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He's told me he just can't think straight he needs to find out why he feels so low so he's decided to stay at his sisters for a few days. He said he won't be going to the OW as he knows that she is just another problem adding to his turmoil. I've told him he needs to speak to a doctor as he's very depressed. He accepted what I was saying whether he goes or not we will wait and see! In the mean time he's determined nothing should change at home for the kids and he will continue looking after us financially and he will see the kids every day. What's your opinion on letting him have open access to the home and children in this current state is it right to allow him to come and go as he pleases? When he left tonight he held me tight and said "I love you" should I take comfort from this...

It just infuriates me to see a man pulling this move. He is basically manipulating you to set himself up in a fench-sitting, cake-eating situation. NO MAN leaves the marital home when he wants to reconcile, or improve himself, or figure out what to do. He is leaving the home, staying at his sisters, so he can be free to see the OW. Make no mistake about this.

And on top of it, he has the GALL to still want to keep youin limbo, come and go at the home as he pleases, see his children daily, and string you along as well.

Um...no.

This man's histrionics and self-centered enough are really something else. In all of these, he goes on and on about his depression, his confusion, his pain, his unhappiness...WHAT ABOUT YOU? Not to mention YOUR CHILDREN?

How utterly selfish.

I really hope you do not allow this man to come and go, to tell you he loves you, to string you along while he is free to be screw the OW (and the feed you ILYs, and probably have sex with you too)

1. See a lawyer for a consult

2. Out him to your family and even friends. Tell them what is happening

3. Tell him as far as your concerned he is not allowed in the home and you do not wish to see him or communicate with him regarding anything other than the children

4. He may see the children at his sister's house only, or out in public doing activities with them, without the OW.

5. Cut him off emotionally - do not give him support, understanding, ask him how he's feeling. Don't be mean, just don't engage on an emotional level.

So sorry you are going through this, but so glad you have all the wonderful advise from this board to tell you how it really is with your H. Its like there's a manual - and what he's doing is TEXTBOOK CAKE EATING.

Dammit. I'm sorry to hear that, Mandy. I can tell you that he went straight to the OW, and is with her, and is using you as backup. Seen it toooo many times. I promise you that's what's happening here.

NO. If he wants to see the kids, he can come get them (NOT come in the house) and take them somewhere. And on a regular schedule, too, not just whenever he feels like it. Oh, that's not very easy for him? Too bad, mister. It's called parenting.

Talk to him as little as possible--kids and finances only. By email only as much as possible.

And go see a lawyer.

[This message edited by I think I can at 4:24 PM, March 3rd (Monday)]

His fetal position crying hysterics remind me of a toddler. He's not remorseful for hurting you - he's just upset his fun secret is blown, and he cant continue on with the beautiful family and home life, with the young side chic stroking him on the side.

Well boo effin hoo for him.

I call complete BS on his "crying allnight". Wtf, Im sure YOU have been crying and in much more pain than him. How dare he try to play the victim.

The worst thing you can do is keep open arms for him. He will.have no motivation to end the Affair and truly reconcile untilhe is faced with a true consequence - divotce.

Tell him you dont feel sorry for him, that YOI are the one that has been hurt, and that you are not willing to wait while he "figures stuff out". That you will be taking steps to protect yourself emotionally and financially, including.cutting of emotional support and friendship and consulting with an attorney.

Please keep readimg here, and you will see just how cliche his words, excuses and actions are.

Respect yourself hon, and stay strong

You say the OW has a toddler. Are you sure about the time frame of this affair? He's been odd for the past year - could it have started way before you know? I'm actually worried if he is the father of this toddler.

sorry, normally "I need time to myself" really means I'm not ready to give up my mistress but I want to keep my family too.

Your best plan would be to get all of your ducks in a row. Get a lawyer and get legal advice - you don't have to get a divorce... Its just better to know what you options are.

Don't make this easy on him. Show him what its really like not having you around. Do the 180 only talk about kids and finance.

He needs to take the kids out for visits. He shouldn't get to "play" family. Visits should be scheduled --

He also says hes never felt so bad and cried as much as he did last night.

Do you see this Mandy? That it is all about him and his pain?

Look, I know sometimes we sound like great giant 2X4's and things you don't want to hear - like we're a group of cynical sufferers...misery loving company. But it's just not so.

We're a community who have helped each other. Out of this. We are survivors - we have been there.

This is not remorse Mandy. I'm so sorry to tell you this.

This is him trying to manage the damage.

Ameliorate the consequences on the anvil of your beaten heart.

When I see two or more posters on a thread in jfo telling you to see an attorney...we know the thrust, the idea of SI...we love successful R...and that may still be a possibility!

Please. Just go see an attorney. Get your options.

For now, I believe that's your best play.

Mandy, you know we care.

I recently am going thru this myself. I believed that he cut all ties with OW and sure enough 3 months later found all kinds of texts proving he hadnt. I still gave him the benefit of the doubt when he said it was just her not getting it thru her head that he ended things. Now I sit here 10 months later and he has walked out on me after all I did to hold us together. Said he needed time to find himself as he hated who he had become. Now he is asking for a divorce but has yet to file bcus I wouldnt give him the time and space he asked for. I guess you have to ask yourself if the wait will be worth it or all for nothing as in my case. Sometimes I feel if I kicked him out when I found out I may be healed by now and not in so much pain. Yet I still love him and I really should hate him for cheating, lying and now leaving. My heart goes out to you.

Ok everyone I've read lots of messages from you all and took heed of your advice through experience. Last night I sent him a clear message with the ultimatum lined out. I told him he was being selfish, inconsiderate, stupid, blind and a coward I laid it on thick no holds barred! The ultimatum was- He either chooses us his family who will support him while he gets counselling and sees his doctor with the understanding I take no crap and he will not have any contact with OW and he has to give everything to our R 100% and makes it up to us for the rest of his life. Or he chooses to leave for good and will not be free to come and go as he pleases anymore and he will have a strict schedule of when he can see his kids or phone/text the kids. He will not ever be allowed to introduce our kids to another woman and if he ever lets them down he will have to go to court to get visitation rights in future. I told him he continues to pay all of the bills and keeps us in our home. I have given him until tomorrow to decide. He called me this morning saying he'd hoped to have until Friday to work out what he's going through but understands what damage he's causing. He says it's not about the kids, it's not about the OW it's about me and him and can we be happy? He said he's going to talk with his family about it today and look at getting help with his depression(at least he's recognised he has a problem). He is coming over to get the kids from school to cook pancakes for tea. Let's see what his response will be in the morning what will he decide I'm so scared he will not come back I never imagined being a single parent we don't have any in our family I will feel so embarrassed and ashamed if it comes to that. As for the question posted earlier about OW's toddler, the child is defiantly not his as the OW is white and the child is mixed race and my husband is white. FYI I am in the UK. Thanks everyone for your support you've all been such a comfort and helped me see where I was going wrong and how I should manage the situation better. You have given me strength and courage in my darkest days. If only I could eat something I'd have more energy to fight! Mandy x

How did the conversation go? Did he ask for more time again?

You are very strong and can get through this.

Hi everyone, well he came over and made pancakes with the children, did some housework, fixed daughters bike and took her shopping before taking my son to football club. He was acting differently like he couldn't look me in the eye it was gut wrenching! I think that was enough to confirm what he is planning on telling me tomorrow (Wednesday) morning. Now I need to prepare myself for the worst day of my life! Should I get angry, should I stay calm how and what is the best way to respond to your husband telling you he's leaving for good to set footings for the future????

Be calm no matter what happens. You need to detach and stay strong in knowing you were faithful to your own boundaries.

((((Mandy))))

You will be okay.

Thank you norabird I'm going crazy here knowing my life is about to be destroyed. My daughter is sitting with me asking when daddy's coming home it's breaking my heart, she just said he told her when he's feeling better he will be home. I hope he's not filling her with empty promises. It's mad but I'm still holding onto a glimmer of hope that he might not let me down tomorrow and still want to save our marriage, it's so soul destroying! :(

It is gutwrenchingly painful. Do you have reallife support? Friends, family who could come stay with you?

If he does say that he's not coming home, or he needs some more time, or whatever, please don't let him continue to come over like this is his house.

((Mandy))

Look at this dear Mandy -

He says it's not about the kids, it's not about the OW it's about me and him and can we be happy?

This is clearly an attempt at hoovering, sucking you back in. Pushing the buttons (he installed btw!) to get you to cave.

I feel like a guy in a long black cape with a scythe when I say these thing sometimes, but Mandy...see the bee esss in this.

His own unhappiness,

his own twisted coping skills,

caused this.

The answer to; "Can we be happy?" is a big flat-plastered smile on your face, saying; "Yes, I can be happy!...

...whether or not you can is debatable."

In some cases, I prefer numb silence, not answering the question - not rising to the bait.

Pretending stupidity, blankness...un-awareness, oh look a squirrel! kinds of things...(again, I'm not there in your shoes) - you may want to fake it till you make it...

Now this - this is a great question! - and it breaks our hearts you even have to ask it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Should I get angry, should I stay calm how and what is the best way to respond to your husband telling you he's leaving for good to set footings for the future????

With this one, I'd guess that showing indifference with a "meh" shrug will cause the most consternation. (Isn't that about as counter-intuitive as you can get? Remember fake it till ...)

He's histrionic and all...wants a show...don't give him one...pinch the shit out of your anus if you have to, but show him nothing. A blank, indifferent face is your play.

Now listen. YES you should get angry. Put it on here. If you show him nothing, you have the chance to take from him everything that YOU want, because, in the end, this is all about you.

What's your opinion on letting him have open access to the home and children in this current state is it right to allow him to come and go as he pleases?

Nope. Don't do it.

First, it confuses kids, and is NOT in their best interest, to have a parent come and then leave.

Secondly, if he is evaluating whether he is willing to stay in the marriage, he needs to see what life looks like when he's NOT in the marriage.

Tell him he can have the kids on alternate weekends and every other Wednesday night for dinner. Expect him to TAKE the kids every other weekend. How he manages this is ALL ON HIM--like it will be if you divorce. (And yes, I realize this likely means his mother will likely end up doing much of the care. Let her. Let her see what she's enabling. Let him see how life will be if divorced.)

As for how you should feel, feel the way you DO feel. No need to fake things.

Listen, we all can tell you the best thing is to be strong and detached. But the fact of the matter is that, no matter HOW you respond, it won't likely change outcome all that much. He will either drop the histrionics and poor-me bullshit, feel REAL remorse, and step up to the plate of R, or he won't. Your actions and reactions probably won't impact this all that much. What your actions and reactions will do is affect how you feel about yourself. For me, that was the hardest. (I fell apart, and I really struggled with anger at myself for this. I healed far better once I achieved a level of detachment.)

[This message edited by solus sto at 7:40 PM, March 4th (Tuesday)]

Adjustment - if you can't reach your anus, your buttox will do...

What jjct said.

Mandy, more than likely, you are going to get an answer that you do not want to hear. What I can assure you of, is that his answer will be all about him.

This is specifically what the 180 is for---to help you detach. When you are able to finally put a little emotional distance between you two, everything will be cast in a different light. You will see how ridiculously self-centered he is behaving, and will be far less sympathetic to him---which is exactly how it should be.

Even if you get denied your ultimatum, it doesn't guarantee the end. But what it will show, is exactly how screwed up your husband's thinking is, and how you can't attempt reconciliation with that. And as you detach further and further, he may experience his "aha" moment, and get his head out of his ass.

But don't wait for that. Leaving infidelity is like a train pulling out of the station, and you are definitely boarding, because you want out. You are giving your husband the chance to get on board, and work on salvaging the shattered marriage. But if he waits too long, that train will be gone---with you already on it. You will be exiting the misery behind you.

Remember---you don't control him. But you control yourself.

Hi everyone who is supporting me through this difficult time in my marriage! I have an update for you which I hope won't receive too much negativity.

I used a lot of your advice even though I thought at the time how can I do that how can I cut my nose off to spite my face but I did as I was at the end and nothing could get any worse but it worked. Giving me the space to detach from the shock and emotion of the hurt and see things in a different light, essentially grow myself a backbone and stop being kicked to the gutter by his selfishness has made me stronger.

I prepared myself mentally and physically for the end of my world as I knew it over the last few days. I told him straight what I thought, I didn't threat, I didn't emotionally blackmail and didn't weep and beg or plead for him to reconsider. I looked after myself and my kids and kept my dignity even though it was so hard crying behind closed doors and being alone with no support from friends or family only you wonderful people.

I pointed out a few well informed facts to him, I reevaluated what was important to me and told him straight what I thought the issues we have are and my understanding of the whole sorry A. He had his clear ultimatum given to him black and white so he knew the 2 outcomes he had to chose from. He went away for the few days to think and he actually did manage to see a different perspective. Like the man I met 20 years ago that I trusted and put my faith in he managed to rationalise his thoughts and feelings and put things into perspective.

So he came this morning at 9.30am i sat there hard faced, blank and clenching my arse cheeks together lol! I DIDN'T CRY!!!!! We talked a lot and I mean a huge amount so here is a snippet of it. He DID go to see the OW on a couple of occasions while he was thinking he told me and as there was no alcohol influencing his judgement during these times he talked with her. As I had put him in full control of his destiny and stopped making excuses and allowing his actions to carry on with no consequence it made him take responsibility. He said the OW sensed he had changed over the last few weeks and he admitted it didn't feel right being with her. She wept, she pleaded, she begged, she threatened, she bitched about me & my kids and she promised him the world would be wonderful if he stayed with her. But he said seeing her like that wasn't nice he felt suffocated he wanted to run away as fast as he could. He said the spark that he got the thrill from had vanished and he felt nothing suddenly like a switch had been flicked in his head. He said as they walked in the park with her child yesterday it felt so wrong, he felt empty and disgusted with himself and he just wanted to blink and see me and our kids there and for it all to have been a bad dream.

He said it to me with such genuine remorse, he cried at times he didn't hold anything back and he explained that he needed those couple of times with her to make him see what his future is meant to be. She tried to have sex with him but he couldn't his thoughts were with me and that's when her emotions took over. I truly believe he has seen the light from his words and sincerity and do think his time with her has closed that chapter in our lives. My husband does have a good heart, he does care about other peoples feelings and never wants to upset people even though it leaves him upset, he can't stand not being liked by anyone. This is the part I'm going to get grief over I know... We discussed in depth, after much more talking, R and if it were to happen NC with OW. Together we know that the best way to handle the OW is for him to tell her face to face it is over forever as writing a letter didn't work last time. He had told her after the walk in the park it was over and he couldn't believe he didn't get upset doing it, but she begged him to wait until today after he'd seen me and see what I had to say before ending it. So we talked about trust and remorse and how this is affecting me and the kids, I seen a weak pitiful man so sorry for his actions I seen his genuine distress at what he's put us through. So I made the decision to send him to end it with her face to face. He pointed out everything that would happen, everything she would try and promised me what he plans to do. He feels strong enough to manage it and asked me if I wanted to go with him, but I couldn't I can't handle seeing that. I genuinely feel he is ready to end it in this way and telling him he can't I know will make him resent me . He needs to bring closure to it all in his way and that is where he is now.

We've discussed lots of issues in our lives what we both think contributed to this affair happening and he recognises that I wasn't to blame and assures me it was not my fault, it was all him and he will make it up to me everyday. I have learnt I need to change for me, I'm just a mummy and house keeper, yes I foster little girls who have been through hell and that gives us both a sense of satisfaction that we are contributing to the world, but I actually have nothing else, no friends, no hobbies, no interests and no other contact with adults apart from him. I need to be Mandy again and I need to gain something for me build my self esteem it is none existent. I have lived for everyone else's needs never putting mine first. This is going to change has anyone got any tips?

We know it is going to be a long hard road that we have to travel to save our marriage but we both want it 100% and are prepared to listen, talk, be honest and respect each other's feelings along the way. If only there was a quick fix solution if only there was a guide book on how to do it right life would be so simple. We got the R all wrong last time with HB and 24/7 together and him not being able to detach from her contact (the devil on his shoulder) but we are planning on taking things very slowly each day as it comes so it does feel forced or unnatural.

I hope and pray that we get it right this is our last chance and he knows that and we know it won't happen quickly! If you can find it in your hearts please wish me luck and give me any constructive advice on how to have a successful R from your experiences.

Love and sincere thanks to you all for your support, you have all been so very kind to me! Mandy xxx

Mandy, I am glad that you and your WH had an opportunity to talk, but....Gentle 2 x 4....your WH is STILL more concerned about her feelings than yours. Closure? A phone call in front of you is all that is necessary. Actually, there is nothing that is actually necessary. He could have given her crickets.

You just gave him permission to see OW again. How do you "know" it will end THIS time?

Right now your WH is not trustworthy, OW will do everything in her power to draw him back in. And maybe she won't today, but instead of being firm and ending it on an, THE END note, he is once again affirming how much he doesn't want to "hurt" her by doing things "properly. In other words, I still care enough about you to do right by you, but I'm trying to R with my wife.

Sorry if I sound harsh, your WH is being cruel and insensitive and placing her, once again, over his family.

[This message edited by annb at 7:02 AM, March 5th (Wednesday)]

Best of luck, Mandy,and I hope he keeps NC. If he starts getting angry, defensive, or whiny like a victim, he is probably NOT NC. Keep your antennae up.