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Gonna be a short post- running on about two hours sleep and off to Monday at work.

Update- yesterday- two lengthy conversations that were soooo cathartic. I was tiptoeing thru the tulips, feeling happy and like we made such progress. Even posted "today was a good day." Aargh...

I finally got details about the EA and more details about the physical side. I did feel good- not fixed, but good for the day.

Last night, during an intimate time, he (TMI) had difficulty "staying with me" if you know what I mean. He blamed on the cat in the room and a squeaky bed. Trust me- these were NEVER a problem before.

I was okay until I tried to go to sleep. And then it hit me. He lied to me about the reason. We had spent all day talking about his connection to the OW and their physical affair. Of course it bothered him and was on his mind. Which is fine... But he LIED about it. And then, BOOM! All of the anger I had kept at bay for two months in light of "making it work" and "trying to be there for the R" exploded. It was physically painful. An actual explosion in my chest and heart.

I am exhausted so I won't write much more, but essentially we were up until 330- me yelling at times, verbal vomit of venting and "did you NEVER think of how I was feeling during those times when you were oh so lost?" And a million other things. We did fall asleep in each others arms after he finally stopped being defensive and apologized and started being honest. He held me as I sobbed as I haven't sobbed since I was a child. So- I am exhausted but we are still a team for now.

But man oh man- I did NOT expect that to happen- and certainly not on a Sunday night with only 4 hours till work.

This sucks. I know it is worth it- but damn this edfing roller coaster! Last night was a doozy. Off to make the strongest coffee ever.

Lesson learned? Honesty and talking is so vital - but just be prepared for the emotional fall out any new info brings.

Be well my friends :)

(((Wondertwin)))

We had quite a few of those nights. Many of them brought major turning points. Communication is so important.

Take it easy on yourself today. Remember that feelings will be even more volitile because of exhaustion. Drink plenty of water and try to eat right. And get some sleep when you can.

[This message edited by Chicho at 6:18 AM, September 30th (Monday)]

(((Wondertwin)))

We also had quite a few of those nights, & still do.

My WH is taking a very very long time to "get it." One step forward, 2 steps back. So many times I have felt like giving up on R, felt like we weren't getting anywhere---during those times I just told myself, try until we have an empty nest (4 yrs from now)---at least let the kids finish growing up in a 2 parent home.

I hope WH gets it, in both of our cases.

[This message edited by mchercheur at 5:56 AM, September 30th (Monday)]

My counsel is: give your H a break on this. My bet is that this is a sensitive area for all men - none of us wants to contemplate what this could mean, and I think grasping at straws for a reason is a reasonably normal response.

Besides, maybe the cat and squeaky bed always have been a real problem, and last night was just over the edge.

More seriously, for you the conversations solved some problems and were steps in the right direction. For your H, they were probably draining and scary. He's showing you the real him, and he's probably afraid you won't like him enough to stay.

If this persists, it's a problem to work on. If it's just this once, well, you're both getting older, and you're under a lot of stress. That's not easy on a guy....

[This message edited by sisoon at 7:43 AM, September 30th (Monday)]

(((WT)))

These can be very healthy discussions, and result in creating better bonds, and opening roads of communication.

I would strongly recommend trying to back burner any further discussion until you and he have both had some real sleep. Sleep deprivation made me an emotional wreck, and when I would try to discuss things I would end up just spiralling, so it wasn't helpful. It took me a few times to realize if I waws feeling a certain way with little sleep to keep my mouth shut get some rest and then reevaluate how you feel after.

This is actually a breakthrough for both of you. It may not exactly seem like it now, but that Dynamite is blowing up the bits of broken pieces that were from before, and clearing the way to rebuild a stronger, better M.

(((and strength))))

I know exactly what you mean and have had many evenings like this. One of our points of conflict is that when we have these draining conversations, I want to be close to WH -- to have sex. But oddly enough, given that we've been talking about what a jerk he's been and the fallout from his terrible behavior, he doesn't feel like sex! Go figure!

It kind of pisses me off in that I can either choose to have sex OR I can choose to have a serious conversation. Intellectually, I realize that talking about the A and the fallout isn't exactly sexy -making for WH, but I tend to want it anyway and end up feeling miffed. I try to let this go -- I do recognize that these conversations are really hard for WH and an essential part of healing.

Hope that helps.

PS -- Oh, yeah -- get a prescription for Ambien. It was critical for getting me through those first few months. I would have been a zombie otherwise. The kind that doesn't eat other people's brains, just her own. And, just maybe, AP's...

[This message edited by Blobette at 7:59 AM, September 30th (Monday)]

I know exactly what you mean and have had many evenings like this. One of our points of conflict is that when we have these draining conversations, I want to be close to WH -- to have sex. But oddly enough, given that we've been talking about what a jerk he's been and the fallout from his terrible behavior, he doesn't feel like sex! Go figure!

It kind of pisses me off in that I can either choose to have sex OR I can choose to have a serious conversation. Intellectually, I realize that talking about the A and the fallout isn't exactly sexy -making for WH, but I tend to want it anyway and end up feeling miffed. I try to let this go -- I do recognize that these conversations are really hard for WH and an essential part of healing.

This, exactly. I learned that having discussions about his affair made it very difficult for him to have sex. Because he was feeling pain over what he'd done to me, and to us. He was feeling shame and disgust over his choices, actions and behavior.

I wanted to reconnect after those discussions, but he was feeling so many emotions it was difficult for him to switch gears into intimacy, especially because we were striving to make sex...INTIMATE and emotional again, not just SEX anymore.

I had to realize that for him, facing up to his actions is hard. Of course it is. And so, yeah, sex is hard after that.

I will have A discussions either earlier on in the day, or just shelve sex for the evening.

Wow, WT, you went two months without raging like that? I think I spent the first two months doing nothing BUT raging.

But seriously, it sounds like a breakthrough for you both. The fact that you ended by connecting with each other is really heartening.

Sucks that it was on a Sunday night, though. I second everyone else comments to take it easy on yourself and be good to your body til you get some real rest.

If only these kinds of explosions could be contained and scheduled...

I think you are not allowing yourself to feel in the moment. Believe me I did that thinking it would be better but then it created many explosions and many with rage and often physical.

So you want to be able to discuss things before it gets escalated.

I am a Mediterranean so my temper is naturally up. In my country you could be driving down the main drag and suddenly traffic stops.. You see a taxi driver get out and another driver start yelling and banging of the cars. So my H isn't surprised if I come after him for cheating. He is A different country so they are even worse fist fights over traffic.

Sorry I digress .. I think it's better to communicate when you feel bad. My H doesn't like being put on the spot so he would often get defensive which would anger me more.

You still are very close to your DDay and things will happen. My H often can feel when I think he is comparing me during sex. I guess I behave differently or feel like I just want it to be over. Then he loses interest. Sometimes even when I am into it he loses it. Depending on my mood I will try to help him along and he gets back into the game. My H is very sensitive in that many things affect him plus he has health issues which contributes. Try to be patient when that happens as It can become a cycle of performance issues both mental and physical. of I can't because I won't be able so I better not try.

We have many late nights and I am 19 months out from DDay. So don't feel bad because it's bound to happen. Personally I hate nighttime. That's when my brain analysizes the entire day and goes into overtime.

I only barely sleep now. 4-5 if I am lucky.. 😟

Wow...thanks all. So true, so much of it.

Today, he reached out to me and we had a very meaningful conversation where he explained that I have this pattern of being happy and tra la la, we make love (amazing lately), cuddle for about 10 minutes, and then I spiral downward.

He admitted that he is getting a little afraid to have sex, because he doesn't want to watch me drop down so low. I never realized it, but he is right. We are in this pattern where I am almost manic about the lovemaking, so tender with the cuddles, then reality sets in and I grill him for a few hours, then I want love again because he was just so open and honest and sharing.

YIPES! We both agree that the "minefield" type discussions (watch your step...BOOM Im Pissed again!) aren't helping either of us. We have reaffirmed our committment to working together on this. and have both agree that there will be more times to come that are ugly, painful, messy, and just plain sh!t, but we both agree that this is what is needed to move through this.

Please someone tell me this does not go one forever. I am so tired, and just want to feel normal again...a new normal is fine, but this extreme up and down is wearing on me.

It won't go on forever..as long as neither of you rugsweep and you continue to talk about it.

What is he doing to work on himself?

Oh..and you are not "manic." Being betrayed is traumatizing. He has put you on an emotional roller coaster. So..he needs to NOT complain about it..sit down next to you,and strap himself in. As long as he rides the coaster with you,and is truly remorseful,there is NO TT,no lies,no broken contact,he answers all of your questions and is willing to talk openly about what he did...your ride won't last as long as..well..mine. Mine refuses to do what he needed..for nearly 3 years. In the last few months,once he "got it," I can honestly say I have come leaps and bounds in my healing.

ETA: It sounds like sex is a trigger for you. It was for me too. I found that leaving a light on..and lots of eye contact helped.

[This message edited by confused615 at 12:12 PM, September 30th (Monday)]

Yes! Eye contact is something we havent had in years, and it has been great how connected I feel during now.

And I want to say...he is doing everything that I ask, above and beyond, and really being remorseful. I really could not ask for a more open and willing wayward. It makes it easier, I am sure.

I guess like walking barefoot over broke glass is easier than walking barefoot over hot lava. I digress.

Yes, he is being, doing, saying what I need him to with NO complaining at all. I can tell he is thoughtful about what he says and tries to be as clear and honest as he can.

Baby steps....over broken glass, I guess.

It sounds like he is doing everything you need...that's great.

Maybe you could encourage him to post on SI? I think it might help him to understand this is a process...and you will have extreme ups and extreme downs..and the other waywards will give him advice on how to handle all of this.

I don't think I've ever recommend this to any other newly betrayed spouse.Usually,I advise to NOT bring a WS to SI..until you know they are TRULY remorseful. In the beginning,what often appears to be remorse...sin't.

But...I have a good feeling about you and your WH...and I really think he could benefit from being here...and it would help you too,of course.

I had an explosion Saturday morning too. Hugs to you. Make it a good day today. Focus on other things, be good to yourself and go to bed early tonight. Sex can wait.

Confused- thank you so much for your kind words. I have told him about the site, but he hasn't seen it. For right now it's my safe place- but as we move forward I think it might help him to read about others so that he doesn't feel so lost.

Thank you:)

There have been a couple of occassions when H 'lost it' in the middle of things. But just as I am able to stop things if I am having mind issues, he is too. For my remorseful spouse, he has told me that sometimes he is just overwhelmed by the guilt/shame at times. It hits him like a wave as some of the triggers hit me and just shuts him down down there. We did not have a long discussion following it, but just a few simple words about what was bothering him, some affection, and then fell asleep in each others arms.I try to remember that it is a long process we BOTH have to go through in order to heal.

It is important to keep the lines of communication open. Above all, honesty and safe environment are key.

Wondertwin, as hard as that was, it seems to be positive. Communication that ends with both of you getting something you want/need out of the conversation is a step forward. Hugs to you as you negotiate this terrain.

I hope this won't be TMI . . . My husband and I sometimes just wrap ourselves around each other as closely as possible. Unclothed. Skin to skin. With nothing else but that tactile, physical sensation, that comfort, that bonding. We're vulnerable, we're loving, we're intimate, but we don't have to perform. Sometimes, we're on our sides, either spooning or facing each other. Sometimes, I just lie on top of him with my head under his chin and my arms wrapped under his. It's beautiful. And it's powerfully healing.

Wondertwin, you and I are so in the same place at the same time lately!

H has been having some difficulty "staying with me"

lately and I think it's all about the guilt. We've had some really difficult conversations lately and he has repeatedly had to face my pain head-on.

Yesterday. my LinkedIn notifications showed that his AP had viewed my profile for the second time in recent weeks. When I showed him this, he said it was creepy, but as we continued to talk I think he was startled by how many unexpected places in our world the AP has touched. We talked openly about the challenges and left things in a good place.

8 hours later, I think the reality of the conversation was still bothering him. The guilt, shame, and remorse all came to bed with us last night.

As grateful as I am for all his efforts to fix the mess he caused, I think I'd like the HB to last a while longer