SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

We weren't effectively working on it together. I never came here with the intention of beating him down to some low-life scum. I was trying to give examples and address the questions tHat were asked. He is a great husband and a great dad and i want to he with him more than anything but he has some really deep rooted anger that is not being handled in a healthy way, much like i didnt handle my emotional issues in a good way. He has said this separation is good and I think it's going to be good because we're finally doing something to move forward. He's in IC, were talking, we're sharing fears and feelings... All things we weren't doing before he left. If we both feel it was the right move, I don't understand why everyone is hung up on telling me its wrong. Has no one here ever gone through a separation to help heal their marriage? If both parties agree its best, who is anyone else to say its not worth trying when nothing else has?

Look at the obvious. You are working well a.p.a.r.t. Not together. It needs to be versatile. You work well both ways.

Did you come here for our advice or advice that resembles what you are already doing? Look at UO'S post count..this woman has given great advice to many. If you can't work this out together in the same house, your marriage is through. Work on fixing why you cheated.

I am sure your BH realizes he has anger issue.Marriages are fixed by working on them together as a couple. Each person working along with the other to reconcile their differences.

Tryingandfailing, while you say you are both ok with the seperation the title of your thread is "I kicked him out". That's bullshit to me. Completely.

You can't have it both ways. You feel completely safe and think he's a wonderful father, yet you are being abused. What? It's one or the other.

No one is saying you need to feel unsafe because you're a wayward. Not seeing what you've described as abuse. I'm not there. I'm not you.

I can only share what I saw. Tons of info on him and his actions zippededooda about yours until like the 5th request.

If you both decided to seperate then unless you're a drama student perhaps a better title of the thread would have been in order.

Since you seem to both have this seperation thing handled not sure what help you need. You seem to think he needs to shoulder some of the work. I think he's a long way from being able to even start. Now he's away from his daughter and you're telling him he needs to hoop hop for you to feel comfortable about being around him.

I would ask you to think about something. You feel by him pulling your tube top down that you don't want to be near him or even talk to him. What do you think he feels about proximity to you after your tube top and pretty much everything else was removed by someone not your husband.

I know you're new here and I might be a different posting style for your needs right now. There are many very wise members who can help you. I urge you to put the hurt collecting on hold and take a tally of the unilateral decisions you've made for your husband. You may see how he can be more than a little pissed and not have a good handle on how to cope.

[This message edited by uncertainone at 7:21 PM, July 25th (Thursday)]

I feel disgusted that deep down this is how he thinks of me and I will not put myself in a situation to have a repeat of that experience until he convinces me we're really on the road to recovery. If he can't do that, I can't be in this M. I lost his trust and respect, but that doesn't mean that for as long as he chooses to be apart of this M that he doesn't have to maintain mine.

Why does this disgust you?

Look, you can't put the responsibility of repairing this M in his hands. This is your job. You blew it up. Is he responsible for his behavior? Yes. But trying to work on R while S doesn't work well, my H and I tried it for 5 months. I finally had to tell him either I moved back in or we filed. Nothing was getting accomplished with me being out of the house. And we were doing MC once a week, and I was doing IC. Have you done any IC for yourself?

I don't often- or really ever- disagree with either UO or FRM, and I'm all for 2x4's along with everyone else, but I have gotta say- this is 2 1/2 years post d-day- not 2 1/2 months or weeks. I know everyone heals on their own timeline, but it's been long enough for him to at least start the process for himself. This is not a brand new WS- she's just new to us.

Last year, almost 3 years after d-day, my H quit his job of 18 years with all benefits because he didn't like it anymore. I believe his exact words were, "You didn't consult me when you fucked our friend, why should I have to consult you about gigantic life decisions like quitting my job?" You know what? Point taken. My take-a-shit meter is awfully high because I realize what I have done. I knew I had exploded his existence as he knew it, and so, even 3 years later, I said OK- go do. Be happy. It's been 14 months now that he hasn't worked- hasn't sent out one resume, in fact- and last month, I finally told him that he had to find a job, or he had to find somewhere else to live. This isn't about my A. It's about whether or not we're going to at least be a cohesive unit that launches our children off into some sense of stability. Everything that a WS is supposed to do, I did (without even knowing that I was supposed to do it) IC, MC (by myself) NC, no TT, full story out in a matter of weeks, honesty, transparency, calling and taking pics of where I was, crying, snotting, begging, remorse... You get the idea... There is only so much we can do- and so we can try different ways. I love my H- very much. I desperately want him to try and find a way to forgive me and be married and be in love and share and be partners... Maybe it's a dealbreaker and I am healed enough now to be ok with that. There's only so much fighting and going around in circles until SOMETHING has to change.

We tell WSes all the time not to put a time-line on healing, but 2 1/2 years is long enough for a BS to figure out how start healing- to at least make an effort. We tell WSes that have been posting since d-day at 2 and 3 years out all the time. Why is this different? Abuse and humiliation at 2 1/2 years out seems to be little excessive, and I don't know the whole story, either, but if a separating, cool-down, let's-figure-out-how-to-pull-this-thing-together time is needed, then it's what is needed. I have no idea (and neither does anyone else) how many different things tryingandfailing tried before this was her last straw. I happen to agree that it is VERY difficult to heal a marriage apart- but it can be done. And it has been done. WSes have choices, too. We can stop the bleeding from the life threatening wound that WE have inflicted, but we can't give our BSes the will to live after that. Her BS HAS to take over at some point and figure out how to heal. And just because she is not flogging herself in guilt and self-loathing doesn't mean she's not horribly sorry for her choices. (and I know that's not what is expected).

She wants her marriage to work. She, 2 1/2 years later, doesn't want to be treated like shit under his shoe, but also doesn't want to give him a list of thing to do to make HER feel better about the marriage- because it's pretty clear to me that she is pretty aware of her role in the destruction...

Sounds pretty normal to me...

I am extremely passionate about this, apparently. My keyboard just took a beating...

Boy... I don't ever disagree with TG, either, but this:

Look, you can't put the responsibility of repairing this M in his hands. This is your job.

I 100% disagree. From your posts, I think I know that you and HL have done a whole lot of repairing your marriage TOGETHER Not just you- not just him. You got to a place where you could work together to heal your broken M.

Please, understand, I know that the triage work has to be done by the WS, but once (if ever) the trauma is manageable, the BS has to be involved in the M rebuilding. It's not a one-sided relationship. It's supposed to be a partnership- rebuilding takes more than one person- repairing takes both...

I recognize that this subject hits WAY close to home, so if I need to, I'll step back...

She wants her marriage to work. She, 2 1/2 years later, doesn't want to be treated like shit under his shoe

I get what you're saying, trying. Didn't see that she was being treated like that.

I agree with the take shit meter. That's why I am backing out. I do think Yoga, journaling and meditating ain't the tools needed. That's just me, though and kick boxing is more my style.

Be kind to your keyboard. Those little suckers are quite valuable

Keep posting, trying. I've said what I feel and will let others that may see a different approach weigh in.

trying your right about HL and I. But the first two years were spent with me busting my ass while he did nothing. I fixed me, and tried to help him. I realized the best thing I could give him was me with my shit fixed. I carried the weight. And when HL messed up, he carried the weight, and then we learned to carry it together.

I agree that her H at some point has to start his healing process. I have an issue when a WW comes on here and focus's solely on the actions of her H. And then he ends up kicked out due to anger and triggers. HL still gets pissed at over three years out, is he doing what her H is? No. But then again, he is here on SI because he royally fucked up in another way.

JMHO, as a WW if you want to R, you better get used to a very pissed off H because you decided to go fuck someone else. I see the whole tube top thing as very passive aggressive. I find it interesting that she has an issue with how he sees her now.

UO, I understand that we have a very small picture of this story, and it's possible that I just might be projecting. (My keyboard would agree that it's possible that I am projecting...) Your insights are always invaluable, and I wish you wouldn't step back. t/j- I don't like that I can't PM you anymore, sister :)

From a few of her posts, it seems to me that trying wants to NOT focus on or talk about all of the hurtful things that her BH has done because she wants the focus to be on their healing- even though she's asked him to leave (and I agree, UO, that "I kicked him out" sends up immediate "Oh NO YOU DIDN'T!!!" reactions). I try hard not to involve my H's As (RA's and others I found out about after d-day) when I post, as rarely as that is, because I'm still working on me- I want to fix ME- and I came here to fix US. Fixing me was the byproduct...

I agree, TG, the best possible thing that can be done when your BS does nothing is to be and give the best "you" that you can. I am assuming- you know what that does- that she is trying to do this- and has done this for the last 2 1/2 years. It is my understanding from her posts that she wants to save her marriage (Love talking about her in the 3rd person as if she can't "see" me) She's not looking for pats on the back for "throwing the asshole out." She's looking for guidance and is open to suggestions about making her a better her- I think.

Again, I'm all for 2x4's for struggling, head-up-their-ass Waywards, I just don't see that here- and I have aready said that this is close to home for me, so my approach to this is different.

You are all tremendous at making WSes dig deep and look at the painful things that we've done, and I learn everyday from all of you... My perspective on this one is, admittedly, different...

[This message edited by trytoforgive at 8:36 PM, July 25th (Thursday)]

I don't often- or really ever- disagree with either UO or FRM, and I'm all for 2x4's along with everyone else, but I have gotta say- this is 2 1/2 years post d-day- not 2 1/2 months or weeks. I know everyone heals on their own timeline, but it's been long enough for him to at least start the process for himself. This is not a brand new WS- she's just new to us.

Last year, almost 3 years after d-day, my H quit his job of 18 years with all benefits because he didn't like it anymore. I believe his exact words were, "You didn't consult me when you fucked our friend, why should I have to consult you about gigantic life decisions like quitting my job?" You know what? Point taken. My take-a-shit meter is awfully high because I realize what I have done. I knew I had exploded his existence as he knew it, and so, even 3 years later, I said OK- go do. Be happy. It's been 14 months now that he hasn't worked- hasn't sent out one resume, in fact- and last month, I finally told him that he had to find a job, or he had to find somewhere else to live. This isn't about my A. It's about whether or not we're going to at least be a cohesive unit that launches our children off into some sense of stability. Everything that a WS is supposed to do, I did (without even knowing that I was supposed to do it) IC, MC (by myself) NC, no TT, full story out in a matter of weeks, honesty, transparency, calling and taking pics of where I was, crying, snotting, begging, remorse... You get the idea... There is only so much we can do- and so we can try different ways. I love my H- very much. I desperately want him to try and find a way to forgive me and be married and be in love and share and be partners... Maybe it's a dealbreaker and I am healed enough now to be ok with that. There's only so much fighting and going around in circles until SOMETHING has to change.

We tell WSes all the time not to put a time-line on healing, but 2 1/2 years is long enough for a BS to figure out how start healing- to at least make an effort. We tell WSes that have been posting since d-day at 2 and 3 years out all the time. Why is this different? Abuse and humiliation at 2 1/2 years out seems to be little excessive, and I don't know the whole story, either, but if a separating, cool-down, let's-figure-out-how-to-pull-this-thing-together time is needed, then it's what is needed. I have no idea (and neither does anyone else) how many different things tryingandfailing tried before this was her last straw. I happen to agree that it is VERY difficult to heal a marriage apart- but it can be done. And it has been done. WSes have choices, too. We can stop the bleeding from the life threatening wound that WE have inflicted, but we can't give our BSes the will to live after that. Her BS HAS to take over at some point and figure out how to heal. And just because she is not flogging herself in guilt and self-loathing doesn't mean she's not horribly sorry for her choices. (and I know that's not what is expected).

She wants her marriage to work. She, 2 1/2 years later, doesn't want to be treated like shit under his shoe, but also doesn't want to give him a list of thing to do to make HER feel better about the marriage- because it's pretty clear to me that she is pretty aware of her role in the destruction...

Thank you for commenting. I'm a sobbing mess but I cant express enough how much I appreciate hearing that someone understands.

As I said in my first post, I've never posted before but I've been reading a long time. I know how shredded new WSers get when they come on here pointing fingers and denying blame and I genuinely think that the advice here is great. Even without posting it has helped me a lot. It was not my intent to come here and do that -- this separation is very new and I feel like I'm walking into it blindly. I was hoping to get suggestions and hear from others on how to make it a positive one. Just because I feel strongly that the separation is the right step right now, doesn't mean I have all the answers. It also doesn't mean I expect people to come here and only tell me what I want to hear -- I know thats not how this community works and its one of the things that makes it most effective.

uncertain, IDK if I just wasn't clear in my descriptions of our relationship or if you are only choosing to read certain parts but I don't thrive on drama and I'm not changing my story. His departure was not something we sat down and agreed on in advance. He didn't want to go and despite begging to stay I asked him to leave anyway. It wasn't in a fight, there were not mean things said, I just informed him that after the weekend events we needed some space to figure out a plan for how we're going to move forward instead of continuing this ugly, devastating pattern we've been in since d-day. After he left I felt like garbage for asking him to go which is where the title of my post came from and I stated so in my original post. He left grudgingly, but after a day away he told me he thought this was a good move and that good things were going to come of it. The same day he made an appointment with an IC and saw her the day after that.

As far as the abuse goes, its not physical and its not all the time but it happens. I'm not afraid in the sense that I don't expect to end up in the hospital or a grave but that doesn't make it any less hurtful or harmful. I'm not afraid in the sense that I know its sporadic and targeted as a response to his untreated pain. But after two years of putting up with it and letting it go under the vail of "I deserve this -- I hurt him so its ok for him to hurt me", there need to be turning point for when we start to work through it and take steps to improve the situation so neither of us is any longer inflicting new pain on the other.

I do think Yoga, journaling and meditating ain't the tools needed. That's just me, though and kick boxing is more my style.

So you've been around a while. Do you generally go around telling people what's helping them heal and improve themselves can't be working because it isn't what you would do? Would you tell someone who turned to god that that is the "wrong" way to go about it? I think you're pretty righteous to assume you know what works for everyone and what doesn't. Of all the attacking I've taken in this thread, this is probably the most offensive thing I've read.

[This message edited by tryingandfailing at 11:20 PM, July 25th (Thursday)]

Look at the obvious. You are working well a.p.a.r.t. Not together. It needs to be versatile. You work well both ways.

Did you come here for our advice or advice that resembles what you are already doing? Look at UO'S post count..this woman has given great advice to many. If you can't work this out together in the same house, your marriage is through. Work on fixing why you cheated.

I am sure your BH realizes he has anger issue.Marriages are fixed by working on them together as a couple. Each person working along with the other to reconcile their differences.

Again I feel like selective reading is in play here. This is great advice for someone who's BH is willing to put in the effort to work it out together. Mine was not. He would only agree to it when he felt badly about how he had treated me, and then a couple days later when the dust settled it was no longer a priority for him and it got pushed to the wayside. Over, and over, and over, and over again. I CANNOT WORK ON US BY MYSELF, I can only work on me and my actions and I have and it was time well spent because I don't think we could make progress together today if I was still the same person I was two years ago, but at some point there has to be a joint effort if we're ever going to really start to recover. I'm not telling anyone here anything they don't know and that I haven't read here 100 times.

Thank you for your unjustified assumption about my marriage being over but thats not how I see it. The way I see it is we tried one thing that failed (several times) and to sit around doing the same thing hoping for different results is not progress. Instead, we're trying to navigate a new approach and hoping for a better outcome.

So you've been around a while. Do you generally go around telling people what's helping them heal and improve themselves can't be working because it isn't what you would do?

Do you feel you have improved yourself? Trying, I'm not you or in your situation. I did not choose to reconcile with my ex for a number of reasons. A big one? I had no ability to respect ANY pain he could show me. None. He never did and refused to see my actions as cheating as they were never hidden. I recognized in order to build I'd need to shoulder that load as I had made those choices.

Coupled with that realization was the recognition of the true horror I had inflicted on myself. The internal work was painful. Still is at times. As I evicted, examined, identified thought processes I created a vacuum. For every toxic coping skill and pattern I eradicated there also had to be a healthy one created, learned, tried in real time and assessed. I still stumble.

I am far from an authority and don't claim to be. Your story struck me for a number of reasons. While each story is a bit different there are some similarities that establish a commonality, of sorts. A starting point. Patterns. If you've lurked for a bit you see the first posters. Reeling after reality sets in. Trying to wrap their minds around the destruction we caused ourselves and our families.

All that was missing from your posts. Yes, you acknowledge your part. You focused on his and the need for him to leave. I get you didn't feel like posting details or bashing your husband but that void is usually filled with a pretty fair picture of at least "our" choices to cheat and how that mess started. Nowhere. No length. No context of what happened. How is was discovered. Just his vague lack of dealing and your frustration he hadn't rebuilt his confidence or desire to remain because of you rather than inspite of you.

I've apologized if I've missed something. I've re-read your posts. I will defend anyone regardless of label I feel is being treated unfairly or harshly.

Kicking your spouse out is a very extreme act. As you yourself stated. It's disruptive to your daughter. Painful for all. With so little initially provided it was stunningly unfair response to such a harsh set of actions that the cluster fuck of cheating is, to me. I took time before responding and wrote my post to you at least 6 times.

If I didn't feel you cared about your family I honestly wouldn't have bothered. I do. I also think that there are things that maybe have been dismissed or overlooked. You say you've changed how you treat him. Well, isn't removing him as harsh as it could pretty much get?

You're right that it takes two. Maybe there were Herculean efforts made that did not work. I don't know as none have been talked about.

Getting through betrayal is tough. Maybe it's a deal breaker for him. Maybe for you. Can you tell if he's cycling? Do you reach out? Have you let go of outcomes? What triggers him?

Unjustified?

You have a way of taking a stab at people when they don't see things as you do. I can agree that the way you were going wasn't working.

However, saying a marriage can't work apart is not unjustified.It's a band-aid on gaping wound (being apart).

I can tell you are use to having things your way or at least go your way.

Your BH getting IC is good. If his anger is that bad he definitely needs it.

I somehow missed the 2.5 years.Forgive me.

One thing to remember is you cannot change people if they don't want to change or don't realize they need to. What you can change is yourself and the things you know you do that hurt the marriage.

Him pulling your top down was out of line,however you sending him away against his will was too.

The pain of infidelity lasts for years. Year 2 is the worst. Your BH needs to lay off the drinking so he doesn't let the alcohol compound his anger.

My take on his behavior is he embarrasses you out of immaturity and because he has also been embarrassed by your betrayal.

I also believe he needs to get a job. I believe you love him,but you also resent him. I believe the separation helps you not resent him further.

However, you two will have to be able to work this out together under the same roof or this marriage will fail.

You have painted him the color of monster on here,but your betrayal makes you a monster to him. You two are really going to have to cooperate to save this marriage.

A word of caution, if you try to guide us on what we should post to you,then most people are going to bow out. There is no way to pour water in a glass that's already full.

Still seeing a problem here. Am I the only one? He did that, then "snickered" about it, then got angry because you had a problem being exposed in public? Am I getting this right?

Having an affair is a horrible coping mechanism. So is humiliating your spouse in public.

I totally agree.

Had anyone ever pulled down my shirt in public, not only once but twice in front of friends and family (or ever for that matter), they'd not only be escorted from my home but if I had my way, they'd be in fucking jail.

I love this forum, but I don't get this response from the majority at all.

Since it's been years from Dday, and the BH is pulling this sort of shit and threatening suicide, not working, and having angry outbursts whilst drinking? And molesting his wife in public?

Please, child.

{{{tryingandfailing}}}

You're the one riding this horse, so you're the only one making the decisions here, not us. I'd have made the same ones if I were you. smile:

Hopefully he'll get a job.

[This message edited by FinallyHappy at 4:08 AM, July 26th (Friday)]

If you both decided to seperate then unless you're a drama student perhaps a better title of the thread would have been in order.

Yes. Because all newbies are more concerned about the title of their thread than getting help when they're desperate, hurting, and mostly ignorant to the dynamics.

I'm sure you've never been that ignorant, self-entitled newbie, have you?

I would ask you to think about something. You feel by him pulling your tube top down that you don't want to be near him or even talk to him.

Good. Lord.

They were at an out of town gathering of family and friends (Two years after Dday). He got drunk and PULLED HER TOP DOWN TWICE. Then suggested he was going to jump off a bridge and apparently this wasn't the worst of it.

He repeats this behavior every 3-4 months. I wouldn't accept it either. That. is. abuse.

I mean, could you imagine how this scenario would play out if it was a BW/WH?

So let's see. Two (and more) years after finding out about the affair, the BW and the WH go out of town for a family/friend event. The BW gets drunk and cuts the pants off the WH in front of all, leaving his dangly bits on display. TWICE. She then yells and screams and threatens to jump off a bridge. And a bunch of other stuff.

I'll tell you what. Neither situation would be accepted in my FOO or my reality. EVER.

He needs help. I'm sure glad he might get it now. If so, perhaps they have a chance.

FinallyHappy

That was what I was trying to get at with those questions. There really seems to be a disconnect here. At 2.5 years somehow public humiliation is a reasonable response? I don't think so.

I get it. I've been in the middle of this mess I've created long enough to know that there are times, even after a couple years out that a BS' pain sends them off the rails. Everyone' reaction to betrayal is different as much as it us the same.

The problem I'm having is that he CHOSE to humiliate her by pulling her top down. Her tolerance for that behavior belongs to her alone. If she needs a break to allow him to pull together his priorities, that makes sense to me. Sounds like he may be responding positively to this "extreme action.".

Look, I agree that R while separated is not a good idea. I'm seeing this more as her telling him to take some time to decide where he's at and do some things that make the M work for both of them.

Tryingandfailing- you have every right to decide what treatment you are willing to forgive in the context of your situation. Him humiliating you may be an expression of the humiliation he feels, or it may be a way of him saying "hey, you went out and showed your stuff to someone else so why can't I do it?" I get that, doesn't make it right.

Suppose he comes back home, what happens if he doesn't get a job? If he drinks again? If he does something like that again?

How are you treating him? Is it possible you've reached a point of perceived complacency and that's setting him off? I'm not justifying his actions, but you've also acted in a way that can't be justified. It really does take two. You are aware that he's still in pain. What part of this do you own?

[This message edited by longroadhome at 7:41 AM, July 26th (Friday)]

You have painted him the color of monster on here,but your betrayal makes you a monster to him. You two are really going to have to cooperate to save this marriage

This is why she is getting the responses she is.

Difficult to post to a WW who's first post on here is about kicking out her BH and no backstory is given about her choices and the work she has done. She has not focused at all on the fact that she has caused massive destruction in this man's life. Some time spent on discussing that may have netted her different responses.

I also don't want to sit here and complain about my BH and make him sound like a monster because I know hes hurting and I love him and I'm here to help us get better, not to justify my actions or sway people to my side.

We compliment each other greatly in a lot of ways. He is so much more of a nurturing, caretaking parent than I am and DD needs that every day -- I don't think I'm a bad parent but we parent differently and fill different roles for her.

He is a great husband and a great dad and i want to he with him more than anything

I must be missing something here, I really don't see how I have painted him as a monster. What I have said is that I am hurt from his coping methods and inability to let us work together, that I am concerned for him, and that I want to do what it takes to make this better. I'm sorry for not covering details of 2.5 years of self and relationship healing work into my first post -- I'd still be writing my post from 3 days ago if I had tried to do that.

I'm not afraid of criticism and the advice isn't falling on deaf ears but but it seems to me that if there are missing details that would make it easier to give advice, it probably makes more sense to ask questions than make assumptions about what I have or haven't done and whether or not I've done my part in this. I mean honestly, how do you take seriously the advice from someone who said that your BHs suicide threats seemed more like a cry of pain than an action they might execute on? Thats not helpful to anyone.

Everyone seems to agree that while the WS has much individual work to do, we need to work on this together. What I'm not seeing here is suggestions for how to do that. I feel like his actions are very normal for someone who has just found out and maybe for several months after that but if after 2.5 YEARS your BS isn't opening up, telling you what they need, expressing when they are hurt/angry/frustrated/insecure, how can I still work toward meeting what he needs from me to heal? Obviously his new IC and eventually our MC will be a huge part of that but I know its not all of it.

[This message edited by tryingandfailing at 10:01 AM, July 26th (Friday)]

First off: this sounds like a really difficult and painful situation. I'm glad you're here and I'm glad you're talking about this stuff.

There has been a lot of back and forth on this topic. The thing that keeps jumping out at me is that you, the OP, keep asking for what you can do to make this separation a healing event rather than a step toward divorce or dissolution.

It is good and important to be proactive. But there is also too much of a good thing. One of the lessons that is hardest to learn is that each person has to carry his or her own water. You need to develop your own capacity to deal with hard situations healthily. So does your husband.

A WS can try to help a BS heal, but ultimately the BS him or herself has to do it. That's just the shitty simple fact.

You and your husband are people, human beings with human flaws. You both were before the A and you both are after. It sounds like you both had some real difficulty coping effectively with tough situations before the A. Your A was one example of a poor means of coping. It sounds like you have done some good work on fixing some of that which is great. Because the only person you can heal is yourself.

Some people are holding your feet to the fire because its really easy up delude oneself about accountability sometime. That's ok.

The thing is, even if you have completely got your act together, it is up to your husband and him alone to get his act together.

It is not your fault that he has not gotten a job and become a self-supporting adult.

It is not your fault he drinks.

It is not your fault that he stuffs his emotions until they explode in a caustic mess when he's drunk.

It can both be true that you made a rotten choice in dealing with a tough situation AND your husband is doing the same.

You don't have to put up with abuse. You don't have to live with someone who humiliates you in public. It is not only good that you have boundaries, it is ESSENTIAL that you have boundaries.

And that extends to boundaries around what you CANNOT be responsible for. You can't make him be a responsible, sober person with well developed conflict management skills. You can't.

You can draw your boundaries and insist he abide by them. You get to do that. Even if you are human and fucked up once upon a time you get to do that.

You are best served, no matter what, to hold yourself to equally high standards, of respectful treatment and honesty and compassion, without compromising yourself.

These are some of the hardest things to learn, but they're the best you can hope for out of really hard marital crunches like this.

Hang in there. Good luck. I think you made a hard choice but a good one. Do done reading about codependency and think about where the limits of your responsibility really are.

I never wanted to give ultimatums and I know that you can't put a timeframe on healing but in the course of 2.5 years I've tried really hard to improve things on my end for what feels like no reason when he just holds all of his emotions in and pretends like nothing is wrong. Then there are these violent and hurtful outbursts that are so damaging and make me feel (among a myriad of emotions) like we've made 0 progress and I'm just wasting both of our time sticking around.

It feels like a record on repeat. He wants to R, things are great, he hits a trigger (usually when drunk), the next day he feels bad and begs me to forgive him and stay, I do. Repeat. His outbursts are violent (typically toward himself -- punching, banging his head on things, etc) and when I get upset he threatens me with suicide. Its really ugly.

The other part that is probably really relevant to our situation is that BH is very dependent on me. As mentioned he's a SAHD. He doesn't have many friends and only goes out and does things without me when I beg him to.

He did take anti-depressants for a while and it was awful... really awful. I felt like I lived with a zombie -- no emotion, no energy, no happieness, just a being that went through the motions of getting out of bed and doing the bear minimum to get through the day. After a while he stopped taking them and, admittedly, I was relieved. An angry husband is better than a lifeless one.

These make him seem to be the main reason your marriage is in the condition it is in.

Has he always been as you described?