SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi Joe

It's still new and you are going to go back and forth for awhile. Keep focused on you.

Curious did you ever tell the OP wife?

Stay strong. You will make it.

Yes, I, too, have been hit on over the years and always, always said no in honor of my marriage and allegiance to Happy pants.

Happy Pants did not return the favor the one time he was ever hit on and in fact cheated with gusto, seeking others when that failed with Fatty B he went online...all the while keeping myself and his daughter at home.

Much happened after that, and when he pretended to reconcile I got pregnant and off he ran again, where? To her.

I'm sorry for everyone's pain and wish everyone well. It seems we have all been sent on this journey through hell and we don't know what's on the other side.

I just know that it's time for some respect...for all of us!

She said she finally got some sleep last night and it has become clear to her how unhappy she has been over the past few years. She mentioned that she feels trapped, we don't do anything as a family, I am self absorbed, etc... The sad thing is she has me believing it now, and I feel like a failure. Maybe I should have planned some more family trips to the beach, paid more attention to her, etc... I think some of that is valid. She told me the affair was just a matter of time and if it wasn't the personal trainer it would have been with someone else. You would think I was the worst person ever the way she describes me, not exactly helping my flatlined self esteem!

ok, so your marriage wasn't great.

Why did she cheat and hide? Why didn't she come to you and say she wasn't happy so that the BOTH of you could decide the best course? And what about your kids? Does she have the right to decide to cheat and ruin their family as well?

See? two different issues.

She can't blame the marriage for her cheating and hiding. She is just using that as an excuse so she doesn't have to feel bad about her actions. She may actually believe her thoughts, because it's easier to say, "i must have cheated because I was unhappy" than to look for deeper reasons. Like, "I'm immature and need affirmation to feel good about myself."

You aren't the bad guy here. You aren't the only one responsible for a happy marriage. You aren't responsible for MAKING her happy.

The question is, now that you know what kind of person she is, what do you want to do?

Please try not to believe that anything you did or didn't do caused her to cheat..For every issue in which she claims that you didn't meet her needs, you can counter argue that she didn't meet all of your needs..

I'm sure she wasn't a saint in the marriage, because after all, she chose to cheat...

This mess does blow our self esteem to

smithereens..

My infidelity diet has caused me to gain about 30 pounds in the last 2 years...Double whammy on the self esteem...

I am working to find a comfortable niche in which to exist once again...When my new life begins, I hope I will be able to fit into all of my old pretty clothes, lol

P.S. I just finished reading the post above mine..My suggestion is for your W to read my byline on the bottom..The one about the kite ......

[This message edited by doggiediva at 1:22 PM, June 30th (Sunday)]

Ah yes,

The A was all your fault !

You made her cheat on you.

Talk about blame shifting.

Joe,

If you don't want to out OM to his wife, Then out him to his employer, (if he has one). They need to know the type of employee they have on staff. If he is lying to his wife, what makes him such an honest employee?

My XH told me he wasn't happy in our marriage because I didn't keep the house as clean as he wanted, I was late, I wouldn't let him go out with the boys. I wouldn't let him watch football on TV. None of it true (BTW). I had a friend going thru the same thing as I at the same time, her H told her she didn't love him because she served him bagged salad. That was his reason for having an affair... BAGGED SALAD!!!

No matter what the reason she comes up with...it isn't a reason to cheat. Everything I wrote above was FIXABLE. If he had come to me and told me about them. They are not divorce worthy reasons to end a marriage. Or even reasons to choose to toss your integrity and have an affair.

Until she acts 100% full of remorseful and starts acting on putting YOUR needs before her own.. it is status quo.

You'll know when to change the status quo... trust your gut on that.

Hugs,

K

[This message edited by Kajem at 3:01 AM, July 1st (Monday)]

Joe - Ok so you weren't in the best marriage ever. BIG DEAL. It's up to both of you to work on that. HOWEVER.......Her choosing to have an A. That is all on her.

Many of us have experienced the blame game. IT sucks. This is part of the reason why you need to share whats going on with a few people that love you. They help to keep all that crazy, self doubt building BS at minimum.

When my H was in the heart of his A. I couldn't do anything right. I mean anything. The house was never cleaned up enough, the kids didn't behave the way they needed to, the dogs shed in the house, the food I cooked wasn't healthy enough, it went on and on and on. IT was all BS. He was transferring, and blameshifting, trying to find a way to justify his actions in his own messed up brain.

Don't allow her to beat you down. This is not on you. You feel free to take responsibility of the M not being great, but the A is on all her.

What are you doing to help yourself through this?

(((and strength))))

I have come to the conclusion that the only way this even has a chance to work is to start over with her. Everything that we had has burned to the ground, and I have to determine if I can fall in love, and trust my WW again. We fight the way bad roomates argue about things, sometimes just a look I give her or she gives me can start a tirade. I had thought that me catching her in an A would make her more remorsful and willing to back down, but it has been downright miserable around the house. The interesting thing is that I believe she has maintained NC with the OM, and she seems to be very disapointed with herself and surprised that she could be with this OM who is not better looking (or in better shape even though he is a trainer) than me, makes a fraction of what I make, etc... He was smart, took his time, and pounced when the opportunity presented itself. But she jumped in with both feet and encouraged the A. Plus, the sexual texts that I found between them will never, ever get out of my head. If it wasn't for the kids, I would be long gone.

So here is my very long winded question (for anyone that has made it this far): If I would divorce her immediately without kids, and the kids are are very young, does it make sense to even try to stay married because we have kids? I love our kids more than I imagined possible, and their welfare is my #1 priority.

G'morning Joe,

The things you post your WW saying are very similar to the things my FWW said. She always had one foot out the door, my having to forgive her for the A made it easier for her to forgive me for being a crappy H, everything was always my way and what I wanted, I was broken...

The thing is it wasn't me, it was her. Once she owned her crap and started to work on her issues (+2 years in IC) it became clear to her and to me that I was not the problem. It was her perceptions being filtered through her FOO and personality issues.

I have come to the conclusion that the only way this even has a chance to work is to start over with her.

First, she has to start over with her. She has to own and work through her issues.

She told me the affair was just a matter of time and if it wasn't the personal trainer it would have been with someone else.

This would be a good place for her to start. Why was an A inevitable with her? Many (many, many) of us had bad M. By definition as a BS our spouses were cheating on us, yet few of us had As. It is not that we do not have opportunities, but we have boundaries. We self-sooth rather than relying on external validation. we do not have attachment disorders, we do not have personality disorders, whatever.

A good place for your WW and you to start may be to read and discuss Not Just Friends by Glass, and Sexual Detours by Hines. IC for her to figure out why an A was inevitable for her.

MC can wait. While she is working through figuring out, owning, and fixing her issues, you can work on you.

...my flatlined self esteem

Here is a place for you to start. Her A was not about you. That was the most valuable thing our MC said to me, and you hear it often on SI because it is true. What the OM was does not matter. Richer, poorer, older, younger, ugly, handsome, kind, an ass. None of it matters. All that mattered was what your WW projected on to him. It was all about her and her trying to meet some need in the absolutely worst way possible. There is no reason for your self esteem to suffer.

What can you focus on to work on your healing? Establish boundaries for your WW so you feel safe while she is working on her crap and you on yours. Can you expand your social network, hobbies, and activities? Take the focus of your life off of your M and WW, and put it back onto you and your activities.

...it make sense to even try to stay married because we have kids?

I say no. If your WW cannot begin to work at turning herself around and getting to where she is able to be a fully participating M partner, then I believe that it is better that you do not demonstrate a dysfunctional M to your kids. There need be no rush to leave. If your WW is staying NC, willing to work on her issues and meet your boundary requirements to feel safe, then you can give her 6 months or so to work on her while you work on healing yourself. During this time you can also work on getting finances into better order as well as your own life, so if the time comes to D you are as prepared as possible.

Ask yourself, "Is it better for my children to be from a broken home, or live in one?".

I don't know how it would work in your neck of the woods, but I went for and got primary custody of my son. He was 3. I had to drastically alter my lifestyle(read 50% paycut, but 50% cut in hours) but to me, my son was worth every penny.

Is she worth it? Sounds like she's not willing to make any change of significance and just wants to rugsweep the entire thing. Things will come around again without her acknowledging her own issues.

Good luck

Strength

Here's the reality you've summarized:

1. She has not invested in the marriage. This is the biggest issue causing her dissatisfaction, rather than anything you've done or not done. And if this doesn't change, she's just another opportunity away from cheating again and again and again.

2. She has everything taken care of for her - the children have a nanny, she has too much time on her hands, and she has a cushy lifestyle in which she has chosen to be dishonest and selfish.

3. She has no remorse for betraying YOU and her family, only remorse for herself. It seems that in her mind, she's the only one she violated.

4. She feels she's in a position to make demands of you, lacks empathy and in fact, is a miserable roommate.

Since these four points exist, regardless of the young age of your children, you have little choice left between either complete self-sacrifice, or sever households from her.

She has had NO LOGICAL CONSEQUENCES for her betrayal of her family or you.

She still lives in her cushy lifestyle, and is just an opportunity away from cheating on you again.

Take away the cushy lifestyle is your number one requirement.

Walking down the path to divorce will give you several things:

1. Logical consequences - if this, then that are the best teachers you can give your children. If you're always there, softening or taking away the blow from her choices, it stands to reason your children will be raised to be dishonest cheaters too because if you'll protect your wayward wife from her own behavior, with this kind of soul-destroying behavior against you, it stands to reason you'll do anything to help your children avoid their consequences. She's spoiled!! Don't do it to them.

2. Leverage. You have the means to gain custody - you have the nanny already in place to take care of them. She can go live the life she wants. Or she can provide you with a plan to invest in the marriage and protect it. Without that investment from her, SHE.MUST.GO!!!

3. Post-nup. If she's willing to invest in the marriage, she must be willing to do it for the long stretch. Demonstrate that she will protect the marriage and intends to do that forever.

What is her plan to make this right with you? My guess is she's not offering anything. She's making demands, which means she has no intention of doing anything but being a spoiled brat.

Is this who you want raising your children?

Talk with a lawyer and get the ball rolling. Let her know she has a limited amount of time to make the necessary changes. That you are willing to be there making changes right along with her so that it's a marriage, not a dictatorship that doesn't care if she's miserable.

But right now, she's just a spoiled brat who had it too good for way too long.

Love is not a feeling. It's an action. It's a result of putting oneself into the relationship - it's an investment of all one is to the care and protection of another.

She doesn't know this. And if you don't recognize her withholding her investment in you and the family, you're asking for a lifetime of pain. Stop propping her up and aiding her in not investing.

She is a stay at home mom, we have a nanny, and stays in her room all day and won't come out.

Joe, your wife has no job. No income. No responsibilities. Take away all her credit cards, her nanny, her personal training money, I'm assuming you have cleaners as well ... and give her a reasonable amount of cash for spending but no more. She needs a dose of reality. If she's got a really nice car, sell it and get her something very normal like a 3 year old Honda minivan... etc.

She didn't have an affair because of all the stuff you've given her, but I can guarantee she thinks she's entitled to it.

Joe,

Way back on page 3 of this thread I more or less posted what a lot of others were saying before and have been saying since. I’m not saying this to get some acknowledgement or anything like that; I freely admit that there is hardly an original thought or theory in my post. It’s simply an accumulation of experience and events I have seen over and over again here on SI. That is “knowledge” shared by many of us, some who have also posted here on your thread.

In a sense you aren’t much different from so many other posters here on SI. You post your story – we offer advice. Some of that advice sounds tough and you pick-and-choose from it. That’s OK – I even state in my first post that although action is predictable there is no way we can be 100% certain how things will develop. But I also tell you that without some of the actions your chances are minimal…

I strongly encourage you to go back to the beginning of this thread and to re-read all the advice offered. Really consider where you are, what advice you have followed, what you have ignored and THINK whether your situation might be … different…. (I won’t say better or worse) had you followed some of the suggestions.

Frankly – and I freely admit it’s easy to say this when not dealing with it myself – to me it sounds as if you are still floundering in the lake wondering if that miracle helicopter will ever arrive.

Joe, I ll bet she is still seeing the POSOM.The way she is acting toward you almost screams it. My then wife was the same way, sitting on the fence blaming me for everything, UNTIL I TOLD THE OM WIFE AN WATCHED AS HE THRU MY THEN WIFE UNDER THE BUS.Her fantasy world then melted bigtime , plus she now had her boyfriends wife to deal with. Whole new ball game now. She was begging to come back after that,but I found out way too much an that was a deal breaker for me an I divorced her. That will be a personal decision on your part to reconcile or not.Knock her off the fence Joe, file for divorce( you don't have to go thru with it)an tell the POSOM wife. You might be surprised what happens, for the better.

I totally understand your hestitation or fear of saying or doing anything that you feel is irrevocable, until you have a clearer mind..

To use Bigger's analogy, do protect yourself with life preservers though, until you learn which available islands are available for you to swim to..

Don't let WW walk all over you in the interest of staying together for the kids.

I put up with my WH being a needy,whiny, lazy partner during our long marriage. I should have stood up for myself by demanding that we have more give and take or balance in our marriage.By the time I became aware of my WH's A, I had already lost a vast amount of respect for him.

The crappy self centered way in which WH handled the A aftermath caused me to lose my love for him as well.

I am going to have to find the strength,courage and resources to pull myself out of the rip tide or hole of quicksand that I am stuck in..I am not armed with these at the moment..

I can't hope that I will be lucky enough for a rescue helicopter to find me and take me away from this mess.

I feel like my strength will come when I find more IRL support(family,friends). At the present time I have little IRL support. My first step is to find people to do things with so that I have fun things to look forward to, which will make D a little less scary.

I have been a big hermit lately..I am grieving the loss of easy access to my sister who is my best friend. She and her husband recently moved 1000 miles away to follow his job.

What are your strengths? What do you still need to work on to protect yourself?

Please don't get to the point where you feel stuck like I do.

Wishing you strength to get to that peaceful place where you and your kids can thrive.

[This message edited by doggiediva at 3:23 AM, July 4th (Thursday)]

Thank you so much for all of your advice so far. I have caught my wife in another lie, not a big lie but her not being honest with me over something I would not have gotten mad about if she just told me the truth. She is shredding and trace of trust and faith in her I have left. I am stressed to the max and probably wanted to take the path of least resistance, which was to gut it out until things for better, mainly for my kids but also because I try to avoid confrontation when possible. However, after this most recent event, I contacted the attorney and we are going to make preparations to file. I am sick over this decision and still can't believe I am here. I had a mini panic attack this morning over it. I am still waiting to wake up and have someone tell me everything is going to be OK.

You will be ok. You must believe that. At present, your choices are to move forward and take care of you or to remain in this toxic environment. The wife and marriage that you had is gone. You can't go back, staying like it is now will kill you, so forward is the only way to go. I know it seems terribly hard now, but in a few years it will be crystal clear to you.

I wonder, if there were issues about money and spending time together as a family, then why is there a nanny when the WW is a SAHM? She has all sorts of free time during the day to do whatever she wants thanks to the nanny (as evidenced by her late afternoon stop at the bar... really?).

She's not going to be able to afford a nanny when she lives alone, so it's time to pull the plug on the nanny and get WW set to deal with real life. If she wants family, she can start by being a mother to her children and being there for them all the time.

I totally agree, I told her last week her choices were either to go back to work or let the nanny go. At first she said she would go back to work. Now, she said she is nervous after being out of the workforce for almost five years, and would rather stay at home and give up the nanny. However, knowing I think she would have a tough time with that. Like everything else right now, it is hard to know exactly what is going through her mind.