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Difference being that isn't you, lord. This was a wayward husband who wasn't invested in the marriage but expected the wife to want to have sex with him no matter that he didn't take care of himself and was playing X-box 14 hours a day.

We are talking about waywards, gentlemen, not you BH who we adore and know you were as hurt as we are.

eta: And the grenade my FWH would throw at me was I was a stupid bitch and shut the fuck up. Oh yeah, and nothing I did was good enough.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 8:30 AM, January 14th (Tuesday)]

You know its really sad. My WW would sit and watch tv and say, "you see if you looked like Matthew McConnehey I might actually want to make love to you". Needless to say She wasn't Jennifer Garner, all I wanted was to be loved. And no mater how much house work, help with kids, go on dates, buy me better clothes so I feel sexier, could ever gain entrance into her pants. But Jack Waggon only had to blow smoke up her ass, and he was clinically obese. Not sure my physique was the issue. Just all a terrible mental abuse game. Just saying for some the barbs from the briar patch are still being picked out 1 by 1.

It is sad, lord. And, that was a very special kind of fucked up of your WW to say that shit. (((lord))) But, again, remember this isn't WW's talking shit about their BH's. This is BW's talking about their WH's. This isn't about BH's.

Difference being that isn't you, lord. This was a wayward husband who wasn't invested in the marriage but expected the wife to want to have sex with him no matter that he didn't take care of himself and was playing X-box 14 hours a day.

The problem with this is that it can be a very gray area.

These are the types of grenade's my WW would lob at me..... I think this is where these BH are coming from. If you live in a sexless marriage where these types of grenades are lobbed at you as reasons your spouse will not have sex with you ..........

And even more so, there is just enough truth to the statement that you can’t discount it.

Not my situation but:

Not sure why I wasn't turned on by him packing on over 30 pounds and leveling up in Assassin's Creed after 14 hours of playing it on his days off.

Yes, I may have put on a couple pounds and I do play Assassin’s Creed (when there are more productive things I could be doing). So you stop playing Assassin’s Creed and start to work out, then you’re spending, too much time at the gym...

Jesu -

You have a PM.

I get you sister, I understand your point just shining a light on what I believe he was saying. For me these conversations trigger memories of the abuse. So I generally stay away from them. The general forum is a place to vent, I get it and treat it as such. Others have a difficult time separating, for some they perceive the same things being vocalized as a rail against men, Wayward or not.

Thanks, lord. I imagine that some BH's were triggered by this thread and projecting their feelings onto it.

FWIW, I think if any BW had a husband like you or nomoreplease, they would be screwing their brains out!

I was not in a sexless marriage...but our marriage did tend to run rather streaky in that area. We'd have a week or two or three where we'd run really hot a couple times each week, followed by a month or so where we'd have sex like once. I never thought too much of it, I just figured that in marriages this stuff was cyclical.

Someone said upthread that they thought that Jesu was looking for something to be mad about..I don't necessarily disagree with that. I think he may be confusing the "my WH" comments/vents as an attack on all men, which is not what I got out of it. I don't find this site to be anti-men, whatever that means.

That being said, as a man I can tell you there are some larger societal themes that can be irritating that some of us may be bringing with us into this discussion. I read a few posts upthread that invoked the tired "well maybe if he'd done some chores, I'd be more likely to put out" trope. That's hardly specific to this site (or relationship sites in general)...hell, I can probably crack open a GQ right now and find a paragraph on 'how to get her engine revving' or something silly-sounding like that. As guys, we get absolutely hammered with the idea that it's our job to 'get her in the mood' or 'get her juices going' or however you want to phrase it. Maybe this sword swings both ways, but I don't see it nearly as often....I mean, think for a moment on every time you've ever seen a guy not 'get it up' for sex in a film or TV show...it's always "this has never happened before, I swear"....annnnnnnd cue the jokes. You know what is never mentioned? "Maybe she's not doing enough to get him hard?"

My question, I guess, is this: Isn't that manipulation? I mean, if it comes to the point where I have to jump through hoops to get sex, I'm going to stick to masturbation. I think, in the broader cultural sense, that if a woman asks a guy to do X, Y, or Z so that she can be more relaxed and in the mood, its largely pegged as SOP by both genders....but if a guy attaches his own hoops, a great many times he'd be pegged as abusive for withholding sex. I can almost guarantee that if a great many dudes out there said, "You know what? I don't really feel *in the mood* unless my wife changes the oil on my Nissan first.", we'd be looked at like we had two heads.

[This message edited by FacePunched at 9:19 AM, January 14th (Tuesday)]

FWIW, I think if any BW had a husband like you or nomoreplease, they would be screwing their brains out!

Oh, if only that were true....

Double post

[This message edited by whoknows at 10:52 AM, January 14th (Tuesday)]

I don't think having or not havingbsex in a marriage is the issue. The issue is: can a person remain committed in the marriage.

My husband and I have not had sex for four years. We do not have intercourse nor any type of sex for me. He gets handjobs. The reason for this is because my husband is impotent due to health reason. And even with handjobs sometimes it cant happen due to his inability to get an erection.

Sadly, and I am jot sure if this is a "man " thing but he will constnlantly try to hump me. Like he wants to prove something to himslef. I have finally told him that I Ak perfectly fine with no sexton and no attempts at sex as it is too frustrating. He gets all mad when he cant get it up.

Now though I would love to have sex (I am only 42) I realize it isn't going to happen. I am ok with that. I have no desire to find it outside of my marriage.

Now, I am not so sure about my husband. I often feel that the adulterer is the weak person in the marriage. When the going gets tough then the adulterer gets looking to. someone else because on what HE or SHE THINKS is needed. From my husbands actions now I wouldn't be surprised if he did something outside of our marriage. Sure I would be hurt but not surprised be I already know he is the weak one in our marriage. I have already decided that should that happen, I will leave...it is the deal breaker. But I think for this reason my husband most likely will not do anything because he is now realizing that in the condition he is now, he s not a prize to be won

So back to the topic of sexless marriages. If that were a true reason for infidelity, I would have cheated four years ago. I choose not to be an adulterer.

Sorry for the typos.

Thank you Facepunched and nomoreplease for articulating where I was coming from. In my one pithy post, I was just merely making a call for intellectual honesty.

I was just merely making a call for intellectual honesty.

*sigh* What do you mean by this, MC?

Face Punched, that is a great post and I agree, for the most part. Foreplay for a lot of women is different than foreplay for a lot of men, though, in general. Does it get your engine revving when your wife changes your oil for you, Face Punched? If so, then I would probably incorporate that into my seduction/lovemaking repertoire if that is what got my FWH turned on.

However, that isn't what this thread was about. I feel that some of the BH's are taking this personally as a generalized "men" thing when it is a WS (WW and WH) thing. That the WS would claim to their AP's that their marriage was sexless, when in fact, most of the times it wasn't. And, oftentimes if it was, it was the WS that was doing the withholding.

Facepunched - With respect,I think you're taking this far too personally.

I read a few posts upthread that invoked the tired "well maybe if he'd done some chores, I'd be more likely to put out"

. I think you might be missing the point, certainly as far as I'm concerned. This came up in MC sessions, when fWH said he used to "frequently do the washing up". He also completely missed the point. Nobody's counting how many times anybody's washed up, hung out the washing or whatever. It's how invested your partner is in everyday life, how much time they willingly spend with you and your kids, whether they ever notice things around them without it being pointed out to them in capital letters. Whether they have an emotional as well as physical connection with you.

Oh, and as far as changing the oil in the car goes, I'm far more likely to do that and other car repairs than H. Being a voluntary SAHM whilst my kids were small, I was also chief builder, decorator, drain clearer, gardener and anything else that needing doing.

Strangely, had a conversation with the boiler repair man yesterday on the same lines, that I am and always will be a feminist, but I sometimes feel that women still feel the 'dirty work' is men's work. And that's a shame, it doesn't do anybody any good.

So back to the topic - we don't all consider it to be the 'man's job' to instigate sex. And it's not a question of 'you do xxxx chores and we can have sex. To me, it's more a question of we've had a good day, done things together, on the same wavelength and I'd really like to put the icing on the cake and have some fun together in bed. Please don't assume all men, or all women, only think in a stereotypical way.

sorry for the t/j

My mom and my aunt used to get into these discussions about their respective husbands. It would turn into this marathon of jokes and stories about their experiences. They both talked...actually they made fun of their husbands and their perceived flaws. If you listened you had to wonder how they possible stayed with these men. The conversations often degenerated into complaints about men in general.

How do I know about these discussion? Because they would freakin'' have them with me sitting at the table. I was much younger, a kid really. Yet I had to wonder what this meant for me. I mean I was a man (or at least going to be one).

With some years behind me I know that they did not think/feel necessarily that way about all men, but it was their men...who were in fact WH's themselves (and yes, that includes my own dad). If I had confronted them I am 100% positive they would be shocked I was ever bothered because they would (and I believe did) assume that I knew it wasn''t aimed at me even though it felt very close to home.

Whenever I read BW''s post here sometimes the discussions can seem to be about men in general. I remind myself that it isn''t. It comes from a place of frustration and assuming we BH''s who are "sitting at the table" know that what is being said does not apply to us or men like us.

Conversely I''ve wondered if the BW''s read a triggered BH''s post and wonder "He doesn''t think all women are like that, does he?"

end t/j

[This message edited by Brandon808 at 11:40 AM, January 14th, 2014 (Tuesday)]

I feel that some of the BH's are taking this personally as a generalized "men" thing when it is a WS (WW and WH) thing.

I haven’t taken any of the posts on here personally, I’m just trying to clarify where people are coming from. Part of where I feel the disconnect is coming is that while I have the BH title, I don’t draw the distinction between betrayed and wayward in this context. Just because someone has the betrayed title, doesn’t mean they are not justifying not having sex with wayward thought processes (again not saying that is anyone in this thread).

I think, in the broader cultural sense, that if a woman asks a guy to do X, Y, or Z so that she can be more relaxed and in the mood, its largely pegged as SOP by both genders....but if a guy attaches his own hoops, a great many times he'd be pegged as abusive for withholding sex. I can almost guarantee that if a great many dudes out there said, "You know what? I don't really feel *in the mood* unless my wife changes the oil on my Nissan first.", we'd be looked at like we had two heads.

Very well said, FP.

@Brandon ~ excellent! I read the BM (?) thread often. Many times I literally cringe when they speak of women, but they are speaking of WW's and most of the time, their WW. Yes, you have to realize that you are "just sitting at the table".

lordhasaplan

Since you quoted what I had to say about my WBF I think I should fill you in on some of the particulars. I NEVER complained about his weight gain. I said NOTHING regarding him playing video games all day on his days off except that losing put him in a bad mood and maybe he should take a break if playing them was going to piss him off. Two times he went to the doctor's for anal bleeding and was told to eat a vegetable once in a while and I BEGGED him to do that because I was concerned about his health. A friend of mine had gotten a pace maker and was our age (at the time 37) and I was at that point VERY concerned about his health considering he was a PI and sat in a van for 12 hours a day and never worked out. I said NOTHING when he would have money and vacation time to go on golf trips with his guy friends but never had any to take me anywhere including dinner. He had depression and we were both in school for our Masters degrees so I just let him do things that seem to make him happy. I am and have been in the fitness industry for over 25 years, have my own business and am the most certified instructor/trainer in my state. Exercise and diet greatly affect peoples' moods and the way they feel about themselves in addition to their physical health and quality of life. I encouraged him constantly (at his request) - we did mud runs together, I paid for a gym membership for him, we both bought DVDs for home which he would start and stop constantly, I bought equipment for home, there was never bad food in the house (I had no idea the money he was spending on fast food every day) etc. It is a passion of mine and I am good at helping people reach fitness goals. I NEVER put him down. I even gave him my website to design and told him he could now use me as a reference when going for jobs after he finished his masters. I believed in him and did everything to support him. Even my friends and family would buy him things and forward his resume to contacts of theirs to help with his job hunting so he could get out of the van.

At the time he was planning a 4 day fuckfest with his married cousin in another state, I was asking to go to Niagara Falls to try to work on us. The day before he left to see her, I was begging him to get help for his depression because I wanted him to live and was so scared he would have a heart attack. The next day he fucked her 3 times.

Bitter? Seriously? I'm angry beyond words so yeah at this point, I'm going to express the fact that he was 30+ pounds overweight and played video games all day on his days off and neglected the shit out of me and the house and our relationship. I'm going to let everything I've been holding in out and I have every right too. Him being 30+ pounds overweight is a big issue and not because I found him physically unattractive at that point but because of what all of his behaviors said about him which was that he doesn't even care about himself, how the hell can he care about me? It screamed he's quit on himself and on life and on us and on me. It screamed he needs help but he won't take it when offered or seek it out on his own. ANAL BLEEDING - MULTIPLE TIMES and he didn't care. I was SCARED.

I realize my surface comment about him being overweight and playing video games all day didn't spell out the underlying issues I had in my head but this was about my WBF, not men in general, not you, not Jesu. This is what him being obese and playing video games all day said to me - I DON'T CARE so again, I should find that attractive? And again, I was trying to rekindle us when he spent $1500 to fuck his cousin.

Sorry if this is all over the place and if this is considered thread jacking. I'm staring at the anniversary of them screwing for the first time today and considering he's been breaking promises left and right lately, shoving me, smacking my hand and discussing our relationship with self proclaimed cheating women, I'm a little testy over someone who doesn't know anything about my situation taking one comment of mine and turning me into a "bitter" woman.

Several of the BHs here lived in sexless/almost sexless M for years because of these same excuses, and not because it was true, but because nothing they did would’ve ever have been enough. And in fact, these BH’s were/are way over achieving in their M. When you’ve been rejected enough and nothing you can do was ever enough for long enough then those statements can become huge triggers.

I would say I was in this situation. I would say I was in a sexless M, by my xWW’s choice because she ‘didn’t want to’. And, no matter what I did I couldn’t change that. OTOH, all OM had to do was tell her how good she was at her job and she would drop her pants.

I’m not saying the same is true for all the BW’s on here, but can see why these BH’s would have issues with the W’s saying this.

Thank you so much for taking the time to understand, nomoreplease. Very well said.

Jesu, pot meet kettle.

I feel you are the one who is "hateful" towards women, imo. I have noticed you going into threads to specifically say something about the women disrespecting men. All prickly and looking to be offended.

BW are betrayed by WH. I usually speak of only my experiences with my WH (as I did on this thread) not about men in general. What, am I supposed to be happy that my FWH told me to "Shut the fuck up!" and then want sex with me 15 minutes later? I didn't say "men" do that, I said my WH did that.

I have said negative things about someone else's WH, not a BH. But, again, it was that specific WH, not MEN!

Yes, I have seen threads here that someone started making a generalized statement about men. Those are usually pretty quickly red flagged by a Mod. Or, a member will point it out, oftentimes a female.

If you want to visit here and be all thin skinned and look for posts to be offended by, I am sure you will be able to find it.

Attacking BW's who aren't "man haters" because you are hurting isn't very becoming or helpful to anyone. It is rude and offensive, actually.

No I am not hateful, not prickly, not looking to get offended, not thin skinned, not rude, and not offensive.

Thank you for your concern though.