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I told her if she texts him at our house I will not tolerate this in-my-face disrespect and in-house is promptly over and we tell the kids. If she leaves to see him, in-house is over and we tell the kids.

Whoa....so, you're concerned about how you tell the kids, but you are using that telling them as a THREAT if she doesn't do what you want?

Please abandon this thinking. Just tell the kids already. They are not stupid, obviously...and the longer they witness the anger and agression in the house, but dont get an explanation, the worse it will be for them.

Don't wait for her....take care of your kids FIRST. Please.

Hello, Friends,

So my wife is coming home after spending the night at the separation apartment. She wants to go back tonight.

She wants to have another "talk" with me.

I am utterly emotionally drained at this point. I don't want to have any more "talks" in which we go around and around the same shit--while she is still in contact with the AP.

She will want to talk yet again about "us" and how our relationship can be improved, how our "dynamic" could change so we can start over.

Again, I am really done with this.

I want to tell her simply, "I cannot talk about us until I know he is utterly out of your and our lives."

Any other way I can express it? Advice?

You cannot lead a horse to water. You just can't. The bottom line is that she knows what she needs to do. She is CHOOSING to make the wrong decision.

All you need to do is let go. Do not talk to her any longer about this situation at all.

Exactly. Don't hold out any hope to her that you and she can have a relationship. Don't agree to have the talk. Tell her to stay away. I still hear you bargaining with yourself and her. Let time and distance do their healing work on you and your children, without her. And maybe then you'll get the strength you need to divorce her.

Channel Grumpy Cat here, Dad. Whatever she says to you, your response is:

"No."

Tell her no. You and the kids are emotionally drained and need a break from the drama.

If you feel the need to throw her a bone, Tell her after if you see a good solid month of physical and mental no contact with OM and introspective progress through individual counseling you will reconsider communication.

Until then the answer, for your children's sake, is a hard line "no" talk or negotiation about the relationship.

From now on strictly business about kids and finances. Through email and text.

Thanks, everyone!

We just had the talk. We hammered out coparenting schedule and drew up the "contract" with regard to our interactions: little and only limited to kids and business.

And, crucially, I made it clear: "I will not have any discussions about us with Him in your life. Until and unless he is gone from our lives forever there will be no "us." And don't tell me "I am ready to end it with him." You need to have already ended with him.

I didn't say "NC for at least a month" or anything like that.

In any case she did not argue or say anything. She said "I understand."

Good enough for me for now.

I am looking at this as IT. We are done.

My task: 180, detach.

Oh, and one parting dagger of manipulation: "do you see I'm wearing my ring?" I am still your wife.

Whatever.

I will be needing your support through this.

Thank you.

You have all our support, Abbondad. You've just done a very hard thing, even though it's the right thing. Let this be the last big talk you have with her for a while, and really concentrate on focussing all of your thoughts away from her. This will hurt, you will feel lonely and lost, but we will all be here for you, and many of us have felt the same pain.

Way to go!!!!! Keep it simple with her and let the manipulation slide of your back. Recognize it for what it is. A desperate attempt at returning to the past.

Proud of you!!

You have our support and you are free to PM, post or vent. The place you find yourself standing in is a very tough one and we will help you through. You are stronger than you know and believe it or not, she already knows just how strong you are.

Great! Now just stick to the NC and you will be AMAZED at how much better you will feel.

I told my WXH that we had absolutely nothing to talk about as long as he was with the OW. And we don't. Just D stuff (while the D was being done), and kid stuff, which isn't much since our kids are in college.

Lately, he's been trying to talk to me...he's unhappy with everything in his life. (D Day was 18 months ago and we haven't lived together in over a year). I "told" him I was sorry to hear that, but I didn't want to talk to him. He is just not my business anymore, and my life is sooooooo much better without him now!

Keep going on the NC. It really does get better. Oh, and talk to your kids!

OK, quick advice needed. WW is freaking out about separating and leaving the children and how to tell the children and when to tell the children. Freaking out is not clinical enough. She is in the grips of major panic attacks and horror of abandonment.

(I think we have down the "what" part: timeout for mommy and daddy, we love each other, we love you, none of this is your fault, etc.).

So:

We are ruling out telling them tonight and then she just splits for good. They will take it too much like abrupt abandonment.

What about telling them tomorrow, after mommy (with the help of short term meds) has hopefully collected herself, and then she moves out later in the week?

If so, how many days after we tell them should she move out?

I know there is no perfect answer, but I have read that at least a few days should elapse between telling them and the mom or dad moving out for separation.

Another possibility that I broached. She is going on long term meds. Not sure which ones. She is already on ADs, so we are thinking mood stabilizers.

I suggested that perhaps she could wait until they kick in and then her insanity could abate where we can tell them, she could go, and not have a complete nervous breakdown?

Any ideas?

I know, "Just do it, and fuck her" is on the lips of many of you; be the strong one, etc. But I just can't expose them to their mother having a serious breakdown in front of them as daddy assures them everything will be OK.

They will be traumatized enough.

Thank you!

Abbondad, this is the roughest road. There is no right answer, unfortunately no matter when you do it, it will not be easy. I see a lot of "we" in your post. This is hard for there is no more "we". You have to do what is best for you and your kids. She has already established that she cannot. You may have to do this alone as she is already avoiding this like the plague. You have this in you and you already know that with her there it has the potential to be far more traumatic for the kids. I am so sorry for what you are dealing with.

The mommy is sick, she needs to get some help to get better. We won't be seeing her as much as we used to, but don't worry, I am here for you and we both love you. You did nothing wrong, life is just different when you grow up. You will see mommy on these days . You won't change schools, lose your friends, move to a new house etc..... The only thing that will change is that mommy will live somewhere else.

Hope that gives you something to start with for the hardest conversation you will ever have in life.

Show that you are reliable, strong and that this is not breaking you.

After they go to bed, crack open a beer and go hide somewhere in house where they can't hear you cry. (the shower is good for that too)

Do NOT tell them that you love each other when it is so demonstrably not true. I question why you think it would be abrupt when she has already been spending so much time at the other place already.

Yep, this was the toughest part for me too. Ice cold beer and an extremely hot shower. Sobs muffled in a towel.

Strength

gently - She is manipulating you. She should not be your worry anymore.

So she is having panic attacks, OK well she's getting knocked off her fence, and had her cake ripped out of her hand. She lacks the ability to pick it up herself or go find a ladder to get back up there.

Do not let her "anxiety, depression, mental illness" (I say this in quotations because she has been able to manipulate you all along with her behaviors associated with this)stop you from protecting yourself and your kids from anymore hurt.

Your kids know what's up, the longer you wait to tell them the less credible you are going to seem to them. They need one parent that they feel they can be honest with and express their concerns with.

Just keep up the 180 with her, no more discussions, about how she feels. If she is having an anxiety attack, or overwhelmed with fear/panic, then she needs to contact her Dr, her Priest, or her Friends.

NOT YOU, make this clear to her. I am willing to bet the panic attacks will be lessened or disappear altogether when she can no longer get your attentions with them.

(((((and strength )))))

"I cannot talk about us until I know he is utterly out of your and our lives."

It sounds as if you are saying to your wife,

"Go away and live in your apartment and conduct the life of a single woman, including continuing the affair with the current OM, and when the affair finally peters out, come home and we will reconcile".

The promise to reconcile when she has totally ended the affair with the OM is very strange - sort of giving her a license to cheat.

You should deal with the issue during your current discussions; totally commit or divorce. Anything less invites abuse of your obviously generous nature. There is no reason why you can't settle this crisis right now; one way or the other. I see you are running out of patience, but your wishy washy refusal to make hard decisions is at the root of this mess. Too much drama. Mend the marriage or bring down the axe.

No. Do not do this to your kids. You need to sort this, now, and be strong for them. They are in the middle of a storm now and you need to calm it. The only way that can happen is if she moves out. Now. Not days later. She will still see them. YOu will be divorced, separate parents. It's sad but it happens. You NEED to make this ok for them.

and please remember, this is NOT about 'we love each other'... you both love them - but they need to go through this without the confusion of thinking you'll get back together.

ok, I'm going to hit you with a2x4 here AD...

it's time to man the fuck up. There is NO MORE "WE" in your life. There is a you, and there is a her.

SHE is moving out, so that you can heal from the destructive nuclear bomb she dropped on your lives. She is moving out, and there is no more "us" "we" whatever. Done.

You must find the strength to be the sane and dependable one for your kids now. They are going to need you - yes. But to trickle truth your kids is NOT the way to go dude!!

Tell them the truth. Mommy is moving out because she and Daddy cannot live together anymore. Tell them why - Mommy hurt you and you need to live apart now because of that.

They deserve the truth. You cannot keep doing this to them, or to YOU. She is no longer your worry - let her OM worry about her mental stability.

And if she's truly THAT off her rocker, then you'd better get your ass a court order involving some sort of supervised visitation or something. Otherwise you are allowing her to damage your kids even further. Take charge dammit! You can do this!