SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

statistic,

I am so sorry you are in a circumstance that you do not deserve. This will sound crass, but your H only cares about himself. His interest in you and your child only extends as far as his precious reputation. I do not suggest this lightly, but he deserves a far more extreme outcome than what I can post here... with the support of your friends, family, and a good attorney, you should take him for everything he has and not look back. Cut him off at the knees (or slightly higher). Do it for yourself and your child. If, at a later date, he proves to be a better man than he has demonstrated so far, you can consider a new relationship with him on your own terms. Unfortunately, my guess is that you have not yet seen the worst side of him.

Your suggestions are not crass at all. I feel the same way during my angrier moments. The problem I have is that I am not angry. I've never been an angry person. I've seen angry propel people forward and I wish I could hold onto some.

Instead, I am sad and anxious. I am even preoccupied with his well being! After all he has done, I do not want to hurt him because that is not who I am. I feel bad for him and some of the things that have happened since the fallout... Losing job, friends, his parents deciding not to visit.

He is currently very remorseful and doing all the right things. I honestly don't want to hurt him by divorcing him even though I do not see myself forgiving him. He will be alone. This is crazy, I realize that, but this is who I am as a person and probably why he strayed in the first place. He knows his well being is paramount and I will do anything to care for him, just as I've done with friends and family whom I hold dear.

Also, how many details did you need to gather about the affair? I want to know as much as possible because I'm tired of others knowing more about the state of my marriage than I. Plus, I feel like certain details make the offense even worse and I want him to hold himself accountable and not hide anything from me anymore in order to cover his own behind. Which details where important to you? When did you realize you know enough?

Don't wait for him to go willingly to MC. Start IC for yourself. You need someone in your corner who is there for YOU. I saw an IC for about 2 years after DD and it was the best thing I ever did for myself.

Stat -

I see you trying to make this all alright, and overlooking your own needs, and self-respect to get there. This is unhealthy.

YOU said:

"He is currently very remorseful and doing all the right things. I honestly don't want to hurt him by divorcing him even though I do not see myself forgiving him. He will be alone. This is crazy, I realize that, but this is who I am as a person and probably why he strayed in the first place. He knows his well being is paramount and I will do anything to care for him, just as I've done with friends and family whom I hold dear. "

Seriously? You are taking the blame for his cheating? You say because you loved him too much he chose to cheat? Honey YOU had ZERO to do with that choice. That is all about him and his brokenness. The sooner you hand that responsiblity over to him the sooner he will start to own it. There is something fundamentally broken in him. YOU CAN NOT FIX IT. He has to do that.

Real remorse? You are seeing that? Can you talk about his A without fear of him getting angry? Can you demand certain things of him, and get it? Like MC, has he agreed to that? Has he done anything about setting that up, or even IC for himself? True remorse is much different than I'm sorry about this mess.

I know it's a very difficult time, and my post DDay was similar to yours, in the fact that H lost his job (not A related) and was broken and depressed, and I did worry about him doing something stupid to himself. However I still didn't get into real R until I finally had enough of disrespect, and demanded he move out, and handed him my ring.

I'm a giver, I was horribly codependent, and I see that in you as well, you want to give, you want to make it all better, but you can't. This is on him, and that may be why you don't feel anger, and why you feel anxious, because on some deep level you know that you cannot make this better. That is on him.

Have you set your ground rules for R? Has he started any of the work for R? If not, then you need to make some demands. It's time to start to get the love and respect you deserve.

Seriously? You are taking the blame for his cheating? You say because you loved him too much he chose to cheat?

I guess I get the sense from family and friends and pretty much everything I read that people stray when the marriage is in trouble and since I am one-half of the marriage, it is partially my fault for not making it a place he wanted to stay. I a sure I did not compliment him more, improve our communication, etc. I am sure these are all things he received from the OW. It is a two way street as he didn't do anything to address these issues either...not that I knew we had issues! All in all, I just dont want to think about him in this way. This is not the man I know. He is not the man I married.

Real remorse? You are seeing that? Can you talk about his A without fear of him getting angry? Can you demand certain things of him, and get it? Like MC, has he agreed to that? Has he done anything about setting that up, or even IC for himself?

He apologizes and agreed to MC. I made the appt and we attend tomorrow. I wanted him to quit his job because there is a good chance the OW will be around, but he won't hear about it and says he will quit once he finds something else first. No, I cannot ask him questions without fear of him getting angry. He says that the answers to my questions will only hurt me more.

I'm a giver, I was horribly codependent, and I see that in you as well, you want to give, you want to make it all better, but you can't.

Yes, I've learned this about myself as well since the affair came to light. I have no idea how to stand on my own. You are absolutely right when you said am anxious, not angry because I cannot fix this.

Have you set your ground rules for R? Has he started any of the work for R?

I moved out of our home. The baby and I are living with my parents. The only demands I have placed include no contact with the OW and MC. I also asked him to talk to my family and his own to explain what is going on. He did speak to both sets of parents and siblings. I am hoping the counselor will help him see that he needs to answer my questions honestly. I am actually nervous that he will walk out.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, and dig a little deeper.

I think he is doing the minimum that he can to keep the M going. True remorse is not met with anger from the WS. They are often overwhlemed with what they have done, but they are truly sorry for their actions, and do not meet questions with anger, rather understanding, honesty and truthful answers.

Actions are what show someone gets it. He doesn't get it yet, and you won't be able to make him get it, all you can do is protect yourself and your baby, and demand the respect you deserve, he will either man up, and start the real work of R, or he won't, and that is truly a gift, because life is short, and shouldn't be wasted on someone who treats you as a choice, or second place.

You should be put on a pedestal and treated like the queen you are, and until you demand it, you will not get it, you will get this vague, just enough to keep you hanging on, sick in the gut feeling, work of false R.

It it probably time for you to really seriously put together your full demands for R. And if NC is an absolute (and it should be) he needs to be actively seeking employment elsewhere, and offering you proof daily of this.

((((and strength))))

We had our first marriage counseling session and it went well. The counselor is experienced and really holds my WS feet to the flames. I'm in MC because I am in limbo about S,R, or D. Intellectually, I think to myself that he betrayed me, broke our vows, so infidelity equals divorce. The therapists made a point to say that an affair is a symptom of a troubled marriage. I resent that idea a little because I was in the same marriage and did not think about straying. Perhaps I'm not ready to take responsibility for what I did or did not do to improve our marriage.

I posts several times about his horrendous behavior after I found out. He is now doing everything I ask... Taking initiative and going to IC, answering my questions, etc. He says he is sorry and afraid of a future without me and his daughter. He is not from the US so he will be truly alone.

I just can't get these images out of my head. I get sick at the idea that he obtained so much pleasure engaging in acts that destroyed our marriage and my heart. It cuts really deep to know that he made someone else feel good when it should have been me. The MC believes I am only harming myself with these thoughts. I am having trouble convincing myself that he deserves for me to put in the work it would take to R the right way. I'm bitter, angry, and tired. I wish I knew this would not happen again.

((statistic)))

I don't know that I like what the MC is saying. It is well known (and confirmed in Not Just Friends) that many men in happy marriages stray. For the MC to say that right off the bat disturbs me. My H will be the first to say that he was happily married and I was an excellent wife, and the A was a symptom of a troubled MAN. Plus it is often the case that the one who is giving LESS in the marriage is the one who strays. Don't let this MC place blame where it doesn't belong. The A is not your fault! There is always a different option if someone is having problems in their marriage.

And to also say that you are harming yourself by having these thoughts; well how can you not at this stage?! That is completely normal and something we all have suffered through. Would that we could just follow our MC's advice and banish the mind movies! Thanks a lot!

I would be careful with this MC.

eta; not to say that we can't all look at what we contribute to our marriages; just that marital problems can not be used to justify an affair. And again, an A is not always a result of an unhappy or troubled marriage; that is oversimplification.

[This message edited by catlover50 at 5:41 PM, October 17th (Thursday)]

Seet Jesus this pisses me off

" The therapists made a point to say that an affair is a symptom of a troubled marriage. I resent that idea a little because I was in the same marriage and did not think about straying. Perhaps I'm not ready to take responsibility for what I did or did not do to improve our marriage. "

YOUR MARRIAGE GOOD OR BAD HAS ZERO TO DO WITH HIS DECISION TO CHEAT, LIE, AND CONTINUALLY BREAK VOWS, DISRESPECT,AND BE A GENERAL SLIME BALL.

Please for the love of all that's holy don't fall for that.

THIS is about him.

I'm glad to hear he is in IC, and doing some of the work. Now if he can start treating you right, and not be resentful, or get angy, and support you emotionally as you move forward you may very well be able to R.

R or D shouldn't be based on he cheated I need to D. It should be based on his reaction to finding out about his cheating, and if he truly owns what he did as being all him. Until he does that, you won't R. At least not happily and successfully.

((((and strength))))

Thanks tushnurse and cat. It feels like pouring salt on a wound when I begin to think about what I could of done to contribute to his straying. I'm worried that this type of MC will take the emphasis away from working on him.. The one who cheated. My WH did say to the therapist that this is in no way my wife's fault no matter how bad the marriage.

You said something that resonated with me. Right now, I am very much at the place where infidelity = divorce, end of story. While he is showing signs of true remorse and doing all that I ask right now, I'm not sure that his past actions make him deserving of an R and all the work and sacrifice I have to also contribute to make this marriage work.

My M sucks like a giant gaping chest wound at times.

But cheating has never been an option.

So what if nobody found out about it?

I would know and even though I put up with a lot of abuse from my S over the years, I still have enough self respect not to go down that road.

Maybe you need a new counselour.

I spoke too soon. Numbness is gone. I'm angry that he made time for her. I can't help but draw parallels. He had time last summer to meet with her during the muddle of the work day. But this year, he couldn't miss work to go to my obstetrician appts or my daughters pediatrician appts. He is extremely tight about money, but didn't mind spending money on hotel rooms.

Now he is in IC and MC and wants to to whatever it takes, I think, to make things work. How on earth can I even consider this after all he has done? A full year of gas lighting, horrendous arguments all while I'm expecting our first child bc I kept bringing up the issue bc I knew something was wrong. He said he couldn't tell me bc he was afraid the strain of the truth would cause me to lose the baby or I would leave him. I had two miscarriages beforehand. If he can do this to me and I'm too paralyzed to leave, he can walk all over me like th doormat I've become.

Stop that way of thinking right now. You were a doormat. You get to make the rules of R and you get to decide if that works or not. If it doesn't it's ok too.

You are in no way obligated to continue this path. You know when things really changed for us ? When I decided enough. I was no longer going to be the doormat. I deserved more and I was going to demand it and if H couldn't give it then he needed to go. That was what made all the difference. That was when he realized I was strong and capable and preferred to be alone rather than abused and that was when his fog cleared and real R began.

(((( and strength ))))

Thanks Tushnurse. I'm glad to hear it worked so well for you and that you were so strong. I've tried to be strong but waver in my attempts. He is doing some of the things I ask, but only after lots of "coaching" and begging and pleading on my part. I hate the feeling that I'm working harder at this than he is and I'm holding him by the hand when he should be doing it for me. For some reason, I feel that "if he only knew to do A, B, and C, he would do it and things would be better" but that's proving to be overly optimistic. Now he is complaining that I'm not giving him any "chances" to solve things or spend time together bc I moved out. Yes I moved out. But he also decided to take on more clients and work longer hours! He says it's because he doesn't want to be home alone and we have so many bills to pay. I'm tired of coaching and want to move on. It's terrifying.

I think it may be too early for MC at this point but for each couple it is a personal choice..

I wouldn't want to work on changing my half of why our marriage had issues if I was still feeling injured and raw from finding out my WH had the A..This approach feels especially wrong if WS is un remorseful..

There were several times in MC when the MC and WH made me so angry! I felt like they were ganging up on me ..This MC was stupid stupid STUPID! He was dumb enough to say that WH's semen would back flow and clog up his male plumbing and cause cancer if he didn't get enough sex.. When the MC said that to me I almost flipped him and WH the bird..I think I actually did walk out... That counselor got fired...

One thing to work out in your head is if you think your marriage has redeeming qualities that make it worth working on ..How much were you getting out of the marriage prior to A..Was life good or difficult with your WS...

[This message edited by doggiediva at 6:27 PM, October 22nd (Tuesday)]

Okay, as several others have eluded to, I'm going to try to paint it more black & white:

"...people stray when the marriage is in trouble and since I am one-half of the marriage, it is partially my fault for not making it a place he wanted to stay..."

This notion is 100%, complete, absolute, unequivocal BULLSHIT, rubbish, nonsense, refuse, bollocks, etc. etc. etc.

Most cheaters/waywards are broken people... period. You could fill a multi-ton dump truck with a million people's utmost love, support and intimacy and you could NEVER provide enough as they are a fucking bottomless pit.

Your WS sounds completely broken from this perspective. His head is so far up his own ass that he couldn't hear an air horn blowing at his buttocks. His neediness is a like chucking endless amounts of blood, sweat and tears into a blackhole.

Please do not buy into this nonsense and PLEASE find yourself a new MC/IC!!!

Did you find yourselves having to "coach" your WH/WW through the process? I'm not even referring to the R process but the "surviving after the revelation" stage. Having to tell him what I need and reiterate "why" I need answers to my questions is getting old. He still gets angry with my need to know more than the major points of the affair. He still gets angry with me bc the BH knows. He keeps asking me how my questions are going to help me move forward in anyway. He doesn't want to answer and it's like pulling teeth. I'm tired of coaching because I'm just tired, period, and wish I could stop doing the heavy lifting. Why doesn't he get it? Take initiative? Why does he have to queetion me every step of the way? I've been reading much of the posts and healing library. SI is truly the only thing that is helping me. I actually returned to work this week.

When do the lies stop? I was stupid enough to let my WH stop by to hang out with the baby and I tonight. I looked at his phone and saw that the other woman contacted my WH using another phone. She contacted him to tell him that I told her husband about the affair and that he needed to "stand up for himself and deny everything because they were never together" except they were. She is still lying to all, even herself. My husband never told me she contacted him even though he promised to tell me about any communication. No we is angry that I looked at his phone and said he is sure he can find suspicious stuff if her looked at my phone or computer long enough. He said I no longer have the right to look at his phone because I will only go "berserk." This is me going berserk... Shaking, crying, and writing on SI. Please help. I feel so alone & so stupid.

When a mama bird is trying to distract a predator from the nest, she usually does one of two things. She fakes a hurt wing so she looks vulnerable. Or she will all out attack the source of danger.

Sometimes a WS will act hurt that the BS doesn't trust them. Usually they will do the same thing your WH did- go on the attack. They blame the BS for snooping. They make us feel like crap for verifying that the person we are risking our heart for is telling the truth after so many lies.

That's what he's doing. I know it's hard but you need to let him know that unless he's transparent and allows you access to all accounts and phones he needs to just stay away.

Read in the healing library, BS FAQs #11. Start implementing the 180 to regain yourself and to get strength. Keep all communication to email or text so you have a record and can consider an answer before you respond. Show him what he's choosing by maintaining this attitude.

I'm so sorry he's continuing to cause you pain.