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Hi Mandy,

You've already given him a second chance and he blew it...

What UKgirl suggested sounds doable and effective.

You can't "babysit" him into fidelity -- he has to choose it, just like he has to make a decision to stay sober. Those are his choices.

Boundaries are your choices. They're not always easy to make. I'm not sure if you can get a restraining order or anything like that to keep the OW from making contact, but perhaps that can help enforce what you decide.

Keep us posted on how you're doing-- we want to know you are safe.

All the best,

"i"

aloha from hawaii mandy. I read your posts and i can't imagine how much you're hurting. i feel so sad for you. I understand your determination to save your marriage especially after 20 years and 3 young children. i also imagine that after 20 years, your marriage has become a part of your identity and has shaped how you picture your future.

it seems to me that your husband has NEVER been remorseful. You have shown great faith in him by giving him so many chances to redeem himself and he has chosen not to. It seems to me that all this man cares about is himself. He never actually felt bad for his actions, he just didn't like the consequences. It seems to me that he chooses to keep contact with this woman no matter how he tries to shift the blame to the OW.

His behavior and actions shows that he has no regard for your feelings and for your marriage and family. He must know that he is sacrificing your family unit (including your children) by repeatedly continuing contact with the OW. Sorry to say that I see this as a major character flaw in him.

I also built my world around my husband. And when he abandoned me and my family while 6.5 months pregnant, it was like facing 5 deaths at once. Death of my husband, death of my best friend, death of my family as a unit, death of my life as i saw it, and death of my imagined future. And I have fears of whether I'll be alone for the rest of my life, whether anyone will ever love me again..... I'm sure you will feel all those things too if you should divorce this man.

But through his actions, i think he has shown that he doesn't love you. He only loves himself. I know that after 20 years of marriage, it must be hard to take the risk of being alone. But you know, you have love from your friends and family and your 3 children, and please remember to love yourself, as you are already complete without your husband, just might take a while to realize and remember it. I'm praying for strength for you and your children as i know whatever you choose to do, it won't be easy. From the other side of the world- : )

Hi everyone! Sorry I haven't updated you for a while I've been trying to R but things aren't going well this last week. I forgot to mention in my previous posts that the affair was actually 16 months not 4 months as I was led to believe. Well since DD on the 14th February we've been up and down like a yoyo, he's since broken NC by returning her calls every day for the whole of April, then he went 3 weeks after begging and pleading with me to give us another chance. I was completely taken in by his remorse and seen the genuine regret in his eyes. We talked endlessly and shared our feelings we grew so close and relied on each other's support. For the next 3 weeks everything was fantastic we were really happy and felt so positive then last Monday I found out they had spoken on the phone again for 36 minutes. He said he had to check she was ok as her mam is dying and she's been in hospital herself with an abcess on her arse lmfao!!! He said the chat had helped him to move on even more and confirmed what he already knew that it was me he wanted to be with and I believed him. However as the week went on my emotions took a turn for the worse I began making conspriracy theories up in my head about the call and it started eating away at me. I got so low I couldn't function again and eventually I had to tell him exactly how I felt as he was noticing something wasn't right so that was yesterday. I wrote it all in a letter asking him questions and telling him I needed emotion support and reassurance I wanted to give him the opportunity to help me if he wanted to. Things were going so well I thought this was the next move. He cried after reading it and said how sorry he was for what he was putting me through. He went to work and text and called me all night we felt so close. He didn't realise how bad breaking no contact was for me all he knew was it made him get more clarity on our future.

Cut to today and I find he's been using private browsing on his phone this morning to look at her Facebook profile so I confronted him about it. He understands it's only hurting his recovery but he says he feels such shame and guilt over the affair for both me and OW and feels compelled to see how she's doing. I must admit I check her page everyday too and see her putting photos on to wind him up like her with her ExBF and then seductive pictures of her lying in bed. Anyway he said he can't cope with what he's doing to me he can see his actions are destroying me and he can't live with it anymore and I'm better off without him and I can build myself a better life if he stops hurting me and the only way he can do that is by leaving and getting some thinking space. So I tried talking and reassuring him more but I was just banging my head against a wall. He kept saying he knows he doesn't want her, he knows she can't make him happy, he doesn't know how to be happy anymore, he can't live with what he's done! He packed a case and went to his friends house... I know he's there because the GPS is tracking him.

I felt so desperate for some closure for him today with the OW so I text her I just want her to stop this. Bearing in mind I have emailed her a very nasty email telling her to back off previously, yes I know that was stupid and wrong but it worked for a while. So texting... She replied to me saying she hasn't spoken or seen him and that they are over and she told him she forgive him for hurting her, she said she never asked him to leave me and doesn't want to break up my family. She said she's moved on and hopes he can R with me. She was very nice about the whole thing and asked if she can help at all so I asked her to write him an email telling him she's moved on, telling him not to contact her again as he's not welcome and that his responsibilities are with his family. I'm checking his emails to see if she does it but nothing yet!

He's so caught up in the fog and struggling with the affair withdrawal addiction, he knows this he's read about it online and knows his irrational thoughts are just that. He knows what he wants for us but is struggling so bad with the shame and guilt and seeing me so low he can't cope. I'm desperate to help him I love him so much! I've emailed him links to SI way wards forum asking him to read up on stuff all I can hope for now is that he does see some clarity in those pages and comes home with his tail between his legs as I can't imagine life without him here.

Any responses of support or advice would be greatly appreciated today I'm so lonely and frightened for our future! Thanks xxxxxx

[This message edited by Mandy7 at 11:46 AM, June 7th (Saturday)]

I am sorry you are going through this...but I think most here would say start the 180....

Thanks hopefull77 I did a natural 180 a while back when I couldn't cope anymore I was suicidal at that point I don't ever want to feel like that again. Maybe a 180 is what I might have to do. I'm searching for positive support to help him understand why he feels the way he does he's so confused and desperate for the fog to lift! Thanks again x

I would be looking much deeper, at computer history, at website data if he has a smart phone.etc. There seems to be addictive-sounding behavior here to me, which I admit may be my story tilting me in that direction, but he is just not a safe partner for you right now. He has had way more time than is required to "get over" his addiction to her. He needs major therapy.

I would get child support secured as soon as possible, because if he should impregnate her, or someone else, your children will be receiving financial leftovers. Please don't let this happen...see an attorney & know your rights while you still have options. Sadly I agree with the others - you've been too nice & offered too many chances. If you take away all the words & only look at his actions, he has blown every opportunity to make things right & help YOU heal from the trauma he's dealt you. I'm so sorry he has not matured through all this & become the kind of husband & partner you deserve. Because you do...you deserve better. Sending you peace & strength & hugs.

[This message edited by putonahappyface at 3:14 PM, June 7th (Saturday)]

Thanks for your comments I really appreciate your advice and support. Since he left today I've got angrier by the minute I just want to shake him get him to see sense. You're right about the addictive thing we realised he's addicted to porn and he's since stopped using it as a condition of R and this has helped us loads emotionally. I've asked him to come home to talk tonight and he refused saying he needs time to think and get clarity he doesn't know what our future holds and he's sorry. I have him an ultimatum to come home and talk to me by 9pm or I'd pack the rest of his things and leave them outside. He said I can put a time limit on him but he won't come home tonight. He's out at the bars with his friend now and I've packed his things as I told him I would. At the end of the day he chose to leave today destroying me so I've finished the job for him. Was that the right thing to do? Where do I go from here? I'm STILL hoping for R!!!

He didn't realise how bad breaking no contact was for me all he knew was it made him get more clarity on our future.

Mandy, I say this gently. How can you possibly believe he 'didn't know' how much it would hurt you for him to keeping contacting this woman? Unless he's learning challenged - and I mean severely - he knows EXACTLY how painful it is for you. He's painting himself to be this poor, innocent hapless chap whose only trying to do 'right' by you and get "clarity for your future." What a CROCK of bull. The truth is that he can't let this woman go and will continue pursuing her and lying to you about it every time you catch him. How the hell many times can he pretend he was clueless about how this would devastate you and gee golly gosh, he was only trying to help your marriage by contacting her - can't you see that?

And that bit about stalking her Facebook page because he's consumed with 'shame and guilt' is the most ridiculous lie I've read yet here on SI (and I've read some doozies).

I'm sorry, but he's got you right where he wants you - all filled with concern and worry about HIM. It's STILL all about HIM, isn't it?

This guy is so freakin self centered that instead of manning up and trying to give YOU the peace of heart and mind you so desperately need after his despicable behavior, he runs off instead like a little coward to lick his wounds and cry about how unfair life is.

And it's working because you're all upset worried about HIM.

Mandy - when is it EVER going to be about you????

He said I can put a time limit on him but he won't come home tonight. He's out at the bars with his friend now and I've packed his things as I told him I would. At the end of the day he chose to leave today destroying me so I've finished the job for him. Was that the right thing to do? Where do I go from here? I'm STILL hoping for R!!!

Well, I see it's STILL all about him. He's so broken up that he'd rather go bar hopping with his buddies than clean up the disgusting mess he made at home.

Was packing his crap and telling him to stay out the right thing? You'd better believe it.

Except, throw it out on the front lawn so he doesn't have to knock on the door and pull another of his crocodile tear 'woe is me' bullshit stories on you.

[This message edited by NeverAgain2013 at 5:31 PM, June 7th (Saturday)]

Thanks neveragain2014 you're saying exactly what I'm thinking but I'm weak I can see the good in him, I can see where his heart lies, I can see a future with him if he could just try. I know he wants to but he is scared, ashamed and feeling guilty and it is eating him up. Even after I've pi***d him off today he's not contacted her at all that I can see (but I may be. Wrong). Is there a way to help them through the fog and see things in the clear light of day? I'm terrified of having to go on without him, I have to try everything to save our marriage I know he's worth it this behaviour is not him it's like he's possessed by a demon:(!

You can't get him out of the fog or save him and I promise you...the only way you'll save this marriage is a hard 180. HARD!!! Don't answer his calls. Ask your children to not mention you or your feelings to him...tell them it's a private thing between you and daddy. Then let the initial blubbering session blow over because it's fake. It was last time and it will be this time. Make yourself clear when you say "I will not share my husband". Then tell him your done giving a f$@k about his poor little feelings. He's not the victim. Keep coddling him and you lose the marriage. Do what I say and it will stand a chance. Not that he deserves it. You really could do better. Oh..and that person you think you know that would "never do something like this"....well he did. The person you thought you knew doesn't exist. This man is your REAL husband. Are you still interested in blaming anything but him (including a demon) for his gross behavior??? You deserve soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much more.

Mandy I am sorry you are going through this. I truly hope you can find the strength to kick him and his bullshit out. You can do this, be strong for your kids, they deserve a mum that expects to be treated better.

I agree with what those above just said. And I want to add that if he truly has a porn/sex addiction, he isn't & won't be the husband you once knew until he gets the therapy he needs & a support system in place. That could be the "demon" you're referring to, & he can't just stop on his own without the proper help - he'll just be white knuckling it until he slips again with either porn or infidelity or both, spirals into a shame cycle, lather, rinse, repeat.

You may want to drop down to I Can Relate & find the Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts thread. Read the first few posts, & go to the links provided. Lots of great info there. Also, Recovery Nation has a lot of helpful info. But bottom line is that HE has to be willing to do all this hard work, not you. You need to detach - you didn't cause him to be this way, & you can't cure him. It's time to focus on you - tap into your strength, get help from family & close friends, & do not accept that this is how your life has to be. It doesn't! Maybe he can get his shit together at some point down the road, but you need to see an attorney & prepare for the possibility that he won't. I'm so sorry.

[This message edited by putonahappyface at 10:18 PM, June 7th (Saturday)]

Mandy,

My dear, please listen to all the great advise here. I can see me in your posts ( read my profile). I think I am older than you because you are talking about young kids. I have been there and done that. My WH has had affairs and I always felt it was a poor WH thing or me and the kids did something to make him mad.

You can't change him. He has the power to change himself, but he probably won't. It's a lot of hard work and it sounds like he is more into thinking about himself and pleasing himself. I too have caught my WH in bed pleasuring himself. It's not that you aren't good enough, it's that he feels entitled to do whatever.

Please try to 180 him and see a lawyer and get an exit plan. Don't make yourself second choice! You are a loving person look after yourself and the kids. Make your home a safe secure place for them again.

Well today has been tough I had to tell my 10 year old daughter what was going on and it crushed her. We've both been talking and crying together she's amazing one thing good that has came from him! I'm holding off telling my 7 year old boy as he's so emotional I can't prepare enough for that time!

WH has text me a few times saying he's still thinking about R but is frightened to comit to me again because he can't trust himself not to hurt me again. He's told my daughter he's not leaving her he will see her all the time. That's what he thinks I'm thinking once a fortnight initially at an inconvenient time for him and supervised just to make life as hard for him as it is for us. My little boy is in his first theatrical dance recital in 2 days and I know WH really wants to see it and son wants him there but I don't think I could go with him and sit beside him when I'm feeling this low, what would you do? I also packed all his things and took them to his parents today who knew nothing about what's been going on. His sister was supportive and came out to meet me but his parents hid inside... Selfish pigs!!

I'm feeling a little stronger now I realise how much my kids need me and that I can't change him. So I've made a vow to do the 180 I don't think he's ever coming back I just need to accept it now. He's even turned off the GPS tracker lol so that hurt me. So here goes day one of 180 starts in the morning! Thank you to all you wonderful people I'm so glad I found you! Mandy

My daughter was in a state honor band concert days after DD. We went separate, but as it turns out, we showed up at the same time, and since we walked in together, and others who knew us were there, we sat together. It made the concert not very much fun and I was so angry at him.

You both should be there for your son if possible. Think about how you would like to handle this, maybe one of you could come in a few minutes late or go to the restroom and that might help so you can split up and sit separately.

[This message edited by Mochagurl at 7:21 PM, June 8th (Sunday)]

hi mandy

im sorry you are still being blindsided by your husband. you need to do the 180 not to get him back but for your own sanity and well being. Go doctors and see about anti depressants to help you through the hard times ahead,see a solicitor to see what your options are should you divorce( you will get an hours free with most family law solicitors). I too am in the UK and was also blindsided by the man i desperately loved,

I too had been married for over 20 years and didnt know i how i would survive without him, ultimately i wassnt given the option of reconciliation as the day i confronted him he left, initially he moved in with his parents but although he denied it he was seeing the OW straight away and they were a couple within 2 weeks and were living toehther wwithin a few months we are now divorced and he has no contact with our children, hiss choice. i am over 3 years out and i did survive and so did my children and you will too.

You cant nice him home begging crying will get you no where he will just know that he can tell you what you want to hear and you will forgive him, as thats what you have alwways done. he needs help with his addictions but only he can get that and it will only be when he wants too.

try and eat even if its only a yoghurt drink plenty of fluids and sleep when you can. you dont want to makee yoursef ill as you have young children who need you as they cant count on daddy right now. you have done the best thing by kicing him out and dont listen to his emotional blackmail when he tries to worm hiss way bac in again you need to stand your ground so that he nows that hiss actions are what needed now not his bullshit.

Thanks neveragain2014 you're saying exactly what I'm thinking but I'm weak I can see the good in him, I can see where his heart lies, I can see a future with him if he could just try. I know he wants to but he is scared, ashamed and feeling guilty and it is eating him up. Even after I've pi***d him off today he's not contacted her at all that I can see (but I may be. Wrong). Is there a way to help them through the fog and see things in the clear light of day? I'm terrified of having to go on without him, I have to try everything to save our marriage I know he's worth it this behaviour is not him it's like he's possessed by a demon:(!

Mandy, I don't know you nor him, but I will bet the farm that, HE IS NOT A GOOD PERSON! HE IS NOT -SCARED-GUILTY-ASHAMED- he IS GOOD at playing YOU though.

You HAVE to STOP! Stop the fantasy of the man you WANT him to be. STOP letting him cross boundaries with no repercussions. STOP being his doormat!!!

Start LOVING and RESPECTING yourself and START putting your children FIRST not HIM.

You sound like a very LOVING person, you deserve SO MUCH MORE and if you can ever SEE that, you will find peace.

Mandy, you're such a sweet lady.

Unfortunately, he knows this and has continually taken advantage of your kind nature to get away with pursuing his OW and keeping in touch with her.

Just because you don't see anything on your cell phone records or on his computer doesn't mean they're not in touch. They're just not using the same avenues of contact they were using before you caught him. If he has an iPhone or Smart Phone, he's probably gotten a talking/chatting/texting app - there are tons of free ones out there. You can talk and chat and text and all of that stuff for free - with NOTHING being detailed on your cell phone bill about it. That's how a lot of cheaters are now communicating without getting caught.

I really hope you continue to see him for what he really is, and not the poor hapless good-hearted guy he WANTS you to think he is. In truth, he's just a shrewd manipulator.

SHUT HIM OUT.

[This message edited by NeverAgain2013 at 10:26 AM, June 9th (Monday)]

You have to be willing to let him go in order to try to save your marriage. Don't you see, this isn't about you doing the work, you saving the marriage, you getting him out of the fog, etc etc etc. It's about him. He has to take the actions.

If he's gone already in his heart, he's gone. Implementing a hard 180 or kicking him out is not going to end your marriage. If it ends, it's because he ended it. The worse thing you can do is hang on by your fingernails as he's walking away.

Stand tall girl and demand respect.

Mandy,

What K9 said. You can not sweet talk him back. He must do it himself. I have been in your shoes. I know and all the others who have posted know. There are patterns with these WS. I know you are scared. But like Ostrich said, your children are going to end up scared and scarred from what is going on in your house now.

I had an attorney tell me after the first affair, once a cheater, always a cheater. And I sat there and told this guy how I knew my husband and if I could win him back, he would never leave or look elsewhere. Well the attorney was right.

Give him a taste of being single and do the 180. More for you than anything or anybody else. You will find your inner strength.