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Just Found Out :
The worst I have ever felt

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dirk pitt ( member #22167) posted at 11:55 PM on Saturday, December 22nd, 2012

am not a good enough actress to pretend that nothing is wrong

He has to help you through this.

Welcome, you might want to start your own topic. This a slow time because of the holidays, but we are here for you.

(((n0tm3)))

Me=BSHer=WW (ilovemyhusband)

posts: 2168   ·   registered: Dec. 26th, 2008   ·   location: ottawa ontario
id 6150547
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n0tm3 ( member #37884) posted at 12:48 AM on Sunday, December 23rd, 2012

I know. I feel for him because this is so not easy. Especially when others are involved.

If I start my own topic it helps make the nightmare true.

[This message edited by n0tm3 at 6:49 PM, December 22nd (Saturday)]

Me: BS 49
Him: WH 49
DDay #1: 12/17/12; OW 52 now D after 24 years

Married 21 years, friends since 1993
3 kids; 10,16,18
Reconciling

posts: 359   ·   registered: Dec. 22nd, 2012
id 6150583
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nuance ( member #28793) posted at 1:19 AM on Sunday, December 23rd, 2012

Here's an interesting thread

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=469167&AP=1&HL=

Dday May 2000. R'ed.
People suck.

posts: 1381   ·   registered: Jun. 14th, 2010   ·   location: California
id 6150609
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dirk pitt ( member #22167) posted at 1:52 AM on Sunday, December 23rd, 2012

If I start my own topic it helps make the nightmare true.

It is real. Now you have to get past it. And you will.

Dirk

Me=BSHer=WW (ilovemyhusband)

posts: 2168   ·   registered: Dec. 26th, 2008   ·   location: ottawa ontario
id 6150644
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keptmyword ( member #35526) posted at 3:56 AM on Sunday, December 23rd, 2012

Since our financial situation is pretty bad, it makes "sense" that she'd want to get away from that and move toward a guy who's more financially stable -- owns his own business, nice house

Fuck. That. Shit.

No, it does not make any "sense". There is no sense, logic, or reason in running away from your problems.

"Solving" ones problems makes "sense". What she did is flee from the problems that she was a part of and should have stood together with you to face them as she vowed to when she VOLUNTARILY married you - "for better, for worse." Instead, she ran off to the responsibility-free and problem-free fantasy world of bullshit that is her "affair". It is cowardice and selfishness in it's purest and starkest form. My STBXWW is exactly this. She has become the biggest coward I have ever personally known.

Listen, I know you feel as though you have to walk some fine line between being "nice" to her and expressing your anger to avoid increasing distance from her but the fact is any form of niceness is simply going to erode the teeny bit of respect she has left for you. You have got to keep in mind that she needs to give herself some mental justification for what she has been doing. And she, like mine, is going vilify and demonize you in the worst way in her mind. She has to keep the image of you as a flaming demon that forced her to the arms of another man.

Which is why it is so important to always know that the affair had nothing to do with you or your marriage.

Be angry. She knows you should be because she knows she would be if you did the identical thing to her. Let it rip! Be angry in a steely, deliberate, determined, and yet controlled way.

It has nothing to do with you.

Filed for and proceeded with divorce.

posts: 1230   ·   registered: May. 4th, 2012
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 Smoky (original poster member #37880) posted at 5:36 AM on Sunday, December 23rd, 2012

Keptmyword:

No, it does not make any "sense". There is no sense, logic, or reason in running away from your problems.

Well, I say "sense," but I really mean that I can understand her being sick of me not "providing" well enough (not that *she* makes good money). She grew up poor, and I grew up by no means rich, but not really wanting for anything. But I've never gotten my act together in terms of a career, and I've never made particularly good money. I've been unemployed for much of the last two years, and I lost my last long-term job in 2006. (I've had so many rotten work experiences; call it an excuse if you will, but when it comes to getting work, I get pretty much paralyzed by depression and anxiety, and the feeling of certainty that the next situation will be even worse.)

We've also managed to run up (and pay off most of) a lot of credit-card debt (thanks in no small part to her addiction to shopping), and we've been trying to crawl out from under it for years.

So I can see how a guy with steady income might appeal, when you're used to living hand-to-mouth all the time. Strangely, though, "H" has almost no Web presence, and his only Yelp! review says: "Call [H's business] if you want to get ripped off by this band of toothless criminals." (No, I didn't write it.)

You'll get no argument from me about her "flee(ing) from the problems that she was a part of" or the idea that she made vows that she has since broken. Of course she's being a coward, and it's disgusting. This may sound wimpy, but over the years, once or twice, I've awoken with a mini-anxiety attack after dreaming that she was leaving me; I'd wake her up and basically make her promise me that she'd never, ever leave me in a million years. "When I promised that, I meant it." Well, see, when we make promises, the implication is that we see them through and actually *keep* them. Otherwise, they're not promises, are they? (I have to cop to the fact that I've never trusted her since our split in our twenties, and even less so since her emotional affair in 1990 that got us into marriage counseling. I've *mostly* trusted her, but never completely.)

I don't plan to be overly "nice," but I don't want to be rude, really. Even so, I won't pretend -- especially in marriage counseling, which begins tomorrow (and I'm antsy as hell) -- that I'm not angry. By the way, the latest thing (can't remember if I mentioned this already, but also can't be bothered to check) that pissed me off was at the end of a phone call Thursday (to notify me that she was going to drop by and pick up some stuff for a clothes drive) when she said, "Take care of yourself." I just said "Yeah, bye," and hung up. "Take care of yourself." It sounded patronizing -- something she knows, no doubt, that *everybody* is telling me; and she's trying to sound like she cares from the point of view of an outside observer or something.

I also don't plan to let her make this my fault. Some of the marital problems, sure, but not the affair. Again, she's supposed to be an adult of 50 -- as is the 62-year-old "H" -- and when faced with the potential to cheat, the thing to do is back off. So that ain't my fault.

We never learned to fight, or even argue. Stuff occasionally would come out as a snippy comment with a mildly raised voice. Probably this has more to do with our breakup in our twenties than anything else -- my fear that calling her on her shit would drive her away, and her fear that calling *me* on my shit would make me afraid that she'd leave. But obviously we're past this "be polite and suck it up" nonsense, so while I don't figure on name-calling and yelling and such, I do plan to say "Bullshit!" when I hear it.

I'll assume this is good news, but my shrink is in the same group as our marriage counselor, and she (the shrink) says that he (the marriage counselor) does everything he can to save a marriage -- apparently unlike the counselor we saw last week who basically told me to shut up. (In fact, I get the sense that *lots* of marriage counselors don't make that much of a priority out of saving a marriage.) So my immediate goal, I guess, is to keep my wife coming back to marriage counseling.

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toomanyregrets ( member #37740) posted at 2:30 PM on Sunday, December 23rd, 2012

"Take care of yourself"?

That sounds an awful lot like what you'd say to someone when your leaving for good.

"Good bye and take care of yourself".

BH - 66 - Retired
fWW - 62

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife
"Regret is when you realize you broke your own heart.
Remorse is when you realize you broke someone else's." - Bla

posts: 745   ·   registered: Dec. 7th, 2012   ·   location: Upstate NY
id 6150995
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 Smoky (original poster member #37880) posted at 3:48 PM on Sunday, December 23rd, 2012

"Take care of yourself"?

That sounds an awful lot like what you'd say to someone when your leaving for good.

"Good bye and take care of yourself".

Yeah, that too.

Probably the reason it sounds patronizing to me is that I interpreted it to mean, "Make sure you eat and get enough sleep" -- as opposed to "I wish you well" or something.

posts: 90   ·   registered: Dec. 22nd, 2012
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toomanyregrets ( member #37740) posted at 3:53 PM on Sunday, December 23rd, 2012

I guess it all depends on how she said it.

BH - 66 - Retired
fWW - 62

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife
"Regret is when you realize you broke your own heart.
Remorse is when you realize you broke someone else's." - Bla

posts: 745   ·   registered: Dec. 7th, 2012   ·   location: Upstate NY
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bufffalo ( member #21854) posted at 4:03 PM on Sunday, December 23rd, 2012

smoky...

Meanwhile, yes, of *course* she's in contact with this asshole. The night I learned about the affair, she left our apartment to stay with a friend

Sorry Bro....."staying with a friend" is code for..."i wanna spend time with my boyfriend"....shes deep into her affair...

IC for you i strongly recomend.....however MC with a wife that is openly dating another man is like painting a house that is on fire...it wont solve anything....

Not trying to beat you up...your wife is already doing that to you....and it blows..

JMO....the best way to get your ass outta a tug-of-war is to simply let go....dont play....you are not gonna "nice guy" back into your arms or your marriage....just wont happen...and it sucks....

You have a couple of options, dude.....stay in a marriage that your wife has a BF.....or not....thats it...and again, im sorry. You didNOT cause this....you can not control it....and you canNOT fix it....

Time for you to play hard ball.....draw that line in the dirt....like Travis at the Alamo. Let her know what is acceptable behavior......and what is not....but you need to be able to "back it up"....

Me?....i'd lawyer up hard and fast...check out the 180 ...then DO IT!!!! the 180 is designed for you to be able to detach yourself from a toxic situation and move on...it is NOT a secret plan to "win her back"....but sometimes that is exactly what happens...hopefully before your "give a shit" quits working....being "clingly or needy" is NOT sexy and will not aid you in salvaging your marriage....

No..i didnt want a divorce....but wanted to be married to a cheatin' wife even less....KWIM?

Your wife is in a fantasy, fog induced, lie based relationship with her OM.....its all bullshit....you dont have to take it, bro.....you dont. Until her fog lifts...if ever....you have 3 in your marriage....time to go "alpha" on her....no, im not advocating you eat your young, but i think you "catch my drift"....

Tell her what your limitations are...concerning her behavior...then act upon it...."laywer up"....alot of divorces never make it to the final hearing....if she pulls her head outta her ass and gets it back into your marriage - you can stop the procedings....IF you want to.....but it will send her a huge reality message....and your wife needs a reality check...

Do you know whe the OM is??? Is he married? Does his wife know? Are you sure?? (your wife is not a good source of this information.....dude, cheaters lie)...can you verify any of this?? Advising his wife may "cause" him to toss your wife under the bus....thus helping her fog raise...and to see that she is just a "notch" on the OMs belt....after exposure to their wife...most OM will dump the strange..if the OM has a wife - it is imperative that she be told...understand??

Again...i strongly advocate the 180...having done it twice, two different wives, one ending in divorce (my choice)..the other went on to a pretty good R....its all in my profile, should you care to read it...as long as your wife is dating other men...the 180 is for you....

Keep us posted.....

Bufffalo

[This message edited by bufffalo at 10:09 AM, December 23rd (Sunday)]

DDay 9/25/2008

BH-me

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 Smoky (original poster member #37880) posted at 8:43 PM on Sunday, December 23rd, 2012

I want to get to Buffalo's post, but I don't have time right now. Meanwhile:

I would love to say that I was encouraged by our marriage counseling session today, but I can't. Basically, it was a feel-out session for the counselor, and as a result, I really didn't get to say anything particularly important. He started by asking what brought us to counseling, and I said that I had learned about the affair two weeks ago, that my main goal is to save the marriage and work on it, and that my more immediate goal is just to get us communicating.

My wife said:

* She's been feeling increasing discontent for about six years (which is when I was laid off from a long-time job, though she didn't mention that). She cited my inability to keep jobs, my failure to help enough with housework, and the feeling that I wasn't giving my son enough direction once he graduated from high school. She's been feeling overwhelmed at having to be the main breadwinner (especially because she makes so little money).

* She had fantasized about running away, being on her own.

* Community theater -- which is where she met "H," was a distraction from all these things that led to the discontent. (She and I met in community theater, too.)

* She was not actively seeking to fill the void she was feeling -- i.e., not looking for affairs.

* She's looking to work on herself, not pick one man or the other; she's just trying to put one foot in front of the other.

* She'd been letting the dissatisfaction eat away at her and kill her slowly.

* She's not feeling "invested" in putting the marriage back together. Rebuilding it is "not a priority," but she needs to understand "how it got this bad for me." She's feeling too much on the fence to know whether she wants to work on our marriage.

* She feels as if she needs a whole different kind of life, needs to know if it's "possible for me." She is willing to "accept the consequences of taking that risk."

* She came to that session because she needed a safe place to say what has been going on and get it out there, because she'd been feeling stifled.

* Antidepressants probably saved her life, since she occasionally has had suicidal thoughts and feelings of hopelessness. She has made no plans or attempts to kill herself -- she just feels sometimes like she wishes a magic wand would just make her disappear. She doesn't want the pain she's feeling, or to put others through the pain of her suicide.

* The fact that she's extremely hard on herself, that she puts herself down before others can, affects her friendships, relationships, and work atmosphere.

* She is trying, though she finds it difficult, to live day by day, give over control to a "higher power." (BTW, "H" is a recovering alcoholic in AA. She has attended meetings with him, despite not being an alcoholic, and experienced "a sense of calm.")

The marriage counselor will meet with her individually in a week, at which time -- or maybe not -- she'll determine whether she wants to stick with marriage counseling.

The counselor said, "My function is to save marriages. I never advise divorce -- people don't realize how painful a process it is." On the other hand, he's not going to try and force anybody to stay married.

She was driven to the session -- by "H." Clearly she had spent the night with him. Afterwards, she asked me for a lift to the friend's house where she's staying. I asked if she wanted to drop by the apartment to visit with our son, and she said yes. She stayed about an hour, during which I finally noticed that she was no longer wearing her wedding ring.

When I drove her "home," I said, "I have to say something: The fact that you are not wearing your wedding ring hurts me more than I can say." I tried to express the actual emotions I was feeling, but I couldn't put them into words. She didn't really have an answer for that. And I dropped her off. That may have been a tactical blunder on my part, but I couldn't stay silent about it.

Now I get to drive down to my mom's -- for our first holiday without my dad. Whee!

posts: 90   ·   registered: Dec. 22nd, 2012
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toomanyregrets ( member #37740) posted at 10:12 PM on Sunday, December 23rd, 2012

Removing her ring is a MAJOR sign.

She wouldn't do that unless she'd moved on.

I'm so sorry.

[This message edited by toomanyregrets at 8:27 AM, December 24th (Monday)]

BH - 66 - Retired
fWW - 62

"Affairs are not mistakes, they are a series of deliberate choices." - CrappyLife
"Regret is when you realize you broke your own heart.
Remorse is when you realize you broke someone else's." - Bla

posts: 745   ·   registered: Dec. 7th, 2012   ·   location: Upstate NY
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bufffalo ( member #21854) posted at 7:33 AM on Monday, December 24th, 2012

This guy has been married around 35 years. My wife says that his wife plans to clean him out in the divorce. I wonder if there *is* a divorce in progress, and if she even knows about the affair... and I wonder if I should say something to her.

Your wife is NOT a good source of this information....cheaters lie, Bro.....expect it ....count on it!! At this point in my FWWs affair - i did NOT believe anything she said....her bullshit was that deep...

If your wife is still "dating" this married dude....yes....tell his wife. Get proof...print it out...and let her know...IF you want the affair to be over!! The BF will cut your wife loose when his wife gets wind of what he is up to....

Most married men that "fool around" will NOT quit unless the "headaches, hassles and bullshit"" outweigh the benifits of having a little strange on the side...im betting that this rodeo is NOT his first...when faced with a divorce and losing at least half of what he has.....IRAs, retirement, assets, house, etc....your wife will get "thrown to the curb"...setting the stage for her fog induced fairy tail to end.....its a HUGE reality check when she realizes that she is nothing to him other than a "notch on his belt".....

You telling his wife of the affair will NOT push them together......dude, they are together NOW!!!!

The best way to end the affair is exposure....affairs are like mushrooms....they thrive if kept in the dark and feed of off bullshit....get it out in the light - they die....

Keep us posted....

Bufffalo

DDay 9/25/2008

BH-me

posts: 6172   ·   registered: Dec. 1st, 2008   ·   location: Texas
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bufffalo ( member #21854) posted at 7:33 AM on Monday, December 24th, 2012

OOPs....double post...

Bufffalo

[This message edited by bufffalo at 1:34 AM, December 24th (Monday)]

DDay 9/25/2008

BH-me

posts: 6172   ·   registered: Dec. 1st, 2008   ·   location: Texas
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bufffalo ( member #21854) posted at 8:45 AM on Tuesday, December 25th, 2012

smokey...

Just checkin' in on ya....

Bufffalo

DDay 9/25/2008

BH-me

posts: 6172   ·   registered: Dec. 1st, 2008   ·   location: Texas
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keptmyword ( member #35526) posted at 9:13 AM on Tuesday, December 25th, 2012

She was driven to the session -- by "H." Clearly she had spent the night with him. Afterwards, she asked me for a lift to the friend's house where she's staying. I asked if she wanted to drop by the apartment to visit with our son, and she said yes. She stayed about an hour, during which I finally noticed that she was no longer wearing her wedding ring.

Her affair-guy drove her to marriage counseling for you and her - after spending the previous night with him?

She has devalued you in her mind to a pretty low point. I understand you want to do what you can to try to save your marriage but you must realize that you may run the risk of giving her the impression you are "competing" with the affair-guy over her. This may give her a tremendous sense of satisfaction, validation, and even mental justification for doing what she has done.

Detaching and filing for divorce will probably be your best chance in jarring some reality into her.

It has nothing to do with you.

Filed for and proceeded with divorce.

posts: 1230   ·   registered: May. 4th, 2012
id 6152665
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 Smoky (original poster member #37880) posted at 3:44 PM on Tuesday, December 25th, 2012

First, I can't thank you all enough for the care and concern you've shown.

Second... yesterday I was yelling at her, telling her basically to get her head out of her ass, drop this pretend relationship, work on herself, work on her marriage, come home, and stop being an idiot. She said "Okay." That's when I knew I was dreaming, and I woke up angry.

Spent most of the day writing a letter, which I haven't sent her yet, partly because I'm afraid that if I don't tie her to a chair and gag her to prevent interruption, she won't hear me at all, and she certainly would have the option of tossing a letter as soon as she saw something she didn't like. Nevertheless, here's the gist -- I just wanted to sound you out:

* I’m not enthusiastic about being with a woman who shows so little regard or respect for our marriage, our son, our home, and, especially, me. I am, in your words, “not a priority.”

* You said you’re “prepared to accept the consequences of the risks” you’re taking, but you’re not, and you won’t understand what you’ve lost until well after you’ve lost it.

* You said, “I may be making the biggest mistake of my life.” Well, yes: you are. You have fucked up hugely.

* I deserve better than to be cheated on and discarded. I deserve better than to be taken for granted and not to be communicated with. I deserve better than to have my life turned upside-down and ruined because of the problems you’ve carried with you all your life.

* Your recent choices and actions are cowardly, far more so than I ever thought possible from you.

* I did nothing to push you into this affair. I did nothing to push you out of our marriage. Your failure to communicate meaningfully with me, your unwillingness to believe in me, and your apparent belief that I was supposed to be your father substitute and savior are the culprits.

*Get your head together in therapy, where you need to explore your awful upbringing and incompetent parents, and how that affected you.

* Stop looking at others -- me, “H,” whoever -- to “take you away from all this.” Stop moaning about life not turning out the way you expected hardly anybody’s does.

* Deal with your own shit including and especially your lymphoma.

* Your indifference toward me and my feelings has been amplified by your decision to stop wearing your wedding ring and your utterly classless decision to have “H” drive you to our counseling session. And that’s not only indifference -- that’s contempt. That’s you rubbing my nose in all this. And I have done nothing to earn your contempt. You are treating me like shit.

* You’re heading toward a cliff, but you won’t know it until you’ve gone over the edge.

* I will love you forever, but I will not be your Plan B. If somehow you decide to come back to me, it has to be me that you’re coming back to, and our marriage; not “Well, he’ll just be so happy that I’m back with him that he’ll completely kowtow, and he’ll always be ready in case I ever get horny enough, so he’ll do for now.”

* You are not welcome in my home anymore without either our son or me in attendance, or until you choose to call it your home again as well.

* You said you had felt as though you must be “the lucky one.” You’re right: you are the lucky one, because in me you have a husband who is loving, faithful, principled, kind, good to you, a generous lover, devoted to you, and thankful for you. That’s what you have. That’s what you’re throwing away. You’re being a fool.

I spent last night in the company of people -- a family I've known for 35 years -- who, unanimously, kept telling me "it's all her" and "she's gone off the deep end," and that there really is nothing I can do except let it play out; but that maybe I'm being released from prison, just as she thinks *she* is; and that whatever happens, I'll get through it. Obviously it doesn't *feel* like I will, but I know they're right. (Two of the women lost marriages to affairs -- husbands totally lost their minds -- and they're in happy relationships now, so hey, it could happen.)

posts: 90   ·   registered: Dec. 22nd, 2012
id 6152809
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5454real ( member #37455) posted at 4:56 PM on Tuesday, December 25th, 2012

great letter don't send it. it's good that you're getting some of these things off your chest but in her current state of mind do you really think she gives a flying rats ass. the way you have described her in all likelihood she will wind up sharing it with her new significant other and having a casual laugh at your expense.

180 and NC

Stay strong

BH 58, WW 49
DS 31(Mine),SD 29,SS 28(Hers),DS 16 Ours, DGS 11, DGD 8, DGS 3
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 13yrs
"I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone."
― Sophocle

posts: 5670   ·   registered: Nov. 12th, 2012   ·   location: midwest
id 6152874
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doctor49 ( member #15847) posted at 11:22 PM on Tuesday, December 25th, 2012

5454 is right. Don't send it, it won't be heard.

But it's important for you because it maps your values, needs and expectations in R if you consider it.

5454's 180 and NC advice is spot on.

posts: 244   ·   registered: Aug. 19th, 2007
id 6153103
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jimbo25319 ( member #31891) posted at 1:49 AM on Wednesday, December 26th, 2012

She had the OM drop her off at MC? What disrespect for you and your M. IMO your wasting your money and time in MC.

MC is only useful if she's remorseful and committed, she's neither.

Until she's ready to commit to fixing what she broke, it would be a better investment to retain a good D attorney, not usless MC.

posts: 486   ·   registered: Apr. 16th, 2011   ·   location: Maryland
id 6153240
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