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I am getting so sick of reading/hearing about affair proofing marriage. I am sick of hearing about couple's MC blaming the M and/or the BS for contributing to the A. I read Love Laguages years ago and it did not help a thing. Stay fit, keep the sex interesting, keep the conversation lively, make time for dates, send the kids off, keep a clean house, adore them, worship them, tell them they have the biggest dick you have ever seen, keep tap dancing as fast as you can and he will not stray.

Who really believes this? Isn't affair proofing about self health and internal integrity? Why is it the BS fault, ever, that the WS does not have the character to know when to say no? It took two to tango the horizontal dance. Why does society and some therapists insist on making the BS part of the unholy trio?

Thoughts?

Agree 100%. Except I feel that the Love Languages are very helpful.

Who really believes this? Isn't affair proofing about self health and internal integrity? Why is it the BS fault, ever, that the WS does not have the character to know when to say no? It took two to tango the horizontal dance. Why does society and some therapists insist on making the BS part of the unholy trio?

IMO it's because affairs are not looked at as a relationship problem but a relationship solution by some people. Otherwise the entire idea that anything other than the personal choices and failures of the WS brought it to the point of an affair would be in the same category as "He drove me to drink."

I think that the term "Affair proof" can definitely be a little insulting - it's like saying "Flu-Proof" your life.

We can wash our hands a million times, drink OJ, jog 5 miles a day, but unless you spend your whole life in a box in your closet avoiding human contact, there's a chance the virus might find it's way to you.

Sometimes it's out of our hands, and to indicate that we have complete control over it is not really fair.

I like the message about bolstering our relationships/marriages, but I definitely agree that insinuation that there's a way to entirely avoid what is ultimately the cognitive and emotional failing of another is just ignorant.

As for "Love Languages" (as well as every other book on the subject) I think there is value in it but we have to interpret some things as NA to us considering how very different every person/relationship truly is.

[This message edited by Jrazz at 11:40 AM, October 2nd (Wednesday)]

Totally agree. Even if you aren't doing all that stuff, there is no excuse for an affair. Fix it or leave it.

On a side note- I am also sick of kids being used as an excuse. Our MC, who I like for the most part, really pisses me off when she talks about how most affairs start when couples have young kids (WH'e first affair was when our kids were 3 and 5) She says the kids are filling the needs of the wife and the husband feels neglected. Really ... Did these kids spawn spontaneously from the woman or was there a man involved in making them. You make a commitment to family when you have kids. If you feel jealous of your kids there is something wrong. I have a hard time with the concept that your need for attention supercedes the needs of the family. The books and MC tell me differently though. Kids destroy marriages.

Our MC, who I like for the most part, really pisses me off when she talks about how most affairs start when couples have young kids (WH'e first affair was when our kids were 3 and 5) She says the kids are filling the needs of the wife and the husband feels neglected.

Fuck, I knew I read that memo wrong!

I LOVE LOVE LOVE that you posted this.

But, I'll stop there in that I don't think I can stop myself before irritating everyone on SI.

Thank you!

*following thread*

Yes, Roses, I forgot the kids. How many WS blame everything from the "unwilling pregnant wife" to "she was only interested in taking care of the kids". I mean, really? Who needs you more? A helpless 3 month old or a 30 year old? I admit I walked around like a zombie for 3 months after a colicky screaming baby cried for hours. I had spit up on my clothes, leaky breasts from all of the crying, dirty hair and no dinner made. But, it only lasts a second compared to a lifetime.

Sorry, but feeling rants today after seeing so many newbies having blame shifted to them by the WS and their MC. Thank God the IC/MC put the A squarely on my H. Could we both have done a better job? Maybe, but referring to the Love Languages, it did not save us from the A sting. The A was about my H and his internal issues.

You can only be responsible for yourself, not another person or their actions

And then there is the AP, so unless you have some magical powers, you cant control what someone else does

We had a good relationship and WH still cheated, so I really dont think you can affair proof your marriage, but you can affair proof your own behaviour

Doing all the "right" things to be perfect doesnt guarantee anything, only stress trying to be perfect

TruthorGoodbye, please DON'T stop.

Most of us BS DID do all the stuff in those stupid articles.

What they forgot to mention, don't marry a dickwad a..whole.

NOTHING will prevent an affair if the other partner is DAMAGED!!!!!

Grrrrrr.

Post DDay 1, I forgave and we were both supposed to be in R and working on ourselves.

What I noticed was that I had to repress myself and absolutely cater to him. Drove me nuts having to give him that much attention to make up for the lack he was getting from OW Shrek. I burned three dinners. I haven't burned a damn dinner in over 20 years.

He needed CONSTANT attention. Didn't help that PTSD kept him constantly waking up at night. I had to get up with him and feed him his ego kibbles.

I just couldn't do it anymore. Then he went back to Afghanistan. She fed him what he needed, I didn't. She is sicker than he is. So, damaged found more damaged. They can have each other and I'm DONE DONE DONE.

Next guy better be a man that does NOT need constant attention or I'm walking. Infidelity will forever after be a deal breaker immediately.

Those stupid a.. articles just PISS ME THE F... OFF!!!!!

Sistermilkshake....Love Languages? Helpful before or after the A? We were using it long before the A and used the workbook. It was from a church sponsored workshop. I threw it away after DDay I was so mad.

Oh yeah! Thank you for this most timely post!

I just got back from an hour with my IC (also our MC) and somewhere in our conversation she inserted vague references to me basically still having sexually repressive thoughts, due to childhood influences and religious convictions. Just like my WH, I guess I can just assume that this is ALL MY FAULT then. Certainly seemed like he enjoyed sex with me over the past 23 years. We lived together for 2 years before getting married... Just because he really found he enjoyed the over-the-top dopamine-ridden monkey sex he had with the AP, suddenly it's just ME that has the hangups. Yeah, it's real easy to get crazy wild and passionate with the guy who just destroyed your self-esteem, trust, and love and damaged your kids with no regard. Sorry, I didn't get that memo (scratch that - report card - certainly feel like I'm being judged against an unrealistic standard).

If only I was a little more perfect, maybe he wouldn't have to cheat. Certainly we don't want him to dig a little deeper for his own "why"s...

Sorry, I'm venting. Really needed to spout off for a second!!!!

And no, that wasn't my IC's only message. She was very sympathetic to my side of this. I'm just reacting viscerally to that implication. We did talk about how communication about these hot button topics is important and how to have a collaborative approach.

Bottom line, as I see it, is that you can do everything possible to make your M great or better. But if you are not communicating properly, you are probably not addressing and solving the right problems. If the WS still believes that if his/her M isn't perfect, that gives them the "right" to cheat, you will still be in a M with a cheater. It's a commitment mentality vs. a cheater mentality.

Spare me the pretzel-twisting in the land of rainbow-farting unicorns. I can't offer perfect euphoria. Time for a reality check. And that doesn't mean "reality" has to suck. It means you work together COLLABORATIVELY to have the M you want. But that takes TWO people. Not just one.

OK, rant over.

Have a great day everyone.

Ok, another piece to throw in. Even the most stable marriages can be thrown off kilter by either spouse's ideas about love. We had been married over 30 years. I understood how love and sex from the first years has to change to a different, sustainable type of love and sex. My H did also. That is until society and a "counseling" friend told him that we had it all wrong. She told him that a hip, with it, man in the physical shape he is in should never have to give up the hot sexual attraction love and that "mature love" was just an excuse for a stale marriage. She then proceeded to show him how exciting life can be after age 50. I cannot compete with that no matter how fast I tap dance.

After the affair for us. It could be helpful for people that didn't, won't have an affair, too.

eta: I can totally understand your disgust for the book, though.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 1:16 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)]

Lovedyoumore - OW did the same with WH. Convinced him that passion is more important than commitment. That mature love and sex was a lie and only passion lasts. Yes there can be passion in a long term marraige but it will never compete with sex in a brand new relationship. Things change, people change but if you do it together and respect each other it can be just as good. She convinced him that it just meant I didn't love him and she did. Their hot sex proved how much more she loved him.

Truth, go for it. Put your two cents in. Heck, give us the buck fifty version. You deserve to let it out with us.

I think the closest thing to A-proofing a M would be for people to understand how an A happens, not just how to create a good M.

To teach couples what a slippery slope looks like. What the script is for a burgeoning WS/OP so they can recognize it when they start to say those things...or their spouse does.

Most importantly, to learn about boundaries. To learn to look around at the culture that encourages infidelity and be strong enough to say NO.

Finally, this is the hard part, for couples to look at their FOO issues. So often there's D, infidelity or CSA in the background that really hasn't been faced.

Only then is there a chance to even begin to call a M "affair proof".

The sexiest love language I know is fidelity.

I am totally with you on this one. So sick of that shit. I know that I have been a good wife, partner to my WS. If there is or was something that he did not like or want change then he should have spoken up. A decision should have been made that would have been in both interests to us.

You can not make someone be happy. It is their mindset. If someone wants to be unhappy they will be. I now know this. I have felt for a very long time that I could do song and dance around my WS just to get a smile out of him. I now know that it is him, the choices that he has made (that he can't like with) the man he hasn't been. All those things are what makes him unhappy. I now know that he needs to deal with all of that, not me. It is not my job to make sure he is happy.

Don't even get me started on the fact that we are suppose to meet the needs of our WS. My needs from my WS haven't been meet in years. I would like to have them meet, however that hasn't stopped me from enjoying my life.