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THREE and 1/2 weeks ago I received "full disclosure" from WH. In it he admitted to NOT being NC with MOW coworker for the previous 4+ months (amongst other things) despite telling me repeatedly that he was, even concocting ridiculous lies to "prove" he was NC. NOW that I know he'd been lying about it all that time his reassurances about being NC NOW with her fall flat (imagine that?). The fact that I don't buy it immediately sends him off into a soapbox speech about how I'm "throwing" his full disclosure "in his face" and by doing so I am "pushing him away"

He claims that my need to check on his emails while he sleeps when he has done "nothing wrong" the previous week is absurd, how dare I question him all he is doing is "WORKING" !!! How DARE I question him when he goes missing for 4 hours on a Tuesday afternoon! How dare I question him when NOW he is being honest. He claims that I am LOOKING for ammo to use because apparently he thinks I WANT THIS TO GO ON THIS WAY. That's right, according to him I WANT to find MORE because apparently I have some need to feel MORE IMMENSE PAIN.

Are you effing kidding me? What am I still doing here? He gets this on NO level whatsoever. Am I crazy?

[This message edited by OldCow18 at 11:40 AM, November 18th (Monday)]

You're not the crazy one. What you want is the transparency that most remorseful WS's beg to be able to provide their BS's so that they can build up some credibility again. The one who's crazy is your husband expecting he can bluster you into settling for less than that from him, a known and proven liar.

Seems to me he's telling you that if you keep looking for ammo, you will find it. He has no intention of changing his behavior. And he *likes* cake. So if you could just stop your infernal snooping and questioning, then everybody (that matters to him) will be happy.

grrrrrrrrrrr.....

I commend you for NOT punching him in the throat.

(((((OldCow18)))))

OldCow, have you outed MOW to her H? You could potentially end this torture now.

(((OldCow))))

He fights me on this crap all of the time. If I'm in a decent place, great, everything is fine and he's full of "I'm sorry" and "I love you" and does the right things, etc. But if I'm in a sad/scared/angry/paranoid place, he's going to let me have it because he's a defensive a-hole. I mean, 3 days can't go by before he's yelling at me because of my roller coaster emotions again. Today he started an email that said "Heaven forbid I stick up for myself" WHY is his focus on sticking up for himself? It should be about calming my fears, making me feel safe and understanding what he has done.

And he *likes* cake.

Preferably nut-free cake.

^If I were to guess, I'd say it's because he's not really in R with you. If HIS feelings, and HIS pride, and HIS needs are more important than YOURS, whom he BETRAYED...he's not in this with you. The fog is strong, or the A may still be going on.

If he can't make you, and your healing a priority, then he's not all in this with you.

I'm sorry.

Just now he sends me this email:

"You know what (OC), (IC) asks me why I bother defending myself, it’s in my nature, it’s how I’m wired, but in this case it’s wrong, so I’m sorry for today, I should not have said anything"

And the cycle continues.

Are you in MC? I know the belief around here is to never take a remorseless spouse to mc but maybe a very good mc could help him extract his head from his ass? That is if you even want to attempt that. I know as a bs I have jumped back and forth about separating, staying, divorcing, etc 20 times a day.

I just saw the update email. Have you seen the term hovering around SI? I do believe it fits here.

The problem to me in that last e-mail from him is the word 'bother' - it changes the whole meaning of it for me. It speaks of 'why bother defending myself when she's just going to go off and not believe me anyway'.

'I'm sorry - I should not have said anything' doesn't sound much better to me either. It's like saying 'I should have just silently put up with her being wrong' instead of telling her.

If he'd said something like;

'Sorry OC, I was out of line, of course you're going to be worried and question me after I disappear for four hours without letting you know where I am - I'm sorry I put you in this position in the first place'

I'd be more inclined to think he may have 'got it' now. What he said still smacks of only 'poor me' to me. It shouldn't be about 'defending' himself anyway - it's about HELPING YOU with the loss of trust HE caused in the first place.

[This message edited by sinsof thefather at 12:26 PM, November 18th (Monday)]

Oh yes, I totally recognize the whole "Well, NOW I'm being honest, so why don't you trust me" deal.

I lost count of the ddays and the broken NC. And towards the end, WH had the nerve to say to me the reason he couldn't R was because "I can't live with a woman that thinks I'm a liar"

Didn't matter to me by that point anyway. But the gall.

He did also add "I can't say I BLAME you for thinking I'm a liar still..."

Then immediately after saying that, he expected me to walk away from all of our joint assets (becasue many of our joint assets are "toys" of his) and just have "faith" he would take care of me if I was ever in need.

So, he was asking me to give him all marital assets in our pending divorce and walk away with a car worth about $6,000. And he would get assets totalling about $120,000 because he didn't want to sell any of his race cars, etc.

So, "I don't blame you for thinking I'm a liar, but please trust me that I will always be there for you."

Sorry...totally went off on a tangent there.

Thing is, you can't trust that NOW they are being honest. Because when you find out, yet again that they've been lying, what's the worst in their mind that will happen? What most of us BS do. Forgive again eventually and take more crap.

That was my big mistake. Forgiving again, again, again and again...where was his motivation to finally be honest??

OC,

He's selfish. Simple. He doesn't want R, he wants you to just get over it. HE feels HE should dictate how you heal in order to best serve HIM.

I'm sorry you are going through this, but YOU can stop this crazy crap. You already know how.

Believe me, I know it's hard to kick them out and go NC. It hurts. Feels like you ripped your leg or arm off. But, once the shock from that pain subsides, no more crazy and no more hurts.

Selfish is as selfish does. Put yourself first and don't let him keep sucking you back in.

Sweeite, love yourself a little more and don't let him do this to you.

BTW

Preferably nut-free cake.

Seems to me he's telling you that if you keep looking for ammo, you will find it. He has no intention of changing his behavior. And he *likes* cake. So if you could just stop your infernal snooping and questioning, then everybody (that matters to him) will be happy.

Couldn't have said (typed?) this better myself. He wants you to "get over it". How about he facilitate that by, oh I don't know, being understanding??? By saying, "wow, I fucked up...whatever you need to do to get over this so we can move on, please do it." YOUR healing should be his priority - plain and simple. Seems to me like he's not all in when it comes to R...if the A is still going on strong then I'm sorry. You deserve better.

[This message edited by strongerdaybyday at 12:33 PM, November 18th (Monday)]

Have you seen the term hovering around SI? I do believe it fits here.

I've not heard that, but assume it means he's on here snooping himself? Actually, I told him about SI and asked him to read on here. I don't believe he would ever sign up and actually post, he's not that guy, but I hoped he would read others experiences and advice to help get his head out of his ass and see that what I am going through is totally normal and to see what real R should look like.

Since I told about it I noticed him reading here a bit, mostly in the Wayward forum. I told him upfront that I didn't care he figures out who I am or what I've posted because I have nothing to hide.

Sins, I agree with you 100%, but one place I most definitely get into trouble with him is when I "split hairs" by dissecting what he is saying word for word. I'm trying to 'hear' the bigger picture of what he is saying instead of focusing on the incredibly insensitive way he words it, because believe me, I'm right there with you on how you broke down his email.

Did you ever tell the OW's BH? Did you notify him of the broken NC?

Oops that was suppose to say "hoovering". Hoovering is when a remorseless WH will start making nice, saying the right things just to pull you back in. They Hoover aka suck you back in only to start the same old crap again once the bs starts to feel there is hope.

As far as snooping, I totally get it. I don't care either. I encouraged my WH to join and read. He reads and was able to figure out my username. I have nothing to hide. Everything I type is true and not embellished and I don't care if he reads it. A few posts have actually made him see his actions in a different light.

[This message edited by Blameitontherain at 12:52 PM, November 18th (Monday)]

And in all fairness, ugh, I hate fairness lol, I post here with the worst of it. He hasn't been a complete neanderthal nut-free cake eating insensitve prick all this time. He is in IC and has been since the first week (although he did take a few weeks off in September but is back now). He did read How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair. He is more transparent than he's been so far and getting better (this one is tough because I feel you either are or you aren't, but he is getting better at giving me his daily whereabouts), and he has given me all passwords, etc., I've had them all since the week of d-day. We keep battling, but he keeps coming back for more. He's gotten me flowers, etc. He's now reading here on SI and came to me and said he would do whatever it takes, then told me he learned that here, ha. He tries to break the ice with self depracting humor, he's been hugging me more, etc...

I just think he wants this to all go away, he wants his life back, he wants his wife back. He wants to keep the job he loves and is good at and has a future with after not having a great career record his whole life, but that includes working with her. I think I even beleive the A ended on 6.8.13. He's not in touch with his emotions, he's defensive and angry, he always has been. But now everything is different. I think in his mind he truly beleives that he won't do this again, I think he truly believes that harmless contact at work is nothing he needs to trouble me over or put me in pain over despite trying to get him to understand how it makes things worse.

I don't know, we are all so complicated aren't we? Any given conversation can have me ready to divorce him, and beleive me, many have. But it's only 5 months, we have kids, we had a life. He doesn't want to D. I just worry that we can want this marriage until the cows come home, but that doesn't mean we have what it takes to fix the damage he has done.

My WH's IC told him to stand up to me too and not let me control him. Yea thanks IC. I want to know the truth of the last 4 years of my life while he was off at motels f***ing MOW. Yep that's very controlling of me. A BS has/had no control!! WTF!

Oops that was suppose to say "hoovering". Hoovering is when a remorseless WH will start making nice, saying the right things just to pull you back in. They Hoover aka suck you back in only to start the same old crap again once the bs starts to feel there is hope.

Ah yes, I have wondered this at times also. I think he does do this, but I'm not so sure it's malicous, if that makes sense. WH doesn't do much without a huge kick in the ass, when he finally gets it, he tends to do the right thing. I'm not sure if that is the same.

And to those who have asked, no I have not spoken with MOW's BH. I have been told repeatedly that he knows, he also works with them but in a different building. I don't believe that he knows the full extent of what went on, but I do believe that he was told "something". I'm sure he is aware that there is not NC given that they work together so closely. I don't know if he knows they were going to breakfast together in a group, or to group b-day lunches in the same car, etc. that stuff I most certainly did not know until "full disclosure".

[This message edited by OldCow18 at 1:04 PM, November 18th (Monday)]