SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I wish we had actually talked before.

So simple, yet so very hard!

The last 10 years-pretty much-yes. My DDay was 4 years ago and it has been sexless for sure since then. I just can't seem to get all worked up for him after what he has done. My fwh has been cheating on me for almost 37years and many of those years were not sexless for us, but the last 10 -no sex. I thought he wasn't interested anymore, we weren't getting along very much. I at times couldn't stand the sight of him especially when he was angry-which was all the time. He never initiated sex because he couldn't perform with me.

Now that he is in treatment for SA and seeing IC, group therapy and we are in MC he is feeling better about himself and wants us to "move forward". We've talked about intimacy in MC but I'm just not ready for that. The thought just turns my stomach. All I see is 37 years of effing other women. I also think that I am not ready to let my guard down and give 100% of myself just to get kicked in the gut again.

I feel that if he can wait and see, fine but if not, let me know now because I will not be forced into something I'm not ready for.

He's done pretty much what he has wanted for 37yrs and now it's my turn. There is no quick fix for what he has done.

My WH was claiming sexless and we had sex 2-3x a week when he embarked on his A.

Yes, I was. Well he was having sex…just not with me. At first it was porn and then it was with a porn star lookalike (that is all I can do to describe her…she looks like she should be a porn star. Heavy makeup, hair extensions, dancer's body, spray tan).

The sexless thing started soon after we married. He just did not seem interested in it. He wasn't that great at it, either, never that interested in my pleasure…just his. So it wasnt like I wanted it from him. I just ignored it. I honestly can't remember feeling like it ever bothered me. We had sex to have our kids that was about it. Then after we had our kids…nothing. I tried to bring it up a few times…I got nowhere. He was not up for talking about it. I had NO idea he was looking at porn to the extent that he must have. I did find some porn on his phone and asked him to be more careful because we have kids. Had I been better informed, I would have known that porn contributes to ED and intimacy disorders. I made up a lot of excuses as to why we did not have sex - stress from work, financial pressures, etc. I filled in a lot of the blanks. Then he was really checked out of the marriage, wanting to go out with his friends (or so I thought). Finally for some reason I woke up from my stupor, decided I could not live like this for another 30 years and I asked him why we weren't having sex and by the way, who is Jane Doe (AP)? Well, wouldn't you know…cliche time...Jane Doe is just "a friend" and we aren't having sex because he thinks I am fat and unattractive, I've let myself go, blah blah blah. Of course that has nothing to do with the fact that he has been checked out of the relationship on some level for the entire length of the marriage.

Yes, the sexless marriage does really exist. And it is not always because both people want it that way. Usually it is one sided.

What a contentious topic! I do believe that its roots, are communication and that nasty puritan anti-sex tradition. At least in my marriage.

We didn't start that way. But the minute I tried to encourage a bit of innovative, nothing crazy, just expressed my needs, I was shot down, mocked, and made to feel like a selfish slut. I stopped talking, but didn't stop planning for romantic nights, not frequently, but busy schedules, two often-sick children, required some fancy foot work on my part. He later told a MC that he didn't remember those Friday night dates. They went on for several years with few misses.

As the acting out commenced, (I didn't know about it at the time) his attitude toward me changed dramatically. I could do nothing right. Oh, he'd come home (hours late) and grind against me while I was juggling dinner, homework for two kids and my own papers to grade and plans to write and be pissed that I didn't respond immediately. Then he'd disappear to his "office" for a pornfest. I now was pissed, not because of the porn, I thought he was "working" but because I was left to do all the childcare and everything else. His bedtime was 2-3 AM. Or later. Sex was SO infrequent, and eventually, he couldn't finish, a form of ED, later he couldn't even start as the porn use continued, the strip clubs visits accelerated, and the other relationships started. I begged him to see a doctor, why are we not having a normal sex life? He talked, reluctantly about medications, AD, blood pressure, and mentioned that maybe I would have to be content with no sex life due to medical reasons. Hah. I had no sex life. He was having a party.

Briefly, VERY briefly we had this wonderful interlude. He got a job he ADORED. He thought he was a god. It required a long commute, so, once again, I was the one man band, but he treated me like a queen. Our sex life was wonderful. I felt loved, sexy, beautiful... Then he got fired and things were back to normal.

I pleaded with him. "What is going on? Why aren't we having a normal life? It clearly ISN'T the medication!". His answer, "your body DISGUSTS me!"

Okay. I do have to say that I was 5' 100 lbs and a regular gym goer. But two kids, stretch marks and 45.

So, that doesn't inspire me to jump into bed. But, I'm nota quitter. I continue to try. I succeed once in a blue moon. Mostly I fail. Sexy lingerie modeling results in him asking me to move because I'm blocking the TV. I do manage to trick him into it when he's half asleep once or twice.

But, of course by now he's having a PA with someone. He throw she under the bus, takes up with another OW, and we are back on the SK is ugly, fat, and stupid round of the game. No real HB. When I finally got the truth several years after the end of the PAs, I asked him why he would do that to me. "Because I needed a REAL woman! Not YOU!" When I sobbed that he always had told me I was "amazing" he snarled, "haven't you ever heard of positive reinforcement? I was hoping maybe you'd LEARN something!"

I was STILL willing to give him a chance. Maybe he was a changed person, maybe all that nastiness was just, well, whatever. I tried to initiate in a very romantic place, Hawaii, a dream vacation. He pulled away, "you always pick the WRONG times!" I'm not sure how I got that wrong. Moonlight shining in our stateroom, lovely dinner just before, a few glasses of wine, not too many, dancing, etc. I must REALLY not know what I'm doing..

Our last, and probably final attempt was two years ago. Once again, I booked us into a lovely place, dinner, a show, as we were messing around, he suddenly pulled away in disgust and told me he wasn't into necrophila. I, apparently wasn't writhing like a porn star, although from my angle I was enjoying myself. I'm not about to risk the humiliation again. Would you?

As a previous poster said,I don't care if he likes it or not. It's not the way I wanted my marriage to be, but I surely didn't want to be cheated out of a real sex life for 25 years and that's what I got. I think he owes it to me to live by my rules for a change, I was forced to live by his, given an std and had my entire marriage prove to be a sham. I've earned the right to protect myself as long as and in whatever way I need.

Sexless? I would say we have gone through periods of time in my marriage being sexless. But sexless forever...celibacy? Well....almost. I'll be the first to admit that I haven't always been the greatest husband and I continue to work at it. I have a lot to say on this subject, so forgive me if I'm a bit verbose and long winded. This is what happened in my marriage.

When we first moved in together it was many times a week. Not every day, but plenty. Then it started to taper off to the "normal" three to four times a week which was long enough to prevent my rejection cycle to kick in except for one week a month. My W doesn't have a sex drive like mine and I've accepted that. Not many people do. In the past there have been times where she was not in the mood, not feeling well, or if we scheduled it for a night and then she wasn't in the mood, I would take it as a rejection. I explain why I have this rejection cycle in my story in my profile. This was my issue. Not W's. I took the rejection as she didn't love me. Which lead me to resenting her for it. Which lead to me getting angry about it. Which lead to me being sad about it. Then keep cycling through these emotions until we finally do have sex. I try to say nothing about it and internalize it because deep down I know my thinking is super flawed and it's not her, it's all me. This is a common theme for me throughout my entire marriage and I try and keep it away from her. It's NOT her problem. It's MINE.

Throughout our marriage sex became less and less frequent. After our third child our sex life barely had a pulse. I could count on two hands how many times we had sex that year. My wife was having sex with me out of obligation because "it's what married people are supposed to do." I'm cycling like crazy through my rejection cycle every minute of the day. I'm having a hard time comprehending how we went from sex all the time at the beginning of our relationship to almost never. I know that a good portion of our sex life took a serious blow because of W's medical conditions. She went into peri menopause and has all sorts of uterus complications after child #3 was born. She's had to have a few procedures done since 2010 and she now discussing a hysterectomy. Throw in endometriosis and she's not doing well at all. I love my wife. I have a heart and can see that she's having major issues. So I say nothing about wanting to have sex, internalize it, and go through my rejection cycle constantly. I point to the calendar and say we haven't had sex in six weeks, tow months or whatever, and she gets pissed. She knows. I don't have to hit her over the head with it. Our sex life goes down to barely having a pulse. I'm thinking my wife hates me at this point and our relationship begins to die. As far as parenting, being best friends all the other stuff outside the relationship we were on the same page and were fantastic together. People would never know looking at us that we had this not existent relationship anymore.

We have sex once in Jan 2013. Flip the calendar to Feb 2013 and our sex life dies. Completely. All other things in our life running on all cylinders. Everything else between us is perfect. Focused on everything but our relationship. W is still having major uterus issues, has had two procedures done and is still bleeding a lot and I console her about it. But we don't talk about the elephant in the room. Almost all of March goes by without any sex and I start to think to myself I'm going to be celibate for the rest of my life. I figure if we don't have sex by April 1, I'm going to be celibate forever. April 1 comes and goes. So in order to not go through that vicious cycle anymore in my head I kill it. No more sex no matter what. My rationale being that if sex is off the table I can't be rejected anymore. I can stop the hurt. So that's what I do.

The cycle does stop for me and is replaced by something else. A deep sadness. I go into mourning for our sex life. It's gone and I'm going to be celibate. But I would rather have one emotion about it than spin out of control with the others. I'm 39 years old and it's all about me and my dead sex life in my head. I lost 5 people I was close to including my brother in a 2 year time period so I knew that the mourning would subside eventually, and it did over the next few months. Funny though, my W comes to me shortly after the first week of last April and initiates sex. I turn her down. In fact I turn her down 2 more times during that week. Now she knows something is wrong as I have NEVER turned down sex my entire life. But she doesn't want to talk about it and I don't want to talk about it. Everything else is running great so why and rock the boat? Eventually the sadness of our sex life starts to diminish in my head and I start to be ok with it. I really truly accepted it.

Fast forward to end of June 2013. We have not had sex now for a full five + months. I'm going to be turning 40 in Oct and I start to look at my life. I look at it and I'm not happy. I see this wasteland of dead people and relationships. My parent's dead marriage, my dead brother, all this damage over the years. I'm a guy. I need to fix things. That's what we do. Most of it I can't do much about, but maybe I could resuscitate my relationship with W? I really want to and the fact that our sex life is gone is sad. I start to think about it for a solid week non stop.

What's going wrong? I ask her for sex. She says no. I feel rejected. Rejection to resentment. Resentment to anger. Anger to sadness. Repeat. I actually figured that out about myself that week in June. Ok this is on me. What next? How do I make her feel? Not sure. I throw the calendar at her and say it's been six weeks. Hmmm... I'm guessing that's a problem. What's next. Do I try and make her feel good about herself? Ummm....nope. I throw a calendar at her and expect sex. I already got her all those years ago why do I need to pursue her? All the other girls before I met W would just give sex whenever I wanted. OH SHIT!!! Look at his paragraph. All of the reasons are me. I'm the bad guy not her. I've been a shit and expected it because I always got it whenever I wanted it prior to our marriage. I haven't treated her right in this area at all. How can I fix this?!?! If you've seen my background you will understand this question I ask myself. What would my mom do? Go fuck someone else and not communicate so I'm going to do the opposite. I'm going to go and talk to her but how do I approach her? I'm really scared.

I want to take time out here and stress something. Looking back through all of the above it NEVER occurred to me in any of my thoughts to go after someone else. Never once to have an affair of any kind. Not once even for a second did I have that thought. I'm not looking for a f'n medal here or pretending to be some sort of hero. I'm not. My "formation" from my youth is what shaped me. If I came from a toxic environment, I was not going to allow any of that type of thinking to creep in. Not even for a split second. I have a family and can't go there.

Back to how do I approach my wife? That's the tough part. I forget exactly how it happened. We were in the bathroom getting ready for work one morning and I forget what she said but I made a comment about something regarding the no sex elephant in the room and we agreed to talk later that night. We then had a series of discussions around that time and ended up having passionate sex at the end of June to break a five + month drought. But the drought wasn't totally over and has even returned once recently. We had some serious issues to work through together but the point was we were communicating. During this time we realized that due to her female issues we had to find other ways of having sex together. Even if it wasn't conventional sex (crazy how much fun you can have nowadays if you keep an open mind about it). Previously over the years we had developed a pattern of having sex just out of laziness. We would watch a little bit of porn to get us warmed up (always me putting it on of course), then we would have a set guide of what and how we would have sex. We both recognized that we have to get over our pattern, try new things, kick down inhibitions, and more than ever communicate with each other. This has not been easy. Seems almost impossible at times. Sometimes things have been out of this world great, other times it feels like we are back at the beginning (even though we know we are not).

We continue to struggle. We continue to work at it. She has been working through her issues both physically and mentally. I continue to work on myself and my issues which is why I'm here on SI. We do it all together.

Sexless marriage? Hardly. Sexless at times. Certainly.

PS. My lady friends get a kick out of this. I refer to the old me as Mr. Calendar Guy. That guy that comes in and hits you over the head with the calendar and expects you to throw yourself in the bed and spread em. Guilty as charged. I have consciously kicked him to the curb. Ahhh...Mr Calendar Guy. Pitiful. Good riddance.

yop (formerly MCG)

According to WH, he told OW we were like "relatives" however, that was far from the truth. We had cycles like any couple.

It wasn't sexless. The A happened during a down cycle. Which still wasn't sexless, just less frequent.

Just a bit of info: I'm early 30's, as is the wife. Married over 10 years. She had a "got drunk and kissed a guy" (and then some emotionally, but not sexually, inappropriate emails over the next couple of weeks) issue a couple of years ago that we've since moved past. We really have a great relationship and are very close.

I can really relate to the "cycle" yearsofpain mentions. It's completely that way for me.

I wouldn't define our marriage as sexless, but it's not far off. Good months might mean 3 or 4 times. Normal is 1 or 2 times a month. I can't remember a time in the last 5 years where there's been any frequency approaching a once a week average, and in the more than 10 years we've been married, I don't think it's ever been that frequent for more than a month or two.

For me, it's a big issue and always has been. I don't need sex every day, but would be ecstatic with twice a week. My wife is generally not a physically affectionate person, though, so it's nowhere near the top of her priority list. She loves me, and likes being the recipient of some affection, but generally doesn't dish out much other than hugs or a peck on the cheek. Yep... We don't even kiss often. She's mentioned in the past about it seeming awkward. And, I completely agree. The reason it's awkward for me is that I'm always waiting for the rejection that inevitably comes when I initiate. She's expressed a desire in the past for me to "take" her... but when I get my advances rejected or there's no positive response (no "that feels good" or her moving closer to me), I'm not going to force myself on her. That's not the kind of thing that turns me on in the least.

I wish there was something I could point to as being "wrong", but I can't. We have 2 kids (elementary age), so that obviously adds some stress. She doesn't work outside the home, but home schools the kids and volunteers. I don't work long hours, and don't travel. We spend a lot of quality time together, and both have a shared hobby and other activities that keep us together a lot. We get along very well, and don't really have fights. She's very physically fit and I'm very, very attracted to her. I'm affectionate with her, and make sure she knows it with my words and actions. I'm not a short-tempered person, so I very rarely even raise my voice at her, let alone say mean things to her. I try to be continually kind and praising. I am not perfect, by any stretch, but I try to treat her well. She does most of the housework since she stays at home, but I help out with parts and take care of the guy things like maintenance. I'm in good shape, and take care of myself. I work out every day, try to look nice, etc.

I've resigned myself, at this point, that there's nothing I can really do about it. It's not related to something I do or don't do, or something I can control. I've talked with her about it, and I get different responses: anger (that's all you care about), dismissal (I'm just not in the mood or it's just not important to me), slight agreement (yeah, I know), or silence. I've decided to not bring it up anymore because I'll either not like the response (anger or the "ugh, that's the last thing I want to do right now" response), or nothing will be accomplished. I've expressed to her that it's a need I would like met, and she chooses not to. And that is probably what sucks the most to me. I'd really just love to have my wife be physically interested in me, desire me, be affectionate, respond to my advances, etc.

Ultimately, I won't leave her for it. The rest of our marriage is very, very good. And, I've got two kids with her and I don't think it's an issue worthy of divorce, even though it really does suck. It's part of accepting her for who she is and loving her without regard to what I get out of the deal.

I've never cheated and make sure I don't give my wife a reason to doubt me. She's not cheating... I'm sure of that. But the general lack of physical affection is what made her little thing with the other guy so hard on me. She doesn't even act that way with me, why with him?

I'm afraid to know the real reason. Both options seem depressing: she's not into me "that way" (ouch), or she's not driven "that way" (it won't get better).

Are there other possibilities? What am I missing? What causes the physical withdrawal? Could hormone issues be at play? Am I just the nice guy who loses out?

He told people we were only having sex once a month. In reality it was once a week on average, sometimes more.

Hey RunGuy

I've never cheated and make sure I don't give my wife a reason to doubt me. She's not cheating... I'm sure of that. But the general lack of physical affection is what made her little thing with the other guy so hard on me. She doesn't even act that way with me, why with him?

I'm afraid to know the real reason. Both options seem depressing: she's not into me "that way" (ouch), or she's not driven "that way" (it won't get better).

Have you spoken to your wife about this? You need to get this out on the table with her. I know you are scared of the answer, but getting the truth, which ever truth it may be, will set you free. You can then address it with her as a couple. One of the scariest things I've ever had to do was talk to my wife about problems in our relationship. But so worth it once we got through our issues. My wife sounds exactly like yours in many ways (minus the little thing with the other guy), but once we addressed everything and worked on it as a couple, we had many more connections and she opened up to me physically as well as mentally. It's getting those connections which may be why she opened up to OM (whether it was a "real" connection or not)? Talk with your wife. Address these thoughts and feelings. Establish connections on many levels with her. Before you know it you may end up having a night like I did last night where I was attacked.

Give it a shot. She is your wife after all.

At Dday, we were actually in the midst of the best sex life of our entire marriage. We were having sex 3,4 times a week. Occasionally more than once a day! It was literally a dream come true for me. A couple of years ago we were having no sex. Maybe once every 6-7 weeks! I've now discovered he was deep into porn (which he's yet to admit, but his credit card confirm it!). I was begging for attention and affection (& sex) and got rejected regularly.

But as soon as things turned around, literally overnight, bam..... I catch him with a hooker!

My gut (and a few pieces of intel) say he's been with one before, probably why our sex life was non-existent, in addition to all the porn.

I don't believe in sexless marriages.

My ex told me that he and OW had spoken about us not having had much sex.

We were too scared to have sex during my pregnancy with DD from me nearly miscarrying DS after we had sex one night. And then the following months after DD was born, and me having to wear a catheter due to bladder problems from my pregnancy, kinda killed sex for a bit.

Oh but poor xWS, I am such a mean bitch to not perform for him.

This kind of shit really makes my blood boil.

I hope he's happy wanking every night in his shitty flat with his shitty existence.

Duplicate!

[This message edited by SpotlessMind at 5:46 PM, February 5th (Wednesday)]

I think posters in this thread need to take a deep breath and realize that everyone has triggers...and sometimes, your trigger might even be in exact opposition to another poster's trigger.

For example, I personally triggered when I read a post that seemed to suggest men should get sex just because, and if they don't, they are being mistreated--because my husband cited his main reason for cheating as lack of sex. But I also realize this is a particular sensitivity of mine, whereas the poster was commenting from a place of his own sensitivity.

The thing I've read and come to believe is---people are different. Many women (and some men) require feeling a connection and emotional intimacy PRIOR to having sex--which they get through spending time together, talking, etc.. Many men (and some women) need sex to feel a connection PRIOR to expressing emotional intimacy via talking, spending time, etc.

See the Catch 22?

Basically, it takes BOTH partners needs being met to have a healthy sex life. True story. Like most of marriage, it's a 50-50 responsibility. So if you are blaming your spouse for a lack of sex, or vice versa, it probably means your communication sucks. (Note: obviously there are exceptions to the rule, but I think the above holds true much of the time. This does NOT apply once one partner is having an affair. At that point, there is only one person "in" the marriage, and IMO any lack of sex falls directly on that spouse's shoulders.)

We did not have sex enough pre-A, and I was the one refusing. I own that.

We did not have sex enough pre-A, and WH did not work to give me the connection/time I needed to feel okay having sex. He owns that.

Any spouse blaming "sexless marriage" for their A is blame shifting. Period. It might have contributed to a rocky marriage, but only the WS's bad choice is to blame for the A.

I will tell you when WH finally gave me more insight into what a big deal it was for him, I tried harder to address my libido issue. Of course, by then, he'd already had sex with three other women...a little too late. We both beat ourselves up over that.

RunGuy--

Please give The Sex-Starved Marriage a try--both you and your spouse. It's the book I wish we'd read prior to my husband's As. I think in your case it has the potential to be very beneficial.

[This message edited by SpotlessMind at 5:50 PM, February 5th (Wednesday)]

ours was not sexless-until the howorker came into the picture and then I questioned what the problem was because it did taper off or he had "performance" issues. Find out through texts after dday--howorker was the best sex ever-even better than his wife talk about a blow to the self esteem. Now ---> trigger

The thing I've read and come to believe is---people are different. Many women (and some men) require feeling a connection and emotional intimacy PRIOR to having sex--which they get through spending time together, talking, etc.. Many men (and some women) need sex to feel a connection PRIOR to expressing emotional intimacy via talking, spending time, etc.

See the Catch 22?

Well said Spotless!!! That is the exact catch 22 that my wife and I fell into. Exactly! It took years of very little sex followed by 5 months of NO sex to figure that out. Thank god we did.

I'll look into that book The Sex-Starved Marriage. You have my attention. Thanks

[This message edited by yearsofpain25 at 6:30 PM, February 5th (Wednesday)]