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crazy - hugs honey!!

((((CD))))

I am so sorry. I see he held you in limbo, that you've struggled in R. Now he takes advantage of your loving heart to ask to see a person that should mean nothing to him.

Even if she dies, he's still a WH as long as he's willing to put another woman above his chosen life partner. It is your heart he is supposed to be guarding. If you are cut, he should bleed. People die every day and we don't visit each and every one of them.

You can forgive without having the person who did the damage in your life. Running to a person that helped cause his BW such pain isn't compassionate to the OW, it's cruel to you. Seeing your most recent posts, I don't admire your choice to agree to this.

He broke NC in July and brought al that hurt back to you. It doesn't seem like he's done the work needed for R. I see this buying plane tickets and sending him out there as a desperate attempt to win him back. As though if you let him say his goodbyes he'll finally leave the A in the past and see you for the wonderful woman you are. The truth is, he's a wayward at heart based on his actions currently. Her death will make it easier to keep her in fantasyland. She will be an angel now in his eyes. You're the very human, very hurt doormat.

Please focus on yourself and your healing. Are you with a good IC?

I read your post and my heart breaks for you.

ETA- seeing how people in my community rally around friends with cancer, I find it suspect that she has "no support". Either she's just as bad a person in the rest of her life as she was to your M, or she's the lone island of kindness and sanity in a dysfunctional community/family. I'd lay odds it's the former.

[This message edited by Holly-Isis at 10:40 AM, October 14th (Monday)]

Crazy-

I have read other posts here and most seem to think you are kind. I am probably one of the few who think you should cancel his return flight.

He still picked her over you. I don't care if she really is dying. My FWH had a friend call and say his AP

had breast cancer. The fact that he was tender hearted to care still pisses me off. She should be in the past not present or in the future.

My only hope for you is that is if she truly is dying or dies he can actually let her go and not continue carrying a torch for her.

ANNNNd.....On this board, isnt it normal to be back to dday , as if R never happened, if NC is broken? EVen if you approved of it, and arranged it. WHere will his head be when he returns? Wont he be back to dday? He certainly wont be where he was mentally. I just cant wrap my head around what they need to discuss.They already said goodbye. She interferred in your marriage in health. She now is manipulating in sympathy to interfer in sickness. ANd it seems everyone is running to her needs. Where is the line? I dont think they need to rehash and say goodbye. I would admit a mistake and take it back.

Happy Canadian Thanksgiving Crazy Daze. Please let us hear from you today. I read all the posts in your note here and hope we have not put you into too much of a funk. This was a NO-WIN situation and you did what YOU thought was right and what YOU could live with. IMHO I think you did right. Yes, there were risks involved, but it wouldn't have mattered what you did because it is just that type of situation. YOU did what YOU could live with and I admire your courage NO MATTER WHAT!!!

Thanks for the hugs, care and concern. All comments appreciated(even the harsh ones)

FWH came home a little shell shocked. Very loving and affectionate.

He was gone 2 nights. Stayed with a buddy (former roommate) and called from both the landline and his cell.

She is mostly bedridden. She can stand and walk with assistance or uses a wheelchair.

Her children are in their early 20's and cannot be with her all day. She watches TV and can use the phone.

FWH asked if she could call so we set up some boundaries;

I am to be informed if she calls during the day and given the gist of the converstion; calls at night are to be carried out in my presence; and he is not to call her.

I'll be honest, I am sad that I am once again sharing my husband, but I am a Christian and offering compassion to the sick and dying is the right thing for me to do.

I know you all don't agree with me but I lost a friend last year and it's little things that seem to help ease the transition.

FWH and I have been thru the dark days and have moved on.

Healing took a long time. Yes, he slipped and contacted her on her birthday but we talked it thru and moved on. We are human.

There is a saying:

Healing doesn't mean the damage didn't exist; Healing means the damage no longer controls our lives.

The A no longer controls our lives. I forgave them both because I needed to be better, not bitter.

Ok, I admit I will be glad when she is gone but I am not dancing up and down in anticipation of her death.

I do not know how long she has. They call this active dying and it could be days, weeks,months. They say she is already living on borrowed time so only God knows.

FWH and I are going on vacation in November and will be in our home town for a few days before heading south. If she is still alive, I am sure he will see her again. I could go visit with him but that's not going to happen. I have absolutely no desire to see her.

I am trying to be strong but this whole situation is stressful. I am going back to IC next week.

I get the compassion aspect to this, I really do. You have a huge heart.

The thing is, I think that it's unhealthy to allow a continued relationship just because there's a finish line in sight. This teaches him that he doesn't have to have personal boundaries - his environment will take care of it for him.

One of Crazz's big reasons for going ahead with the A is because he was switching jobs and knew that he would never see COW again after he left. He therefore gave himself permission to have some fun without "consequences" because the A was going to naturally end at some point.

Granted, death is a scary thing. Many people bend the rules for all sorts of things when imminent death is a factor (longstanding feuds absolved, repentance, etc) At the end of the day, you're still being disrespected. I wonder how many other life circumstances will present themselves after this one in which your H feels entitled to do what he damn well pleases because it's "temporary."

Circling back around, you are a kind soul. I wish that your compassion was reciprocated.

(((CD)))

[This message edited by Jrazz at 12:57 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)]

Why does your FWH want to continue a relationship with this person? To ease her into death? That isn't your FWH's (or yours) responsibility. They said their "good byes" why are you both determined to drag this out?

I feel you are getting some pay off from this, Crazy Daze. I do agree with you going to IC and try to dig down deep for what your real motivations may be.

I have a friend who has a NPD mother. She was very physically abusive to my friend as a child and, in fact, is still somewhat emotionally abusive to my dear friend. My dear friend hates her mother. However, weekly she goes to her mothers house and does some cleaning and then takes her mother to lunch if her mother insists. She can't stand her, resents going to her house, is looking forward to the day her mother passes. My friend tells me it is the right thing to do. I feel it is the wrong thing to do. My friend isn't being authentic. She isn't going to get "points" from anyone for resentfully helping her mother.

Many here are Christian and don't feel what you are doing is necessarily "Christian".

Maybe it's been mentioned and I missed it..but is the OW married? Im wondering how her BH feels about suddenly sharing his wife with her AP again.

Her children know? And are ok with this? Mom's OM leaving his BW and visiting her? Did she have her affair while she was married to their father? I just can't imagine how this is healthy for any of you,including OW.

The kids are young and can't be with her all day. So..did your WH care for her while he was there?

He came home telling you she was going to call and wanted you to set boundaries? He should be setting his own boundaries. And respecting his wife and his marriage above all others..that,IMO,is the Christian thing to do. Adultery is one of the commandments. And he is breaking it..an EA is an affair.

I think it is sad that you are doing this. I feel bad that your WH is putting you through this..and clearly expects you to continue to share him. You say the two of you have moved on..but he hasn't..and neither has OW. So..who exactly has moved on here?

You are not offering compassion. You are offering your husband.

I know this sounds harsh..Im worried about you. I think you are going to really regret doing this.

[This message edited by confused615 at 1:16 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)]

I'll be honest, I am sad that I am once again sharing my husband, but I am a Christian and offering compassion to the sick and dying is the right thing for me to do.

I would disagree. If you're at peace with this, fine. If you're not please consider this:

My pastor always says you can't put forgiveness and trust on the same tracks. There's likely to be a wreck at some point.

A woman can forgive her rapist, that doesn't mean she invites him into her life.

When my abusive x-stepmother is on her death bed, it doesn't mean that I have to insert her into my life. Not doing so doesn't mean I have no compassion. It means I have boundaries.

I think about Joseph. Though he forgave his brothers (forgiveness doesn't involve the other party at its core) he did not invite them into his life until he saw that they were remorseful and had changed their behavior...and their hearts. They were willing to give themselves to protect Benjamin. Admitting their sins was the beginning of reconciliation (being able to include people in your life after hurt). When Joseph saw their hearts had changed and they were willing to take action, that was the beginning of restoration- re-establishing the relationship to its previous status.

Given the break in NC, I don't see that either your FWH or OW were at the restoration level yet. Though I could possibly be wrong.

I just don't want you to "should" yourself into a place of pain.

ETA- and I believe strongly that there's a reason worshipping other gods is compared to adultery in the Bible. It is an extremely harmful act and can cause damage to the M, the family and even the faith of those involved.

[This message edited by Holly-Isis at 1:26 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)]

Oh, Holly, I feel you nailed it for me as to why this is so unhealthy and wrong in my eyes.

Remorsefulness. Neither the OW or your FWH truly feel remorse. If the OW did indeed feel remorse than she wouldn't have even asked to see your FWH or to keep in contact. OW would have bowed out of your marriage and died gracefully surrounded by her loved ones, not yours. If your FWH was truly remorseful he wouldn't have gone and seen the OW and want to continue contact.

I also agree that no one is over this affair and have moved on.

Hi Crazy Daze,

I believe that it truly was a no win situation for you from the point where your WH asked if he could visit with his former AP.

I am trying to be strong but this whole situation is stressful. I am going back to IC next week.

Does your WH know this? Have you told him this? Does he understand that in supporting is former co-worker/friend/AP that he is hurting you and his M? I get it that he SHOULD know this intuitively, but have you told him?

I understand not forbidding an adult to do something, but I also feel it is important to be honest with our spouses to prevent resentment and misperceptions. The fact that you are going to IC for assistance with this issue indicates to me that you are not OK with it. You may be ok with the idea of setting aside the OW’s role as an AP and your H providing support to a dying friend, but I read that you are not comfortable with the actual act. If this is the case, it needs to be expressed to your H (if you have not already).

ETA: Holly and SMS make a good point. I cannot envision FWW ever wanting to see/visit with any of her former APs ever again. She is ashamed of her behavior with them, and angry at them for their role as participants in her A. This is not how she felt the first year after dday, but it is now.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 1:38 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)]

Sorry if I offer a disjointed thought, but this has me bouncing all over the place.

Your H is shocking me by even wanting to go, much less you packing him up. Compassion? Christian? That is what got my H into bed with his ministering, compassionate OW. She had the answers to his aching, depressed soul.

I think being a strong, good person means standing up and refusing to be used by those who would do us harm. Not eye for eye, but turning over the tables once in a while when it warrants. Making a stand against injustice is just as important as compassion. You already gave forgiveness and compassion to him with R.

I am so sorry he has chosen to see her. Bless you.

To say NO to your WH request would likely have created resentment and resistance. You were in a no win situation.

But I completely agree with Holly-Isis and SisterMilkShake (which is not unusual).

We cant force our WS to bend to our will. We cant change them. We cant make them feel remorse or have empathy. All we can do is keep our own boundaries and when others do things to disrespect or hurt us we can have consequences for that.

Your WH is not remorseful and has no empathy. He is also not worthy of trust. With this request he is disregarding your feelings and is being very disrespectful of you.

Can you find it within yourself to stand up for yourself? To show some self respect and have consequences for your WH actions?

((Crazy Daze))

Really.Tough.Situation.

There a some things that just seem off to me.

Why does he need continued contact? What could they possibly have to talk about that would be appropriate given their A history?

And, you're saying you're moved through the A but if you're settled that it's no longer about the A, why do you need to hear the conversations?

I do not know how long she has. They call this active dying and it could be days, weeks,months. They say she is already living on borrowed time so only God knows.

Who are "they" that's giving you the status on her condition? Your fWH?

Him jumping on a plane seemed to indicate that death was imminent - like she could have died before he got there - "last rites" and all. Clearly it was not. In my experiences, those in hospice generally have at the most "days" not weeks or months.

How long are you willing for this to go on?

Sadly, it appears that the EA is not over and her "illness" is just a way for him to justify continued contact with a "clear conscience" - and with your approval.

That you allowed/condoned him going in the first place was HUGE and very "Christian" of you. He should at LEAST have had the decency to end the contact there. It's appalling that he has such little regard for you and your feelings.

If she has been told she is actively dying, then most likely she will pass within days. Although I wonder about her ability to communicate and stand with assistance because actively dying usually means on death's door. Everything is shutting down. My mom was actively dying and she passed about 12 hours after we were told that and same exact situation with my father.

Good luck to you and your husband. Doing kind things for others (especially ones you don't particularly care for) is usually what heals us. I think you did the right thing.

[This message edited by cissi at 4:04 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)]

I guess one could consider it kind to allow one's spouse to continue to have an EA.

eta: premature submission!

Others may feel it is totally unacceptable and the crossing of boundaries, regardless of imminent death.

I don't understand the elevation to sainthood that many seem to receive undeservingly once they pass or are going to.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 4:15 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)]

So sorry for the pain that this situation must be causing you.

At the end of the day you need to make the decisions that sit best with you. You ultimately live with you, have to look in the mirror at yourself so the only person whose opinion really matters is yours. What feels right to you? Do that.

Strength to you at this time, it cant be easy.

This situation is still bothering me. Where, in Judeo-Christian teaching does it say we should share our husband with another woman, dying or not? Why should any of us be less compassionate if we said no to our H if they want a death bed reunion? Isn't this the ultimate manipulation to use the sick role to resume an illicit A? I am still concerned for you that you felt the need to let him go. Will he be the grieving partner at the funeral?

I'll be honest, I am sad that I am once again sharing my husband, but I am a Christian and offering compassion to the sick and dying is the right thing for me to do.

Ok, I admit I will be glad when she is gone but I am not dancing up and down in anticipation of her death[/quote

I have no doubt you are a woman with great compassion, and a faithful Christian as well but really wonder if you don't feel terribly guilty for knowing you will be glad when she is gone?

You are only human.

I have written and erased 3 times now b/c I just can't find the words.

You have found compassion for your WH and for OW ( while they have none for you) but I hope you can give even more to yourself.

(((((crazy)))))