SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

my mother shot my father 5 times, laid the gun on the ground and watched him take his last breath on this Earth. I was 15 years old. She was an abusive monster. She has been in prison 31 years.

My dad was an amazing father and was getting remarried just 3 days later. Some people are just evil. You never get over things like that. Never. Not even 31 years later.

@fdup

In the first few weeks after d-day I was a victim of physical violence. I let it happen, I felt I deserved it and if that was what she needed to do to release then she could

I found this post and I have been thinking about this subject and just didnt know how to put it. As fdup said is how I felt. I have cause this pain and anger by having an A, I felt I deserve every punch, slap, push, verbal, and scratch because I pushed her to this point. After three incidents I told myself enough on the physical, I can take verbal all day but physical I was done with.

The fourth time it happened I got slapped 2 times and I got angry so walked away and from that of course I made the situation worst then from that I felt I deserve it again because I started feeling horrible again because I see how hurt she is and that is fine, she apologized but its still fine because I caused this.

I know its wrong to get physical from both parties but is it wrong that you feel like you deserve it because of the pain and suffering you caused someone else. You dragged them through hell and back and destroyed their whole entire world and dont expect some repercussion from it, I think you deserved all that. I'm just a confused person right now and I just want her to vent her anger out and who is the best person to do that to than the person that have caused the issue.

BW here.

I slapped FWH on two separate occasions, both shortly after dday. It was absolutely wrong. And, the second time, it scared the crap out of me. I know this sounds horrible, but it felt good. It made me feel powerful at a time when I was powerless. That when I knew it was a problem, and I asked for forgiveness. I will never allow myself to come close to that line again. I feel shame for being that person, and I regret it more than anything I've ever done.

My sensei always told us when I was training as a kid and teen that the moment you lose your temper is the moment you lost the fight. He said that even if you beat your opponent to a bloody pulp, you still lost because you lost control over yourself.

I am completely guilty of this. It angers me because quite frankly, I usually walk away. I've always walked away, but what ShellShockedSid said is very true. Does that condone my actions? He'll no, and it devastates me that I've become my Dad essentially.

This entire situation is becoming an incredible shit storm. It brings out the worst things in people; the worst characteristics that someone never thought they possessed within themselves or, on the flipside, characteristics they've always been terrified that they possessed and of which would eventually rear it's ugly head.

Abuse is wrong regardless; I feel like I should know better than most because I was trained to not lose my temper at all, and this situation makes me feel like things have undone a lot of things. This not a bid for sympathy; it's just incredible how broken people are or how broken they become.

I can't see that placing additional rather than equal blame for the same choice will ever help that.

I think the status quo places "additional rather than equal blame" on abusive men, no? So, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think UO was trying to inspire some intolerance from the victims of the often overlooked or unreported other side. I think balance is the goal here.

I can't see that placing additional rather than equal blame for the same choice will ever help that.

There's that word again. Blame. Can we leave the nursery school playground for a moment and quit the blame game?

Just reading on this site you can see the difference in how DV is treated. Some have posted with glee and fuck him. He deserved it. It's no longer about him anymore. You just crossed the rubicon. You can never take back what you've done to yourself. You have allowed yourself to let another's actions forever change who you are.

Taurus and f'up (just saw your story. I missed it. Dear God!!!), please please stop letting her injure you or herself. Her abuse is damaging her right along with you. Your actions have consequences. Being beaten ain't one of them. Just as you could leave so could she. She could start divorce proceedings. She's now starting that cycle. She loads on it. Every time she entitles herself to feel that rage and lash you with it she's hard coded that reward and dissolving any integrity she has.

You betrayed her. The shit she's doing now has nothing at all to do with you or your affair. It has everything to do with her, her choices, who she is. Just as an affair is not about the spouse or marriage neither is this shit. It's about power and control and you have both to stop this now. You need to. Stop. This. Now. Not one more hit, punch, scratch. Get yourself to safety and call the cops. Same exact thing we tell women. Violence doesn't know moderation.

[This message edited by uncertainone at 2:15 AM, August 23rd (Friday)]

(((ArkLaMiss)))

Oh, God!!! I'm so so sorry.

Uncertainone, I felt the need to log in and reply to this topic.

In college I worked along side our Women's Resource center. While most were very compassionate women AND men, there were a few that I had to shake my head at. On a few occasions during group sessions I heard 1-2 female *women's advocates* give free passes to women who assaulted the men in their lives. Not out of self defense but anger. The motivation is the problem like you said. Women have reasons, men are assholes. BS control yourself. Slap or punch who cares? Physical damage is never okay. It is abuse regardless of who throws the fist.

My thought is that someone who hits in anger (BS or WS) feels they have some sort of power and a sense of entitlement. I've worked in social services. Extreme anger quickly loses boundaries and spreads to other people. Think you can limit your rage to your BS/WS spouse? Guess again. Your children, pets, family, friends, co-workers, paperboy/girl will be feeling some of your ire. It will escalate too if you choose not to reign it in.

(((ArkLaMiss))) I am so sorry. I know what it's like to live with an abusive mother.

POSTING AS A MEMBER

Women hit men because they think they can get away with it. It's really just that simple.

I don't think it's simple at all. We all try to find the "whys" for our behavior here, but the complexity of each individual, and the relationship in question, is so deep that I have a hard time with agreeing that "Women hit men because they think they can get away with it."

I know - I DREAD that this is getting back into the old argument of "does the 'out-of-control' state actually exist or is it an excuse?"

The thing is, the only true case that I can report on of a woman hitting a man is my own because I am supposed to be in charge of my brain and body and I was there the day I slapped the hell out of him.

The thing is - I. WASN'T. THINKING.

I didn't remember I was female, he wasn't a male. We weren't in a room painted blue and he wasn't sitting and I wasn't standing. All that existed of me for those three to five seconds was white hot rage and a slapping hand. I remember pain and wind, and when I look back upon the moment it is as if I am floating over my own body, watching it happen in horror.

Am I accountable for what I did? YES

Should the police have been called to haul my ass off for attacking another person? ABSOLUTELY

Was the fact that I was a woman and Crazz a man part of a gigantic double standard regarding how women seem to get away with being physical with men at a disturbingly disproportionate rate? YES AGAIN.

It is not ok. Ever ever ever. A man should never have to give up his physical or emotional rights to anyone.

The point I'm taking issue with is the comment above. That women do it because they think they can get away with it. Maybe some do, but I definitely didn't. I wasn't thinking at all, and when I recaptured my errant brain cells and saw the moment for what it was, I was horrified and ashamed.

There are some BW's here who seem to fit that same description, and it is in defense of them that I wanted to say something. Their actions are not defensible, but I don't like the idea that they are being labeled as having somehow premeditated the attack. Some may have, but not all. Certainly not me.

Jrazz, I didn't say it was premeditated. Totally different thing. What I stated was they think they can get away with it. You know why? Because they do. All the time.

This may be an annonymous site but it is a public forum. Ever see men posting about whacking their wife, throwing a phone at them, kicking them? I haven't. Ever. Not even joked about hypothetically. Why? Most men know all too well it's not a casual or joking matter. It's time, legal fees, supervised visitation, no access to their home. Hell, that's when accused waiting for trial whether they did it or not.

Seeing how many posts made by women, some very remorseful, others not only not but quite proud of it, yeah, I'm thinking they felt pretty confident they'd face no consequences legally. About 90% haven't.

One member on this thread had his wife throw a mason jar at him. On the floor bleeding. Think she was worried about cops and cuffs? She should be.

I do have a real hard time accepting the "I wasn't thinking at all". Maybe because it has NEVER been tolerated on this forum regardless of bi-polar manic episodes, snot slinging drunk, hiiiiigggghhhhh.

I remember the first time my ex struck me. Every cell in my body turned into a fist. I knew if I did that I'd be sitting in the back of a squad car, right where I should be.

Until a woman hitting a man carries the same social stigma (and legal consequences) as a man hitting a woman, things won’t change.

I don’t think the reason a betrayed wife lashes out physically at her wayward husband IS because she thinks she will get away with it – I don’t think rational thought even enters the equation. She hits because she can, AND the fact IS, she will (99% of the time) not just get away with no legal repercussions, she will also often get kudos from some quarters too.

I have witnessed this happen often when a woman attacks a man, but I have never witnessed it when a man attacks a woman, certainly where infidelity is concerned. I have never heard a betrayed husband being told not to be too hard on himself for slapping his wayward wife around on d-day, but I have heard various versions of that excuse trotted out when a betrayed wife has attacked her wayward husband.

People in Singapore don’t throw litter on the ground half as much as people in US/UK/France or wherever, I don’t think this has anything do with inherent differences in Singaporeans versus the other nationalities, no, it has to do with the fact that Singaporeans knows they’re going to get a considerable monetary fine if they do so, so they refrain from doing it.

Lack of social stigma coupled with lack of legal repercussions allows wrong doing not only to continue, but to flourish.

[This message edited by AnneOther at 4:17 AM, August 23rd (Friday)]

Well, since everyone wants to argue about who does what, this link seems to contraindicate the view that men are brutes and women are angelic delicate little flowers.

http://www.domesticviolenceresearch.org/pages/12_page_findings.htm

The methodology for collecting data in the previous link

http://www.victimsofcrime.org/library/crime-information-and-statistics/intimate-partner-violence

is clearly flawed as it is based on criminal statistics, and will thus carry all of the biases associated with the law and it's applications. Besides the old fashioned ideas, one of the reasons for this fallacy is the consequences of these violent acts. Men tend to be larger, I am used to being 20% taller than the women in my life, and 50% to 70% heavier, then there are the general skeletal efficiencies. (did you know that for the same weight class in powerlifting men are expected to be able to lift as much as 40% more?) Men are generally capable of inflicting more serious injuries with the same amount of effort. That's not really a good moral standard though, sounds like all the murderers in prison with Dahmer saying "Yeah, but I never tried to eat them."

I saw a sign once that said "Except for ending slavery, oppression, and genocide, war has never solved anything." It seems that despite what everyone's mothers and teachers told them, sometimes violence is the answer. We all have it in our toolbox, the question is about when we feel it is appropriate. Like any tool, using it has consequences, if we are rational we are only going to use it when the benefit is of more value than the consequences. Part of the implicit deal with the soldiers who ended slavery, oppression, and genocide, was that they would not be facing the normal consequences for their actions. Nobody would sign up for the military if we told them they would be charged with murder and assault after the fighting was over.

When the consequences are light enough, then yes, people do believe they will get away with it. Practically speaking, women have far more reason to believe they will get away with it. The legal consequences are much less likely, and there is even a high chance that it will be the man who she attacks that will face the legal consequences.

There are other consequences to resorting to violence as well. Men are very familiar with these, though they usually apply when one resorts to violence against someone bigger or stronger. We learn these lessons early on, in the playground, and in sports. (When I played hockey, sometimes I was the consequence for those who resorted to violence, because sometimes 2 minutes or 5 just wasn't enough.)

There was also a belief back then that it was wrong to hit girls, for any reason. This meant that the only girls who would learn of these consequences were the ones who got into fights with other girls. Now how many of those who think it's okay to hit men think it is also okay to hit women?

Yeah, I do believe that the reason people hit their partner is because they believe they will get away with it. In the case of women, they are unlikely to face the legal consequences, and do not believe that the men will hit back. In the case of men, they do not believe that their wife will call the police, and are not worried about being hit back.

Paraphrasing Robert E Howard (or was it Robert Jordan?), barbarians tend to have far better manners than civilized men, because they know they could find an axe embedded in their skull. (Now why does Chrome think that axe is a typo?)

UO is absolutely right about the posts here. I have never seen a man post about hitting his wife, regardless of how horrified he already was, without "not cool bro" responses being the kindest and most understanding things said. I have also seen a lot of posts over the years by women, often bragging about it, and it used to be 50/50, and depend on who got respond first, whether it would condemn the violence in a gentle manner, or be filled with a chorus of "You go girl!" Thankfully that last reaction appears to have been phased out.

aesir, nobody is arguing, they are sharing their thoughts and experiences.If you see a problem, please contact a moderator

"uncertaine"-Blind rage is blind.Nobody else in the house apart from WS,nobody else" happened to be standing near" for me to avoid.I don't think at the time I had the mental capacity to think "I'm female,not as strong as him,therefore it doesn't matter and I'll get away with it".Try asking any of the women whether they had much in the way of rational thought running through their heads when they hit their WS-I certainly didn't.He was the one who cheated,not me.NOT a gender issue.I just happen to be female,no idea how men's brains work!

One build up to the black rage is the knowledge that you have been emotionally abused-this is what a WS does to their BS during and after an affair,but there is nothing you can do about it.If someone stole or damaged your property you would have recourse to the law.With an affair there is no recourse-your world may have been blown apart,with the resulting anger,sadness, depression,low self esteem etc.This does not excuse physical violence in any way,but may go some way to explain it.Again,not a gender issue. I am ashamed I hit my husband,apologised to him,and have kept my promise to never allow it to happen again.My thinking now is a thousand times more rational than when I hit him,at times I believe I was sectionable.

However,I notice a belittling of emotional abuse several times reading the SI forums,but the scars are much deeper and longer-lasting than a slap on the head in anger.This is especially applies to a LTA which is planned and executed carefully over a period of years,with no care of the consequences to either the WS or the BS,and certainly not done on the spur of the moment during a period of extreme emotional distress.This applies to both genders.

I have also read here of men who,though not actually hitting their WW,feel it's ok to shout in their face-a very threatening behaviour in my book,understandable but not acceptable either.

We've all done things in our lives we're ashamed of,mine being using physical violence which I abhor and of which I am rightly ashamed.But I have to forgive myself,in the same way I have to forgive WH for his A in order to move on.

Too much gender issue here,We're all people.A few random thoughts from his better half....

[This message edited by overandone at 7:38 AM, August 23rd (Friday)]

A worrying aspect I've just remembered reading in another topic-several women (BS) turning their anger onto themselves,with self-harming-do men do this as well?

[This message edited by overandone at 7:46 AM, August 23rd (Friday)]

A worrying aspect I've just remembered reading in another topic-several women (BS) turning their anger onto themselves,with self-harming-do men do this as well?

Not to t/j, but this what I did to myself when I found out. I harmed myself because I figure there is something inherently wrong with me. On numerous occassions, I have cut, battered, bruised, slammed into and hurt myself. I figure I should hurt myself more than him since there must be something wrong with me, but that is not a rational thought at all. In that vein of thought, hurting myself IS a form of control over myself and my environment. It is a means of controlling me. It's fucked up, yes. I agree. And this situation makes me acutely aware that I have to learn newer coping mechanisms, and strengthen the ones I did have in place before which failed because I lost my faith in them.

/ t/j

OMG ArkLaMiss - I am so sorry!!!!! (((ArkLaMiss)))

I remember the first time my ex struck me. Every cell in my body turned into a fist. I knew if I did that I'd be sitting in the back of a squad car, right where I should be

I too remember the first time my ex hit me - remember it like it happened yesterday. The ONLY thing that kept me from fighting back was the fact that I didn't want to go to jail - turns out, I was also about 6 weeks pregnant at the time. So, I would've been locked up & pregnant.

One build up to the black rage is the knowledge that you have been emotionally abused-this is what a WS does to their BS during and after an affair,but there is nothing you can do about it

Do you honestly believe that's a BS thing only?

Look, I'm not judge and jury. That is NOT what this post is about and I've stated that. That's up to each individual to determine how they feel about their actions (those that engaged). It's about any WS particularly WH that believe they should accept and allow themselves to be abused.

There are several who have posted on this site. When women post as waywards about husbands hitting or in any way becoming physical with them threads go pages with BW's flocking to tell them to run, call the cops, get safe. Very good advice. I've seen WH post here of absolutely horrific shit and that part is just glossed over. Hops right to the what he needs to do to help her feel safe.

When the advice is given "Do whatever it takes" it's very dangerous advice. Allowing another to abuse you doesn't ever erase the past, fix the present, help the future. It's just two very messed up people destroying each other.

Shame is no excuse not to protect yourself. Courage is needed for fixing this process and it starts with making yourself safe, for yourself and others.

ETA: So, I would've been locked up & pregnant. Oh, MJ

[This message edited by uncertainone at 10:56 AM, August 23rd (Friday)]

"uncertaine"-Blind rage is blind.Nobody else in the house apart from WS,nobody else" happened to be standing near" for me to avoid.I don't think at the time I had the mental capacity to think "I'm female,not as strong as him,therefore it doesn't matter and I'll get away with it".Try asking any of the women whether they had much in the way of rational thought running through their heads when they hit their WS-I certainly didn't.He was the one who cheated,not me.NOT a gender issue.I just happen to be female,no idea how men's brains work!

One build up to the black rage is the knowledge that you have been emotionally abused-this is what a WS does to their BS during and after an affair,but there is nothing you can do about it.If someone stole or damaged your property you would have recourse to the law.With an affair there is no recourse-your world may have been blown apart,with the resulting anger,sadness, depression,low self esteem etc.This does not excuse physical violence in any way,but may go some way to explain it.Again,not a gender issue. I am ashamed I hit my husband,apologised to him,and have kept my promise to never allow it to happen again.

Sorry that you had gone through that and good to hear that some changes had been made. The point UO is trying to make is that BH's cannot use blind rage as a reason to hit their WW’s. A BH could have said exactly this and it would never fly whatsoever, UO stating exactly how it's dealt with on this very site. Is hitting anyone acceptable, there isn’t anyone on this site who would say it was but the issue seems to be that a BW hitting their WH doesn’t seem as unacceptable.