SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My brother I am sorry you are here , truly I am . But since you are ,you should know that your wife is lying , blame shifting and protecting another "man" ( piece of shit ) over you ! It hurts I know , my stbxw did exactly the same she gave no closure at all , no remorse at all , and that is a special kind of pain. Do not make my mistakes , be strong not weak , do the 180. Be firm stand your ground ! Do not get pushed around like I was in the beginning please. If she does not tell you then leave her ! Do you have kids? Either way you need to get up in the morning as I do and look yourself in the mirror , for me I could not and she didn't care anyway ! The emotional is worse than the physical from a marraige standpoint I think it is a betrayal of and with the heart. This is much harder than a one night stand ! So be careful as you proceed ! I wish you all the best , it sounds like you have a journey ahead. I hope not. Good luck.

This is posted so much. It caught my eye because I posted similiar when I was going through it.

It doesn't matter WHY, but I am curious as to what her reasoning is for not telling you.

At least, what reason is she giving you for not telling you?

PS-- I missed that you already responded to the 'why'

I totally overlooked it.

Seems to be standard answer in the JUST FOUND OUT.

Sorry you are going through this.

RG

that he has to okay her disclosing this to me

^^^What a load of shit.

I would tell her to reveal the name or pack her bags and get out. If she values the M more than the OM she will tell you.

If she reveals his name, find out if he is M and tell his wife but don't let your W know that you are going to do this. You don't want her giving a heads up to OM so he can formulate the "This guy is crazy" story.

Sorry you are here. This would be a deal breaker to me. She violated your trust, your marriage and your vows...now she is asking you to trust her because she owes it to him? Her head is in the wrong game and obviously feels no remorse as to what she has done and only guilt for being caught. If she is not willing to be transparent now, she never will be. It is your decision on how to pursue, but you need to decide if this is a deal breaker for you. If it is....stick with the consequence. If not, figure out how to deal with it. The 180 helps you to heal.

Her rationale is along these lines.....I shouldn't be focusing on the affair partner. My focus should be on the issues in our marriage that even allowed her to be in the place to need support from another man.

Whoa! Dude! No way! She's blaming YOU for her affair! SHE made the choice to do this, YOU didn't get a choice, did you? This was HER CHOICE of action. This had nothing to do with you - Don't let her shift the blame to your shoulders.

She also says that she told him that she wouldn't tell me his name and doesn't feel she can go back on that without getting consent from him.

Eeeengh! Wrong answer. The thing to do is to draw your line. What do you want and need? Do you need to know who it is? Of course you do! She doesn't tell, then go see a lawyer - tomorrow! If nothing else it might slap her enough to pull her head out of her ass and give you what you need to feel safe in the relationship again. If not, find out your options from the lawyer.

There's a good thread in the "I Can Relate" forum for betrayed Men. We can help.

Your wife is gaslighting and blameshifting. IMO, assume she is still involved with this man because she is defending HIM instead of YOU.

Read this tactical primer by SerJr:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=235051

Take care of yourself.

Tom she values the OM and her secrets more then her marriage.

She either tells you or you pack up

Her shit and put her out. Let her support you and the kids if needed.

Head strong or not she has her head up her ass and you need to pull it out!

Well if she wont tell you who he is find out yourself. Most WS think they are very smart and secretive. But the fact is they are sloppy and leave a paper trail a mile long. Start by analyzing the cell bill. Look at the detailed usage for repeated call to certain numbers. It will stick out like a sore thumb. Another great way is to install a keylogger on the PC. Trust me pal there are always ways of finding out things. Just invest some time and effort. We have a saying around here: TRUST BUT VERIFY. Chances are she is still in contact with this asshole. Good luck Bro.

Actually I am more angry at you than her.

If sh didnt told you his name even after one month means a lot. Its shows where her loyalty is, she is loyal to OM not you. She is protecting OM and she dont give a shit about your pain or hurt. WHY YOU ARE PUTTING UP WITH THIS? Why you didnt told her to fuck off and come home when she is ready to tell his name and call his wife/ GF and inform what happened at work.

Why you didnt asked her to quit the job and find some other job? You are afraid to move again, you are moving again not because of what you did, its because of what she did.

I dont believe her story that they talked behind the closed doors. Two adults who are in love dont talk behind the closed doors, they are there to do something; we call it sex. She is trickle truthing you and trying to minimise and protect the OM.

Many A thrives and flourish under the nose of BSs only because BSs are scared to face the truth and stand their ground firmly. Every days you allowing her to have contact with her OM even after your knowledge of A is enabling the A. Stop playing nice, its time for tough love.

What is important to you and her your marriage or job? If you want to save your marriage first get ready to lose it.

[This message edited by kannan at 3:09 AM, September 7th (Saturday)]

I agree with standing up to yourself and packing her shit up in bags. Nothing like stating a threat (with the absoloute intention of following through). My WH was quite like you wife, headstrong, thought he could get away with it etc etc.

I did two things on discovery day 2,

type questions on a word document with specific questions and told him he had half an hour to answer them all honestly or his guitar would be run over by a car.

He was 80% honest (about as much as you can expect from a liar)

2. I said he had half an hour to help me get his whore down to the park so I could confront her or all of his stuff would be packed in the car. I had already arranged for him to stay with a friend for a month.

BAM, all conditions fulfilled.

That is how I got confirmation on all my suspicions AND A NAME!

She DOES NOT get to tell you what she will not tell you SHE DOES NOT get to treat you like a chump.

Time to stand up and realise you won't take her shit anymore. Because you're worth it

Tom,

First off, sorry that you are here. This shit hurts more than anything that we will normally ever experience.

You are getting a lot of "get angry and take control" responses here for (2) main reasons---First, it is the correct thing to do, and second, nothing irks betrayed spouses and partners on this site like an unremorseful partner....which is EXACTLY what your wife currently is.

I understand that you may not be ready to put her stuff on the front lawn....I really do. But just because I understand it doesn't mean that it is correct to be passive. You are living your own personal nightmare, and if you were anything like me, you are almost paralyzed with fear of losing everything---your wife, kids, home, and all that is important to you.

But you are going to have to come to the realization that this path can't continue. The easiest question to ask yourself, right at this moment, and with total honesty, is if you can continue the rest of your life exactly like it is right now. I mean that---will you be able to live without knowing his name, knowing that she is choosing to protect him over you, and have no way of ensuring that she doesn't communicate with him ever again?

If the answer to the above is yes, then disregard the following. But if you can't stay like this, now is exactly the time to take steps in reclaiming your life.

You fear that she will leave if you take a hard line. As much as this may not compute with you right now, it is better that she leaves now than tomorrow, 1 year, or 10 years from here, because you will be that much further along in your own personal healing. Don't waste a moment's time with an unremorseful spouse. Make it painfully clear to her that every bit of resistance that you perceive as damaging to the marriage(or what is left of it) is moving you in the opposite direction of potential reconciliation. That you will NOT accept anything less than what is expected in a loving, committed marriage.

The sooner she gets your message loud and clear, the sooner that you will see if you have a partner who is committed to making things work, or who will not do the work on themselves to make them a safe partner for the future.

Remember, you can not control what she does, but you do control your future. Your old marriage is dead....or at least on life support. It has no chance of survival in the current conditions. But it can either be revived or rebuilt with TWO committed partners. Unfortunately, she is not of that material right now.

You have to get past your fears of the unknown. They hold way too many of us back at precisely the time when we should be as proactive as we could ever imagine. No matter what, you are going to look back after time, and second guess many of your decisions/actions. Don't let fear be one of those regrets.

When a spouse fears for their marriage or pushing their wayward spouse too far is when you have lost control of your own destiny.

Your wife has been emotionally cheating on you for months.

Everyone is right. It ends when you say it ends.

Put a stop to it today. Get access to her cell without her knowing it. If she is cheating at work put a pen var in the bottom of her bag or a var in her car.

Because your wife is not too be trusted as you should already see.

HM

I agree with a lot of things being said here. I plan on putting the 180 into effect in many ways. But the piece of advice that is crazy is to start using voice activated recording devices. That is a felony without consent from at least one party of the conversation. That is not a road that seems wise to head down.

As for checking phone bills, emails, etc. She has a iPhone thru her employer - so I have no access to her texting records. I do have physical access to her iPhone so I can see her texts and phone calls. I even know her password to the phone. I don't see any unusual things as of now. And I have access to her personal email account and there has never been anything on there either.

The only thing I don't have access to is her work based email account. But based on the type of work she does - I doubt she would be using that as a method of interacting with the OM. I actually do believe that all there interactions have been limited to face to face contact and there is no paper trail to follow.

I have talked more with her about needing to know his name and she has agreed that when we start see a MC soon, that we can discuss it with the therapist. So I have agreed to table it for now.

A lot of people on here are stating outright that she is definitely lying. And while my wife never told me some important things that were happening - they were lies of omission not bold faced lies when I started questioning her more. She revealed the EA with the OM willingly when I was still pretty much in the dark. There hasn't been any trickle truth - it all came out in one night on D day except for the name. And she swears that that don't work closely together and after she cut off contact she only sees him once or twice a week in the halls of the office.

I think she knows enough about me that if I find out she is still lying that we are done for good. I have told her that very clearly and I am not one that makes idle threats. But in reality - there is no way to actually know what happened without trusting her somewhat. So at some point - if I want to reconcile I have to take what she says at face value and believe it if there is no additional evidence to the contrary. I am not trying to put my head in the sand here - but I can't spend my life fighting windmills either. I plan on continuing to gather intel and doing the 180. That is what I can control right now.

Tom,

You can take as much, or as little advice here, and apply it to your situation. There is a saying around here to take what you need, and leave the rest.

One thing I should say is that while you are still feeling your way through the discovery of infidelity, you should not quickly discard the things that seem the strangest to you. As a matter of fact, you should think about them a little harder, because people aren't just suggesting things that are "out of bounds" to you for shock value---but because these are approaches that have had positive(and negative) effects in specific situations.

Another thing that you will start to see clearer is her current manipulation:

I have talked more with her about needing to know his name and she has agreed that when we start see a MC soon, that we can discuss it with the therapist. So I have agreed to table it for now.

See this for what it is--control. She is not seeking the therapist's advice if it is or is not the right thing to do, she is withholding this information because she does not want to reveal her partner. She is protecting him over your needs, period. This is why I am stating that she is unremorseful---because with remorse comes empathy---and she sure as hell isn't feeling your pain. Lies of omission are still lies, and even if she isn't outright lying to you, she is not looking out for your needs.

You can't reconcile with that.

You state that eventually you will have to start to trust her. That is true. But you do not need to trust her at face value without hard evidence. Just because you don't currently trust her doesn't mean that you believe that she is lying...it just means that she is not to be trusted by her current actions.

Words are just that---words. That doesn't do squat to build trust. It is the consistent, continuing actions that are the building blocks to regaining trust. And the pillars to those actions are honesty, transparency, and remorse. You just don't have these at this point. Ask yourself--what is she DOING on her own to rebuild your trust? What is she doing to show that she is putting your needs in front of hers?

There are no degrees of lying. Lies of omission are still lies. And in certain circumstances omissions can be more damaging than what you call a bold face lie. Its sort of like The Bill Clinton nonsense. Where he claimed that he did not have a sexual relationship with his intern. Yet he would admit that he had engaged in oral sex with her. Like that was bad but not as bad as having intercourse. And therein lies the gray area. Infidelity is black and white. Lies are lies no matter how they are packaged. Don't allow those gray areas into the picture. It will dilute what has happened and only delay the inevitable.

From my experience and knowledge there are two basic requirements for Reconciling after infidelity

1. A truly reomrseful wife who is ready to do anything to heal the BS.

2.consequences for infidelity. There should be consequences, else why should they change when hey can have their cake and eat it too.

Now, I think one more thing is needed; BS who is not ready to swallow any Bull shit from WS and who is not scared of loosing the WS.

Sadly, in your case you dont have any of these with you for true R.

[This message edited by kannan at 7:50 AM, September 9th (Monday)]

Tom,

You've already had a lot of great advice. I'll just throw my experience in as well. I got the "we don't need to ruin their marriage", "they have nothing to do with us", all that shit. I told her that either she give me his contact info, or we are done. She decided not to. I handed her a piece of paper that I had been working on with what I was going to go for in our divorce. No fucking way was I going to not only be cheated on, but have my wife place her affair partner above me in our marriage. She'd already done that long enough. If she wants to protect him over you, time to walk.

She also says that she told him that she wouldn't tell me his name and doesn't feel she can go back on that without getting consent from him.

Huh really? Seems she went back on her wedding vows without bothering to get consent from you.

What makes him so special that he gets a concrete promise but you did not?

You feel she did omission and did not trickle-truth you? In your original post you stated how you could feel her drifting away but she would not tell you what was wrong. You knew something was off and kept trying harder in the M and she was having her EA.

I know how hard it is in these early stages. I have been there. You want so badly to believe them and to fix it...but you can't do it alone. She has to be able to meet your requirements for a R to work and she is clearly stating she will not.

So sorry.

I agree with a lot of things being said here. I plan on putting the 180 into effect in many ways. But the piece of advice that is crazy is to start using voice activated recording devices. That is a felony without consent from at least one party of the conversation. That is not a road that seems wise to head down.

I don't think anyone has ever successfully pushed those felony charges against a spouse because it isn't employed with criminal or malicious intent, not when it's on your own property to determine whether or not the environment you are in is a safe one.

Even in the event that it would be true, using a VAR in your own home or a marital vehicle for personal purposes does not mean it is going to be used as court admitted evidence.

In any case, you have no reason to trust her right now. I hope she is telling you the truth but the reality is that she has deceived you already and has placed her loyalty to this man above her loyalty to you. Many WS use secret email accounts - she could easily access gmail or yahoo from another computer you do not have access to that never touches her work email, and many WS also use secret cell phones. The vast majority of WS minimize their involvement with the OP.

It is entirely possible that your wife is telling you the whole truth as it stands and this one thing is in the way, but the unfortunate reality is that if there is a story like that out of all those here on SI, I do not remember it. They're always deeper, tips of the iceberg.

Yes, if you are going to R then you need to trust her at some point - but that trust comes when she earns it.

I linked you to the tactical primer earlier - this is also an excellent post to read, called Before You Say Reconcile:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=406548

Good luck.