SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Your WW did not make a mistake. She made a choice.

She chose to have an A.

You are not responsible for that choice.

She should have chosen to work on your marriage instead of cheating.

Yep, Cheaters handbook 101, and many of us now unfortunately know it chapter and verse. The only gap we are dealing with here concerns her morals and integrity vs decent people.

Also, some cheaters will spew a bunch of crap/lies/excuses to the BS because guess what, THEY WANTED TO HAVE THE AFFAIR, and now have to justify it with blameshift, lies and excuses to explain, and justify it to their broken self... Can't look like a whore you know, so pin it on someone else, compartmentalize, delude themselves, gaslight...

Some like my STBXWW are chickenshit cowards, and have such a high level of entitlement and devoid of a conscious, they will as she has told me has no regret what-so-ever, remorse, or empathy for the pain they have caused for having an A... Pure psychopath, and once you have seen the dead eyes while they transform, go into a rage, turn into a monster, you never forget the chill down your spine... Hell, my STBXWW GOT OFF seeing me cry, upset, etc after D-day.

Best of luck to you my friend, and post here often, it will be your lifeline!

Shockleader, your post really resonated with me, right down to the "dead eyes." Once my husband walked past me, recently, while I was in a ball on floor by the foot of my bed crying and ignored me. Your STBXWW sounds like my WH. Your post is spot on.

, i cant just up and leave and take my daughter to my moms house, if i do my W threatened to call the police.

DM,

Check your laws. In most states she can call the cops till the cows come home, and it won't mean shit!! You are her dad, you are still married, no court orders therefore you CAN just go to you mom's to see family.

She is trying to control you, and the whole situation. She will bully you, if you let her, and she keeps getting away with it. DON'T LET HER!!!

You r a person too, and YOU deserve respect.

Loser??? No way, buddy, just a loving person who found out his S was a shithead.

Please see a lawyer ASAP, and take their advice. Being dependent on her income, at this point in time, may work to your advantage. Something I am sure she isn't thinking about.

Take your time , breathe and let us help guide you. You will be OK, with or without her.

Hugs to you and DD.

I'm only going to say one thing: ditch the bitch. You deserve better.

Very sorry to hear that simplydevastated, and let's hope our, and others actual experiences can guide our friend destroyedman.

The complete lack of empathy I have witnessed, along with the subhuman treatment of myself and DD is really life altering. As an example of taking pleasure in my pain, my STBXWW said in a very condescending, childish, Elmer Fud voice, wearing a shit grin:

"What, aufwaid of the big scarewy world"

When I was upset, and made the mistake of telling her about my fears... That was the last time, ever... The more sad I became, the more rage she had, and seemed to enjoy the drama, histrionics, etc.

Even today, my DD has no idea where her mom has been for three days, "sleeping" overnight somewhere. When DD asked her where she was, STBXWW told her:

"None or your business."

I did not prompt this, as I really don't give two shits and a snap where she is, or what she is doing. She never packs a bag anymore, takes her toothbrush, nothing, so I guess her "none of your business" is cheaterspeak for "I'm at the love nest, fuck you both."

So destroyedman, please, please never think for a second that she won't stoop to insane levels of lying, gaslighting, trickle truth, anger, put-downs, and duplicity... Right now, she is in cover her ass mode, could be miles ahead of you in detachment, and could use this against you. Don't trust anything she says, and damn little of what she does.

All,

thanks so much for your guidance, i feel really lucky that i can hear advice from a lot of people who have real life experience with the same issues. this post is something very important to me now.

yes, when i show that i am upset, angry at something, tell her what i am thinking because it is killing me, she often gets angry at me.

for example, the AP was a chinese guy who was engaged. Today we went to a family school dinner event, for my daughters sake, i really did not want to go as a family. There I saw a beautiful Asian family, and of course what i thought was some terrible reality that she actually could have gotten pregnant with this guy. i was so upset, i wrongly said, "you know it is possible that you can be pregnant with his child, do you really want an asian baby?". WW got very angry and threatened that we should just give up and D. after that, my chest felt tight, i felt like my head was going to explode. I read about the fog, and i think i may be in a fog myself with her.

i am always comparing myself to the OM. I kept thinking how much happier she would be at the family event than me, he can be more sociable, and how she could connect with him better. I don't know why I would even feel that way, in reality if he was there with my daughter, i know at this point i would die inside.

i also read about the 180 stuff, but i suck at it. doing that really goes against how i feel inside, i just want to take my aggression out on her, make her feel my pain.

What you need to understand - is that at this stage with an unremorseful spouse ... your anger is her justification for the A. Every bitter thing you say, she twists into proof that the M sucked, that you are an angry person...

The 180 gives you distance, and leaves her with only her conscience to beat up on... not you!

We all suck at it at first - it takes practice!

The 180 gives you distance, and leaves her with only her conscience to beat up on... not you!

^^^THIS x1000!!

another thing that is really bugging me, i dont know why, but i feel i want to push WW back to the OM. i dont understand the reasons, but what i feel is that, well he is better for her than me, so just go be happy. i really cant explain it, anyone have insights as to why? should i push her back to him? i think that she should experience him in real life, without me, to see what he is really like, past her initial fantasy. insights?

Doesn't that viewpoint kind of fit that saying: If you love something, set it free. If it comes back to you.....(can't remember the rest exactly)

I don't really see anything wrong with your feelings....you aren't trying to control the outcome and *force* her into R with you. As long as you plan to continue taking steps to look out for yourself and you're not just sitting around waiting on her.....it actually sounds very much like the *detachment* that we talk about.

[This message edited by gonnabe2016 at 7:09 PM, March 24th (Sunday)]

Have you considered that this is just a dealbreaker for you?

"Have you considered that this is just a dealbreaker for you?"

good point.

I haven't really considered it consciously anyway, but possibly subconsciously i have. I think i am just to much of an emotional wreck to say "dealbreaker->over". and then there is my daughter also.

I guess I feel that when i get in a better position financially/emotionally, its probably a better time to assess that. but honestly at this point, i don't even feel its the real me typing.

don't even feel its the real me typing

Most likely to be your body's response to the *shock*.

Your WW's bitchy attitude in response to all of this isn't going to do you any favors, so detaching from her is a really good idea.

Give yourself some time. There's no rush for you to make any type of decision right this second. If things devolve and become volatile, take your DD and go to your mom's. Your WW can't stop you and the police can't do anything. You are free to take your DD wherever you want to.

And under no circumstances should you sideline your application. She's taken enough away from you, don't let her take that also.

SL, that is beyond cruel (I sent you a pm).

DM, I hope that our stories help you see that you're not alone and that what your WW is doing is typical for an unremorseful WS. It still hurts, though.

When I was new I posted in this forum about how bad I sucked at the 180. Another SIer replied telling me I was doing a modified 180, more like a 125. That made me laugh (I referenced this same story in another thread here.) Anyway... My point is to look at the list and pick the items you know you can do easily, give it a few days the add something else. Before you know it you'll realize that you don't suck at the 180

Another story from my lovely (read with a healthy dose of sarcasm) husband.

My DS9 and him fight worse than cats and dogs. On numerous occasions I've had to stand between them. Other times he's bent down to look DS9 in the face and say "Does it look like I care?" Most recently, DS9 brought home his report card (Uh, oh). It wasn't great. My WH started yelling at him and said "failure is not an option. There will be no failures in this family." Nice. There's also been times where he's threatened to leave and I've gotten to the point where my only response is "You can't threaten me."

We've been and/or currently are where you are now. All I can say is focus on you and your daughter. It will get better in time.

**Edited to correct typos, I'm typing on my phone. Sorry if I missed some.**

[This message edited by simplydevastated at 10:06 PM, March 24th (Sunday)]

The 180 gives you distance, and leaves her with only her conscience to beat up on... not you!

If the 180 gives you distance, and doesn't leave her with only her conscience to beat up on... then a D sure will.

My FWW took disadvantage of my 180 to prepare her script to her side of the family to prove how irresponsible I was to leave a 3 year old DS and poor defenceless FWW out in the cruel world.

PI also caught her searching for an apartment near OMs way of daily commute when I was doing a 180.

Really she did things she wanted w/o caring for me. She had clearly checked out long before I even came to know about A.

The mention of D got her out of the fog and I was the nicest person in the whole wide world.

Too bad she had already shown who she was and what all she could do, and I wasn't impressed by that.

This time she lost weight, looked horribly ugly and blamed OBS for giving a broken house to our child.

Man talk about being dillusional.

[This message edited by Happydays at 10:54 PM, March 24th (Sunday)]

Morning DM, I wanted to see how you're doing today.

destroyedman,

Thought I'd chime in on this as I'm a betrayed husband too. I feel for you and what you are going through. I'm living it myself.

This is all new and shocking. You are going to go through a lot of emotional ups and downs. You are going to question everything at this point. It's normal and be patient with yourself. You can take some time to figure this out, you don't have to make any decisions right now. Verify with your state first but getting away from the delusional WW may be what you need right now. Getting away from the crazy will help get some of your sense of balance back. Your shocked and confused about a lot of things rightn now, not to mention her lies and blameshifting keep putting you in a tailspin over and over.

More than anything you need to drill it into your head that your WW made a CHOICE. She CHOSE to do what she did. There were may other options but she CHOSE the A. If you have to look in the mirror and repeat that to yourself over and over then do it. You may have issues, your marrriage may have issues, but she made a unilateral CHOICE to have the A.

The 180 is to get some of your sense of self back. I am still working on it and fail at times too. But keep at it. Aside from any children you are the most important person at this point. Do what you need to do to get yourself back. A truly remorseful WW would want you to do that and would help you do that.

So sorry you find yourself here. It's also a good thing too. You can work through this. Stay strong.

Hey DM,

See my tagline?

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone.

"

I’m possibly a bit older than many posters here (reaching 50) and it’s been some years since my d-day (+25 years) but my life and career have been littered with great ups and serious downs. You know – that strange thing called “life”. If I can draw any conclusion to it all then it’s concentrated in that above quote from the Stoic philosopher Epictetus. And I truly believe that in it is the key to working oneself out of serious quandaries like the one you are dealing with.

First of all: The above posters telling you WW actions are a choice are spot on.

Now – I’m guessing your wife didn’t wake up one morning determined to have an affair but at some point in the process she DECIDED very consciously to take it that one step further than her morals and conscience (under normal circumstances) would allow. OK – she probably justified it to herself and no doubt it all rang true to her but still… She DECIDED to have an affair.

I’m a former cop and early on one of my first shifts a veteran told me to notice that no matter what the crime the perpetrator would always justify it: I had to steal that wallet to buy food, he deserved to be shot, it wasn’t rape – she wanted it… It’s the same with your wife; she justifies her affair by rewriting the past to reflect a bad marriage. Irrespective of how the marriage was. In a sense justifying an affair to a bad marriage is comparable to justifying cutting off someone’s head due to bad breath.

Second: This situation can end in two acceptable and “cope able” ways and in one unacceptable way. Reconciliation or divorce are both OK solutions. Both will eventually lead to healing, both are tough and both are attainable (with the correct attitude and effort). The ONLY unacceptable way is to remain married WITHOUT dealing with the infidelity and the underlying issues and consequences.

Unfortunately this third way is the one the WS tend to steer towards and WAY TOO MANY BS accepts and go along with.

Do this and chances are you will experience a new d-day in the next couple of years.

Keep in mind that the ONLY option of the two “desirable” ones (divorce/reconciliation) that YOU can select and implement without WW participation or approval is divorce. Think this through: If your WW does not want to reconcile then no matter what YOU do it won’t make the marriage better. Sort of like you not having had an affair does not make the marriage worse or less bad. It takes total commitment from both of you so unless and until she commits… well… divorce is your only path.

THIS IS IMPORTANT: I am NOT recommending or suggesting you divorce. In fact my advice is totally 100% based on you reconciling. Is that clear? Well – read on and you might think otherwise.

OK – So we have established that the affair is your WW decision. We have established that there are two reasonable ways out of infidelity (D/R). We have established that there is a third unacceptable option (not dealing with the issues). We have established that YOU can control D but that you need WW to go along with R.

Now – for a moment imagine you were dealing with another problem. Instead of infidelity you needed to go on a train-journey to a distant place. The trip has life altering consequences for you (life-saving treatment, life altering career… whatever). Your WW isn’t too keen so you spend some time explaining the trip, the benefits, the reasons… Yet she won’t go. So she drives you to the station and all along the drive you try to convince her… You go buy two tickets and offer her one… She goes to the platform with you and you delay boarding the train to the last call… all the time trying to convince her… She shows interest… or not… You climb onboard the train and gesture her through a window to come… She refuses. The train pulls out of the station and you see her slowly disappearing…

In a sense that’s where you are right now. YOU have to set off out of infidelity. YOU can offer your WW a path with you but at some point she has to jump on board. At some point you reach a crossroad on your journey out of infidelity where your WW joins you or your ways part.

Right now you are some way off that point. Right now you are basically still at home realizing you have to make that journey. But you better start planning and packing for it (rhetorically)

What I suggest is the following:

Always keep in mind that divorce is a possible outcome. Therefore knowing about divorce is a powerful tool. Look up and read about division of assets, debts, custody, child-support… and all other aspects of D in your state. In reality D is a relatively fair deal; best proven by the fact that normally both partners feel screwed after a divorce. But the nightmare stories you hear about losing everything in D and all that tend to be grossly exaggerated. But then – you are not planning on divorcing: you are simply getting to know your options.

Tell your wife that she is totally free to see OM. Tell her that if she truly thinks you are so bad a husband she is totally free to see OM, separate or act as single. BUT NOT AS YOUR WIFE.

Tell her (and this is an extremely powerful statement) that you have realized one thing: That discovering about the affair had been extremely painful and that the thought of the marriage possibly being over is extremely hard for you BUT you have also realized that SHARING her is immensely worse that the possibility of losing her. That you refuse to share her and that she is totally free to do whatever she wants. BUT if she wants to be in the marriage then it’s as your WIFE and that requires total fidelity.

It’s her call. You aren’t forbidding her to have affairs, she can do the local fire-station for all you care but IF she wants to be your wife she needs to commit to the marriage.

Then you tell her that until and unless she verbally commits to the marriage you will simply assume the marriage is over.

If she commits to the marriage then the two of you will have to do IMMENSE work to reconcile, including MC, IC, regaining of trust… But if she doesn’t then you will simply assume that the marriage is dead and you will start the actions of burying it.

Remove all your WW excuses and complaints.

You a bad husband? OK – Sorry she feels that way but if she doesn’t think you can change then that’s fine – the marriage is dead.

You can’t afford to divorce? Yes you can, D’s can be done cheap if there is limited conflict.

You won’t see your daughter again. Yes I will – there are rules and laws about custody. We can be great co-parents without being friends or married.

All the time reiterate: Divorce isn’t what you WANT but if she can’t commit to the marriage then it’s the only option you have.

Eventually she will either jump on that train or remain there standing on the platform. I’m betting the train because in reality only 1 in 5 marraiges dealing with infidelity do end in divorce. But at least YOU will be on your way to healing.

Bigger,

Brilliant!