SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Razor, her WH never asked to go see the OW, she just told him to pre-emptively.

I wonder why you are trying to do something so "grand" as allowing your WH to see the OW with your permission, and hiding behind religion to do it? I'm Christian, that doesn't mean I would ever let my H contact OW for any reason, regardless if it's on her deathbed or not. So what are you getting out of this? Do you think this will make him realize just how amazing you are to have let him have that time with his OW and he will love you more? Do you think that this will make him more grateful to you? I fear none of these things would ever happen.... he has RECENTLY broken NC, and you volunteered to send him to see OW, and he will remember that as how much you also know they "were meant to be" and "special" to each other. This action, and the continued permission to have further contact, has cemented in his and her heads that what they have done has validity, and wasn't so wrong after all.

I forgave a nephew for stealing my earrings once. That doesn't mean I ever let him use my bathroom that was inside my bedroom ever again so he could gain access to my other jewelry.

I'm sorry, I know I posted before, but I just really wanted him to realize how he was not being remorseful in realizing how he was hurting you by being with her. It has nothing to do with your Christian goodwill, it has to do with him putting you above her and he is not doing that. And that makes me very sad for you. And very sad that you think he doesn't need to.

Last spring my best friend's mother was "actively dying" of liver and pancreatic cancer. She was given her initial diagnosis February 1, 2013. You know when she finally did pass away? June 30, 2013. She was alive, awake, and for the most part "functioning" even though she too had been given last rites. She slipped into a coma on June 27th. That is a long time to me when you consider that she was told in February that she had about a month at best.

I am of the opinion that a true friend does not encourage a person to engage in bad behavior, to betray their marriage vows, to go against their moral values.

So APs do not get to go back to being "friends". If either is remorseful then they should be ashamed of their behavior together and not want to be reminded of it. They would certainly not want to reminisce.

A death bed should be the time to make amends, not cause more hurt feelings.

Just my opinion.

If you are not comfortable I would say no more.

My heart goes out to you.

Every minute of every day, every one of us is approaching our deaths. Just like OW with cancer, we never know exactly when it is going to happen. Cancer, "active dying" or whatever excuse one wants to use to see AP *just one more time* is exactly that: an excuse.

NC means NC. You are now condoning an EA, and possibly even a PA.

How do OW's family members feel about her married affair partner hanging around during *their* last days to be with her?

I agree with Holly-Isis, Sister Milk shake and the others who are against the renewed EA. There is no basis for it in the Bible, Old or New Covenant.

The only verse that comes to mind regarding funerals and who should go is,

"Let the dead bury their own dead."

This whole thing seems sick to me.

edited to correct grammar.

[This message edited by HurtButHopeful? at 7:19 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)]

Sorry, did you say somewhere you checked this story out? Or now that he is all honest and caring, you took his word for it?

Crazy Daze,

You wrote that you are sad to be sharing your husband again. Does this mean that they have reconnected romantically, and you are aware of this?

If you do not believe that they have reconnected romantically, or if you H has claimed they haven't, I gently recommend you leave a VAR at home on the days you go to work, and see if you can catch a conversation of theirs. It may reveal the true nature of their connection. You have a right to know.

What does your H say about her? Does he express romantic feelings?

As others have asked, how does her family feel about your H, the OM, being there?

If you are present for one of their conversations, please let us know how it goes. We're worried for you. We don't want them to hurt you anymore.

A death bed could be the time to make amends, but maybe the dying woman wants to. She is dying, for god's sake. She is no more threat. I think you did the right and difficult thing.

t/j @hobbeskat

Wouldn't making amends mean that she wanted to talk to Crazy Daze and ask for forgiveness - show remorse?

I haven't read anything here about her wanting to do that, only that she wanted to talk to her WH.

Not to be argumentative, but how is that making amends?

Wow, that was an amazing thing, CrazyDaze. Blessings to you.

I have a sibling who to this day regrets staying away from someone's bedside when they died because it was cancer you could see and the person was really embarrassed. The sibling still remembers the lady, who was a mentor and he kicks himself for listening to her and not going.

And I realize it's an OW, but I don't know what I would do in a similar situation, either.

I had a life experience recently and decided to let XPervert attend and many people didn't understand.

What I felt is that I had the rest of my life to live and could not tolerate waking up every day knowing that I denied someone such an experience.

It was one very brief spot in our time on the planet and so I gave it, like CrazyDaze chose. I understand the suspicion of some on the thread, but with life and death, there must be compassion, too, surely? And then the instant is gone again, anyway.

That was a real gift you gave.

[This message edited by Ashland13 at 2:58 PM, October 16th (Wednesday)]

with life and death, there must be compassion, too, surely? And then the instant is gone again, anyway.

Ashland, there was a post about the WH coming home and now they are going to continue talking on the phone. Not an instant. It was also a weekend WH spent with OW.

As someone else pointed out, we are all "actively dying". Each day we live brings us closer to our own death. With your kind of logic, Ashland, we (BS's) might as well let our WS's continue their relationships with their AP's because they are "actively dying". We also don't ever know when our last day is, the poor AP might step in front of a bus (I hope) today, so let the WS's see their AP's. The compassionate thing is to let our WS's continue their relationships. Yeah, not buying it.

Now lets all go sing "Kumbaya" at Charlie Manson's death bed, okay?

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 5:03 PM, October 16th (Wednesday)]

CrazyDaze: I understand your compassion. I understand what it is to be a Christian. I can bet you one thing without a doubt! If you were to talk to ANYONE from your church, pastor etc... They would tell you NOWAY. I understand that you have forgiven but nowhere does it say that you should be ok with your H with seeing his ex AP. I am Christian, I lost my father to cancer when I was young. I remember how horrible it was to see him suffer and he did suffer until his last breath.

All this will do is relief his guilt for wanting to be by her side. He could be affectionate with you because you gave him "permission" and are aware that he saw her, that she can call or he can call her. All this will do is make him feel the pain of losing her so strong that he confuses it with hurting so much that he rekindles his feelings for her.

I'm so sorry but I can't believe he actually considered going!! Being a Christian doesn't equal being a doormat. Like I said I'm a Christian and I have forgiven my H. It's been way more difficult forgiving her because she's never felt guilt over what she did. Her response to my H when he told her " I can't do this anymore, I love my wife and I've hurt her so much" her response?? "and?"

I pray that one day I'm completely able to forgive in my heart not just saying it.

I would seriously reconsider this decision you made

So maybe it wasn't the right thing to do. I spoke from my heart and not my head.

Thinking that if it was me dying, I would like to be in touch with people who meant a lot to me. But I wasn't really thinking about what my actions would do to me.

She has also been in touch with a former fiance. Mind you, he isn't married, but she has reached out to him as well.

She is divorced but her ex passed away years ago.

I don't know what her kids think. They know she is dying and I believe they are overwhelmed.

I set the boundaries over the phone calls. They may not seem like boundaries but there are no words of love or terms of endearment. She calls him by his legal name, no pet names or nick names. She rants about her meds, the food,her sisters.

It does seem that I invited her back into my marriage, but I thought she was at the end of her life. It now looks like her life may be ending but not as soon as I thought.

Right thing to do? Maybe, maybe not but the fact remains, she is dying and I feel it's right to be kind and compassionate to those who are dying.

(((Crazy Daze)))

It sounds like you are following your boundaries and values, and that's what matters.

I set the boundaries over the phone calls. They may not seem like boundaries but there are no words of love or terms of endearment. She calls him by his legal name, no pet names or nick names. She rants about her meds, the food,her sisters.

Has he respected your boundaries?

(((Crazy))))

Hugs sweetheart. It sounds like your FWH could do with some IC. It must have been very hard for him to have had the emotional 'bind' laid on him by OW, and it sounds like he is also confused between gallantry and his duty as a Christian; and that whilst compassion and pity might be emotions at play, it may be that the over-riding one is that of guilt on his part.

The decision to go to her bedside was made quickly presumably because of the sense of emergency given the last rites and so a hasty and wrong decision that he may now already be regretting it deep down.

It is a challenging situation, one that has compromised your FWH, and one that could afford much personal growth for him if he can step back a little from the knee-jerk sense of obligation, and really look at himself and his motives.

But step back and really look at himself he must.

I hope you can figure out some boundaries when you see your IC.

He's not confused by anything, he knew exactly what to say to get Craze to let him openly continue his EA. He broke NC in June to email her about her birthday. And apparently he broke NC again to find out about her "dying". Craze went right along with it, and sent him on his way to have a weekend alone with OW.

You know, in the Bible they tell you to "go and sin no more"... they don't tell you to continue to contact the person you have sinned with to help each other out and comfort one another at the end of your life. Your WH still clearly has feelings for her, or he wouldn't have contacted her twice in the past 4 months, and you have given him permission to continue to sin like that. Whether they refer to each other as pet names or not, he is still carrying a torch for her, and you know it. An emotional affair is an affair, and an affair is a sin according to every Bible I have ever read.

Crazy Daze,

I am not trying to be mean or beat up on you. I'm just mad at your H for continuing the A, under any circumstances. And I am upset for you that you fell for it.

We are all going to die. If I have the benefit of knowing I'm going to die soon, I have no plans to call my high school boyfriend, my college boyfriends or my ex husband to my deathbed. They all have lives of their own, and they do not belong in my and my husband's lives, or in my children's lives. I can die just fine without them, and they will just make a mental note *if* they ever hear of my passing.

I hope OW really is dying, and really soon, because if she isn't what excuse is your WH going to make up next time?

I understand where you were coming from when you gave your permission to your husband to go to her bedside; however, as others have stated, it should not have even been an option on the table. No contact means no contact - that said, your husband shouldn't even know she's dying right now if your conditions for R were actually being met. So, compassion led you to make a poor judgement call - that does not make it too late to change course. The continued phone contact is absolutely not necessary - he got to say his goodbyes when you so graciously allowed him to fly out to her and spend the weekend at her bed side. Now it's time he gets back into the marriage and focuses on his responsibilities as a truly moral and decent man - honoring his wife and his marriage. The time he spends on the phone with his dying mistress is just more time stolen from it's rightful owner - YOU, his wife - and would be better spent in a chair talking to a therapist. It's up to you to see to it that this shift in priorities happens now as (gently) you have unwittingly granted your husband permission to continue his affair right under your nose.

(((CrazyDaze))) you are a kind and gentle soul who deserves so much more than you're getting right now.

[This message edited by anewday78 at 9:42 PM, October 17th (Thursday)]

I think if Crazy Daze is making these decisions, and has her eyes open and is being true to herself, then its her decision to make and not ours to judge.

I think life and feelings are very complicated and not always black and white. It does show a lot of compassion. I hope that it isnt due to a pressure to self sacrifice, or because she thinks her feelings arent as important. I definitely understand why everyone is concerned on her behalf. To be honest, so am I. But I still defend her right to choose.

((((Crazy daze))))) thinking of you!

I had a terse phone call from fOW's BH a few weeks ago, asking me to inform my fWH that OW has terminal breast cancer.

Not sure what that was all about, he put the phone down very quickly. The fact that he wanted me to tell my H would indicate that it was a request from his WW that my H be informed - was she reaching out to my H in the hope that he might contact her once again? Probably.

I immediately told my H of the call, and told him no way would I sanction him going to see her or contacting her in any way. He was horrified at the thought, said there was no way he ever wanted anything more to do with her, and would tell me if she tried to contact him.

I would expect the same reaction from your H if he was in true R - not cruelty or vindictiveness, just indifference.