SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My email to him

I feel there are some things you need to know about me. My flaws. I am aware of them, after all I am my worse critic and you know that. And I’m not saying I won’t ever fix any of this stuff. But when considering planning a life together, you need to take the “present” me not the “potential” me.

im bad at remembering to pay bills

i am a messy cook

i like to eat unhealthy stuff and spoil myself at times

i will never get too fat because my father left my mother for exactly that reason. And it has affected so deeply me in ways I can never explain .I have had multiple eating disorders. If it literally kills me, no one will EVER divorce me bc i am too fat. You have no way of knowing how that feels because it didn’t happen to you, but this is very very serious.

(because you had mentioned something similar as a term for marriage I went to a very dark place and im not sure im out of it yet)

i will be VERY protective of my kids if I’m so lucky to even have one

i will not back down when i perceive you being unnecessarily mean to me. I will stand up for myself.

i dont fold the laundry perfectly

i am not the most ardent cleaner. I will most likely not clean things to your standards

I like to do things fast and efficiently. I am different than you. You take your time and do things thouroughly. I am NOT built that way. My mind does not work that way.

i will be forgetful

i love salt

i love bubbly things to drink it makes my stomach feel better

i don’t love working out

if i have a health problem and medication can help, i will take it.

Sometimes I don’t feel like answering the phone.

I need you to think about whether these things are going to make you angry to a point where your mood is affected for an hour or even a week. (think about how mad you got when I didn’t keep the doorway clear when moving – when I told some people close to me that story they were horrified)

If you see yourself getting angry at these things and them affecting YOUR mental health, then we just arent a match. Plain and simple.

I need you to accept blame. You are not perfect and sometimes you act like you are. Like you can do no wrong and anything that has happened that is wrong has nothing to do with you. You are a master at shifting blame. You need to be accountable. It wont be the end of the world if you did something wrong and you are to blame. I would probably cry tears of joy if I got angry about you for something and you didn’t turn and try to make it my fault. You are seriously so good at that.

You really do need work on yourself and you need to admit that. I need to work on myself too. It scares me so much when you can’t admit things. If you could just admit that you have some problems it would make me feel 1000% better. Because if you know you have issues then I can live with that. But if you have issues (being controlling is one that comes to mind – also needlessly disrepectful) and you deny them completely that is something I cannot live with. not for very long anyway.

i will not be told by another human being what to put in my body or not put in my body – obviously not talking street drugs or drinking 7 days a week

if i feel youre not attempting to really understand me i will shut down. You don’t want that. You will not be happy if im not happy. There is truth to the age old idiom – Happy wife, happy life

i will smack my food at times

I will get animated and talk too loud at times

i will ruin something like a pan or a countertop again

i will be wrong

I will embarrass you at some point

i need a gentle soul who is forgiving patient and understanding and i need you to REALLY think about that and whether you can be that person because i

wont be happy and the relationship will fail at some point if that is not what im getting. I also need to feel that my

opinions, thoughts, feelings are valid and top priority of yours. This is not a wish list, these are my boundaries and cannot go without them. ever.

You have to do some self realization. That you can be very cold hearted and disrespectful. It creates this vicious cycle bc I will not be talked to disrespectfully

without fighting for myself. I saw too much of it growing up and it unleashes a beast inside of me. An extremely mean, angry person with words that can cut deep. I don’t want that to ever come out, but

both myself and my brother and sister are this way. and we can really explode when disrespected or pinned in a corner. I have seen myself do it and I have seen them do it

and it is scary for all involved. you have no idea how we grew up and you need to be considerate of that when your temper flares up.

i will periodically check up on things and verify because my trust was broken and i can never blindly trust again. to anyone. that

part of me is gone for good. You should not get angry about it because it just looks like you have something to hide.

it shouldnt faze you that i want to look at something because there is nothing bad to hide.

Im going to do things you disagree with or dont like. because i am not perfect. unless i slept with your best friend or hurt one of your

loved ones, you cannot berate me, make me feel unimportant, or less than good enough. You can get angry all you want but you need to deal

with how you get angry. and silent treatment is not the way. It is a form of mental control.

you like things done your way and i need to be able to do things my way too- i am different than you and i will want to do things differently

you need to care about what i was missing and what you could do to make me feel happier. not only that, because really i tell you without you even asking asking. But you need to LISTEN to me when

I'm telling you what I need to be happier. Love, patience, unconditional love, honesty, quality time, RESPECT. A public promise that you will love me forever.

I am a smart person and I will know if you are listening to me, working on things, or not. I will react acciordingly.

Please please please. This is IMPORTANT TO ME. This is the rest of our lives we are talking about. Our happiness. Our legacy on the universe. Think about these things.

If you still want to get married after you’ve thought long and hard, then I am available April 29th to go away for however long you would like. I dont want to plan it myself. I dont want to plan my own proposal. That is not how it should go.

This part is up to you and the ball is now entirely in your court. If saying these things, or after thinking about these things – you change your mind. That is entirely ok. What I ask of you is to TELL ME. DO NOT KEEP ME IN THE DARK. iF YOU ARE NOT SURE THAT MARRIAGE IS WHERE YOU WANT TO BE RIGHT NOW THAT IS OK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I do feel that is what you’ve been telling me both directly and indirectly.

What is NOT OK is not telling me that just because you don’t want to lose me. I am ready for the next step, and these are my boundaries. I cant be your girlfriend anymore. Not one more minute. If it scares you to marry me then DON’T. you will be happy without me, please don’t think that you wont. Time heals all wounds.

And I will always have a special place in my heart for you

His response (this is all before the 5 hour conversation) and mom if you are reading this I'm sorry.

You have said a ton in this email so I will try to take things and respond to them the best I can.

I have flaws as well. I am stubborn, fiery, arrogant at times, have a big ego at times, have ocd, I need organization and structure in my life or else I go crazy and won't feel fulfilled or find it easy to relax. I'm ocd about cleanliness and will spend a lot of time getting things the way I like/want them. I am a perfectionist in most everything I do, and this is a big flaw because no one is perfect and everything is imperfect. I try anyway. I get silent at times.

I understand your feelings about your past family history. I can't imagine what that would feel like and I'm sure it affected you deeply. I know this is very serious for you, and I can't really relate, but I can sympathize. While I may not agree that you starve yourself, or it forces you to have an eating disorder, I can see how those emotional feelings would lead you to take drastic measures. I know you already know this, but eating disorders are very serious. They can cause much more damage down the road as compared to the short term benefit a person may think they are getting. I'm sorry if I said anything to you that caused you grief and brought back memories of the past regarding this topic. I didn't mean to take you to a dark place, and I hope I can help bring you back.

I will be most protective of my kids. And I'm sure you will be blessed to have one if not multiple. I don't expect you to back down about something you feel strongly about. It is never my intention to be unnecessarily mean. I do fold laundry and clean to a higher standard than is necessary. But that doesn't mean we are doomed. I'd like to think I'm very efficient in doing things. After all, we run a company pretty darn efficiently. So while you may do things fast and efficient, and I may take my time with certain things and are still efficient, it is mostly because I don't want to do things twice. I would rather find a long term solution to something that is a problem, fix it, and not have to worry about it for awhile. This is how I have always been, and my job has required this of me since I can remember. Again, not problems between us, just different ways of doing things.

I forget things too. The older I get I feel my memory getting worse. I know you love salt, and the only reason I mention anything about it to you is because I have "personal knowledge and experience" with people in my family who cannot eat salt anymore. My dad, my grandmother, and my Dad's cousin in Turkey all cannot eat salt anymore. I'm not saying that will happen to you, but if it does you may be very disappointed to hear a doctor tell you that you can't salt your food. I'm sure it would be devastating knowing how much you like it. The only reason I say ANYTHING to you about food or exercise or whatever is because I want the best for you. It is in my nature to want to look out for people that I love. I am the same way with my parents, my sisters, and well pretty much my family because I don't really say much to anyone else. Well maybe Jason, but everyone messes with him because he's so out of shape he can't keep up with the crew skiing/snowboarding.

I try not to take medications if I can help it. I do like to workout, play bball, go skiing, play golf, play tennis, etc. If you tell me I'm not putting you as a priority because I like to do these things, I get defensive and feel you're being controlling. In the same way that you feel I'm being controlling for saying something to you about eating right or working out. My solution to this, and I apparently didn't explain it very eloquently, was to do these things together sometimes so we can spend more time together and satisfy your feelings and mine. I can't make you do anything, it was a suggestion.

Regarding the door topic, we were there helping you move and I asked you a favor to please don't put things in the walkway and keep the door propped open so that it is easier for us. If you asked me to do you a simple favor similar to that, I wouldn't ignore it a little while later and do the opposite. I don't think you did it on purpose, and you may have forgotten, ok, but it did come across as selfish that you wouldn't want to make it easy for us to help you move out by ignoring my request. I don't think this is a big deal in the long run and it shouldn't be.

I've admitted many times I'm not perfect. I do make mistakes and I am at fault sometimes. I feel I am accountable.

I need you to not treat me as if I'm a parent sometimes. You are very good at talking back and throwing a few digs in. Maybe its your defense mechanism or you're used to it from your family history, but it comes across as really disrespectful. I know you're going to say, well you treat me like a child sometimes and talk down to me. And my response to that would be I don't ever mean to treat you as a child nor do I consider you less important than me or any other "lesser" you fill in the blank. If I say something that you interpret as if I'm speaking to you as a subordinate, ask yourself why I would say what I'm saying. I don't ever want to make you feel less than something, and I always have your best interest in my heart and mind.

So if a doctor told you to take "folic acid" during pregnancy because it is good for your unborn you wouldn't do it?

Same thing with me. If you're not trying to understand me, I will shut down too. And probably become silent. You don't want that either as I won't be happy and you won't be happy. Happy husband, happy life.

I will mention to you if you're smacking you food at times. I would want you to tell me if I am doing the same so I can stop.

I will mention to you if you're being a little loud at times. I would want you to tell me if I am being loud too.

I will make mistakes and break something or damage something too. This is human nature and it isn't the end of the world when something happens.

I will be wrong too. And I will embarrass you at times as well.

I need a sweet, kind, forgiving, trusting, thoughtful and loving person. I need you to think about whether you can be those things to me. If I don't feel I am getting those things I will shut down and the relationship will suffer. Similarly, I feel that my opinions and thoughts and feelings should be important you, at the same level as your own. Not less, not more.

You have to realize that not everyone is out to get you. And that not everyone has had a childhood that is exactly like yours. Being cold and disrespectful to someone is all about the other persons interpretation of what is cold and/or disrespectful. I don't intentionally try to disrespect you, or act cold to you. If you are having those feelings, it is important to say something and try to figure out why you are feeling I am doing that. For someone that I love, I wouldn't blow you off if you told me there was something I said that you took as being disrespectful. We may disagree on what is respectful and disrespectful, but we would avoid a confrontation and avoid "unleashing the beast". No one wants that.

Checking up on me periodically is a form of distrust. If you say this will never change, I have a problem with that. The reason I would get upset about this is not because there is something to hide. Its about the fact that I don't want to live my entire life with someone knowing they feel the need to check up on me until the day I die. If I'm the father of your child, there isn't anything I wouldn't do for you or our child. I don't believe in getting divorced, it is one of my biggest fears.

This is not the part that is up to me. You have your conditions/boundaries and I have mine. This is a choice we should make together with promises to each other to work on the shortcomings of our relationship. I'm not asking you to plan your own proposal. That's ridiculous. That isn't how it should go.

The things I want in this relationship are Love, respect, trust, forgiveness, being considerate, and letting the unimportant stuff go. Understand that we are a team. I'm not out to make you miserable. I need to feel that mutual respect that you have my back; in everything. And I will do the same.

You say time heals all wounds. Do you really feel that way? You know I will ALWAYS have a special place in my heart for you too. You're the only person I have ever fallen "in love" with. I know we both have things to think about. I have said I'd like to let bygones be bygones, start anew, begin a future together and take the next step in our relationship because I truly believe love conquers all. But I do question now is that what YOU want? It seems from this email that you are stating "conditions" for marriage, not any different than the things I was saying to you. While you do try and explain your personality and why you do things the way you do, there are points where you come across as dictating to me what I need to/should do or else. And if those things aren't accomplished, then you won't be happy, and I won't be happy, and we will fail. I understand each of us have our wants/wishes/boundaries, and we are both different people. But "laying down the law" as it comes across in some parts of your email is like already accepting defeat and setting things up for failure. I wish your view was more positive, but given our history I'm not sure if that's a pie in the sky wish. I never dreamed we would be in this situation. I'm sorry for all that I have done to bring us to where we are now, and I hope that we can work through these things and move onto happier times because we both deserve that. With love. K

If anyone else has recommendations for my situation let me know.

My advice is not to do anything, but sit with it. Please don't contact him, meet with him, message him, listen to him. Let him be. It's the only way you are going to begin to heal. He will make you question every decision you have made if you do. No contact.

You are going to swirl for a while, it's ok.

S.W.I.R.L:

S.W.I.R.L. is an acronym which stands for the five stages of abandonment: Shattering, Withdrawal, Internalizing, Rage, and Lifting – introduced in JOURNEY FROM ABANDONMENT.

1: SHATTERING – Your relationship is breaking apart. Your hopes and dreams are Shattered. You are devastated, bewildered. You Succumb to despair and panic. You feel hopeless and have Suicidal feelings. You feel Symbiotically attached to your lost love, mortally wounded, as if you’ll die without them. You are in Severe pain, Shock, Sorrow. You’ve been Severed from your primary attachment. You’re cut off from your emotional life-line.

2: WITHDRAWAL – painful Withdrawal from your lost love. The more time goes on, the more all of the needs your partner was meeting begin to impinge into your every Waking moment. You are in Writhing pain from being torn apart. You yearn, ache, and Wait for them to return. Love-withdrawal is just like Heroin withdrawal – - each involves the body’s opiate system and the same physical symptoms of intense craving. During Withdrawal, you are feeling the Wrenching pain of love-loss and separation – - the Wasting, Weight loss, Wakefulness, Wishful thinking, and Waiting for them to return. You crave a love-fix to put you out of the WITHDRAWAL symptoms.

3: INTERNALIZING – you Internalize the rejection and cause Injury to your self esteem. This is the most critical stage of the cycle when your wound becomes susceptible to Infection and can create permanent scarring. You are Isolated, riddled with Insecurity, self- Indictment and self-doubt. You are preoccupied with ‘If only regrets’ – - If only you had been more attentive, more sensitive, less demanding, etc. You beat yourself up with regrets over the relationship and Idealize your abandoner at the expense of your own self Image.

4: RAGE – the turning point in the grief process when you begin to fight back. You attempt to Reverse the Rejection by Refusing to accept all of the blame for the failed relationship, and feel surges of Rage against your abandoner. You Rail against the pain and isolation you’ve been in. Agitated depression and spurts of anger displaced on your friends and family are common during this turbulent time, as are Revenge and Retaliation fantasies toward your abandoner. Your Outer Child is spurred by abandonment rage and becomes very active and potentially desctuctive. New Outer Child patterns may set in.

5: LIFTING – your anger helped to externalize your pain. Gradually, as your energy spurts outward, it Lifts you back into Life. You begin to Let go. Life distracts you and gradually Lifts you out the grief cycle. You feel the emergence of strength, wiser for the painful Lessons you’ve Learned. And if you’re engaged in the process of recovery, you get ready to Love again.

A word of caution: When you Lift, it is important to take your feelings with you. Otherwise you Lose connection with yourself once again, creating an internal barrier to others.

You S.W.I.R.L. through the stages over and over within an hour, a day, a month, sometimes a period of years – - cycles within cycles – - until you emerge out the end of the funnel-shaped cloud, a changed person, better able to find love than before.

http://www.abandonment.net/swirl/

My other bit of advice is to read - a LOT. Read here, read relationship books, self-help articles, read Baggage Reclaim.

A few ones to get you started:

http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/relationship-insanity-understanding-why-you-feel-tempted-to-go-back-and-repeat-your-pattern-with-your-pain-source/

http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/it-started-out-so-great-why-cant-he-go-back-to-being-that-guy/

http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/when-someone-keeps-presses-the-reset-button-on-your-relationship/

http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/standing-by-your-broken-man-part-one/

(I have more if you need them!)

Also, keep yourself busy. Find some new activities to fill your time. Concentrate on you now instead of him.

You can get through this.

Hugs!

-JD

lol, all his stated imperfections are thinly veiled brags.

Then he calls you fat.

Then he asks you if you think you can measure up.

Man, this dude must have a trillion dollars and a penis that can sing a Sammy Hagar and Louis Armstrong duet because Barney fucking Stinson would punch him in the mouth for being such an ass.

@JustDone you had me in tears. Because you just put into words the way I've felt for a long time and couldn't articulate. With the exception of a few items, I've been feeling one or more of those stages at any given minute, week, month for the past 2+ years. Except not much on the "L" part. To say I have been on a roller coaster is an understatement. (just look at my past week). I've been feeling this way since we reconciled. I was never able to fully forgive and trust him.

And by the way that should read "if anyone has any BOOK recommendations". I dont plan to do anything with regards to contacting him whatsover. I've done this before, in Jan we didn't talk for 4 weeks. I was just looking for books that are empowering and I will read all your links. Thank you so much for the info.

@Stillgoing - you had me laughing. I thought the same thing about his imperfections and I didn't even realize he called me fat! He's never come out and said "you're fat". All the countless times he discussed health with me I asked if he was saying I was fat ( I mean I'm a woman) and he'd always so 'no'. But maybe he does think I'm fat. wow

susp, I'm not going to read your latest round of emails because I know they represent the same abuse cycle he just put you through a few days back.

He dangles marriage in front of you like a carrot, you discover him in a lie and stand up to him and he whisks the marriage-carrot away and tries to cut your feet out from under you to show you your proper place in his mind - beneath him. When you show your vulnerability, he responds with bragging and insults to keep you in your place.

We cried apologized to each other for things said, done, hints left unsaid etc. and said i wouldn't wait for him , but if he changed his mind on a future with me to contact me.

Seriously, after all this you're still waiting for him to propose? Susp, he'll dangle marriage in front of you for ages, and even if you did get engaged, he'd punish every one of your normal quirks and reactions with "maybe I'm changing my mind" and "maybe we should call off the engagement..."

This cycle, these arguments, his lies and manipulation (he told you you can't even believe your own EYES at the gym! Clearly he wasn't there, or else he'd have seen you walk past him 3 times) this dark cloud you wake up with - will be your life.

After having been in a relationship with someone like him, I know the breakup is the very worst. As terrible as the relationship is, the breakup is more painful than you'd expect. I think I drove my friends half nuts when I was trying to break up with my abusive ex. It took far longer than I care to remember. I used to write "You cannot marry him. You will not marry him" in my journal because I was scared that after a particularly exhausting fight I would mistake the calm after the storm for actual peace or love and agree to marry him. In my rational mind I knew it was the worst thing I could do. But being in that kind of relationship warps your perspective. People like him work very hard to warp your perspective, to better keep you under their control. So climbing out of that hole is a psychological as well as emotional feat of strength. It takes a lot of perseverance. And in the "fight stage" of the abuse cycle, you don't have a lot of extra energy to do good things for yourself.

What is he doing to address his infidelity and dishonesty, by the way?

Circe - I know. I thought about that after we got off the phone . Shouldn't have said it. Shouldn't have thought it. I understand how insane it sounds. That's about all I can say. I still have feelings for him, I cannot lie. I guess there will always be a part of me that wishes he is enlightened one day. it's "pie in the sky" to use his words.

As far as what he's done as far as the infidelity. Huh? Nothing. I asked for passwords and wouldn't provide. He explains it in many of the emails I have from him. (Even the last one I just posted) He doesn't want to live his life with someone checking up on him. Says it's not healthy. So i got the passwords myself.

Funnily enough I had them for years and finally admitted I had them this week. He immediately changed them when we got off the phone. Then a few hours later texts me the new passwords. One for Find my iphone and for his hotmail account. I am still shaking my head at why he provided that.

I asked for public declaration on facebook, which I got. but I have since deleted my facebook.

And I wanted to meet his family which I have now many times.

I guess the only thing he's done is "not" do anything wrong again. No calling or flirting with girls ,no representing that hes single when he's not....etc

and dishonesty? what dishonesty? hes not dishonest at all!! And will never ever admit that he is.

[This message edited by suspicious247 at 7:52 PM, April 6th (Saturday)]

A few more things to read:

The Abusive and Semi-Abusive Relationship:

http://www.gettingpastyourbreakup.com/gettingpastyourpast/2011/09/the-abusive-and-semi-abusive-relationship-3/

How NOT to Apologize when you have Seriously Fucked Up:

(Does this seem familiar to you? )

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/manipulator/apology.shtml

The Direction Of Happiness -

Leaving A Relationship:

http://www.dailyom.com/articles/2011/26692.html

15 Reasons to Run for Your Life:

http://www.marcandangel.com/2012/11/14/15-reasons-to-run-for-your-life/

A Message to Women From a Man: You Are Not "Crazy":

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/yashar-hedayat/a-message-to-women-from-a_1_b_958859.html

Man v. Mouse: “in sickness and in health,” as long as we are healthy:

http://www.lovefraud.com/2013/04/04/man-v-mouse-in-sickness-and-in-health-as-long-as-we-are-healthy/

Why you don't have to have sex to cheat:

http://www.today.com/id/18039274#.UWDBTI75KbA

My Dearest Bananahead…:

http://www.gettingpastyourbreakup.com/gettingpastyourpast/2012/09/my-dearest-bananahead/#more-12927

Keep going....

Hugs!!

Suspi. Many of us have mentioned abuse and the cycle of abuse. Have you done any reading about that at all? It's a quick google search away.

And your wannabe-WF is a manipulative, self-absorbed, whiny dick. Just sayin'.

@Circe--> your words were amazing.

[This message edited by gonnabe2016 at 8:21 PM, April 6th (Saturday)]

Yes I have done nothing but read intensively since last night. Things are really starting to sink in. He's sick. I can't fix him. There is no solution and that is a f ing shame. I'm continuing to read. Feeling so stupid

Circe I second that, I commented to my mom that your earlier post moved me to tears

You know, Suspicious, I do think you need a trip away. Away from him.

Listen, you're making this much more didficult than it needs to be. You obviously don't see it, but it's very plain to see. You two are not well suited for each other. And, my God, you don't see this either, but your boyfriend is an asshole. I can barely stand to read what he writes to you. I read a few lines and just say, "Jesus, this guy is so full of shit."

He would be a terrible husband, unless he found some way to marry himself. He would be an even worse father, because being a good father requires giving yourself (your time) to your children, not making them do what you like to do, so they can be lucky enough to get some of your time and attention.

Your boyfriend may be rich, but he is also poor in so many ways.

I hope the best for you. Winning him, is only losing your very soul.

Suspi. You're not stupid. You were manipulated. There's a difference.

Re-read the emails that you posted earlier. Only this time, think of the game 'hot potato'. THAT is what he did. He didn't set the potato that you threw down, cut it open and dig into it.....he threw it right back at you.

He doesn't listen. I'll bet that if you really think about it, you'll realize that every conversation that you've had with the guy is an unproductive one. Heck if you read his email response to you on its own, it doesn't even seem that it's *in response* to anything at all.

He sucks.

The more you engage, the more he reels you back. You've gone from, "I don't want to marry you. Don't contact me" to, basically, "Please love me. Please love me!"

You're caught up in a toxic cycle--- one that you are making the dangerous mistake of confusing with passion and love when, in fact it all about controlling you. A site I found helpful is outofthenfog.net--it's for people who love someone with personality disorder.

The book most helpful to me was The Journey from Abandonment to Healing by Susan Anderson; I believe she's the originator of the SWIRL theory.

[This message edited by solus sto at 11:23 PM, April 6th (Saturday)]

You offered up every insecurity you ever had to him, and he offered up restrained responses to them.

If his responses were genuine, they would be unrestrained. They weren't. You gave him emotion, and he gave you "logic." You have no defense for your feelings, whereas he can come up with infinite ways that he is being logical.

That's the endgame of a lot of WS behavior. When confronted with being in a relationship with someone who isn't as sick as them or come up with reasons why their behavior is wrong, they hit at the lowest level. The reptilian brain operates on that level; communication and therapy don't. That's why revenge affairs are equally understandable and repugnant to me.

This guy is hitting you where he knows it will hurt most, and trying to make it seem like he's helping you, or collaborating. He's not.

[This message edited by veritas at 11:42 PM, April 6th (Saturday)]

He's sick. I can't fix him.

I disagree about the sick part. Not all selfish, self-obessessed perfectionist, arrogant assholes are sick. When it comes to marrying a man like him, I believe it would be a huge mistake.

I don't mean this as a 2x4, but please stop making yourself vulnerable to this man. I had to skim your email because I felt sick that you confessed your "faults" to him. That is nothing but ammo to him. It gives him more to hurt and control you with!

I suggest that you work on respecting yourself. Once you do, you will realize you deserve a man who feels lucky to have you, not one who makes you feel like you have to aplogologize for yourself.

Suspi,

You wrote:

We left it that he is still unsure of marriage (our fighting being his big holdup - which makes a hell of a lot more logical sense then my attitude towards health. It ended amicably and mutually. We cried apologized to each other for things said, done, hints left unsaid etc. and said i wouldn't wait for him , but if he changed his mind on a future with me to contact me.

I'll say it again. His lack of a proposal/intent to marry you isn't because you're fat, you're not committed to health, or because y'all argue.

He hasn't proposed because he doesn't want to marry you.

His interest is in controlling you and seeing how long he can play this game with you. How many times can he keep reeling you back in? How many times more until you're the totally broken person he needs to be in control of?

Right now you're still fighting him and his control. Thus he has no interest in marrying you.

Make no mistake about this. He wants you broken. Think of marriage to him as a cult. He wants to completely break you and then retrain you the way he wants you to be. No independent thought, no fight left in you ... no resistance to him doing whatever the fuck he wants.

Then and only then will he even seriously consider marrying you.

He hasn't proposed because he doesn't want to marry you.

This isn't rocket science here. If he was really that into you and wanted to marry you, he'd have made some move in that direction by now.

You need to stop talking to this guy. You need to stop letting him twist your words around. You need to stop letting him abuse you. Stop letting him try to break you.

He isn't going to change. You cannot change him. You cannot fix him. And unless you're willing to surrender everything that make you, you ... you cannot be what he wants you to be.

He doesn't listen. I'll bet that if you really think about it, you'll realize that every conversation that you've had with the guy is an unproductive one. Heck if you read his email response to you on its own, it doesn't even seem that it's *in response* to anything at all.

THIS!! You hit the nail on the head (not to say all the other posts didn't) but I have NEVER and I mean NEVER felt our conversations were productive and we've talked for thousands of hours. 5 hours was our longest but it wasn't unusual for us to talk 1-2 hours on the phone. Going in circles. The guy has been dirving me crazy for a long time. And he couldn't even respond to my faults on the phone he had to go home and have my email in front of him and respond by email. I even told him I dont want an email, and asked why he cant just speak from the heart. And he says I wrote him an email, so he needs to write an email back. huh ok. whatever

And I GET that it is really over. And he is an asshole and treats me like shit. I don't want a future with him anymore. I knew he had these issues before, and I was willing to live with them because I loved him and wanted someone to love me. Its dawning on me that I need to cut him off completely. Forever.

I almost want to let him know so he doesn't hold out hope or try to act like a 'good' boy because there's a chance of reconciling with me. He mentioned on our last convo he was looking at rings an proposal locations and I really don't want him to surprise me with anything. Is sending him a text or email saying there's no hope of us getting back together and I'm moving on a bad move?

I just don't want him showing up at my house with a ring and tears in his eyes. That sounds like my worst nightmare at this point in time.

I have a feeling I have not heard the last from him and he will make this break Impossible. This is a long road ahead. Impossible to break free and won't take no for an answer. (I know from experience - have tried to leave many many times)

He has all my furniture and clothes in his warehouse. And my rommate's mattress. Now we dont need these things until October but it is best to get them now or wait until then?

I almost want to let him know so he doesn't hold out hope or try to act like a 'good' boy because there's a chance of reconciling with me. He mentioned on our last convo he was looking at rings an proposal locations and I really don't want him to surprise me with anything. Is sending him a text or email saying there's no hope of us getting back together and I'm moving on a bad move?

I just don't want him showing up at my house with a ring and tears in his eyes. That sounds like my worst nightmare at this point in time.

I have a feeling I have not heard the last from him and he will make this break Impossible. This is a long road ahead. Impossible to break free and won't take no for an answer. (I know from experience - have tried to leave many many times)

What follows is going to be a 2x4.

Seriously? After 8 pages and nearly 160 message of the same advice (NO CONTACT) you're asking if you should contact him to make sure he knows it is over?

Really? Are you serious?

Look you don't strike me as a stupid woman, so stop acting like one.

Has contacting him to clarify things, or reassert yourself ever worked? Ever? No. It hasn't.

Because HE DOESN'T LISTEN TO YOU. He hears what he wants to hear and he does what he wants to do ... because up until now that has worked. You have shown him that that's the acceptable way to treat you.

DO NOT CONTACT HIM. Period.

This isn't rocket science.

You think you've not heard the last of him?

Then take the advice you've been given and change your damn phone number. So it is hard to change it? So what? If you really don't want him to contact you and you really don't want him to show up crying and begging you to marry him (which I think is what you do actually want to see happen) ... then make it clear that it is over by making it harder to contact you.

My god. You've been given the same advice page after page after page ... take it already.

Edited to add:

The only contact you should have with this guy is to get your stuff - and you should do that immediately. Don't wait until later as that only opens the door for more contact.

[This message edited by SouthernGal at 9:27 AM, April 7th (Sunday)]