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When I attended a support group for abused wives last year something the leader said stuck with me. She said we should NEVER feel ashamed for surviving, we should NEVER feel bad for doing whatever we needed to do to survive.

Let me say that again.

We should never feel ashamed for surviving. We should never feel bad for doing whatever we needed to do to survive.

When I was raped at gunpoint when I was 19 I told him that I loved him. I did it because he threatned to kill me if I didn't. So I told him I loved him. I felt horribly about that! He used the fact that I'd told him I loved him as justification for a sick, predator/stalker type relationship for many months afterwards. I felt so guilty, I was so ashamed, I went along with whatever he proposed so that he wouldn't tell my parents. I carried the guilt of that rape & sick "relationship" for years & years afterwards. Did I lead him on? Was I somehow at fault? After all, I'd told him I loved him...

Now I can look back on my 19-year old self and be proud of her. She was terrified. She was angry. She was violated. But she survived. The most important thing is she survived.

I survived.

Sweetie, you have survived. I'm proud of you. Now you're realizing there is some damage done that needs to be healed. I'm proud of you. That takes guts to admit. It takes even more guts to make a phone call, set an appointment, then drive to the appointment. I'm proud of you.

Even if you can't see your progress, will you trust that there are people here who do? We're not lying to you. We see progress in you. We see courage. We see your heart. Will you trust us when we tell you that counseling & talking this through is going to be the key to your spiritual freedom?

I want to thank you ladies for being my support "group" I will try to reply to as much as possible... it might take me a while.. specially to heartless bytchh (there was a lot to reply too lol) It really means a lot that you have all taken the time to stop and show that you care.

We should never feel ashamed for surviving. We should never feel bad for doing whatever we needed to do to survive.

Nature_girl just saying this phrase chokes me up. I know I am so far out of touch with some of my feelings. I have watched a couple of episodes of "I survived" recently. They always have one story about a rape. I would listen to the stories and wish they happened to me because then I would have something to "cry" about.

I still have been unable to tell anyone, except SO, IRL what happened to me. I can't really say the R word right now.

I know I have been running from a lot of memories that I don't want to know what they really mean.....

ugh, I really have to get some sleep now so I will have to finish this up with you tomorrow.

[This message edited by courageous at 10:15 PM, June 16th (Sunday)]

I'm still struggling with bad dreams. I feel like I'm jumping between two emotions lately. I'm happy one minute and sad the next.

My next/ first appointment is the monday after tomorrow (the 24th). I'm really afraid... I have all of these emotions and I don't know what I would do if they act unconcerned and bothered by me wasting their time.

I was a little taken aback with the interaction I have had with them so far. They acted very rushed and tried to get me off the phone quickly. They wanted to know way too much info about my job, where I live, and what I make.

Once you start to realize that you're not the one who did something wrong and you're not to blame, you're gonna probably hit an anger phase.

I can't imagine getting to an anger phase. I know I had one with his cheating but I can't bring myself to be more than afraid and deny, deny, deny.

I should have left for all of those reasons especially the rape but I never did. I keep telling myself it must not have been all that bad.

Let's talk about this for a minute. I think part of was possibly a coping mechanism, making the best of a bad situation so to speak. Another part is how much head game bullshit was pulled on you over the years? Kinda like Stockholme Syndrome but in a weird way. Hell, just the experience alone is enough to mess with your head!

I can definitely see this being a lot like battered wife syndrome. It took the support of my brother to get me thru the divorce. I use to cry on exwh's shoulder begging him to just let me come home (this was going to require him to end his A). The longer I lived apart from him, the stronger I got. I was no longer the quiet woman crying in the courtroom. I became the strong and empowered woman who got her way (mostly) in the courtroom.

I think it's almost as hard on a male family member when this happens. I think they feel helpless and that they let their loved one down because they failed to protect them from a predator. I saw this in my dad after it happened to me as a kid. Rape doesn't just hurt the survivor, it hurts their families too.

Even though I wasn't with my SO during the rape stuff, he still feels bad that he wasn't able to protect me. He is very protective of me.

[This message edited by courageous at 6:01 AM, June 17th (Monday)]

Abuse rewires our brain. It changes the way we think about things and the way we look at life.

Trauma and abuse changes us. And when something traumatic happens to us, we carry it around inside, whether we acknowledge it or not. We can bury it deep, but at some point it ALWAYS comes out in some form or another and it is usually damaging.

I know that I do over sexualize almost everything. My SO gets frustrated with me because it feels like he can't have a serious conversation without me turning what he said into a dirty joke.

I find myself flip flopping between a dirty girl and an innocent.

They can help you reframe the circumstances of your abuse so you can see it from an outsider's point of view. They can help you make some sense of it and also help you release any of the toxic emotions...

I think so much of my life and myself is toxic.

ETA. Many women are raped by their husbands/partners. Most don't report it. Many women feel either 1. too embarrassed 2. they deserved it 3. it wasn't really rape since it was their partner and sometimes they may submit willingly. My first H manipulated me into sex before I was ready. I was a virgin. He called me a c**k-tease and it made me feel guilty. He told me it physically hurt men when they got excited and couldn't follow thru. I submitted. At the time, it just felt icky. Now, I see it as abuse....

I have heard that line of a girl shouldn't leave a guy in pain so many times!!!! My exwh also use to say that it wasn't right that he shouldn't have to almost rape his wife for him to get sex that I should be more willing. It's like he knew what he was doing was wrong but didn't/doesn't care.

I don't think I will ever get to confront him on what he did to me as being wrong.

I am angry for you for what he has done. When you get to the anger part, you will start healing. I know right now you are still in shock. But again, a good counselor will not only believe you (and any counselor that does NOT believe you should not be counseling) but will help you heal. Sending you strength and positive vibes....

Thank you it's nice to have someone pulling for me...it's what keeping me from giving up.

I have been so disappointed in the marriage counselor that we went to. I have been tempted to send her a letter telling her about how much damage she caused and help perpetuate.

[This message edited by courageous at 7:29 PM, June 17th (Monday)]

I don't think I will ever get to confront him on what he did to me as being wrong.

Probably not, and most probably he will go to his grave with his delusional thinking. He is manipulative and controlling, arrogant and self-entitled. You are not dealing with someone who can have compassion for others so don't even waste your precious time. Not only that, but trying to get him to see the error of his ways will only hurt you more because he can't and won't.

He is a predator. He preyed on you. He knew what he was doing. These types (many are personality disordered) are very good at manipulation and understanding exactly what it takes to get what they want.

It's like he knew what he was doing was wrong but didn't/doesn't care.

I think you have a good grasp on things here.

I have been so disappointed in the marriage counselor that we went to. I have been tempted to send her a letter telling her about how much damage she caused and help perpetuate.

Church counselors and marriage/family counselors are going from a different perspective. They usually are focused on saving the relationship, which means they may downplay what the other partner did in order to try to bring peace between the two parties. They also may focus on forgiveness. Screw forgiveness. You don't have to forgive. He hurt you. Screw him. Forgive yourself for anything you feel you did that you may need some type of forgiveness for, but you don't have to forgive him.

And you don't need someone who is trying to bring peace here. You need someone in your corner who will help you stay strong, look out for yourself first, reinforce that you did the right thing by leaving him, and help undo and make sense of the damage this creature did to you.

(((((((((lots of hugs))))))))

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 9:07 AM, June 17th (Monday)]

My next/ first appointment is the monday after tomorrow (the 24th). I'm really afraid... I have all of these emotions and I don't know what I would do if they act unconcerned and bothered by me wasting their time.

I was a little taken aback with the interaction I have had with them so far. They acted very rushed and tried to get me off the phone quickly. They wanted to know way too much info about my job, where I live, and what I make.

First, you are not wasting their time. They are wasting your time if they aren't there to help. Second, if their main clients are typically in dire straits and in need of immediate assistance and they aren’t equipped for the kind of long term IC you are looking for, they can refer you to someone who is. Don’t be afraid to ask for a referral.

You're not losing control at all. By making that choice and taking that first step, you're breaking the chains of what you've repressed and hid from yourself and held you back all these years. Don't be the caged bird that's afraid to flee when the cage door is open.

I hold my emotions very tightly. Although I am smiling and laughing on the outside I can be upset or hurting on the inside. Losing controls means I allow myself to feel my emotions. Once I start I can't stop. I have stuffed things down for so long I don't know what I'm feeling sometimes. My SO knows me so well that he can recognize when something is wrong just by the sound of my voice.

I know some have said the shame is not mine... I allowed a man to take away my free will, to not only hurt me but to keep coming back for more. When he cheated on me I had the hyper bonding. I wanted sex every night.... From my abuser instead of pushing him away I was needing him like I never needed him before. Of course it was all a joke for him and a sick ego boost...even then I was his puppet. He was able to get me to do things that I always felt were degrading just so I could try to keep my husband... The man that has hurt me most in this life time.

Everything I said as a girl I wouldn't tolerate, I did. I lost my self respect and so much more.

[This message edited by courageous at 9:03 PM, June 17th (Monday)]

At some point, courageous, you will come to a place where you can forgive the woman you used to be. Where you will not feel betrayed by what she did, but proud of how resiliant her spirit is and how far she has come.

It's a process, honey. WHEN you find the right counselor and start working through all of this, you will find yourself granting that woman the grace she (YOU) deserves.

(((((courageous))))))

Everything I said as a girl I wouldn't tolerate I did. I lost my self respect and so much more.

Time to get it back. You got this!!

I lost my self respect and so much more

It will come back. I mean it. You seem like you're in a place where you're starting the work of discovering yourself. Your self-love is inside, waiting to be discovered. It's hard getting there, it takes time to get there, and for sure it's not a straight line to get there. But you're on your way.

He was able to get me to do things that I always felt were degrading just so I could try to keep my husband... The man that has hurt me most in this life time.

Everything I said as a girl I wouldn't tolerate, I did. I lost my self respect and so much more.

You have nothing to be ashamed of. You loved this man and you were trying to please him. That is not a negative trait.

This person took advantage of your love and your fears. He holds the shame. You were vulnerable and he preyed on your vulnerabilities.

Like Nature Girl says, we do what we need to do to survive. That is a strength, not a weakness. For whatever reasons, you felt you needed this man in your life for a while. You did what it took to keep him there. Now you realize you do not need him anymore and your eyes are opening, the spell is fading. You are getting stronger (though it doesn't seem like it right now). Your strength and new insights are what will help you avoid situations like this in the future.

I've been listening to a song over and over today. It's called damaged by plumb. The lyrics are:

"Dreaming comes so easily

'Cause it's all that I've ever know

True love is a fairy tale

I'm scared and I'm alone

I'm ashamed

And I need for you to know

I didn't say all the things that I wanted to say

And you can't take back what you've

taken away

'Cause I feel you, I feel you near me (x's 2)

Healing comes so painfully

And it chills to the bone

Will anyone get close to me?

I'm damaged, as I'm sure you know

There's mending for my soul

An ending to this fear

Forgiveness for a man who was stronger"

It really hit me today... I'm never going to get back what he took from me 😢

I'm damaged, so far damaged that I think SO is better off without me. The damaged part of me wants to destroy all the good and happiness in my life because I don't deserve it... I'm dirty and worthless. The small hurt child in me wants to give him my damage and make me whole again. They are constantly at war with each other.

I was completely honest with SO last night. I've been having the feeling of wanting to go out to a club and push the boundaries with a guy (like having a conversation and maybe dance) and then come home and tell him about it so that he would be angry at me. Half of me wants him to leave me and prove he is just like every guy I have ever dated. The other half wants him to come rushing in and heal my pain. **for the record I would never cheat on him and I have never cheated in the past**

Well his reply... If I did that he would leave me. Kind of devastating to know how little I'm worth. Granted it was a PTSD reaction but it doesn't make me feel any better.

[This message edited by courageous at 10:04 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)]

Hang on, courageous. Your past is breaking through right now and you are caught up in these feelings and impulses. This is a good thing--and will lead you to a counselor who can guide you through the shoals.

Hang on. Let these feelings and memories wash through you. Don't act yet on them. Keep working on talking right now.

((courageous))

Courageous....you have been here long enough to *know* that your SO's reaction to your proclamation that you wanted to go out and *push boundaries* is an extremely healthy response from him.

He won't tolerate that. And he shouldn't. It's not fair of you to 'test' him in that way.

It is NOT his job to 'heal' you. You are putting an insurmountable burden onto him. Your SO seems to like you and want to spend time with you. Because of 'you'.

Heal you.....so that you can be a true 'partner' to your SO.

Courageous....you have been here long enough to *know* that your SO's reaction to your proclamation that you wanted to go out and *push boundaries* is an extremely healthy response from him.

He won't tolerate that. And he shouldn't. It's not fair of you to 'test' him in that way.

Yes. I do understand that. I also know that I had to compete for my own husband and lost. I also feel like I'm in competition with SO's exww. She screwed around with different guys throughout their marriage and he continued the relationship with her. Yet talking to guys would be a deal breaker for our relationship... Feels like I lost again.

It sucks feeling like I'm being compared to the "previous" model....

As I mentioned before I have never cheated and do not ever plan too. I was faithful to a man prior to having an A would ask me what I was thinking and then tell me that what I said wasn't important and not talk to him until I had something important to say. He gave me the silent treatment for 3 months straight... Why you ask...for shits and giggles. I had done nothing wrong, he just wanted to see how long he could last not talking to me.

Being surrounded by happily married couples at church, being completely and utterly alone while standing in a roomful of people... I stayed faithful. Learning how to play a role playing online game so my husband would spend time with me and even then he scolded me for any mistakes... I stayed faithful. Mourning the loss of a child without the support of my husband because the babies he had his girlfriend in high school abort were more "real" and important to him than my miscarriage.

I hear what you are saying and I think you misunderstood me. I had these thoughts. They are never something I would carry out. If I cheated it would actually kill SO. I know this for a fact. I love him dearly and would never want to hurt him. I believe it's important to be transparent and told him my thoughts because I'm struggling with self destruction.

I had also told him how badly I wanted to start cutting again and how I even had the blade in my hand. I have told him where I would probably cut to hide it. I tell him these things so he can understand what I'm feeling.

It is NOT his job to 'heal' you. You are putting an insurmountable burden onto him. Your SO seems to like you and want to spend time with you. Because of 'you'.

I know it isn't his job to heal me and I haven't asked him ....just like it isn't my job to heal him. We are two very hurt and betrayed people who are supporting each other as we weather the storm our cheating spouses left in their wake. We struggle with triggers, fears, anxiety, and trust issues. Why are we in a relationship together? Because we both believe that the other person is worth it.

Heal you.....so that you can be a true 'partner' to your SO.

I'm trying...really I am. To heal I have to feel all the pain that I have pushed down and denied for a long time. While at the same time more childhood memories of abuse are starting to surface. My coping skills are very bad.

I have noticed that I have started the cycle of self destruction again...quicker this time. Last time it was in February and before that it was over 10 years ago. If I can just stay safe until I make it thru the cycle I will be okay.

I am hurting. SO is so far away and can't be here for me that often. I actually feel that even though he is the only person IRL I have been able to discuss what happened to me regarding abuse, I'm thinking I might need to not tell him any more because it hurts him too much to hear my pain.

I'm in the beginning stages.... Just like dday for an A. I have had a dday...realizing what happened was actual abuse (rape). I have started having PTSD issues again where even people in the same room as me startle me. I have sleeping issues. I'm still in shock and its hard for the words to sink in.....

My husband who vowed to love, honor, and cherish me not only didn't do any of those things but he took something very sweet and precious from me that I will never get it back. He raped me for YEARS and I allowed it to continue. I was treated like dirt even though I was the one who put exwh thru college.

[This message edited by courageous at 2:56 AM, June 19th (Wednesday)]

I'm damaged, so far damaged that I think SO is better off without me.

Stop that. That is faulty thinking. Although I understand WHY you feel that way (I have felt THAT damaged myself sometimes), it is not correct. Anyway, it is HIS choice whether to stay or not. Let him make the choice, don't try to make it for him.

Well his reply... If I did that he would leave me.

He is giving you a healthy boundary. He knows how much pain he can tolerate and that would be too much for him, so he has let you know what the consequences of that action would be.

Kind of devastating to know how little I'm worth.

That also is faulty thinking. If you were worthless, he wouldn't care if you did that type of thing because it wouldn't bother him. It wouldn't bother him if he did not have strong feelings towards you.

It is good that you two can talk thru these things. It is okay to tell him your feelings, and it is okay for him to react to them. As long as you keep the lines of communication open and discuss these things in honestly and calmly.....my new guy and I have talks like these also.....

I also know that I had to compete for my own husband and lost.

NO. You won. You got rid of the loser.

I had also told him how badly I wanted to start cutting again and how I even had the blade in my hand.

Have you started IC yet? Please please please give it another shot (interview your counselor first to make sure you and they click. You are allowed to talk with them before you accept them as your counselor. It is vital that your counselor understands and has unconditional regard and compassion towards you, while still holding you responsible for your actions.) Your SO sounds wonderful, but this is a lot to put on him alone. You really need the IC to bounce things off of also.

I am hurting. SO is so far away and can't be here for me that often.

This is why you need someone else in your corner IRL that can hear what you need to say. IC IC IC IC!

I'm thinking I might need to not tell him any more because it hurts him too much to hear my pain.

Talk this over with him but let HIM make the decision over whether he wants to hear it or not. Quit trying to make his decisions for him.

but he took something very sweet and precious from me that I will never get it back. He raped me for YEARS and I allowed it to continue. I was treated like dirt

You will never get that back, but you do not have to allow it to determine your future. You can grow and become stronger from this. You can learn from this. You will NEVER allow another person to treat you like dirt, because you are working on healing, finding your self-worth, and strengthening yourself. I know I sound like a broken record here, but again, a good IC can really really help with this....

Well his reply... If I did that he would leave me. Kind of devastating to know how little I'm worth.

I agree with NA here - your SO establishing a healthy boundary in no way negates your worth. If anything, he knows that you are worth MORE than being the kind of woman who throws herself at men. Were he to stay under the circumstances you described, he would be enabling incredibly unhealthy patterns in you, and reinforcing that that behavior defines your worth. Your SO cares about you because of who you are at your fundamental core, and that behavior isn't a part of it. That behavior is reactionary to what happened in your marriage, and beneath you, to be honest.

It also shows that your SO knows his own worth.

There is no competition with his ex wife. She is irrelevant to your relationship with your SO. When he stayed with her, it wasn't because he thought she was somehow "worth it" where you aren't. The motivations, situation, everything was completely different. Your SO had different boundaries and was at a very different place as an individual at that time of his life. There is no comparison to be made.

your SO establishing a healthy boundary in no way negates your worth. If anything, he knows that you are worth MORE than being the kind of woman who throws herself at men. Were he to stay under the circumstances you described, he would be enabling incredibly unhealthy patterns in you, and reinforcing that that behavior defines your worth. Your SO cares about you because of who you are at your fundamental core, and that behavior isn't a part of it

I never looked at things that way. Boundaries are a foreign thing to me because my boundaries were trampled on starting at an early age.

I talked to SO more after I wrote that and he said that although he wouldn't date me any more if I did that he never said he would stop loving me. Although it sounds silly that meant a lot to me.

I have the appointment with the rape crisis center Monday and I went ahead and scheduled another appointment with the church counselor. It's going to be someone different this time.

I don't like hurting so much. People are starting to notice things are off with me.

I'm making small steps of progress.... I told my best friend of 20 years that I am going to a rape crisis center for counseling. Her first words is she wanted to know who it was because if it had been SO she was going to go beat him up it's nice having supportive friends. She didn't ask any questions. I'm not that ready to talk about things ... just taking baby steps

my first appointment is on monday night. SO sent me a link to a youtube video by a counselor named Kati Morton. She had a video on how long it takes to heal from sexual abuse. She recommended a book called the courage to heal from sexual abuse. I was wondering if anyone has heard about it or used it before?

I haven't, but on an unrelated note, did you see the WHO report released this week? If you are still feeling alone, you should look it up - they are estimating that 1 in 3 women worldwide has been abused by a current or former partner.