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I think it was just two or three weeks ago that The Princess let me know she had started on birth control. At the time, I started sobbing into the phone because I just couldn't handle it.

Last night, she came here to pick up the boys. As usual, I met her at the elevator, in case there were any parental things to discuss.

She asked how I was feeling, and I told the truth: The past couple of weeks I've been on this new (additional!) antidepressant, and doing some more stuff. As a result, I've been feeling MUCH better - possibly the happiest of my life. Mind you, I've felt pretty shitty for my whole life, on account of being a major depressive and all.

She said she was happy for me, then wanted to ask my advice about something. She confessed that she's been dating, and says it's nothing serious, but wants to tell the boys before they hear it somewhere else.

So she asked me how to phrase it best for them. She actually had it phrased pretty well, so they probably won't have a problem with it - or at least no more of a problem because of how she said it.

I think she was legitimately asking for advice, because I've always been the one to tell the boys difficult stuff. I just seem to get them better. So I take it as a huge compliment when she asks me how to tell them.

But here's the thing: I didn't cry; I didn't tear up; I didn't even have to look away to hide my feelings.

After she and the boys left, I had more time to think about it. It still makes me a little sad, and I get an empty feeling in my chest about it, but it's not upsetting.

Even in the middle of the night, when emotions usually run high, NO MORE TEARS!

Now, I'm an overly-sensitive guy, and totally knocked on my arse since I decided to divorce. So there will probably be other tears in future.

But I feel like this is progress.

And I fucking like it.

Nice work! I'm glad that The Princess gave you a heads up and wanted to get your input on how to best handle it with the kids-- mine did everything behind my back, and the kids then told me!

I have a little bit of a different take.

First off, I'm very happy for you, Pass, that you are starting to heal and starting to notice that things won't always be that way. It's nice when you realize that, although this still hurts sometimes, you never have to go back to that dark, dark place. She will never be able to bring you back there.

Where I differ a bit is in the way the conversation went. Not so much how you handled it - i promise, this is not a two by four.

It just pisses me off because I think she's just a nasty, cruel person to ask personal questions like you're still best buds and she truly is concerned with your well being. And then to be so kind as to make sure you know that she's dating even though it's not serious. If its not serious, you and your boys should know nothing about it. If they are not even close to meeting this person, it does no good to tell them. Like everything she does, I think her motive was mean and the conversation took place more to hurt you than to protect the kids. Next time she asks for your advice, I'd be tempted to tell her to grow up and act like a mother, not a fourteen year old high school girl.

I'm sorry. I just really have zero respect for her. I can almost see her teeny little smirk when she confesses these tid bits to you.

Honestly, the more NC with this one, the better. I would communicate with her by text or email only. It seems like she takes full advantage of those face to face encounters to get at least one nasty dig in.

It just pisses me off because I think she's just a nasty, cruel person to ask personal questions like you're still best buds and she truly is concerned with your well being. And then to be so kind as to make sure you know that she's dating even though it's not serious. If its not serious, you and your boys should know nothing about it. If they are not even close to meeting this person, it does no good to tell them. Like everything she does, I think her motive was mean and the conversation took place more to hurt you than to protect the kids. Next time she asks for your advice, I'd be tempted to tell her to grow up and act like a mother, not a fourteen year old high school girl.

I'm sorry. I just really have zero respect for her. I can almost see her teeny little smirk when she confesses these tid bits to you.

suckstobeme, you're very wise. She has had that little smirk for YEARS, and I should never underestimate how nasty and cruel she can be. You're probably totally right about her motives. God knows she's fooled me before.

AND I still have trouble totally detaching, but I'm getting a little further each day.

Thank you for your lack of respect for her. That shows me you've been paying attention, and you give a shit. Thanks so much.

Even though she probably fooled me about her motivations, I'm very happy that it didn't knock me on my arse again! I'll take every one of these small victories until I get the big one.

^^THIS.

There's an emotional bakery as well as a physical one. Close the bakery.

You need to stop talking to her friend - email/sms until she stops pulling this shit.

Seeing this as a compliment is you still seeking her validation - it is external validation. Consider the source and have a think about exactly how 'good' that validation is for you.

Just because you're not having an emotional outburst doesn't mean this stuff doesn't cause damage.

We have been manipulated for so long that we don't even realise it is happening, like a frog boiled slowly.

Do your boys really need to know their mother is dating casually? She wasn't trying to tell them - she was telling you.

F.T.G.

It just pisses me off because I think she's just a nasty, cruel person to ask personal questions like you're still best buds and she truly is concerned with your well being. And then to be so kind as to make sure you know that she's dating even though it's not serious. If its not serious, you and your boys should know nothing about it. If they are not even close to meeting this person, it does no good to tell them. Like everything she does, I think her motive was mean and the conversation took place more to hurt you than to protect the kids. Next time she asks for your advice, I'd be tempted to tell her to grow up and act like a mother, not a fourteen year old high school girl.

MY SENTIMENTS EXACTLY!!!!

What a total bitch to tell you she's on BC (to make sure you know she's fucking other guys) and then to tell you she's dating & wants to drag your INNOCENT CHILDREN through the emotional mud as she churns men in & out of their lives via the revolving door of dating.

What an idiot. Did you know that many divorce plans include clauses about not introducing every Tom, Dick & Harry to the kids unless you've been dating them for more than six months and are "serious" about a relationship? That's to protect the children's emotional health.

Please consult your attorney and a child psychologist immediately. Your STBX is about to fuck your kids up as bad as she's fucked you up.

She confessed that she's been dating, and says it's nothing serious, but wants to tell the boys before they hear it somewhere else.

And how the hell would they hear it from someone else? My guess is she's about to bring this guy around the kids.. And she will think it's okay since you and her warned them about it. I think you should have been more appalled that she wants to do this and refused to be a part of it, not supported her in the decision..

So she texted me last night:

"The boys seem okay with the dating thing. I thought they would care more about it! Thanks for the advice."

And then an hour later:

"I take it back. Now they're bugging me to find out who I've been dating. That's not happening! Ha ha!"

For once, I listened to some vital SI advice, and totally cricketed both these texts. No way am I going to make her feel better about making this a game with our boys!

AWESOME job on the crickets!

chirp chirp chirp

God, she's evil. Truly, truly evil.

Good for you to give her exactly what she deserves - silence! She needs to go somewhere else to get an ego stroke from now on.

suckstobeme, I definitely don't pretend to be worse off than the folks on here who have put up with abuse. I've never felt unsafe.

But you're right, there is definite evil in her. As I just said to someone in a PM, the wife I loved is dead ... If she ever existed.

It really did feel good to cricket her.

Pass, I understand. But, I suspect that the more you untangle yourself from her grip and the more you step out of the fog that we BS find ourselves in during the early stages, the more you will see and accept that her behavior was very abusive.

Okay, your body wasn't in any danger. But, your heart and soul has been crushed as much as anyone else on this board. Maybe more than most because your WW, from what you describe, actually gets off on making you hurt. She didnt just want a way out. She wanted to take you down on her way out the door. She likes to inflict hurt and seems to expend a lot of energy to find all sorts of new ways to bring on your pain.

Something is very wrong with her, and she's making you think, or at least made you think at one point, that the problem was you. You will one day learn to accept with your whole self that it wasnt. It's hard. I know. I too still find it hard to accept what a worthless, cowardly, cruel, narcissistic POS my ex really is and my heart will continue to break for my kids and what I suspect he will put them through. I can't hang myself with the rope of guilt anymore though. It is what it is. There is no more control over what they do. The control now lies within us. We control our own homes, how our lives will look, and how we raise our children when they are lucky enough to be with us.

As time goes on, you also will see that silence is the real power here. She, like my ex, is too selfish and defective for your words of reason to have any impact. They will bounce off her and somehow serve to hurt you. For that reason, stick to NC and let her search for her sick ya yas someplace else.

God, what a bitch.

Thank you, pass, for giving her crickets to those last two texts. It just fucking pisses me off that someone toys with her supposed loved ones like that.

I instantly had the same take as suckstobeme-she is a bitch

I think most women pick up on that right away and most men don't-men underestimate how catty some women can be

**note-I said MOST not ALL**

If she wants advice on how to tell the boys, she can go to a family counselor. She doesn't need to use you for everything, even if it is child related. I have seen D parents have these discussions in a healthy manner, but this doesn't strike me as one of those times. Instead of constructive criticism (ie- kiss, kick, kiss) it seems like she's doing kick, kiss, kick.

Between this and the BC conversation, I believe she told you this to keep you from moving on. My guess is as you get better, she will try to Hoover you back in with little digs or behaviors. Like dropping the kids of dressed as though she's meeting someone after.

You don't need to listen to her BC and dating tales. You're not her BFF, sitting at a cafe, giggling over coffee and talking about which tampon is the most absorbent.

The asking about your welfare was likely just part of an abusive pattern. Make your target think you care, then kick 'em while they thin they're safe. I'm not sure where your depression started, but I'd start looking at the possibility of mind games from her contributing to the length of the depressive issues you have.

I agree with those who said that she is telling you all of this to hurt you. There is ABSOLUTELY NO reason why you should know whether or not she is on birth control. Ever. She said that to sneakily rub it in your face that she is having sex with other men.

It reminds me of when my ex apologized for my being celibate. He didn't give two shits about the fact that I wasn't having sex, he just wanted to rub salt in the wound by reminding me that I was celibate but my HUSBAND was not.

Who does things like that? Mean-spirited, nasty, disordered people who take pleasure in the pain of someone they were supposed to love for life.

If she doesn't know how or when to break relationship news to the kids she could have Googled that shit. Ask a counselor, ask friends/relatives for input, call the psychic hotline, whatever. But you DON'T go to the guy who is clearly still grieving and recovering from the end of the relationship and ask him for advice about a new relationship and telling his children about a relationship that isn't even serious enough to be newsworthy yet. That's just evil.

HI Pass,

It sounds like there may be a new song in here?

I have a mixed response to your message and I feel like you do with Perv/Happy Pants, because it's been so long he's been "part of my life". It's a struggle sometimes to think of him as the enemy, even though I understand it.

My two cents is that at least The Princess let you know she wanted to speak to your children about something and gave you notice before doing it. I'm not sure if I would buy her story and am suspicious it was a way to tell you she was out doing stuff, but I don't know how much that matters?

That's one of my themes now and helps me get through. What matters? She could have just told them and you would have had questions from them to answer blindly-and may anyway, kids being kids-but I would take it for what it was and leave it, if you can.

It's done now. One less thing on the proverbial laundry list.

And I'm glad that was your reaction...I think it shows growth. It's something I'm striving for.

Perv/Happy Pants wanted to tell DD what he's really doing but I won't let him, because we are not yet divorced and there is an OW and tribe that he wants to integrate DD into-so I feel the Mama Bear coming out and feel his reasons aren't right-guilt.

No way am I going to make her feel better about making this a game with our boys!

She is lower than a snakes belly button. An arseholes arsehole.

Seriously - who the fuck does that?

DO NOT get sucked back in friend.

DO NOT buy the crazy she is selling.

I'm so sorry your boys are being dragged into this. Absolutely fucking disgraceful.

Repeat after me: There are no fish in this pond. This pond has no water. Fuck off.

Kids and finances. N/C, N/C, N/C.

Who, what, where and when she dates are not your concern. I really hate to say this, but how she tells the boys isn't either. Do you really believe she gives two shits about your opinion? If she disagreed with your advice, what would she have done.

Brother, she's playing you. I'm glad to see you recognize that fact. All the personal *inside* info she is giving you is specifically designed to keep you hurting. It really sucks that she is using the kids as a lever. It makes it hard to differentiate what is truly kid related.

She is NOT your friend! Lather, rinse repeat.

Strength

Strength

It just pisses me off because I think she's just a nasty, cruel person to ask personal questions like you're still best buds and she truly is concerned with your well being. And then to be so kind as to make sure you know that she's dating even though it's not serious. If its not serious, you and your boys should know nothing about it. If they are not even close to meeting this person, it does no good to tell them. Like everything she does, I think her motive was mean and the conversation took place more to hurt you than to protect the kids. Next time she asks for your advice, I'd be tempted to tell her to grow up and act like a mother, not a fourteen year old high school girl.

Yeah, ^^^^^^^^^^ exactly.