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Joe, I was a SAHM for a decade when DDay happened in my house (I'm the BS as well). I went back to work because I realized I needed to protect myself and not be stuck with H because of his income. I got the first job I applied for. We've moved a few times since DDay, and I've ALWAYS landed the first job that I was qualified for and applied for. I even got a job last week that I didn't think I'd get, and I start that one next week. So being scared, ya, I get it. But she has to change things because whether you two stay together or not she can't be staying at home and having a nanny so she can go whenever and wherever she feels like. Completely ridiculous.

Joe,

I'm the employed one in the family. WH doesn't have a nanny and housekeeper but my son is in school all day and in an after school program. He had the ENTIRE school year to try and get a job. He did not. He is not spending any time with our son now it is summer.

I kind of understand your hesitation in making decisions for yourself. I feel the same way. I kept feeling like if I could make some decisions for him that had some consequences he would "snap out of it".

Now I'm pretty sure nothing will do that so I am only worried about making decisions for me.

Have you looked at this from what you want?

What do you want?

Do you want to work all day, have your kids raised by someone else so you can fund your WW's relaxed and fun lifestyle? Do you want to wonder who else it will be? Do you want to spend how much more time "waiting to see" if she gets better?

I looked back at almost 20 years and thought 'well I can't throw that away in a day without trying'. I knocked myself out trying for a whole stupid year and nearly killed myself in the process. Now I am facing the health ramifications of sticking my head in the sand.

Since removing my head from my rearend I have stopped thinking like any of that.

Would my son be crushed if we split? yes. He was crushed when we moved an hour from his grandparents. Has it killed him? No. Has he learned to deal with it remarkably well? Yes. Do I have the resources to take care of him and be there for him and get him help if he needs it from somewhere other than me? Yes. Is living in a house with all tension and no love good for him? He'd probably argue its better than split parents but I have seen kids from split parents in happier single parent households do better than DS is now and he doesn't know the half of it. How much better of a mom would I be without dealing with WH's shit?

Now, besides my son -

How much better would I feel all by myself? Much. Can I ever fix WH? No. Can I fix me and my broken parts? yes.

This is how I am moving on.

I'm only sharing because I can see how you telling her what to do might make you feel better at the moment and I'm not saying she shouldn't get off her ass and take some responsibility for something...but that is only one small issue at the top of a whole bigger pile of issues right?

There is one thing I would have done a long time ago if I had this all to do over. I would have asked my husband for a divorce when my youngest was young because we fought all the time and my kids, even though it was not always in front of them grew up in this type of situation.

Asking for a divorce would have either woken my husband up to the way he was treating me (no A that I know of then though) or B. my kids would be better adjusted now. I may still divorce and I think it would be harder for them now.

Two things I pretty much know to be true I wouldn't have been lonely all these years and I don't think I would be going through an affair right now.

I am sorry for your pain, maybe your wife will come out of this "fog" if she knows you mean business.

Joe,

If you start divorce proceedings you can always withdraw the application if your narcissistic wife ever generates some genuine remorse.

Or you can go through with the divorce and continue to reside with your ex, at the same address, for the sake of the kids. Then she would need to find employment just to generate some income of her own. End of her cushy existence.

Either way, if you don't take stern action at this point this woman will cheat again. After all she believes that you 'asked for it' by your claimed neglect. Don't fall for that bulls**t; she needs a massive dose of reality and you have the means to deliver that.

What bothers me the most about waywards is the disrespect they show us BS's with their selfish decision to have an A. Joe, your WW is continuing to disrespect you. She knows you don't like confrontation & IMOHO, is fully expecting you to put the brakes on any threats you may have made. In other words, she's calling your bluff. It's just like my H does. After a sufficient amount of silent treatment, it all goes under the rug & the next round begins! She thinks she has you figured out & I hope you shock the mess out of her!!!

You and your children will be all right.

Heed the advice of your attorney. Ask him about financial separations and what can be done now. A common piece of advice is to take half of all funds and open up an account in your name only. Keep good records of the money and what it is used to pay for.

I would also suggest that you immediately remove her from any accounts that she is an authorized user on and to freeze any accounts from any additional purchases that you both may be on. If any joint accounts have a zero balance consider closing them.

Begin keeping a journal on her activities and what you are also doing in the way of keeping the house together.

Consider purchasing a voice activated recorder. It serves two purposes. The first is to keep you in check when ever you are discussing things with her (keep a calm head). The second is to provide security for you in the event she fabricates any false statements or accusations against you. You already know she is a liar and can't be trusted. May not be admissible in court to be used against her, but it might be able to prove your innocence in the event she falsely accuses you. It wouldn't be the first time it has been witnessed by our fellow SI'ers.

I would not be surprised that she has been seeking legal advice. Her refusal to not seek employment has probably been advised for custody, more child support and alimony.

As someone else has already stated filing is just the beginning. Wish for sunshine, prepare for rain.

It will seem things are getting worse before they get better. Hang in there.

So it has been a little over a month since my DDay, and I can't imagine taking this journey without the people on this message board, thanks! I now understand what trickle truth is and other concepts that I previously was blissfully unaware of.

The long July 4th weekend gave me a chance to reflect. My WW has begun showing remorse, but also wants to engage in the issues (about me) that she feels led to a bad marriage. She fully accepts responsibility for the A and I believe has maintained NC with the AP (love these abbrieviations!) She says that the #1 problem with our marriage is that I tend to tune her out, which I am guilty of sometimes. I just feel that it is a little early I address these problems. I mean, I am 75% out the door at this point. The stupid blatant lies I have caught her in since DDay have rocked my confidence that I will recover.

She needs to focus on the damage she has done to your marriage. Think of it like this. If someone was shot in the chest the doctors would address that would first before looking at the guy's ingrown toenail. You need to work on healing from the fatal damage she has inflicted on you before you are ready to address any other issues. If she doesn't get this then I wouldn't reconcile.

I totally agree with naive girl..

That is why doing MC is a little bit premature at this stage..

When WH and I went to counseling,MC, I was soooo hoping that the MC would call WH out on his A behavior and validate my feelings a bit more..As it turned out I left each counseling session feeling worse instead of better..I felt like I didn't have what it took to be a good marriage partner..

Between WH blaming me for his A behavior and MC saying that the state of the marriage caused the A , I felt like I was a naive frigid screwup of a person. Reading online infidelity forums saved my life...

[This message edited by doggiediva at 4:29 PM, July 8th (Monday)]

So I have not been very nice to my wife today, just don't feel like playing nice. She takes my negative energy about the relationship and calls herself a piñata because I give her small digs about what happened. Then she gets angry and complains about all of my shortcomings and essentially wants to blame for whatever happened in the A. I know how she works, in a few hours she will send me text message saying how much she is sorry for saying those things. Totally unpredictable, but not conduct I would suspect from a wife banging her trainer and then getting caught.

This is where the 180 will give you strength and perspective...If you are at a good distance from your WW for enough time, you may be able to visualize her for what she truly is...

[This message edited by doggiediva at 11:22 PM, July 8th (Monday)]

Totally unpredictable, but not conduct I would suspect from a wife banging her trainer and then getting caught.

You're trying to attribute what we would consider *normal* behavior to someone who has demonstrated that she is not *normal*. Have you perused the NPD forum in the I Can Relate forum?

She seems to be exhibiting signs of narcissism by your descriptions of her behavior.

Strength

Joe - The only thing she is sorry for is getting caught. If you are having trouble deciding what to do, I would say you probably could go in stealth mode, and find out if she is still seeing the OM, or has a new OM. Her manipulations indicate to me that there is more going on, and if you find that out, it may make a decision easier.

Stay strong.

Protect your assets and finances so you have the luxury of time to be in stealth mode and see how this mess unfolds ..

Time=clarity, but the amount of time it takes is different for everybody :-/

So it has been a little over a months since I uncovered the PA of my WS. Since that time, I believe her that she has not contacted the OM, and I have access to her phone, computer, etc.. I also think after I caught her in several lies after I discovered the PA using her phone and computer, she has finally tightened up her ability to scrub information off of her devices, so I guess i can't totally be sure. We have been going to MC, both got tested for STD's (luckily we are totally OK), and she has been showing some remorse. I am trying to figure out when you know if the WS is doing enough to warrant giving her another chance. There is no doubt in my mind that if there were no kids involved, I would have kicked her out the first night. Our kids are also so young that there is no way I could hang in there until they go to college unless things get a lot better. I keep waiting for a sign, something that tells me that this is going to be OK and worth fixing. She has been remorseful, but if I did this I would be groveling on my hands and knees looking for forgiveness. She has still not sought out IC even though I go to IC, and I am not sure she is doing anything proactively to address these problems. Sometimes I feel she is just running out the clock on my anger and despair waiting for me to get over it.

"She has still not sought out IC even though I go to IC, and I am not sure she is doing anything proactively to address these problems. Sometimes I feel she is just running out the clock on my anger and despair waiting for me to get over it."

So, she isn't doing IC. But you are. You're both going to MC (which is kind of senseless if she's not making an effort to figure out why she would do what she did, in my opinion). And you feel she's just waiting for you to 'get over it.' If you file for D, maybe then she will realize you aren't going to just get over it.... and maybe then she'll be willing to do the work to own her crap and determine what SHE can do to repair and contribute to the M. You're being way too nice, Joe. Stop being nice. Make it very apparent to her you are done fooling around. If she doesn't get serious about fixing her own problems after looking at D papers, then you're better off calling it quits because she'll never own her own crap for any of her choices. File for D, request full custody of your children, offer no alimony and see what happens. Either way, you will be ahead of the game. Sending hugs to you.

But she has to change things because whether you two stay together or not she can't be staying at home and having a nanny so she can go whenever and wherever she feels like. Completely ridiculous.

Well, ridiculous now that we see what she chose to do with it. I'm all for a man pampering his woman if she's treating him right.

And now to add something to my random t/j:

Joe, she's waiting you out. Plain and simple. Waiting you out, trying every trick she can come up with to get this to blow over so she can go back to having the same sweet deal that was working so well for her.

She's probably also seeing an attorney to figure out a backup plan (if she's smart.) Because "personal trainer man" is not a backup plan from you. He's a screwed up hobby.

I probably sound really cold, but on some level it's all about the $. She wants to do what she wants and she wants as much $ as possible. Remorse isn't really in the equation here at all. Remorseful spouses don't scrub their phones. They wouldn't dream of it.

[This message edited by m334455 at 10:55 AM, July 12th (Friday)]

Remorse eh? How is she showing you that? Giving you the bare minimum to think there's a chance at R? or is she truly open, and transparent, and sick over what she has done?

She hasn't gone to IC? Does she give a reason why she chose to have an A? if not, then she needs to go, and you my friend get to make the rules. Here are my requirements for even attempting an R.

A. B. C. D.

Lay them out, if she balks, argues, or pushes back, she doesn't get it, and you should proceed with your exit plan.

Nothing is has changed as the consequences of what she has done, have been minimal. Remember you aren't dealing with your sane wife, youre dealing with a stranger who took her place. It takes being tough to chisel the stranger away and getting the real person back.

(((and strength)))

I wanted to give everyone s brief update. What amazes me most about this forum is the complete predictability of how these events unfold and how the wise people on this forum can accurately advise what is coming next and how to handle it. So we are about 7 weeks from D-Day, and we are fighting more than ever. We still sleep in seperate rooms. We gave gone to 4 MC sessions. I have gone to two IC sessions. She refuses to go to IC because she doesn't feel she needs to. She says she knows the reason she cheated, she says she was a coward that felt trapped and should have either sought out MC sooner or asked for a divorce, and instead made a bad decision and cheated. She is human. She also said the problem is I am emotionally unattached and she still loves but is not in love. Ouch!

(((joe)))

She is doing nothing to help you heal. If she were you wouldn't be fighting incessantly. She says she gets why she did it. What changes has she implemented to assure that she does not ever make those choices again?

I see that she is still blaming you. If you weren't so emotionally unattached then she wouldn't have made the choices she made. Do you see that?

Why are you allowing her to call the shots? If you feel that IC for her is essential to your healing and possible R why are you not demanding it?

You should be the one to call the shots at this point. When you try to talk to her about the A does she get angry, or try to switch things up and put the focus on your problems? If so this isn't remorse. This is sorry I got caught.

You don't have to make a decision today or tomorrow, or even next week. I would tell you to look at this whole situation as an outsider. Or if someone were doing what she is to one of your kids. How would you want them to handle it, how would you help them through it? This helped give me perspective, and was ultimatley the impetus I needed to draw my line in the sand, and stick to the consequences of those actions. Doing that finally cleared the fog for my H.

((((and strength))))