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Hi Annb I understand what you're saying and expected I had it coming. He is not telling her face to face for her benefit it's for ours. We wrote a letter last time together she's refused to believe it was from him, she phoned day and night we answered only once she believed he couldn't talk cause I was with him, he told her clearly it is over I am not interested please don't call again, then we didn't answer any of her calls or her friends, we blocked many numbers to our phones and even the house land line, then Facebook and Apchat started. It was relentless, we stood no chance of R with NC she wouldn't let him be, she played on his sympathies. It worries me that her mental state is starting to show. He has to do it this way to get through to her its over he knows how she will react and try everything to stop him leaving her but he has no desire to be with her, now he knows that and that's why I'm trusting I've made the right decision. I maybe think I should have gone with him like he asked me to but I couldn't my emotions wouldn't allow me to. I'll let you all know how it goes xxx

(((hugs)))

Of course you can try to R. You have to see it out for yourself; everyone has their own path, and sometimes that means putting yourself in the way of getting hurt again. I chose to do that too (and did get hurt, but survived).

Just be careful is all. Keep your boundaries clear and watch watch watch his actions. The words are not so meaningful even though we have an addiction to hearing the nice loving things; unfortunately, they're easy to say and not enough to build on. Verify, then trust. Get total transparency and accept nothing less than real remorse. And hopefully he will do the work and be there for you to rebuild. Just make sure you don't let your hope guide you to ignore your gut--your gut will guide you now if you listen to it.

Mandy, I understand your thinking with regard to the OW, but please be careful. If she acted that way before, she will most likely act that way again and an in person meeting with your WH will not make it any better, most likely will make it worse. If he can, your WH should change his phone number and certainly block her on all social media. It is going to have to be complete and totally NC, no matter how much of a fit she pitches. A letter is much better in that you have evidence that you asked her to stop contacting, in the event you need it to pursue harassment charges. Clearly, she is not mentally stable. Every time there is contact, you are back to square one.

I know that "nice guy" syndrome your WH has--my FWH had it too. I think he didn't start to really understand how disturbed OW was until she stated doing crazy things after he broke it off. So many time he told he "Oh, she would never do that!" right before she did stuff. I don't mean to scare you, I just want you to be prepared. Your WH will most likely be in denial, so it may fall to you to be the enforcer. You sound resolved, so just stay strong!

My heart goes out to you...this is such a hard thing to wrap your head around

He is not telling her face to face for her benefit it's for ours. We wrote a letter last time together she's refused to believe it was from him, she phoned day and night we answered only once she believed he couldn't talk cause I was with him, he told her clearly it is over I am not interested please don't call again, then we didn't answer any of her calls or her friends, we blocked many numbers to our phones and even the house land line, then Facebook and Apchat started. It was relentless, we stood no chance of R with NC she wouldn't let him be, she played on his sympathies. It worries me that her mental state is starting to show. He has to do it this way to get through to her its over he knows how she will react and try everything to stop him leaving her but he has no desire to be with her, now he knows that and that's why I'm trusting I've made the right decision. I maybe think I should have gone with him like he asked me to but I couldn't my emotions wouldn't allow me to. I'll let you all know how it goes xxx

The reason it didn't work last time, when he sent the NC letter, is because your husband didn't keep NC. He continued to see her and talk to her. He didn't do that b/c she was "relentless". He did it because he wanted to.

I say all this with the best of intentions. My point is, a NC letter is the way to go. Then after it is sent, he changes his #.

You must make sure your H understands he is to report to you each and every instance of attempted contact she makes, and that failure to do so means divorce.

I dunno, I am happy he made a decision to be with you, I would just be incredibly leary of trusting him.

I really don't understand this "in person" thing and how that benefits YOU. What could he possibly say or do that would "make it clear to her" in person, that couldn't be done over the phone or via letter?

What boundaries have you set in place in terms of his future transparency so that you can continue, for a long time to come, to verify he is not in contact with her?

Hi it's been a while since I last posted as I've been focusing on R but I'm struggling and need some support again. This will be a long one sorry ahead of it lol! I'm looking for advice from those who have been through this and managed to R or ways of coping with specific issues I describe. Quick update he didn't go to tell her face to face after all he said he knew it wasn't fair on me. Instead he came home and we wrote her an email. However I found out a week later he broke NC and had sex with her again. Of course I found out and we talked about it all, I can see why it happened he uses her like a drug to get a high and I know he really wants to stop. I decided that night which was 5 weeks ago that I would give him his last chance. He phoned her on loud speaker she knew I was listening and told her what he thought of her and how he was using her, he told her there was no future in it, he told her how he hated who he'd become and how he regrets what he's done to me and his family. She was crying and told me it wasn't just a 4 month fling it was 16 months of seeing each other 2-3 times a week. She got mad at him for treating her like shit and told him never to get in touch with her again after this. She emailed him saying when she confirms the pregnancy she'll let his mum know which we predicted... She's not pregnant btw! She then emailed 2 wks later begging to talk I emailed her back politely telling her to f**k off I'm not playing nice any more. She replied with a very sincere and remorseful apology and has not made contact again as far as I know. He smiled and hugged me saying how happy he was I'd brought closure to it for him he felt the pressure had been released and so did I I'd said everything I'd wanted to and it felt great!

Since then we've been on an emotional roller coaster together we've both realised what led to him having the A and he says he wants more than anything to R and save our family. I do believe him and he is being honest and open about everything (maybe to honest sometimes it hurts me). He told me the classic 'I love you but I'm not in love with you' followed by I want to rekindle our love, he told me he doesn't find me attractive anymore which hurt badly! At the end of the day she was 24 & had the figure he prefers... I used to have everything she's got but after illness my appearance has changed I've lost my weight and breasts with all the stress he's put on me. I've lost 29lb since D day! I'm thinking of having a boob job now to please him, hair extensions, etc is it normal to try to change like this to want to look like OW so he'll find you attractive again?

We were having great (hysterical bonding) sex everyday, 2-3 x per day sometimes for the first few weeks but then it slowed and I found him mastrubating to porn twice a day, so I tried joining in as it turned me on and I started to get some understanding of his emotions. It was fun at first but then he said he felt I wasn't being me I was acting false, he didn't know me anymore, he felt like he was using me and that put him off. I was actually really enjoying the new lease of life after being a sexual prude all my life, I felt free and unreserved it was great! We went out one night and he told me not to trust him again as he's craving some thrill he used to use the OW for to escape his stress and he's not getting now and he finds he wants to have sex with every girl he sees and needs me to stop him as he's feeling out of control. His openness really was welcomed but after I drank more I had a major melt down, I was hysterical screaming, shouting, packed my bags told him I'm leaving he can have the kids and explain what he'd done to the family himself. I actually felt suicidal at this point I feel so unloved, desperate for affection he can't give even if I ask and all he could say was sorry and hold me, promising me he'll not leave he's fighting for us. I had a second melt down after drinking again at the weekend, I'd fallen asleep in bed and woke up to him mastrubating beside me whilst chatting on an online live sex site. I asked him if I could entertain him instead lol he said no go back to sleep I tried again and he pushed me away, at this point I snapped big time and threw a glass at him smashing beside the bed, screaming obcenitities and ranting how he doesn't care how I feel anymore etc and I went for a walk, he didn't follow me, I cried I punched walls and looked like a drowned rat but I didn't care, all I could think was escaping. Then it dawned on me "What the hell am I doing, I'm being treat like garbage and just accepting this". I went home as fast as my little legs could carry me and when I found him lying in bed I walked up and said "you have 15 minutes to get out of my house you're not doing this to me anymore" he laughed and said calm down let's talk in the morning! Oh no I did not is the answer to your next question, I literally grabbed everything belonging to him and began throwing it towards the front door telling him to leave. In this hour I ranted and raged at him about how he treats me, how he's made me feel, how low I've sunk and how I can't go on like this anymore. He kept trying to hold me, calm me, he kept saying sorry but I told him I felt so angry I'm scared I'd hurt him if he come to close. I've never felt hysterical rage like it I'm such a quiet, calm and placid gentle woman! Eventually I ran out of energy vomited and climbed into the spare bed. Next morning he'd put everything back in place and said "I'll not leave you I'm here for our family we can make this work together". We still talk a lot but we have developed an uncomfortableness when we are alone.

The stress of R is so much we are hoping that when he's through the fog and withdrawl that his feelings for me will become clear we're battling this together, with sex being such an issue emotionally for us we've agreed to wait a while, stop drinking, stop mastrubating and try to do more fun stuff together but I'm struggling to keep going sex became the only time I felt calm, pain free and feel I can get any comfort from him I feel so depressed!

Well there you have it lots of areas to delve into if you have any advice for me it will be welcomed! Oh and as for NC I'm pretty sure there hasn't been any physically as I track his location now but I can't be sure on phone calls as I have no way of checking but I can tell if he's lying and I don't think heis when I ask him! Thanks for your support in advance I look forward to any hope you can throw my way! Mandy x

[This message edited by Mandy7 at 8:58 AM, April 30th (Wednesday)]

((((Mandy)))

Gently...

Right now he has broken so many boundaries and seen NO consequences. Think about that. It tells him he can keep breaking them and getting second, third, fourth chances. All because you're willing to feel sorry for him and try to understand his little mid life crisis. What's there to understand? He had an A for over a year--he lied about the extent about it--he confesses wanting to sleep with everyone he sees, he keeps chatting online even after you wake up and offer to 'entertain' him instead?!

Have you seen a lawyer? It's time for there to be consequences, and getting information is the first place to start in imposing those. Do cut out the drinking and detach. It's not easy, many of us make mistakes and understandably so, but your WH, as you say, is still in the fog. And you can't nice him out of it.

I had advice on the first page but you didn't acknowledge it. I'll repeat it - I'd said your constant enabling of his disgusting behavior has gotten you exactly where you are now, and will continue to KEEP you where you are. And unfortunately, I was 110% correct.

If you don't respect yourself, you can't expect him to respect you, Mandy. And he doesn't. But deep down, you know that.

Anytime you want to put an end to the insanity, all you have to do is end it.

.

[This message edited by NeverAgain2013 at 10:57 AM, April 30th (Wednesday)]

Im at a loss of what to say.

I just don't understand how women can endure this abuse and mistreatment, all in the name of "love"

Its clear you have no intention of ever leaving him.

You will drive yourself crazy year after year hoping and pushing for change, only to be let down again and again and again.

Whats so sad, is that you cant even remove yourself from him for the sake of your own children? Now they have to grow up in a toxic, abusive household with a sick sexual addict.

I really don't know what to say, other than I hope you find srength somehow some day.

Good luck to you.

OMG..I just now read your thread...Are you sure your WH wasn't already having his A by the time he was he was acting like he was depressed? ...

My WH went into the same mode/behavior after the death of his father..When I look back I suspect he may have been having A during that time frame but my second D day (with proof) didn't happen until 10 years later..

I am in a pickle of a situation because I am retired and living on a fixed income..My WH is un remorseful..From the point in time when I found out that R for us was impossible, I divorced my WH mentally...I do not treat my WH as my husband or anybody special in my life..We are just sharing the same house until I can move out or force him out..It will be complicated to get out of my situation legally without becoming destitute financially, but I will try my best..

I would advise you to go into stealth mode as you get your ducks in a row for an exit plan..You state that you guys are okay financially..Make sure this is true...See a lawyer and have L check your WH's credit history for presence of CC / spending/ hiding money from you..

Lock your road to financial/personal independence in place legally NOW...As of yesterday..You may have to see a lawyer to do this..This will afford you peace of mind whether you decide to continue R or that you must leave..

The fact that you see a lawyer, follow thru and demand what is rightfully yours ( divorce or valid post nup) will show your WH that you are serious about protecting yourself from his shitty choices..

No threatening, just make post nup a condition of R..Some states don't have post nups, so the couple in question must divorce to get the same financial/custody protections.....

Your WH does not deserve a second chance based on his words alone...

[This message edited by doggiediva at 11:54 AM, April 30th (Wednesday)]

Mandy7, he needs a reality check. You have allowed him back and it’s time to say enough or this will go on and on. How much are you prepared to take? This is NOT reconciliation. You have had some good advice here – please take it on board. As you can see from my joining date, I have been here and seen it all. I can tell you now this guy needs some serious help and I’m sorry, but you are not the one to help him right now. He is crashing and he will take you with him. You cannot “nice” him back into anything. He is manipulating and abusing you. Please see it for what it is.

Please read up on the 180 in the healing library:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11

Also read any other articles there that relate to your situation. While you are reading, have a look at Great Posts for Newbies in Just Found Out:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=361740&AP=1&HL=

Please book an appt with a lawyer asap. The citizens advice bureau will have a list of lawyers that will give you and hour for free. WHEN (not if) you go to the CAB and to a lawyer, take all financial details with you so that you can discuss things properly.

Get him out of the house. Send him off to his sister. Let him find out what it means to be sad and divorced. Tell him there is to be no discussion about anything until he has started seeing a therapist qualified in his type of behaviour – and one probably qualified in sexual addiction. You may consider going with him to couple counselling, but not until he has had a few sessions with his individual therapist first. And then you may reconsider reconciliation with proper boundaries and decent behaviour. Seeing a lawyer does NOT mean divorce, but it does mean you are one step ahead of the game and you know exactly how the land lies.

Honey, protect yourself and the children. Set up your own bank account if you don’t already have one and get as much cash in there as possible. Please, please do all of this as fast as you can. This week. Or he will take you down with him. Think of the children, you cannot allow him to do this.

Keep posting. We will help you through this. Gotta go. I’ll catch up later.

Exactly..

Teamwork is what keeps the marriage going in a positive direction.. It doesn't matter if physical attributes/personalities were the original attraction that brought the couple together, because those two qualities change over time..

What gives one partner the right to disrespect the other?

This is a question that needs to be addressed by both of you before a GOOD R is possible..

Plain and simple...there is NO marriage to save. This asshole gets off on hurting your feelings. This cycle you're in is called Emotional abuse. Look it up. Read up on the cycles of abuse...it will seem very familiar.

Also, stop cussing. Stop throwing things. Stop reacting emotionally. You are feeding the beast. Stop asking him how he feels about you. Abusive when get pleasure from causing you pain...then rescuing you from it. Read "Why Men Love Bitches". It's a lighthearted read but it will contrast the way you are being treated and the way you SHOULD be!

He was acting differently like he couldn't look me in the eye it was gut wrenching!

Well I was going to post that this screams to me "I just left the OW's bed" and your last post of your heart to heart conversation just proved it.

Mandy I know you WANT TO believe him and keep your marriage but listen to people here who have walked in your shoes, they really SEE what is going on and honey, he is so playing you.

I am so sorry

Is it worth it to you to have a "husband" in the home? In name only?

Women have been accepting marriages like this for eons. I could not do it. Can you?

That's the best this man is going to offer you. Lots of lies, sex with other women etc. it is your choice - no one else's but you are teaching your daughter that this is normal.

Don't try to kid yourself that this man has one gram of respect for you.

Help!!! I've just checked his itemised phone bill he's been calling OW multiple times everyday since last D day even though he's sworn on his kids lives that he's had NC I'm hysterical I really really thought he'd wanted our family to work!

I can't believe this is happening I love him so much my heart is saying give him another chance but my head knows that's the wrong thing to do! I can't bare the thought of him going to her when I kick him out. I just want to die I can't see life without him! Should I run away for a few days and shock him leave him to cope, or what???

If you guys could do your ending again how would you do it, what would you say, would you just throw all his stuff outside and change the locks, would you tell him he won't see his kids again??? Please help me I have 20 hours to work all this out!

My heart is broken, I'm broken :(

Yes you put all his stuff outside in bags, change the locsk and meet with an attorney today.

There is no way to "coerce" him into being what you want. You cant scare him, or nice him, or manipulate him, or threaten him into stopping his cheating.

All you can do is leave/kick him out, and file for separation/divorce.

Mandy. Take copies of the bill and any other bills you can lay your hands on. If he’s got online billing, print them off.

Take a deep breath. Now take another one. If you’ve been crying, go and wash your face with cold water. Breathe. Get your head together and STOP panicking.

A list of Very Important Stuff to do TOMORROW.

Phone and make an appt with a solicitor.

Ring and make an appt with the CAB.

Ring and make an appt to open your own bank account if you don’t already have one.

Find all the financial stuff and get it into a folder. Examine and write down your income and outgoings, including childcare.

Make an appt with your GP if you feel you need either AD's or something to help you through this critical time.

Ring his sister and tell her he is coming over for a while.

Pack a large bag and leave it by the front door.

Write a list of your demands. If he cannot adhere to them, then you are done.

Sweetheart, this is him cake eating and he is going to make your life worse, not better. You HAVE to put your boundaries down in steel and concrete and do NOT falter.

I can assure you that once you have spoken to a solicitor, you will not feel so bad. Truly. It will give you some CONTROL because right now you have given all the control over your life and the lives of your children to him. Stop. Stop it now.

I am sitting opposite you, holding your hands, wiping your tears and begging you to do the right thing. Find that strength inside. It IS there. You CAN do this. Stand up to him once (without any hysteria) and you will be amazed at how good you feel.

And remember this acronym to help you detach.

Don’t

Even

Try

And

Change

Him

Because you can’t. Don’t beg – it’s demeaning. Your heart is broken now, but girl, you need to put your bitch boots on and lace them up tight. Read, read, read. It’s all here. We oldies have seen this scenario so many times. There is only one thing that works. The 180. And get ready for divorce. Show him you mean business. He can either walk with you or you will leave him behind – because he just isn’t worth your time or tears.

He needs help. He WILL take you down too. Please, we know what we are talking about.

Keep posting. It all helps.

UKg XXX

[This message edited by UKgirl at 11:57 AM, May 1st (Thursday)]

Okay, I’ve put a few things together to help you start.

Your demands should include:

* He leaves the family home immediately. Where he stays isn’t your problem.

* He goes NC with OW and sends a letter/text telling her it is OVER and he wants nothing more to do with her.

* He goes and sees his GP and gets the name of a therapist preferably one specialising in sex addiction and mid-life crises.

* He stops all porn, cyber sexing, sexting and goes cold turkey. (I wonder if the thrill and objectifying/control of women is at the core of his problems.)

* He stops lying and gives you passwords and access to everything – his phone, emails, websites, the lot.

* He deactivates all social networking accounts for the time being (too much temptation)

* He stops abusing you and starts treating you and the marriage with respect.

* He agrees (at the time YOU deem appropriate) to go to couple counselling.

You make no promises. You’ll take it one day, one week, one month at a time and see how it goes.

If he can’t do any of these things – you have your answer sooner rather than later. You don’t want to be dealing with this in several years time.

Look at yourself in the mirror and tell yourself you are worth more than this. Be your own best friend. You can’t help him, but you CAN help yourself. You can’t control him, but you CAN control your response to him. Hugs to you.

How are you doing Mandy?

Check in and just let us know you are okay.

xx