SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

@SMS:

Yeah, feeling like I just gave birth to a baby is not sexually arousing to me At. All.

And this:

Also, most all women know that to praise a guy's dick is some of the best ego kibbles out there. This is especially true for OW's. Women also know that the quickest way to undermine a man's self confidence and to hurt him is to denigrate his package.

Exactly. It's not about size, and if a partner comments about size it seems to me that's with an aim toward manipulation.

A guy being comfortable with whatever he's got - not an egomaniac, and not an apologist - is the attractive feature, not the 'package' itself.

jmho.

Question for you guys...when, and how, and by whom does the whole size issue come from to start with? Does it start with preadolescent ribbing by other guys or what?

I don't agree 100% on everything in this thread - but I absolutely agree that women aren't cheating because of the size of a man's penis. That is just ridiculous. As was pointed out, men wear pants. How would the woman even know how big or small the man is?

I also agree with the stance that there are many ways to please a woman, and these methods work just fine.

Guys, stop obsessing. Why are you always looking for 'bigger'? Bigger breasts, bigger penis, etc. Not everything needs to be supersized.

Painpaingoaway, For me it came from a combo of "guy-ribbing" and "porn influence".

Having no male role model due to my father choosing to completely leave the family upon my parents D when I was 12 was instrumental in my "journey to this insecurity".

I had many questions and a natural curiosity about sex...but didnt have a man to go to to seek this advice. So I found my answers elsewhere....from other boys and porn.

My Grandpa was a healthy influence on me as a boy...he passed when I was 9 years old. But I remember him holding my door for my Nana, treating her with nothing but kindness, working hard.

I do think I had a solid relationship with my Grandpa, who lived next door to us. I believe I would have felt completely comfortable talking to him about sex and things like penis size.....but still can't think of a single adult other than him I would have done that with.

Truthfully, my own Dad never really bonded with me or me with him. I have since learned he had a wacked childhood....he did the best he could without choosing to really explore his "hidden influences".

Like I said before.....real women did not program me to be concerned about my penis size. Other boys and porn did.

Kicker is....the guys I was friends with back then didn't know any better than me and we were all about the same size! So thats why I think porn was a factor in my journey to this issue.

IMO, porn is destructive. Period. Maybe if you don't start using it until you are a solid adult, mature enough....it might not be destructive. But when you use it in your formative years....I just don't see how it could be anything but destructive.

That is my experience and what I believe led to my issues surrounding this topic. But I also suspect this anxiety has been around long before porn was around....so there are other routes to this stance.

Peace to us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 12:05 PM, January 3rd (Friday)]

Why are you always looking for 'bigger'? Bigger breasts

Careful...this is a generalization. I have already stated I find MANY shapes and sizes and ages appealing and beautiful. My wife is average breast size...might even be on the smaller side...and I adore them. Her fAP did not seek out bigger...my wife is smaller breasted than his wife. I have not got a good glimpse of his new OW but she is considerably shorter and fuller than my wife.

Most of my solid guy-friends are NOT into just one size, one color and many do not seek out just double D women. (However, I know of a few white women that JUST date black men...curious).

Honestly, I am glad women are not typically as visually stimulated as men are....for the simple fact that a womans body is far more interesting and attractive to look at than a guys body. There is a valid reason why guys getting married all dress alike....and there is so much variation in a womans wedding dress.

Whats interesting about my view on what I am stimulated by is that it is...changing.

I am finding myself giving more weight to the various other aspects of a woman that the women to this post have submitted.....the foreplay, relational, caring, committed side of a girl is really starting to be a factor for me.

When I first started to notice this subtle shift in me...it was unnerving. Because when I started to combine my physical attraction to other women with this "percieved" solid-character traits of women who DON'T cheat on their husbands....I started to fool myself into thinking those perceptions were reality. and it made a RA seem to be a "real" option....my surface level fantasies seemed to almost be an option at one point in my journey. Like I had more "facts" that allowed fantasy to move into reality...even though it was wrong, Lord help me...I did this. Those are passing.

The fact is I CAN have this "full connection" with a woman....

I NOW see that I COULD have this "full" connection with my wife at a level I never thought possible before.....possible to have with ANY woman. I limited myself. Sure, my wife has FOO issues that limited herself too...but my limitations came from within. I get that I can't have this "full connection" with a woman unless the woman is willing to allow it. But just because my wife wasn't open to it....doesn't mean I can't be.

It is with this realization that I take some comfort that some of my limiting-cycles of my past will not repeat into my future.

Again...shocking how immature I was in certain aspects of my life. I am hopeful I am actually growing and maturing...and that I continue to have the courage to do so for a lifetime.

God be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 12:04 PM, January 3rd (Friday)]

..body image!!!!!.. for both men and women, the perception is everything.

..some women get breast augmentation, some get reductions

..from nose jobs to lyposuction to botox to facelifts.. image and ego

..some of it is culture based.. media driven..seeking what we perceive to be the perfect body, perfect breasts, perfect penises.

..who can forget poor George on Seinfeld after he was in the pool and protested about being misjudged on size because of 'shrinkage'!!!

..guys with 4" want 6", guys with 6" think 8" would be better, guys with 8" ..well you get the idea.

..I'm happy with the 10" God gave me!!

JUST KIDDING, JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!

I think guys that have been watching too much porn have seen these 'studs' with big dicks and are giving themselves inferiority complexes cuz they don't think they measure up.

..I recall the H.S. days in the showers.. most of us were the same, but one guy was just abnormally huge in comparison, and we all thought.."OMG" no wonder he has so many gfs!!

..that was of course, H.S. mindset of 16-18 y.o.

..I would agree completely that A's don't start in an effort to find the biggest penis..that's simply ridickulis!

..I would tend to think that my fWW's AP WAS a 'BIG DICK' whether he had one or not!

smy

that's simply ridickulis!

somanyyears...SMILE!!!!

Enjoyed your humor....big Seinfeld fan here.

"I don't know how you guys walk around with that thing down there anyway."--Elaine.

I also know my brother and I joke when we stand up and pee off our boat....

blakesteele "Dang that waters cold!"

blakesteeles brother "And deep!!!!"

So we DO have a sense of humor about this.

Adultery fucks with so much.....BS initially search and search to identify their role in their spouses decision to commit adultery (do this BEFORE we finally accept the fact that we had zero role in our spouses decision, but the damage is done), and doing so further erodes self image and self confidence....self confidence is just another one of the items on that list of things adultery destructs.

Peace.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 12:13 PM, January 3rd (Friday)]

Question for you guys...when, and how, and by whom does the whole size issue come from to start with? Does it start with preadolescent ribbing by other guys or what?

I honestly don't know when that concern even entered my consciousness. I certainly never (everrrrr) had any conversations amongst a group of guys about the subject.

Ok, bit of a t/j here...

it would seem that the vast majority of ladies like the oral action. Just saying! In my personal experience, and judging by the comments of that group of ladies that night: it is his willingness to lick that is of far more importance than the size of his dick!

Just curious because this is what I always thought but I've known a few women who were reluctant about this.

Just curious because this is what I always thought but I've known a few women who were reluctant about this.

Two thoughts about this. One is that the women may be concerned that she may be less than "fresh" at the time. Second, they don't want to feel obliged to have to reciprocate with a b.j.

Porn has also given us women issues about what our vaginas look like. Porn vajayjays have had labiaplasty, collagen injections, and make up...

And... For some women, the idea of having someone that up close and personal with our junk makes us feel vulnerable.

it would seem that the vast majority of ladies like the oral action. Just saying! In my personal experience, and judging by the comments of that group of ladies that night: it is his willingness to lick that is of far more importance than the size of his dick!

Just curious because this is what I always thought but I've known a few women who were reluctant about this.

Religious or lousy upbringing that sex is "bad/dirty", anything other than plain vanilla missionary is sinful, coupled with extreme body issues, reciprocation, fear of cleanliness, porn stigmas, etc.....recipe for disaster and reluctance. Do they want it? Sure. But it seems "wrong" or "forbidden".

My husband wasted no time in quoting Proverbs 5:18-19 and the entire book of Song of Solomon.

[This message edited by Aubrie at 1:29 PM, January 3rd (Friday)]

Sistermilkshake,

Thank you. The first reason you mentioned did occur to me but the second one hadn't since I never ask for that.

Proverbs 5:18-19

May your fountain be blessed, and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth. A loving doe, a graceful deer--may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be intoxicated with her love.

I simply love my wife. This thread speaks to the physical aspects of a body....I love my wifes body....always have. The perfect and imperfect parts alike. Pregnant, heavy, thin, smooth, wrinkled, hairy, shaved, natural hair and dyed....all the changes I have witnessed over 20 years of knowing her....I love them all.

Even through this intense pain and viewing her as the enemy....deep down I simply love her.

I regret some of the ways I did not "cherish" this woman whom I profess to love.

Proverbs 5:15

"Drink water from your own cistern, running water from your own well."

When I chose to use porn I did NOT follow this part of Proverbs. I drank from another well.

I see that now, I have identified why I did what I did, desire to change that.......and am changing.

It appears to me that all sin hurts intimacy...not just adultery.

We are struggling hard with intimacy issues....because both of us contributed to that issue.

God help us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 1:46 PM, January 3rd (Friday)]

Ok, bit of a t/j here...

it would seem that the vast majority of ladies like the oral action. Just saying! In my personal experience, and judging by the comments of that group of ladies that night: it is his willingness to lick that is of far more importance than the size of his dick!

Just curious because this is what I always thought but I've known a few women who were reluctant about this.

…Or, in other cases, we want it but our partners think it's dirty or refuse to reciprocate. Then the negative thoughts start in - "Do I smell/taste OK? I just showered… He bragged about doing it with his ex, why won't he do it with me? etc." Unfortunately, there are some guys (and I'm sure there are girls out there with the same attitude, but reversed genders) out there who think it's just fine for a chick to go down on them, but ask for the same and they pretend you never spoke. Not sure why that is… Is it because they watched a lot of porn where oral was only performed on the guy? Is it because they're naturally selfish lovers and "don't feel like it", so they don't (but expect it done for them)? Either way, that can wreck a person's self-esteem too, if they let it.

You've probably heard the insults about "her you-know-what smells like fish!" or "her you-know-what is so loose, she must be a raging slut!" etc etc… One of the fastest ways (aside from breast size or seeing your love ogle a hotter porn star, etc) for a woman to feel self-conscious is to hear that, even if it's not directed at her. Sometimes we grow up hearing that the vagina is the ultimate armpit of a woman's body. If we're scared about smelling like fish or being too loose, why would we feel comfortable with having someone "down there"? Sad. We should all be growing up with positive messages about the human body, male and female, not all these insults getting stuck in our heads.

And... For some women, the idea of having someone that up close and personal with our junk makes us feel vulnerable.

Ok, that makes sense when you put it that way. Without that insight I would have assumed it would be the opposite.

To use a very old quote...

It's not the size of the waves, but the motion of the ocean that counts!!

Yes, I do tell my H that he is big when I'm trying to turn him on - because that's what he likes to hear. But ultimately, I don't care about his size. There is so much more that happens prior to penetration that gets me turned on.

I've had that alcohol-related conversation with my girlfriends too. Most of us just don't care...as long as the guy's technique is good. Most of us want to feel desired, to feel sexy. That usually happens for women BEFORE a man takes his clothes off.

We also want to "smile" and it's been proven scientifically that most women can't or don't "smile" with just intercourse. If a guy is good at foreplay, most women won't even notice the size of his dick right away. And foreplay is not just tongue or fingers. It's a kiss on the back of the neck, whispering in her ear, etc, etc. It's the way you make us feel that contributes most to our "smiles".

I respectfully disagree.

I had a number of long-term & shorter-term relationships before marrying. An average or slightly larger penis was better in terms of my physiology and the sex act.

During one lovemaking session while my WH and I were engaged, I remember thinking "Gee, he's really small. Can I really marry a guy with a penis this small?"

The answer was that I was not marrying his penis, and the qualities I found in him were the reasons why I married him. Qualities like character, integrity, and fidelity/loyalty, which, in retrospect, he showed me he did NOT reliably have because he woke up stupid during the 25th or 26th year of marriage.

The reality was that he was a lousy lover because he was not into foreplay, he was of the wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am mentality.

This isn't true for me, either. WH was really good at foreplay, but he has an undersize penis. During my younger days, I had a "hotter burner on my stove" and sex was mutually satisfying even while I have to admit I wished the penetration aspect lasted longer than 15 - 20 seconds. As we aged, things became more *normalized* for me and while foreplay was still awesome, penetration by a small penis didn't bring me to orgasm, no matter the position, even with battery-operated help.

As he aged, he began experiencing ED and PE. His foreplay abilities were stellar, but the penetration (if he was able) and the follow through (if PE didn't kick in) just weren't there. Certain positions are often more beneficial for a female to orgasm, and the use of a vibrator can be helpful.

When my women friends and I have had this discussion about the size of the penis & whether or not it matters, some women say it doesn't matter, then admit their lovers range from 4 to 5 inches. A few of us wonder if these other women have ever had sex with a man who is of normal or slightly larger size, and what they'd say if they had experienced this with a man of normal size who knew what he was doing.

Physiologically, the walls in the vaginal canal are meant to grip the penis during orgasm, whether it's a "clitoral" orgasm or a "vaginal" orgasm. This gripping of the penis by the vaginal walls enhances and often prolongs the female orgasm. If the male organ is barely there, too thin, too short, or not erect enough, the gripping of the muscles around the penis is not as intense as it could be.

Of course, YMMV, but yes, size DOES matter, along with ability to use it.

[This message edited by Hope2B at 2:38 PM, January 3rd (Friday)]

I'm sorry, but size does matter for me. It's not the most important thing, but there is such a thing as too big and too small for me.

Yes, as I said, for some women it does matter, but sorry you are in the minority. Not discounting you, but you are in the minority.

I have a had a wide range of penis's. I actually have found that the larger, more endowed for me, was unpleasant. The smaller guys were very attentive to other areas and didn't focus so much on intercourse, which I enjoy. Most guys in my experience were average size and their skills ranged from non-existent to superb.