred)))

Now that I've gotten the hugs out of the way....holy shit dude, if there's anyone who has a right to hate BJ's it's you!

Have you told your wife about the incidents in your childhood yet? If not, I really think that you should. Any person with an ounce of compassion will be able to understand why you seem to get such little enjoyment out of them.

Now I am NOT a therapist, or at all trained in psychology, so please take what I say with a boulder of salt. When I was growing up I had severe social anxiety disorder. It wasn't a well known problem back then, so it was chalked up to me being extremely shy. I'm talking panic attacks, vomiting before my first communion because I was so scared to stand at the front of the church, and so on. In high school I got a job as a waitress. It forced me to interact with strangers and come to terms with my crippling anxiety. Now I am able to go out in public, talk to strangers, and basically lead a normalish life. I still get butterflies in my stomach before parties or new situations, I still shake on the inside when meeting new people, but I am able to cope. I believe it is called something like desensitization therapy? Have you thought about trying that? Maybe have your wife give you head for 5 minutes once a week and then work your way up. It will probably never be something that you enjoy as much as actual intercourse, but it is possible that it won't be such a dismal experience as time goes on.

Going by your posts, your wife isn't doing much to help you right now, is she? I can understand why you wouldn't feel safe talking to her about this issue when you feel she doesn't exactly have your back in other areas.

How do you think your wife would take hearing about this childhood issue of yours? Is she rugsweeping the affair now? Not sure how you have this talk with her if she's not open to really talking about the A critically since the issue of your childhood and her A actions are connected so vividly for you.

I guess in the end, if you do tell her, either something will click and real growth between you two can perhaps begin or the writing that appears to be on the wall for your relationship will simply be confirmed.

There's not a damn thing I can offer in advice, frankly I'm feeling sad and mad for a young boy..geez that's waymore than your share of shit. I'm just sorry you had no one to protect you and I hope Hustler and Santa Clause are dead and gone and can't hurt anyone else.

I don't like bj's anymore either (giving) since I discovered ow's forte is anal sex...the thought of my ws having his dick in her nasty ass makes me puke.

{{{{{Tred}}}}}

Thank you for sharing your story....I am so, so sorry for what you endured.

You do understand that childhood sexual abuse is not something to take lightly, right? My saying is that "once you *see* something, you can't *unsee* it."....and you have just now started to *see* this. It is most likely going to get worse for you before it gets better. You are going to experience anger at the sick men that *used* a child (you) for their own perverse pleasure and you are also going to most likely have to experience a significant amount of anger towards your mother for bringing these depraved CB men into your life and letting these men abuse you.

I'm sorry, Tred, but that is a *journey* that you are going to HAVE to take in order to get past it. As 0115 said--do NOT *stuff* it away.

This is an issue that is completely separate from the issues you are dealing with concerning your WW, IMO.

I still cry several times a day, trigger constantly, mind movies, the works

Tred, I'm thinking that you are experiencing a *meshing*. I think that your WW's behavior has opened wounds in you that you had completely sealed off and that all of the emotions that you are experiencing right now are not only related to your WW's betrayal, but are also incorporating your childhood trauma.

Have you told your WW about this? Is she able to support you as you deal with this?

((((Tred))))

I am so sorry for what you've had to experience. Those sick fucks deserve to die slowly and painfully. I volunteer.

Just wanted to let you know you'd been heard and that I care. You've been given some good feedback here. Keep working and keep posting. We're here for you.

I'm just so sorry. (((Tred)))

ETA - It's no small miracle that your awesome sense of humor is still intact.

I'll be damned if I go back through looking for spots to put smileys.

[This message edited by Jrazz at 1:25 AM, November 30th (Friday)]

Child sexual abuse is serious. Don't treat this lightly - it is okay to let yourself feel the fear... and to know that you are safe.

I was able to shut it out before, and probably have some other shit in other closets as well, but I can't get this door shut again. It's not the only door, just one of the ones I've found the handle to.

My IC says that your brain blocks out things when you are young, but there is a shelf life. Things will come out later, usually when your brain knows it is strong enough to process them.

I'm not sure that your W is the best person to talk to about your CSA. It is not her fault. Untrained people can damage you - it doesn't take much for someone's expression of outrage to be translated by you into disbelief and feel violated all over again.

Do you understand that you do not bear any responsibility for that molestor's behavior? The shame is all his, not yours at all, ever.

Tred,

You were so very kind to me on my thread a couple of weeks back about finding my rapist on facebook.

I want to return that to you and say simply, I am so sorry that you had to go through all that. CSA is just so unimaginably cruel and destructive and then for the ones we finally trust with our hearts to betray us so horribly... I don't know how any of us survive.

You are in my prayers. I am just so sorry for your pain right now.

Please keep talking to us here if there is no way for you to go to IC. Because this shit is so bad and so poisonous, you cannot keep trying to stuff it, but it is too big to try to process alone.

((((Tred))))

Oh I'm so sad and sorry for you, and so mad at your abuser(s).

Don't hide from your feelings. I hope you can find a way to work through them.

Maybe some day you will enjoy BJs. Maybe not. That's not important, and any woman worthy of you will be able to respect what you enjoy/don't enjoy. But I hope that one day the mere thought of it doesn't flood your mind with terrible memories and fill you with pain.

((((Tred))))

Oh Tred. Im so sorry.

You were abused. Terribly. I want to kick your mother's ass,and hug that little boy,all at the same time.

I hate BJ's. HATE them. Used to love them. It was something I knew I was great at. Im also a good teacher. The day after d-day,OM told me in great detail how my husband gave him a BJ. Many things he said were very familiar,as they were *my* moves. He took what I did to/for him,and used that to please OM.

And he gets upset because I don't give him enough BJ's since d-day. He's damned lucky I've done what I have. it's massively painful and triggers me like crazy.

I usually stay of the BJ threads on SI too.

((((((((Tred))))))))

I appreciate the well thought out advice, I really do. You ladies are awesome. I'm sure the men out there are still trying to get their heads around it, and as soon as the shock wears off (What? A dude hates BJ's ? Is this a joke?) they'll be along promptly.

I should have pointed out that my WW knows my history - all of it, she just didn't care what impact her A had on me. I've always shared my feelings with her, but I don't think I ever quite made the connection between my childhood and why I couldn't give a shit about BJ's, so I don't fault her for not making the connection either. I do fault her for never telling me that it was that important to her, and for traumatizing me even further by offering her love of oral sex to another man just so he would tell her she was pretty. And to find out the way I did, seeing her brag to a POS player that she loved to suck dick with a guy that enjoys it just fucked me up further. I know it's not the complete picture of her affair, but damn, she's offering herself up to other men by implying that she'd make a fantastic affair partner because her husband doesn't enjoy BJ's, and she loves doing it? And it wasn't just words, she backed it up with her actions. Her AP must have felt like he won the Ashley Madison lottery...maybe I'm just naive, but who would imagine that they could sign up on a cheating web site and find a beautiful woman 8 minutes aways who would give BJ's on demand? And swallow every single time? I didn't think women like that existed except in porn movies, and they always end up with it on their face. Finding out I had just about every man's dream in my bed every night and didn't appreciate it enough to keep her faithful is a dagger straight to the groin.

It's weird how you think you've conquered these demons, but in reality you've just shelved them. I didn't think I had stuffed them, I pretty much didn't give it any thought after I was cross examined in a Federal courthouse, with the asshole who did this to me sitting right across from me glaring at me. If anything, I probably didn't go far enough in telling what he did, but after over a year of abuse I had plenty of details and I think the defense attorney figured his best option was to get me off the stand, because I was brutally honest in court. I was ashamed, but I realized I had been taken advantage of. I had put up with it because in my mind I was protecting my family at the time - my mom needed him to help pay our bills or we would be homeless. Up until my wife's A, no woman had ever complained that I didn't want her to go down on me enough, hell, I thought I was doing them a favor . It's not like I freak out when a woman goes down on me, I just never really enjoyed it. I'm just now connecting the dots as to why I'm the weirdo guy who doesn't care for BJ's. Then I find out that the woman I love, have been married to for over 13 years at the time, is telling strangers how much she loves BJ's but she never told me. That really sucked (no pun intended).

Gonna, I think you are pretty close with the "meshing" concept. It's like taking a nightmare from your childhood that you think you've gotten over, the feelings of betrayal from a woman that I loved (my mom) not protecting me, then bringing that nightmare out of storage over 30 years later with the only other woman I'v ever loved (WW). You start to think that you'll never be protected by the women in your life, that no matter what you do for them, it will always mean less to them than the approval of other men. Knowing that they will hurt you, and let you be hurt, just so they can have some POS fuck them when you've given your heart, soul, everything to them. It hurts. A lot. This wasn't the worse trauma from my childhood, seeing my mom bashed bloody by one of the BW of some dude she was fucking was worse. But the meshing concept seems pretty spot on - everything that traumatized me growing up was done to me again by my WW in her A. It's like she took every story I ever related to her and rolled it all into one gigantic nightmare and locked me in a dark closet with it. Then after hours of hearing me scream and cry, opened the closet door and tells me she didn't realize it would hurt me. It takes some skill to pull every fucked up thing from my childhood into a 20 month affair, but my WW pulled it off. I have to give her that.

Confused, your H is lucky your name wasn't Lorena Bobbit. I'm sure my WW was great at it as well, and it hurts that I didn't appreciate her talents so she went and found a man who did. I guess we'll be staying out of the BJ threads together.

US -

Do you understand that you do not bear any responsibility for that molestor's behavior?

I'm pretty clear on that. I don't take responsibility for what happened to me as a child, and I damn sure don't take responsibility for my wife's A. I just wish realizing that it isn't your fault would make it hurt less.

Thanks again for the feedback. The genuine empathy people have on this site for others is a gift. One last thing to point out is we are trying to R - it's been a real struggle but I'm still here.

You're not alone in not really enjoying them but... Man, what a horrible story. I hope the pieces of shit who stole your childhood from you rot in hell.

Tred,

First of all man hugs x 10. You've been through so much. Coming to terms with our past and how it relates to now is tough. I'm sorry for what you are struggling with but I know you'll get through it and make some sense of it for yourself. You are a smart man.

I also want to tell you that I appreciate the advice you've given me in the threads I've posted. You have great insight and perspective.

I think broken people use oral sex as a selfish manipulation tool. Once you are on to them and what they are doing it completely removes the intimacy involved and makes it cheap and meaningless. Hard to get satisfaction when you feel your being used.

Lorena Bobbit

Tred, I just have to tell you that is who I was thinking of when reading your heartbreaking story. I kept thinking "where is Lorena Bobbit when you need her" ?

he was sentenced to 48 months of outpatient care for mental illness

Really????? This nearly made me

Hugs again ((((Tred))))

SMS - yeah, we were pretty surprised by the sentence he received too - but it turned out he made a plea deal and claimed insanity, and this was a few decades ago when CSA was swept under the rug more than it is now. Hell, I don't even know if he ever had to register as a sex offender. Public lists and putting "I suck boys dicks" signs on your lawn were years down the road back then.

Rye - thanks man. I just regurgitate the great wisdom others have said (and then take credit for it ).

I'm processing, and don't expect that this will be over today by reading a few posts. I think I'll be dealing with this shit the rest of my life, just trying to get to a point where it doesn't floor me every minute of the day. No one should have to deal with this shit twice in a lifetime.