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I was in the garage and looked in an old tool drawer. Found a second cell phone, an old one, inside a soap box.

It was dead. God I am shaking as I write this. This was two days ago. It is an older flip phone. I ordered an old charger for it from Amazon and just charged it.

His story has been that since first DDay of 7/2004 he had no contact with her until she contacted him in 2/2011.

This phone doesn't have much information but it shows the last number dialed as her cell phone, the first one I knew about. The date was 11/1/2009 It doesn't show anything else, no incoming, no texts, except for text message of a phone number. The number is of a woman who is sort of related who I once intercepted an inappropriate sexty joke she messaged him. She is a drunk and I ended up believing that he didn't know why she sent it. I had him call her in front of me after it was sent and....I didn't believe she was really a problem just this OW who has been in my life for the last fifteen years.

The cell shows that the total usage is over 700 hours. The number of the cell is one that I had written down at one time as one I suspected of being hers. I don't remember where I got that info from, it had to have been about ten years ago.

So, I guess my H has probably never stopped seeing her ever, at least communicating in some way over the last decade there were three people always in my marriage. ..No wonder she hasn't gone away....she has just as much time invested.

I told him on the phone just now that I had new info that was making my heart sick.

I asked him if he recognized this number and I recited the number of the phone...his phone. He says no.

I told him I am not giving him any more info, I will give info to his psych who is apparently not seeing this week.

The only other info I can get from the phone is usage minutes....it says about 750 hours. But the sim card seems to say Sim card 0 used 250 left. don't know what that means. It says also Phone 0 used 255 left don't knwo what that means either. Does the 750 means how many hours that number was used or what? I can't do math right now it won't compute.

So heartsick.

So not ready to do battle with a confrontation.

Don't know what to do.

What do I do now?

UGH. I am afraid that I will, too, find something like this. I feel you. Um, I don't know the answers to your questions about the sim cards. Google it. You can always take the phone and sim card to a tech guy and see what he can retrieve from it.

You never got the whole truth from WH.

You deserve the whole truth! Why don't they understand this? Don't let him get his hands on that phone. Hide it for the time being. Just until you can get more info out of it. So sorry you have to deal with this again.

Thanks SiNC,

I feel like a keg of dynamite is going to blow up in my face. I don't expect any truths but a lot of anger and yelling and ultimatums...from him.... On the phone he said something like....you can either do things to make us good and get on the right track or you can be destructive. I said, I have never done anything that has been destructive to us. That's you.

Don't know if I should insist he move out tonight. I would need to enlist help from people to make him do that. I so don't want to go all drama on all my peoples again.

Feel Siberia in my heart, just continue to shake.

Hey. If it is a pay as you go phone. I think (don't bank) that the 750 is about how many hours it was used. But that can be reset on most phones. Also the 0 used and 255or 250 left sounds like it could be credits were loaded and not used. Credits are used for txt and minutes. Each carrier has their own rules. A techie will have more answers on that. Also may be able to pull data from a latent or hidden file. (Like the trash can on a PC). You may also be able to pull old bill usage depending on the carrier. You have to contact the carrier to find that out.

I feel bad for you. But to souls like he is blameshifting and rug sweeping. You have some tough decisions ahead.

Sending you hugs....

Thanks for the thoughts.

Where would one find this techie of which you speak?

Would I take it to a PI and they would know?

Kinda clueless.

What will you get out of a confrontation tonight? Lies? Blame shifting? Emotional abuse? He's already started that on the phone with you.

I think you are right and it is highly likely the affair never stopped. You've lived a lie a long time. What do you want?

[This message edited by mainlyinpain at 4:55 PM, February 20th (Thursday)]

I really don't want a confrontation tonight. I don't know what is left though. Pretend I don't have this information? And act like what? Do I make dinner?? I so don't want to be an angry, hurt person anymore. Do I just be civil to him and deflect if he tries to engage? This is a guy I love I think. I think he loves me back to what extent I don't know. I know he is in IC for the first time I think facing issues...he resists and hates it but he is facing some FOO and npd tendency issues. He keeps saying how he is trying to get back to being the man he was twenty years ago...before A...

He seeems to think though that he can do that while still bringing a bag full of lies with him. I don't know how to get him to see that won't work. He works so hard all the time to not get blamed or criticized and to have people tell him he is great. This in a nutshell is his life and his problem. I don't know how to get him to understand that the truth sets you free. He has exerted so much power that he believes his own lies and I think mortally fears truth.

I do believe he loves me and wants a life with me. I don't have faith that it will not include this other psycho person but I am pretty sure that that is what he believes right now. I think he wants to forget all the lies he told about the relationship and start anew.

This would be wrong, correct? I just can't think clearly about it all anymore it is so overwhelming.

He has supposed to have made MC appts with a mc his psych recommends. the problem is he can't do the one day this person had available until end of April. So we have been limping along with a scheduled Sunday two hour talk between the two of us where I ask and he deflects but insists he has told all.

But my intuition has been tingling and the info has not added up and then I find a phone.

So at this crossroad I would go forward with him and have some faith that he is not in contact with OW and will not be but I would need him to tell the whole truth.

But how would I ever know it was?

Love can be a very confusing thing. We love those who cause us the most harm. How can that be? What do we get from that love? How can true love be used as a form of abuse? For these reasons, I often removed my love for my spouse from my decision making process. People stay with people who punch them in the face every day for "love." Not all love is healthy.

Are you willing to leave and divorce your spouse for this? If not, I don't see that he will ever change. Why would he? What would be the impetus to do so?

What I am suggesting about confrontation, is, what is the point? Gather yourself, find your focus. What do you want out of this confrontation? Him to acknowledge that he lied for all these years? To finally tell you the truth? Is that all you need? Is the truth? Or will this truth be a dealbreaker for you? If he lies and gaslights you, what will you do? He is not a safe partner for you. Sometimes we have to really look at what we are seeking: is it truth? release? or more pain?

Of those three choices I would only choose truth, I think. Or would need to know truth to be able to choose anything else. And that is it. I can't make choices, can't have belief without knowing truths. Otherwise what am I believing in? I won't know what it truly is....won't be able to feel safe against what I don't know. Why doesn't he understand this? That I can't move forward from the unknown.

I have to know who I would be moving forward with. What he has done and what really was what he says he is letting go.

Otherwise I live in fear.

I do not know if the truth is a dealbreaker until I know what it is. I think the knot that is inside me though, all the time, could untie and I would be set free.

I don't know how to get him to see that won't work. He works so hard all the time to not get blamed or criticized and to have people tell him he is great. This in a nutshell is his life and his problem. I don't know how to get him to understand that the truth sets you free. He has exerted so much power that he believes his own lies and I think mortally fears truth.

Don't mean to be harsh, but imho, you cannot get him to see anything. He will open his eyes only if/when he chooses to. I'm sorry, but it is not in your control, just as the affair is/was not in your control.

Please shift your focus onto you and what you need. Please take care of yourself.

I do not know if the truth is a dealbreaker until I know what it is.

You know what it is. He’s been lying. He was seeing her, or at least had her in his life, for a decade more than you knew. He lied when you asked him.

The truth is he is holding back.

I think you’re saying there is no dealbreaker, because if he admitted this, then you would say he’s trying. Without his admission, you are where you are now – knowing the truth but allowing him to dictate your belief with his lies.

Without a dealbreaker, the three people in your marriage will stay, for you.

If you have no dealbreaker, then you don’t. That’s ok. If you love him, and think that there is a new future, then go there. Just be aware that you’re doing so without his honesty, because it looks like he’s not willing to give that.

(((((hugs)))))

ps – 750+250 = 1,000 He probably purchased 1,000 minutes and used about 750 of them.

EDIT - This sounds very judgmental and it isn't. If you believe your WH is trying, and you are struggling to find the truth to prior items. then the prior items may not be a dealbreaker. The key is what YOU feel, and YOUR happiness. If you are happy he's moving forward, them perhaps the older items aren't dealbreakers.

That was my only point. I'm terribly sorry if it came across otherwise.

[This message edited by painfulpast at 5:56 PM, February 20th (Thursday)]

Thank you so much for helping me figure this all out.

Painful, I need candid, I used to be so methodical and linear in my thinking and now everything gets moshed up. I struggle for clarity. I know his gaslighting has messed me up, everything has messed me up and I am somewhat ptsd.

I look at everything in percentages now and I am 89% sure that he wants a life with me and intends to keep her out of it. I am now 100% sure that he withheld major information.

I think I am unable to go forward without honesty but I don't think whatever the truth is would be a deal breaker as long as it is all in the past. That is the fear....the unknown that I don't know is being brought along with us.

You know what it is. He’s been lying. He was seeing her, or at least had her in his life, for a decade more than you knew. He lied when you asked him.

I agree here. And I'm sorry, I am not trying to pile on, I know you are hurting and scared and confused.

But the reality is, you DO have the truth. You know he has a secret phone from 2009. Smack in the middle of the time he wasn't supposed to be cheating. You KNOW the truth - you do not need him to confirm and deny it for you. Does that make sense?

The bargaining stage is really hard. You want the truth to be something different. You want him to step up and be the man you think he is. But you can't make that happen. Only he can. I would urge you to read about codependency, and to practice the 180.

I am so sorry....truly, you cannot make decisions without the truth. If he fails to provide it, you know your answer. Even if he provides it, it still might be a deal breaker. But he broke it...not you!

Your situation reminds me of my own.

His past behavior may or may not be a dealbreaker for you. But what is going to completely blow this shit up is the CURRENT lying about those past behaviors.

On the phone he said something like....you can either do things to make us good and get on the right track or you can be destructive

Based on this statement.....he has NOT told you the truth about his past. And honestly, at this point in time, I would turn his words around against him. "That's right, WH. YOU can either do what is going to make us good and get us on the right track OR you can be destructive" because he is dumping this shit in your lap and making YOU the problem.

You are really focusing a lot on *him*. You talk about his FOO and NPD tendencies as his *reasons* and then go on to mention the work he's doing in IC and how he says that he wants to get back to *who* he was. One thing I read a while back that had a big impact on me (because I, too, was extremely focused on understanding *his* why's/andwhatnot's) was "who cares?" You being so *understanding* right now is just allowing him to continue to hurt you. The truth is that he is continuing to lie to you about his actions.

You canNOT build a new marriage after betrayal without full disclosure that 'wipes the slate clean.' You deserve to know the truth. NOT having the truth only results in a relationship that rests on a foundation of sand.

He says that you *know it all*? Fine. Tell him to take a polygraph.

gonnab, everything you said is true.

He has just gotten home and I don't know what I am going to say.

How do I act?

Do I say I found phone? I mean he knows the truth he doesn't need me to supply the evidence.

Such anxiety. How do I act?

Don't say anything about the phone just yet.....

Fake a headache or PMS and go to bed.

Good advice. No faking needed. Right now I am in one room with the door closed and he has not approached me.

Hopefully I can just go to bed with no interaction. Or should I say toss and turn for a few hours. Sleep and I don't know each other very well.

If you did not tell him, it might be best to talk to someone else and see if they can get anymore info from that phone.

The more info you have, the less he can deny.